The next item on our agenda, then, is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government on EU funding. I call on Mark Drakeford to introduce the statement.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you for this opportunity to provide Members with an update on the European structural fund programmes. The implications for Wales of leaving the European Union have been regularly rehearsed in this Chamber since 23 June. Today, I will focus instead on the progress made in deploying funds already secured, particularly in the 2014-2020 round, where Wales’s programmes were the first to be approved in the UK, and amongst the first in Europe. Consistent progress has been made since the programmes were launched in December 2014, investing EU funds in schemes across the country. Those schemes are clearly linked to regional needs and growth opportunities, and they demonstrate the potential to generate significant economic, social and environmental benefits across Wales.

EU funds, from which our businesses, communities and people have benefited significantly for more than a decade, have helped to shape the development of Wales’s economic fortunes and to lay the foundations for more sustainable economic prosperity.

Felly y mae, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ers y flwyddyn 2000, ac er gwaethaf y cyfnod economaidd anodd yn ddiweddar, mae cyllid yr Undeb Ewropeaidd wedi cyfrannu at gynnydd nodedig mewn cyfraddau cyflogaeth, a gwelwyd y gwelliannau mwyaf yn rhanbarthau’r gorllewin a’r Cymoedd, i fyny o 64.6 y cant yn y flwyddyn 2000 i 70.7 y cant ym mis Mehefin eleni. Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, cynyddodd y ganran yn y dwyrain o 71.7 y cant i 72.4 y cant. Gostyngodd lefelau anweithgarwch economaidd yn y gorllewin a'r Cymoedd yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw o 30.8 y cant i 25.2 y cant. Ers 2004, mae lefelau sgiliau ledled Cymru wedi gwella, wrth i gyfran yr oedolion o oedran gweithio heb unrhyw gymwysterau ostwng o 17 y cant i 9.5 y cant. Ar yr un pryd, mae’r buddsoddiad mewn ymchwil ac arloesedd wedi mwy na dyblu ac mae'r bwlch rhwng gwerth ychwanegol gros y gorllewin a'r Cymoedd a chyfartaledd y DU wedi lleihau.

Ers y flwyddyn 2007, mae prosiectau cronfeydd strwythurol yr UE ar eu pennau eu hunain wedi helpu bron i 73,000 o bobl i gael gwaith, wedi helpu dros 234,000 o bobl i ennill cymwysterau, wedi cefnogi bron i 12,000 o fusnesau newydd i ddechau, ac wedi helpu i greu rhyw 37,000 o swyddi. Mae'r cyflawniadau hyn, Ddirprwy Lywydd, yn dangos yn glir yr effaith gadarnhaol y mae arian yr UE eisoes wedi ei chael ar gymunedau, pobl a busnesau ledled Cymru.

Yr wythnos diwethaf, croesawodd y Prif Weinidog ymrwymiad pellach Llywodraeth y DU i sicrhau cyllid ar gyfer pob un o gynlluniau’r cronfeydd strwythurol Ewropeaidd a’r cronfeydd buddsoddi a gymeradwywyd cyn i'r DU adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Mae'r gwarantu hwn ynddo’i hun yn cydnabod pa mor bwysig yw arian yr UE i Gymru er mwyn mynd i'r afael gwahaniaethau economaidd a chymdeithasol. Mae’n parhau i fod yn wir, fodd bynnag, bod ein gallu i gyflawni rhaglenni 2014-20 yn llawn fel y bwriadwyd yn wreiddiol, ac yn unol â'n cytundebau â'r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, yn dal i fod yn ddibynnol iawn ar amserlen Llywodraeth y DU ar gyfer gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Hyd yn hyn, rydym eisoes wedi buddsoddi £830 miliwn o gronfeydd strwythurol yn y rhaglenni—sef tua 43 y cant o gyfanswm y dyraniad ar gyfer y cyfnod 2014-2020—ac mae hynny'n ein rhoi ni ar y blaen o’i gymharu â pherfformiad rhanbarthau eraill y DU.

Ein blaenoriaeth yw parhau i wneud penderfyniadau ariannu cyn gynted ag y gallwn, er mwyn manteisio i’r eithaf ar ein dyraniad cyllid a sicrhau bod gweithgareddau yn dechrau cyn gynted ag sy’n bosibl, a byddaf yn gwneud y neges hon yn glir ac yn trafod y ffordd hon o wneud busnes â rhanddeiliaid a phartneriaid cyflawni yn y digwyddiad blynyddol i rannu gwybodaeth am gronfa’r UE, a fydd yn cael ei gynnal yng Nghaerdydd yr wythnos nesaf.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwyf am ei gwneud yn glir bod hon yn ymdrech gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn ei chyfanrwydd a fydd yn cynnwys yr holl Weinidogion ac Ysgrifenyddion y Cabinet. Bythefnos yn ôl, roeddwn i’n gallu cyhoeddi £4.7 miliwn ar gyfer y prosiect OPUS sy’n gweithio gyda phobl ifanc, ac £11.9 miliwn i ddatblygu’r prosiect SEACAMS hynod lwyddiannus, a bydd y ddau yn cael eu cynnal yn y gogledd. Heddiw, bu’n bleser gennyf gyhoeddi £850,000 ychwanegol o gyllid yr Undeb Ewropeaidd i Brifysgol Abertawe i gefnogi rhagor o raddau Meistr ymchwil a doethuriaethau mewn peirianneg i fyfyrwyr a fydd yn gweithio ochr yn ochr â chwmnïau, gan gynnwys Tata Steel. Yr wythnos diwethaf, roedd fy nghyd-Aelod, Jane Hutt yn Cross Hands yn Sir Gaerfyrddin yn cyhoeddi £2.3 miliwn o gyllid yr UE ar gyfer y rhaglen twf busnesau cymdeithasol, gwerth £4 miliwn, gan gynnig cymorth ariannol o hyd at £150,000 i fusnesau cymdeithasol ledled Cymru. Bydd rhagor o gyhoeddiadau cyllido gan Weinidogion eraill yn y dyddiau, wythnosau, a misoedd sydd i ddod.

Drwy’r ymdrechion cyfunol hyn ac ymrwymiad aruthrol ein partneriaid, rydym yn gobeithio rhoi cytundebau ar waith sy'n cwmpasu tua 60 y cant o'n holl gyllid erbyn i Lywodraeth y DU wneud ei datganiad yr hydref ym mis Tachwedd. Byddwn yn gwneud hyn, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ar sail cadarnhad gan Drysorlys y DU, yn unol â’r setliad datganoli, mai mater i Lywodraeth Cymru fydd parhau i bennu sut i wario cyllid yr UE yng Nghymru, a byddwn yn gwneud hyn yn unol ag amcanion a thargedau a gynlluniwyd yn ein rhaglen.

Datblygwyd y rhaglenni hyn, ac maent yn cael eu gweithredu a'u monitro, mewn partneriaeth rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a sefydliadau ar draws y sector preifat, y trydydd sector a'r sector cyhoeddus. Bu'r dull partneriaeth hwn yn hanfodol i lwyddiant ein rhaglenni a bydd yn parhau i fod yn nodwedd gref o sut yr ydym yn gwneud busnes yma yng Nghymru. Bydd y pwyllgor monitro rhaglenni ar gyfer y cronfeydd strwythurol a’r cronfeydd buddsoddi yn arbennig, yn parhau i chwarae rhan bwysig wrth i ni sicrhau bod cronfeydd yr UE yn cael yr effaith fwyaf. Bydd y Pwyllgor Monitro Rhaglenni hefyd yn helpu i lywio strategaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer sicrhau’r canlyniadau gorau posibl i Gymru wrth i ni baratoi ar gyfer gadael yr UE. Rwyf wedi bod, felly, yn arbennig o falch o weld bod Julie Morgan wedi'i phenodi gan y Prif Weinidog yn gadeirydd newydd ar y Pwyllgor Monitro Rhaglenni ac y bydd yn cadeirio ei chyfarfod cyntaf yn ddiweddarach eleni. Dymunaf bob llwyddiant i Julie yn y swydd newydd bwysig iawn hon ac edrychaf ymlaen at weithio'n agos â hi.

I gloi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae gan Gymru hanes cryf o ran cyllid Ewropeaidd a chyflawni rhaglenni rhanbarthol drwy bartneriaethau ymrwymedig ac effeithiol. Ein blaenoriaeth yn awr yw adeiladu ar y cyflawniadau hynny yn fwy fyth i sicrhau bod buddsoddiadau yr UE yn parhau i gael effaith gadarnhaol ar fywydau ein cyd-ddinasyddion, i wneud hynny i'r graddau mwyaf posibl, ac am y cyfnod cyfan y mae’r cyllid ar gael. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I obviously welcome the Cabinet Secretary’s statement, but I have to take issue with him that the course of this period from 2000 to 2014 has been somehow an unalloyed economic success for those of us who live in west Wales and the Valleys. He was very selective in the figures that he quoted. Because we’re talking about a European programme, if we look at where west Wales and the Valleys are in relation to the whole of the European Union, they’ve gone down in terms of GVA per capita: 73 per cent of the EU 27 income per capita in 2000, 69 per cent for 2014, the latest year for which statistics are available. We compare that with Poland, 47 per cent at the beginning of this period, now up to 68 per cent; Saxony, 79 per cent rising to 94 per cent—other areas that have benefitted and used the European structural funds, I have to say, far more strategically and successfully than this Government over the course of this period.

I’ve a number of particular questions to him. Obviously, we’re living in a time of economic turbulence. What effect does the volatility of the exchange rate have on the amount of allocation available? I note in the rural development plan that the planning exchange rate has been revised, but it seems to have been revised the wrong way in terms of the exchange rate movement. The co-financing rate as well in the rural development plan has been revised downwards—the local Welsh UK contribution—from 57 per cent to 47 per cent. I note that First Ministers have lost their heads in this Chamber before as a result of additionality questions, so I’d like him to say if that co-financing rate change also applies more widely to the structural funds.

On WEFO, surely the important thing now is to get the money committed and programmes all set up, because the real danger—the gravest danger of all—is that we lose funds and funds are de-committed because we do not change the decision-making pace, which is still, unfortunately, grinding very slow, as far as I can see, in WEFO.

Finally, on the programme monitoring committee, is it true that the programme monitoring committee is now going to meet less often? I heard ‘longer meetings’, but surely, shorter meetings more often would actually meet the challenge of the times that we’re facing over the course of the next two and a half years as we’re leaving the European Union. While I admire Julie Morgan, surely what we need is not a pan-Welsh Government approach to European structural funds, but a pan-Wales approach. Why was the opportunity not taken to actually appoint a member of an opposition party to chair that important committee, because surely, on this issue, we should be working together across Wales—[Interruption.] Why not release them? Absolutely. It’s always been a Labour Member. Why was the Chair of the programme monitoring committee subject to Cabinet collective responsibility, when, the last time I checked, they’re not even in the Cabinet?

I thank the Member for those questions. It was never a claim that I made in my statement that European funds have been, to quote the Member, an unalloyed success. My case was that, in the difficult times that we have faced, European funding has been a fundamental element in bringing about some very significant improvements. If the Member thought that I was selective in my examples, then I’m afraid he will have wanted to have looked through this own list of particular examples that he chose to highlight this afternoon.

He went to raise a series of important points. Of course, the exchange rate—trying to keep abreast of changes in the exchange rate is a particular challenge at the moment for all our European funding programmes. Part of WEFO, and other direct links with the Commission, is about making sure that we try to have planning rates, co-financing rates and intervention rates that are sensible and do the very best they can from a Welsh point of view. But it is a rapidly moving picture and the decisions are not entirely in the hands of Wales. They are agreed with the Commission as those planning rates change. As far as WEFO is concerned, I entirely agree that the core task for all of us involved in this in Wales is to make sure that money is committed, but more than committed—that programmes deliver on the ground, so that funding can be rapidly drawn down for important purposes here in Wales.

I don’t think it is fair to characterise the decision-making pace as being grindingly slow. Forty three per cent of all structural funds are already committed. That will rise to 60 per cent by 23 November, and that demonstrates the way in which, with our partners, we have done our best to accelerate the approval of important programmes. I do say this, and I’ve said it to WEFO: I want an accelerated pace of approving programmes that will make a real difference. I will not be willing to think of approving programmes simply to draw down the money. The programmes have to be programmes that we would agree will make the difference we need them to make in Wales.

I do understand that, at its last meeting, the programme monitoring committee discussed the best way of organising its time, and the best way of working. It is for them entirely to do that. I understand there was a possibility of fewer but longer meetings. As I understand it, that was one of a number of suggestions, and not necessarily the one that gathered the largest amount of support.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his statement today? Cabinet Secretary, you cite improvements in employment rates since 2000 in your statement as a major success of structural funds. I would agree that they have played their part, along with other elements. I would suggest UK Government economic policy, over the last few years, has also played a part, along with those structural funds. Do you recognise, though, that, as Adam Price said in his remarks earlier, whilst the unemployment rates of west Wales and the Valleys have, thankfully, improved, that region still has an unacceptably low level of gross value added, relative to the rest of the UK? It’s a situation that has not been improved as much as it should have been after consecutive rounds of structural funding, and it’s certainly not fulfilling the prophecy of one Rhodri Morgan, former First Minister, who predicted that one round of structural funds would be enough, and that we would have a more sustainable economy across Wales in the future.

Can I ask you how are you intending to use the remaining EU funds to develop a more sustainable local economy that can better support itself in west Wales and the Valleys, and, indeed, across the rest of the supported areas? Along with you, I welcome the UK Government’s firm commitment to guarantee expenditure for all European structural and investment funds approved prior to the UK leaving the EU. What discussions have you had with the UK Government about the nature of that guarantee, most importantly the length of it? Now, I appreciate, of course, that this ball, in many ways, is not in your court—it is with the UK Government. But I think we all agree it would be very helpful if we could have some indication, at the earliest opportunity, of the type of support that will, ultimately, be replacing EU funds when we leave, in terms of a UK solution.

I welcome the fact that the UK Treasury have confirmed that the Welsh Government will continue to determine how EU funds are spent in Wales. It would have been very odd if this had not been the case. Only recently, we had a debate on the programme for government here, and we spoke about the importance of delivery, so delivery, and maximising what we’ve got left of European funds, up until 2020, becomes very important.

You mentioned monitoring. Can I congratulate Julie Morgan on her appointment to her new position on the Wales monitoring committee? I hope you have a little bit more luck that Jenny Rathbone did during her time in a similar position. It is not an easy job, Julie, but we do certainly recognise that it’s a job that has to be done.

Can I echo Adam Price’s earlier comments that it would be good if this Assembly as a whole could have a little bit more of a hold on the scrutinising of the spend of structural funds? I heard the comments that were made about the reductions in meetings. Whether you have shorter meetings, longer meetings or more frequent meetings, I do think it would be helpful if this Assembly itself had more of a scrutinising role over what is going on in those meetings, because it is clearly a very important job that is being done, and will increase in importance as we move towards the end of this 2020 period. So, if you could tell us how you plan, or how you think we could improve scrutiny, and whether you’d be willing for us to do that here, that would be very helpful, although I do appreciate it is a Welsh Government committee, of course, and not an Assembly committee.

Two very quick, final questions. Horizon 2020, Cabinet Secretary, is not the subject directly of today’s statement, but is nonetheless a very important aspect. When I was on the Finance Committee in the fourth Assembly, we looked at the spending that was involved in the Horizon 2020 programme. It would be good if we could have some clarity on how you see that going over the next couple of years.

And, finally, when the Finance Committee looked at the funding opportunities, we thought there was a role for the championing of the Welsh creative sector, which I don’t think has been mentioned today. Could you tell us how you plan to use the remainder of this period of structural funds to better support the Welsh creative sector, which has a very important role to play in boosting and delivering for the Welsh economy?

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I’ll move straight into the questions that the Member raised. Our plans for using the remaining European funds that we have at our disposal during the 2014-20 programme will be by delivering the programme that was agreed at a UK level with the European Union. It involved learning the lessons from the 2007-13 round. It involved making sure that we have a proper mix of private, public and third sector partners and schemes on the table. It involved making sure that we focus on those people who are furthest away from the labour market, because that’s where the earlier programme showed that interventions derived the greatest value. I’m happy to say again that I welcomed the UK Government’s announcement that it would guarantee these structural funds for the whole of the 2014-20 period. That’s an important measure for boosting confidence amongst our partners. I discussed it with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury during my meeting with him on 28 September. We touched then in a very introductory way on how these sorts of funds will be deployed post membership of the European Union.

Can I say from my perspective that it will be very important to make sure that, in our discussions with the UK Government, we set a number of important ground rules? First of all, competencies that are located with the National Assembly but have been exercised through the European Union, when we are no longer a member of the European Union, revert to this Assembly. They do not go to London and then get handed on. They are already devolved here and when we no longer exercise them through the European Union they return here for us to exercise them. It may well be sensible in some instances to re-pool some of those responsibilities so that we exercise them jointly within the United Kingdom. But that’s a decision for us to make rather than one to be presumed on our behalf. The European Union funding that we have in Wales is the only funding that we get that is based on the needs that we have in Wales and those needs are recognised through a rule book, which we sometimes regard as a bit sclerotic and difficult to navigate, but nevertheless there is a rule book and we are able to argue about or have an ability to draw down funding according to the rules. And we will need a rules-based system for the way that we discharge these responsibilities when they revert from the European Union in future. So, the Member is absolutely right to point to the need to have these sorts of discussions and to work those things out, because they will be very important in future.

On PMC meetings, let me just say again: it’s not a matter for the Welsh Government at all as to how the PMC discharges its responsibilities. It’s a monitoring programme that is not set up at the behest of the Welsh Government. It is a requirement of structural funding as part of our agreement with the European Union. It operates, again, within that rule book. I’m very glad to be able to be making a statement today so that Members can ask questions and scrutinise the way in which these responsibilities are being discharged.

The final points that Nick Ramsay asked were about Horizon 2020. It is covered by the same guarantee that the Chancellor announced a week or so ago. Wales does very well out of Horizon 2020. By June of this year, there had been 93 Welsh participations in Horizon 2020, drawing down £36 million worth of funding for research purposes in Wales. So, that guarantee is very welcome. The creative sector plays its part in a range of different European programmes and I’m sure that Members will have heard what was said about its importance in the remaining time that we have to make use of those funds.

Like everybody else, I welcome the statement as far as it goes, which isn’t very far. I think there’s widespread agreement across the floor here and that the important questions have already been asked. I endorse what Adam Price said and what Nick Ramsay said. The statement is very self-congratulatory, of course, and expresses the extent to which these funds have helped shape the development of Wales’s economic fortunes, in the words of the statement. But, as I pointed out in questions to the First Minister today, these increases in employment have gone hand in hand with a relative falling away of wages compared with other parts of the United Kingdom. I was very interested to hear what Adam Price said about GVA compared with other parts of Europe that are in a similar condition to west Wales and the Valleys. It seems to me that this programme has not actually performed as well as it might have done.

I welcome, of course, the fact that the United Kingdom Government has guaranteed the spending decisions that have been made and will be made by the Welsh Government in this funding period, and I certainly endorse what Mr Cabinet Secretary has just said about the reversion of competence to this Chamber and to the Welsh Government, following our leaving the EU, of various matters that currently are out of our hands. Obviously, for the time being, the spending decisions that have been made remain subject to EU rules, but we have to remember that it’s all British taxpayers’ money, fundamentally, even though it comes via the prism of the EU. Once we leave the EU, the opportunity will be ours and ours alone to decide on our priorities and to make our own rules as to how this money will be spent, subject, of course, to what the UK Government provides for us through the Barnett formula, which is something else that we need to revisit, I think, considering the relativities of income that I set out earlier on today, and which were mentioned by Adam Price.

So, I don’t really have a great deal to add to what has been said already. As regards the programme monitoring committee, of course, I’m delighted to welcome Julie Morgan as the chair of it. As we see the stratospheric rise of another ex-First Lady across the Atlantic, who knows where her political career may go from here? Wales may have, in due course, a female First Minister and the sooner the better, I would say, in that respect.

I think the statement was rather ungenerous in not paying tribute to Jenny Rathbone for her conscientious commitment to the role when she was the chairman of this committee, and I wonder whether that has anything to do with her statement that her sacking was the result of a culture at the top of the Welsh Government that doesn’t allow for rigorous debate or reflection on the best use of public funds.

Can we stick to the statement? Sorry. Can we stick to the statement, please? Can you question the Minister on the statement?

Yes, well, this is the question. I’m asking—

No, I think we’ve had a bit of rhetoric from previous, so if we can come to questions on the statement, please, I would be grateful.

So, I would like to underline the importance of what Adam Price said about including more Members from opposition parties in such functions. As I said earlier on in First Minister’s questions about the external advisory group in relation to the EU, it’s unfortunate that there isn’t a broader collection of people who are involved in giving that advice, and similarly in relation to this committee. ‘Keep your enemies close’, is what I would say, because then you will get more out of them.

I think I heard two questions in the middle of that, Dirprwy Lywydd. Let me confirm for the Member: he asked whether spending decisions that are made while we remain within the European Union are to be made in a way that is consistent with the legal obligations that membership provides; the answer to that is ‘yes’. He then asked whether future regional policy outside the European Union would give us a greater freedom of decision making to design that policy here in Wales; the answer to that is ‘yes’, as well.

Can I welcome the statement and welcome the appointment of my colleague Julie Morgan to this important position? Could I simply note that, whilst we might disagree at the rate of progress, we cannot ignore the fact that in this generation, the communities that Adam and I represent were thrown into the seven pits of hell, down to the deepest in terms of economic and social ills, and we had to pull ourselves up from that, but the direction of travel is the right direction of travel? I’m pleased to see the commitment of funds, with up to 43 per cent of structural funds now allocated, and the further progress that will be made very shortly. I’ve seen my own constituency benefiting in terms of Jobs Growth Wales, apprenticeship schemes with the local Bridgend College and local employers, and direct investment in safeguarding and growing employment within my community. But, I note that the Cabinet Secretary says, in the middle of his statement,

‘It remains the case, however, that our ability fully to deliver the 2014-2020 programmes as originally planned and in line with our agreements with the European Commission, is still hugely dependent on the UK Government’s timescale for leaving the EU.’

And as we know, Deputy Presiding Officer, that is clouded, still, in confusion. So, could I say to the Cabinet Secretary: isn’t this absolutely the imperative, that the UK Government now needs to listen to employers, colleges, Welsh Government and the people of Wales in shaping both the speed and the shape of the exit from the European Union? That is an imperative, otherwise we, the people who are most dependent on this as a contribution to our economic and social regeneration, will be the ones worst affected by decisions at the other end of the M4.

Dirprwy Lywydd, can I say how much I agree with both points that the Member made? I emphasise in my statement the timescale for leaving and the importance of that in relation to the current round of structural funds, but the Member emphasises not simply the speed but the shape of that exit—the nature of it. And while we remain in close dialogue with the United Kingdom Government to make sure that Wales’s interests are fully understood and articulated to them, it also remains the case that there is no secret plan in the drawer that is slowly being revealed to us. We continue to deal with a Westminster and Whitehall end where the infighting, the lack of clarity, the impossibility, it seems, of trying to arrive at a single perspective, which would govern the speed, scale and nature of exit, remains hugely problematic.

Cabinet Secretary, will you finally recognise that there is no such thing as EU funding? It is, and always has been, UK taxpayers’ money. If the British taxpayer was to give the EU this £10 note, we would get back this £5 note. It is not, and never has been, EU money. Would you please recognise that?

Also, you said in your statement that the UK Government recognises how important EU funds are to Wales in addressing economic and social disparity. Actually, I think that we all recognise how much there needs to be an immediate review of the Barnett formula to establish a fairer and more robust funding model for Wales, to ensure it is not left behind from the impending Brexit dividend. So, let’s not just have Brexit for breakfast, let’s have it for lunch and dinner, too. So, will you agree with me that a review of the Barnett formula is needed to ensure a longer lasting funding solution to Wales’s needs?

Let me begin by disagreeing with Nathan Gill. When I pay my subscription to Glamorgan County Cricket Club every year, I don’t then go around saying every time I go there, ‘By the way, that’s my money, not yours.’ It becomes Glamorgan County Cricket Club’s money, which they use on my entertainment. [Interruption.] Or not, as the case may be. [Laughter.]

As for his second point, as to whether or not leaving the European Union and the funding changes that brings about ought to lead to a wider review of the way in which funding flows to Wales, including the Barnett formula, well, there I do agree with him.

Thank you very much. I’ve no more speakers; thank you.