We move on to the Welsh Conservatives’ debate—a youth parliament. I call on Darren Millar to move the motion. Darren.

Motion NDM6120 Paul Davies, Neil Hamilton, Jane Hutt, Rhun ap Iorwerth

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Resolves to establish a youth parliament for Wales.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. It’s a pleasure to have an opportunity to open and lead this debate, which calls on the National Assembly for Wales to establish a youth parliament for Wales. I want to say thank you to all parties in the Chamber for the support that has been shown for this motion.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae gan y Cynulliad hwn draddodiad balch o gefnogi plant a phobl ifanc. Ers ei sefydlu yn 1999, cafwyd deddfwriaethau nodedig a phenderfyniadau sydd wedi gosod Cymru ar y blaen yn fyd-eang o ran hyrwyddo lle plant a phobl ifanc yn ein cenedl. Ym mlynyddoedd cynnar y Cynulliad hwn, rhoddodd y penderfyniad i fabwysiadu dull sy’n seiliedig ar hawliau mewn perthynas â phlant a phobl ifanc y sefydliad hwn ar lwybr a arweiniodd y ffordd i wledydd eraill y DU. Roedd y gefnogaeth unfrydol i greu swydd comisiynydd plant i Gymru er mwyn hyrwyddo’r hawliau hynny yn gam pwysig. Yn 2001, Cymru oedd y wlad gyntaf un yn y DU i benodi comisiynydd plant—person gwirioneddol annibynnol i ddwyn Llywodraeth Cymru, y Senedd hon ac eraill i gyfrif, ac i sicrhau ein bod yn cyflawni ar gyfer ein dinasyddion ifanc. Yna, yn 2011, aethom ymhellach, gan ddeddfu i ymgorffori hawliau plant a phobl ifanc yng nghyfraith Cymru, a gosod dyletswyddau ar Weinidogion i roi sylw i Gonfensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau’r Plentyn, ac yna, yn 2014, ymestyn y dyletswyddau hynny i hybu gwybodaeth a dealltwriaeth o’r Confensiwn.

Rydym wedi cefnogi datblygiad cynghorau ysgol i roi mwy o lais i blant a phobl ifanc yn y ffordd y caiff eu hysgolion eu rhedeg, ac rydym wedi annog pobl ifanc i ddefnyddio proses ddeisebau’r Cynulliad i fynegi pryderon ac i ymgyrchu dros newid. Mae’r rhain i gyd yn gyflawniadau arloesol y gallwn fod yn falch ohonynt. I’w gwneud yn fwy arbennig byth, cawsant eu cyflawni gyda chefnogaeth drawsbleidiol. Nid yn unig ein bod wedi mabwysiadu polisïau ac wedi deddfu ar gyfer hawliau plant a phobl ifanc, ond mae pob un o’r pleidiau yn y Siambr hon hefyd wedi mynegi ei chefnogaeth i ymgysylltu â phobl ifanc. Mae ACau unigol, drwy ymweliadau ysgol a chyfarfod â phobl ifanc yn eu hetholaethau, drwy ymweld â cholegau ac ymgysylltu â mudiadau ieuenctid, er enghraifft, i gyd wedi gwella’u hymgysylltiad. Rydym wedi cefnogi gwaith ardderchog Comisiwn y Cynulliad hefyd yn ymgysylltu â phobl ifanc yn ein hysgolion, ein colegau a’n prifysgolion. Mae timau ymgysylltu’r Cynulliad wedi cyflwyno miloedd o sesiynau addysg i filoedd o bobl ifanc ar draws y wlad, yn eu hysbysu am ein gwaith fel Cynulliad ac yn eu hannog i gymryd rhan yn yr hyn a wnawn. Maent hefyd wedi cynorthwyo rhaglen bwyllgorau’r Cynulliad, i hwyluso ymarferion rhoi tystiolaeth gyda phlant a phobl ifanc er mwyn eu galluogi i gyfrannu at ein gwaith. Cofiaf, er enghraifft, y gweithgareddau ymgysylltu ardderchog a gafodd y cyn Bwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol yn y Cynulliad blaenorol gyda phobl ifanc mewn perthynas â’n hymchwiliad i sylweddau seicoweithredol newydd, neu ‘anterth cyfreithiol’ fel y’u gelwir.

Mae’r Comisiwn, wrth gwrs, hefyd yn rhoi cymorth gyda chostau cludiant i ysgolion ac eraill i’w galluogi i ymweld â’r Senedd. Mae pob un o’r pethau hyn yn enghreifftiau cadarnhaol iawn o ymgysylltiad â phobl ifanc, ac mae angen iddynt barhau. Maent yn helpu i ddangos sut rydym yn ceisio cydymffurfio â gofyniad Confensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau’r Plentyn i barchu barn y plentyn. Ond er gwaethaf y llwyddiannau pwysig hyn, mae ein henw da fel sefydliad wedi cael ei lychwino yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf yn sgil absenoldeb senedd ieuenctid yng Nghymru. Wrth gwrs, nid yw bob amser wedi bod felly. Yn ôl yn 2003, sefydlwyd y Ddraig Ffynci, Cynulliad plant a phobl ifanc, gyda chefnogaeth ariannol Llywodraeth Cymru. Cafwyd croeso gan bawb i’r llwyfan a grëwyd i blant a phobl ifanc allu trafod eu pryderon a lleisio’u barn ac ymgysylltu â chynrychiolwyr etholedig ar bob lefel o lywodraeth. Gweithiodd y Ddraig Ffynci yn ofalus iawn i fod yn gynhwysol ac i fod yn gorff cynrychioliadol a estynnai allan at gymunedau ledled Cymru ac a oedd yn sicrhau bod pobl ifanc mewn grwpiau anodd eu cyrraedd yn cael eu clywed hefyd. Roedd yn ymwneud yn dda â seneddau ieuenctid eraill yn y DU, yn Ewrop a thu hwnt, ac yn fuan, daeth yn sefydliad i droi ato er mwyn ceisio barn plant a phobl ifanc. Ac wrth gwrs, ymgysylltai’n dda â Llywodraeth Cymru, y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, y Comisiynwyr, ac eraill sy’n gwneud penderfyniadau ledled y wlad.

Roedd y Ddraig Ffynci yn llwyddiant. Trafodai faterion sy’n peri pryder i bobl ifanc, o fwlio a’r amgylchedd i hygyrchedd trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl. Cafodd pobl ifanc eu cynorthwyo a’u cefnogi i ymchwilio, i ddadlau, ac i wneud argymhellion i’r rhai sy’n gwneud penderfyniadau. Eto i gyd, er gwaethaf y llwyddiant, yn 2014, torrwyd ei gyllid, ac yn anffodus, cafodd y Ddraig Ffynci ei dirwyn i ben. Wrth gwrs, cafodd ei ddisodli gan brosiect arall ar gyfer ymgysylltu ag ieuenctid, prosiect o’r enw Cymru Ifanc, sy’n gwneud gwaith rhagorol yn ymgysylltu â phobl ifanc ar draws y wlad, yn gwrando ar eu barn a cheisio gwneud eu lleisiau’n glywadwy i’r rhai sy’n gwneud penderfyniadau, ond nid yw, ac nid yw erioed wedi esgus bod yn senedd ieuenctid.

Nawr, nid oes arnaf eisiau manylu ar y dadleuon a fu’n rhemp yn y Cynulliad ar yr adeg y gwnaed y penderfyniad i roi’r gorau i fuddsoddi yn y Ddraig Ffynci, ond afraid dweud, gwelwyd hynny fel cam yn ôl gan lawer ar bob ochr i’r tŷ hwn. Ac ers tranc y Ddraig Ffynci, cafwyd corws cynyddol o leisiau’n galw am sefydlu senedd ieuenctid newydd yng Nghymru. Canfu arolwg o bobl ifanc gan yr Ymgyrch dros Gynulliad Plant a Phobl Ifanc Cymru fod mwyafrif llethol o 92 y cant o’r ymatebwyr am weld senedd ieuenctid newydd, ac 85 y cant o’r rhai a holwyd eisiau i’r senedd ieuenctid fod yn barhaol ac wedi’i gwarchod mewn cyfraith. Mae Comisiynydd Plant Cymru hefyd wedi galw am adfer gofod democrataidd cenedlaethol i bobl ifanc ar ffurf cynulliad ieuenctid yn ei hadroddiad diweddar. Mae’r Cyngor Prydeinig, y Gymdeithas Diwygio Etholiadol ac eraill wedi mynegi eu cefnogaeth i senedd ieuenctid hefyd. Ac yn adroddiad pwyllgor monitro Confensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau’r Plentyn eleni, a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Gorffennaf, mynegodd y pwyllgor bryder nad oes gan Gymru senedd ieuenctid, a galwodd am sefydlu un.

Nawr, rwy’n cydnabod bod yna wahanol fodelau o seneddau ieuenctid mewn gwahanol wledydd ac awdurdodaethau o gwmpas y byd, gan gynnwys yma yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Sefydlir rhai gan Lywodraethau, sefydlir rhai gan sefydliadau seneddol, a gwrandewais yn ofalus ar yr hyn a ddywedwyd yn gynharach mewn ymateb i gwestiwn yr Aelod dros Dorfaen i’r Llywydd mewn perthynas â sefydlu senedd ieuenctid yma. Roeddwn yn falch iawn o glywed yr ymateb, ac rwy’n edrych ymlaen at glywed mwy yn y drafodaeth ynglŷn â sut y gall y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn ddatblygu cynnig ar gyfer senedd ieuenctid yma. Ond nid yw’r union fodel y dylai’r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol ei fabwysiadu yn rhywbeth rwyf am ei drafod yn rhy fanwl; rwy’n siŵr y bydd pobl eraill yn cyflwyno syniadau i’r Siambr y prynhawn yma. Ond yr hyn rwy’n ceisio ei wneud heddiw, ac rwy’n ddiolchgar am gefnogaeth yr holl bleidiau, yw sicrhau cytundeb i benderfynu sefydlu senedd ieuenctid genedlaethol i Gymru, fel y gall pobl ifanc yma gael cyfle i leisio barn ac i ddylanwadu ar benderfyniadau sy’n cael eu gwneud am eu bywydau yn y lle hwn ac mewn mannau eraill, ac wrth gwrs, rydym i gyd yn gwybod y gall senedd ieuenctid helpu i sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd.

Will you take an intervention?

Of course I will.

You mentioned influencing decisions in other places as well, and I wonder whether you’d agree with me that there’s an option we should be considering as well for youth councils, sort of shadow councils, because, if we’re talking about young people not getting involved in politics at our level, really we need them involved at council level as well.

You’re absolutely right, and there are some good examples across Wales of youth councils in operation, but, unfortunately, it’s not consistently applied across the country, in spite of the work of Young Wales and other organisations like them.

So, we’ve got this excellent track record. We were leading the way in terms of youth engagement very early on in the life of the Assembly. We invested in this and have continued to invest as an institution, as a parliament, and, indeed, the Government has also continued to invest. We all want better youth engagement, individually and as an institution, and I happen to believe that the best way of achieving that is by re-establishing a youth parliament as soon as it’s feasible to do so. I recognise there are costs involved in these sorts of decisions, but the reality is this is a price worth paying to make sure that the next generation of leaders for Wales are people who understand the democratic processes and recognise that their voices are to be heard, and I very much hope that everybody in this Chamber will be unanimous in their support of the motion before us today. Thank you.

It is a sad fact that too many young people feel disengaged from politics today. This sense of disengagement needs to be addressed if we are to sustain a healthy and accountable democracy in Wales. Detailed polling by the firm Opinium suggests that turnout among 18 to 24-year-olds in the last referendum was 64 per cent, which was a bit of encouraging news. The figure is much higher than originally thought. I believe that engaging people early in the democratic process is vital if we are to ensure they continue to participate in our future.

Creating a youth parliament in Wales will not do this alone, but I do think that giving young people an opportunity to make their views heard, particularly on issues that affect them, will greatly assist in increasing the engagement that we all wish to see. Youth parliaments exist in many other countries, such as Belgium, Finland and Australia. Deputy Presiding Officer, Scotland has its own youth parliament, while Northern Ireland has made considerable strides within its own youth democracy organisations. Wales remains in a minority of UK nations and territories that do not have a youth parliament. The United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child recently said that one of the issues facing Wales was the disappointment surrounding young people not having a national, independent, democratically elected youth parliament. We all believe that a youth parliament in Wales is vital in widening understanding of the role of the National Assembly. In a recent poll, only 61 per cent of respondents knew that the Welsh Government was responsible for education in Wales. Remarkably, only 48 per cent of respondents knew they were responsible for the NHS. If voters do not understand the devolved power we have in Wales, then there’ll be little motivation to go out and vote.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I made a few notes while I was listening to my colleague, Darren Millar. The political system actually put together and the public opinion get together and the young people’s voice must be heard within that arena. Understanding of race relations, understanding of LGBT, and understanding of other different relations at a young age is vital to have a peaceful society for the future. All other areas, such as tuition fees, are directly affected by the living wage and child poverty. These are the areas where we must know the views of the child, and what they are going through within their families, especially in Wales, where poverty is still very, very serious among our young children. Fifteen per cent of our population—15 per cent, Deputy Presiding Officer—are between the age of 11 and 18. Actually, that comes to around about 0.5 million children. So, we’ve got to be serious about it and we’ve got to do not what’s best for us, but what’s best for them also, and best for our future.

A reduction in the age for voting is also a view that I heard from the Minister earlier. Children have different views about that. Why don’t we listen to the children as to what their opinion is on that side also? We also know that the mental health issues in our society can be very nicely looked after by young children. The young children are a force; the grandparents and parents virtually—they get cured by the youngsters of their own families more than medicines and other things. Zero tolerance in school—I mean bullying—is another one where we must consider the children’s views. We must move the recommendations on and—[Inaudible.]—this Chamber, Deputy Presiding Officer. But the fact is we must—we must, we must—listen to young children’s opinions and their views and their concerns before we make any rules and bye-laws here.

There is a long list, Deputy Presiding Officer—time is short—but we must do whatever we can to make this country greener, and we can only have a greener future if our children are there, involved in our planning for the future. If one child plants one tree or two trees or three trees in his or her lifetime, there’d be 1.5 million trees in the next seven to 10 years. There’s a long list, Minister, and we want to make sure that our children’s parliament is as vital as this parliament in Wales. Deputy Presiding Officer, education remains the key to democratic engagement. I believe that a youth parliament, in conjunction with other measures, would drive up interest in the democratic process and deliver long-term benefits. It will bring a colourful, beautiful painting to our black and white political picture in this country. Thank you.

I’m grateful for the opportunity to speak today. Can I also thank the Welsh Conservatives for letting the Assembly use some of their debate time for this very important debate?

I’m very pleased to speak in support of this motion today, because I genuinely believe the need for a youth parliament is a complete no-brainer. I am proud of the role this Welsh Labour Government has played in promoting children’s rights and I am also proud that this Assembly has led the way in the world with cross-party support for our Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011.

I was disappointed, in 2014, when the decision was taken by Welsh Government to cease funding for Funky Dragon, and made the point to Ministers at the time that I felt it would’ve been better to work with Funky Dragon and children’s voluntary organisations in Wales to find a way to maintain a youth parliament in Wales.

In June this year, the United Nations gave its verdict on what progress has been made to deliver on children’s rights in Wales following a UK-wide review. It made more than 150 recommendations and one of the concerns expressed was that children’s views are not systematically heard in policy making on issues that affect them. It noted that there is no youth parliament in Wales and recommended that one should be established as a matter of priority.

I am absolutely delighted that the Assembly Commission is taking forward this initiative and really welcome the personal commitment that the Presiding Officer has given to making this a priority today. Notwithstanding my earlier comments about the decision to cease funding for Funky Dragon, I believe that having a youth parliament set up by this Assembly is far better, in my view, than having one directly funded by Welsh Government. I hope it will be more independent and provide a far stronger voice for children and young people in Wales. I would like to place on record my thanks to the Campaign for the Children and Young People’s Assembly for Wales, for the work they’ve done to press this issue, and for the consultation they’ve undertaken with young people on what such a parliament should look like. I am sure we’re all looking forward to seeing the detail of that consultation, but as Darren Millar has already said, it is great to know that 92 per cent of respondents supported the establishment of a youth parliament and 85 per cent of respondents would like to see the parliament made permanent and protected in law. And I hope that, too, is something that the Commission will look at.

I just wanted to close by saying a few words about the need to ensure the broadest possible participation by young people in Wales in a future parliament. I think there is always a risk that such parliaments are more prone to engaging the more articulate, confident young people—and I celebrate the fact that we have these young people in Wales—but the test of a genuinely representative parliament will be how effectively it ensures we hear the voices of some of those young people who do not usually get their voices heard. I believe there is good practice we can draw on here, and I hope that the Commission will look at this. As part of the Children, Young People and Education Committee’s inquiry into youth services in Wales, I learnt about a project run by the Boys’ and Girls’ Clubs of Wales called Not the Usual Suspects, which is designed to engage young people who are not normally consulted. As part of that, they developed an app called ‘Politically Incorrect’. I believe we need to look at all good practice to make sure that, going forward, we engage the widest number of young people, also building on the excellent work of youth engagement already undertaken by the Commission.

Last week, I was privileged to be invited to a forum organised by the children’s commissioner for 15 to 24-year-olds in Wales with experience of being looked after, along with Llyr Gruffydd, Darren Millar and Carl Sargeant. There, we heard from young people of their very powerful hard-hitting experiences of the care system in Wales. Despite all the challenges they’d faced, these young people spoke out forcefully and powerfully about their needs. I hope that any youth parliament will ensure that those are the kinds of voices we also make sure are heard—a youth parliament that addresses the needs of the most disadvantaged young people will be one we can all be very proud of in Wales. Thank you.

The question of a youth parliament, or youth assembly, indeed, as Lynne Neagle referred to it, which I think I would favour as well, is one that has been discussed a number of times in this Assembly by many AMs past and present over the years, but we’ve never quite got there—well, certainly not yet.

This is, at the end of the day, about democracy—increasing youth participation and getting voter turnouts up, and I think we would all want to do that. Currently, Wales is one of six devolved nations without a youth parliament, and that’s simply not good enough. It’s not just us saying this, or AMs across parties saying this; the United Nations agree. As has been said, they believe that a youth parliament in Wales would be a key way of supporting article 12. The children’s commissioner has also said something similar. The children’s commissioner sees it as a vehicle for engagement and enfranchisement. A youth parliament featured in more than one party’s manifesto, so this is one of those issues that is genuinely cross-cutting across all parties, and would have widespread support were it to go ahead.

But, although Members like Lynne Neagle have campaigned for a long time for this sort of development, it’s still not a key priority of the Welsh Government, or certainly hasn’t been up until this point. That’s the reason for us bringing this debate forward today—to show that it’s not just one party, it’s all parties, it’s the Assembly as a whole. We would like to see the Welsh Government bringing forward legislation in this area to establish this or an appropriate mechanism.

This isn’t just about giving a democratic voice to young people. It’s also about creating a new conduit that can provide more robust scrutiny to the democratic processes in Wales. Young people will be able to give evidence more directly to National Assembly committees, as has been mentioned by Mohammad Asghar. But let’s go back to this issue of engagement, which, in Wales, let’s face it, historically, is at a low. The Hansard Society’s audit of political engagement in 2014 showed that just 30 per cent of young people are certain to vote, but, as we know, 58 per cent would be prepared to do something if they felt strongly enough. So, young people have a different way of approaching politics—different to the older generations, at any rate. It’s one that we should recognise and we should provide mechanisms and vehicles that are suited to that.

Now, I’m not standing here stating that a youth parliament is the be-all and end-all and will change everything overnight for the better. It would be ludicrous to claim that. It won’t. I don’t believe that lowering the voting age to 16 is a silver bullet either. In fact, in the past in this Chamber, I’ve not been an advocate of lowering the voting age. I must admit my views on this issue have moved, but I think that whether it’s about the voting age or whether it’s about a youth parliament, none of these alone are sufficient mechanisms to increase youth engagement. But, taken together as a package, I think that there is a vehicle there that would be capable of moving the arguments on. I’ve come to the conclusion that this is one key way that we could do this. We want young people to engage, so we have to engage with them and them with us. It’s a symbiotic process.

I imagine we would all want to see voter turnout for Assembly elections on a par with general elections in Westminster, and getting young people more involved in the process here in this Assembly is a step towards doing that. But it won’t just happen by words alone, and I think it’s time for us to see action on this front to get these things done.

The UK Youth Parliament was born in 1999, the year this Assembly itself was born, so maybe we aren’t that far behind, but we still have a lot of groundwork to do, and the sooner we start, the sooner we will get there. As we’ve heard, other areas have done it. Northern Ireland set up a youth forum back in 1979. Scotland’s institution has been lauded as offering one of the highest levels of youth participation anywhere. So, not that far away in this United Kingdom, youth parliaments and youth fora are working, have been working and will work into the future. Further afield, in Australia, youth Bills can get passed on to the actual Parliament for their review. So, young people really feel engaged in the overall process in Australia at a very young age.

This will only work here if we have strong links between schools, other educational facilities and the new youth parliament or youth assembly that we want to create. As Mohammad Asghar said in his contribution, this is about creating a healthy, vibrant democracy overall. Young people aren’t young people forever. They are the older people of tomorrow. We were all the younger generation once—at least I think many of us were—and we are here now. So, let’s get on with the job. Yes, let’s talk about this in this debate today and let’s agree that we need a youth parliament, but let’s get on with laying those foundations today so that that youth parliament can be up and running as soon as possible and we can get on with creating a far healthier and more vibrant democracy in Wales.

Thank you. David Rowlands.

No.

No? Okay. Thank you. Julie Morgan. Sorry—. Yes; go on, Julie Morgan. Sorry, Rhun. My screen’s all jumping around. Sorry.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to speak in this very important debate. I’d actually like to start by praising the work of Funky Dragon. I think that the work that Funky Dragon did over many years had much merit. I had a lot of contact with Funky Dragon for many years in Westminster, and I know that they did empower many of their members to go forward and to take prominent places in their community. Certainly, we know that some of them went forward and became councillors, and that they’ve campaigned on issues. I think that Funky Dragon did an enormous amount of good. I do regret that we didn’t move from Funky Dragon to a youth parliament because that would have avoided this gap and this feeling that we’ve been left behind in this particular area of work, which, of course, we have to acknowledge, we have been.

We are lagging behind other countries, and we’ve already heard about the fact that the UK parliament has been up since 1999 and, of course, a lot of progress has been made there. The young people now sit on the hallowed green benches, which was a big fight to actually get them to be there, but they do actually debate in that Chamber now, in the House of Commons. Also, the young people there are very representative. When I met a group of young people, I was really pleased that there were Gypsy/Travellers represented as young members of Parliament. So, I thought that that’s the sort of thing we need to think of to make sure that every group is represented. Of course, the Scottish parliament has already been referred to. The Scottish Youth Parliament has members aged 14 to 25, and they represent all of the 32 local authorities in Scotland. So, again, I think that that’s a very good model that we can look at.

There are youth parliaments all over Europe, and, of course, there is a European Youth Parliament. The youth parliaments of the devolved nations, and of all the nations, send representatives to that youth parliament. In the UK we have the power to send people to the youth parliament. I just feel, at this time, when it’s so important for us to keep as many links as we can with Europe, and to build up our links with Europe, that that is going to be a way that, when we hopefully set up the youth parliament, we will have strong links with the European Youth Parliament.

I think it is important to engage young people at an early age with the political process. I know that, in the earlier debate, which I wasn’t present for all of, there was a discussion about the votes for 16 and 17-year-olds. That’s something that I campaigned on for many years along with Funky Dragon. It was one of their five priorities at one time—and along with the British Youth Council. I do feel that there is now a mood coming to this Chamber from all parts, including on the Conservative benches, towards votes for 16 and 17-year-olds. But I do agree; nothing is a golden bullet. Not one thing by itself will ensure that we have young people’s voices actually embedded in everything we do, because that is what we want to do, and that is what actually is in our laws. Because the children’s rights Measure does mean that we are supposed to consider everything we do, how it impacts on children—and the future generations Bill as well. That’s written into it. But in order to make that happen, we have to have young people to use as a reference point. We have to have young people to tell us what they think about things. The way that we will improve the laws we make is by having the voice of young people there. I just think we can’t do that without having a representative body.

So, I think it’s very cheering that we’ve reached this point today. I think the important thing—I know we will discuss different models, and I don’t think it’s the time for it today, as the mover of the motion said—today is the time for us to really show our support for a youth parliament for Wales, to continue with our tradition of fighting for children’s rights, and giving children a real say in what we do here in the Assembly.

I’ll try again. Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I’m very pleased to have the opportunity to take part in this debate. It’s slightly strange that the debate is happening during the opposition debate, because we’re talking about something that’s far beyond party politics. And that’s why I’ve been very happy to be one of those who signed this motion on a cross-party basis.

I feel very enthusiastic about the principle of establishing a youth parliament. I remember, when I was in my teens, being fired up by contemporary issues, and debates on the past, present and future of my nation. That was the start of the journey that led to the honour of being elected to the National Assembly itself.

Now, looking back, I treasure the opportunities that I had at that time, experiences such as the famous debating society at Ysgol David Hughes in Menai Bridge. We have all kinds of groups across Wales that provide experiences for young people. My daughter gets a great deal of benefit from her work with the Bwrdd Syr IfanC Urdd group, and others are having excellent experiences with the Scouts or the Guides. The young farmers—that’s another very important society. I give my best wishes to Laura Elliott, who has had a great deal of experience through the young farmers society and who, partly through that, has been chosen by the Assembly’s branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association to represent our youth CPA in Victoria in Canada next month. That’s an excellent experience for someone so young.

We have an opportunity now to create a national forum, a genuine forum, for the young people of Wales, whatever their interests and whatever their background. A report by the inter-parliamentary association two years ago said that there are youth parliaments in around 35 nations—there might be more now, I don’t know. There are all kinds of formats for them, and their relationships with the national parliaments in those nations varies.

I met an interesting politician from Rwanda around two years ago, again through my work with the Commonwealth. He was a member of the youth parliament of his country, and because of the very formal relationship between the youth parliament and the main parliament, he sat as a representative of young people in the national parliament, amongst the other parliamentary members. After leaving the youth parliament, his interest was fired up, and he went on to be elected as a Member of Parliament.

Nick Ramsay spoke about a different model from Australia, where youth Bills are passed on to the Parliament. So, there are all kinds of models. But what about Wales? There is some kind of a belief that we’ve already had a kind of youth parliament here. We have Young Wales now, and we had Funky Dragon before that. But while I was very critical of the decision to get rid of Funky Dragon, it wasn’t a youth parliament, and that’s what I want to see in Wales. It was a forum from the Government to consult young people and engage with young people. That was entirely right, and I’m very supportive of that, but in the same way that we’re eager to see that the people of Wales don’t get confused between the National Assembly and the Welsh Government, it’s also important for us to pursue the principle that it’s this Senedd, this Parliament, that should lead to a youth parliament.

To conclude, there are elements that are held in common by youth parliaments across the world. First of all, they’re there to listen to young people and to give them an opportunity to express their opinions. Secondly, they’re there to raise awareness amongst young people about their political systems and parliamentary systems that have an effect on their lives. And, thirdly, they’re there to empower young people in the hope that giving direct experience of democratic systems will awaken their desire to play a more active part as citizens in their nations. I think, from working according to those principles, we can lay very firm foundations for a youth parliament for Wales.

I’m delighted to take part in this debate and to commend Darren Millar for all the work that he has done for many years in promoting this project and, indeed, if I may say so, to Lynne Neagle, whose attractive and intelligent speech this afternoon fully justifies the vote that I gave her for the chairmanship of her committee. [Laughter.]

Of course, youth, for me, is an increasingly distant memory, but they say that you are as young as you feel, and every morning I wake up constantly astonished that I can feel anything at all after the rackety life that I’ve led. [Laughter.] But I was interested to listen to Rhun ap Iorwerth a minute ago talk about his teenage reminiscences. I was, myself, an insufferably precocious and opinionated teenager. Indeed, the whole of my life has been a quest for the rational underpinnings of the prejudices I held then. But the importance of this project cannot be underestimated in my view. It is, frankly, a national disgrace that in the referendum vote just a few months ago, only about 30 per cent of young people between the ages of 18 and 24 turned out to vote. Voter disengagement is one of the great curses of our age, and it gets worse as you look at the demographic of voters.

Will you take another intervention? We, of course, would have supported lowering the voting age to 16, but do you accept that had that have happened, the result might well have been very different?

Well, I will come to that point in a moment. It is important to engage more young people in the civic life of our country, and I think a youth parliament would be one way of achieving that. It is an unfortunate truth that we are the only country in Europe not to have an independent youth forum of some kind. I know that we used to have one in Wales in the form of Funky Dragon, which has been mentioned many times in the course of this debate today. I would like to draw attention to Theo Davies-Lewis and the pamphlet that he wrote for ‘Gorwel’, which I will mention in the presence of David Melding here, and the discussions that he had with the First Minister, which, unfortunately, the First Minister was not convinced by. But I hope that, as a result of this debate today and the contributions that have been made by Labour Members in it, it will cause the Government to take a slightly different view.

My party does not support votes at 16, for the reasons admirably set out by Gareth Bennett in his speech earlier on. Also, I think that a youth parliament will be some kind of a halfway house between the two sides of this argument. Disraeli, in 1867, took a leap in the dark, as Lord Derby said, by extending the franchise to the industrial working classes, and then he said that he had to prepare the mind of the country and his party. One of the ways, I think, of preparing the mind of the country on the issue of reducing the voting age would be by introducing an institution of this kind into the picture.

Mohammad Asghar, in his contribution to this debate, did refer to the widespread public ignorance that there is about the powers of this Assembly and the devolved administration. It is amazing that nearly half the people of Wales have no idea that the Welsh Government is responsible for health policy, for example. I think that maybe we are all at fault in not playing our full part in ensuring that public understanding of Government and administration isn’t better informed than it is. Therefore, I think that one of the ways in which we could improve public knowledge and understanding of what we do here, and indeed inspire people to perform public service in the way that politicians do—. We get a very bad press on the whole, and there’s a huge amount of cynicism about politicians, which is largely unjustified. One of the ways in which we could encourage greater public confidence in our profession is by involving people in a formal way at an earlier stage. So, I very much hope that this motion will pass unanimously this afternoon, in the spirit of constructive consensus building that is exemplified in the person of Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas, of course, who has championed this for many years. So, on that basis, I commend this motion to the Assembly.

Thank you very much. I call on the Llywydd and the Chair of the Commission, Elin Jones.

Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this debate and to give an update to the Assembly about the discussions about creating a youth parliament for Wales. Members will be aware that the Commission has discussed this issue in the early days of this fifth Assembly as part of a broader consideration of our strategy for the next five years. One of our three strategic goals for the fifth Assembly is to engage with a wide variety of people and champion the Assembly’s achievements.

The Assembly, like Parliaments worldwide, faces a challenge across the board to increase levels of awareness and understanding of our politics processes. As we address those challenges, it’s important that we remind ourselves that the Assembly isn’t laden with ancient traditions and ways of working; we are one Europe’s youngest parliaments. That isn’t something to fear; we should maximise the opportunities our newness present, and forge a better way of doing politics. And we must take young people with us as we do this. The decisions we take here affect their future, and so their voice must be heard by us as an integral part of our discussions.

We have a proud record in this respect. The Assembly’s outreach and education teams are leading the way in parliamentary engagement, and we have a long-established relationship with the children and young people of Wales. During the last Assembly, the Commission took a conscious decision to focus on its youth engagement efforts, including young people directly into the formal business of the Assembly, providing them with opportunities to influence the work of Members and committees. Since then, we’ve established a youth work programme that has engaged with over 200 youth groups and a wide range of views in the Assembly’s work, including those so often without a voice: looked-after children, disabled children, and young carers. More than 20,000 children and young people visit Siambr Hywel or meet Members and officers on an annual basis.

Many of you Members have engaged with young people through your committee work. Increasingly, I see that their input forms a core and influential part of the evidence-gathering process, and not simply as an annex or reference at the end of a report. Earlier in this debate we referred to the work that some of us did on the health committee in the fourth Assembly, and as a member of that health committee I clearly remember the evidence that we received from young people leaving care as we discussed and drew up legislation on social care services.

Like many of you, I’m sure that I don’t accept that young people aren’t interested in politics. Despite the fact that they cannot vote in Assembly elections hitherto, they understand the importance of the decisions we take here. They can tell us when and how they are directly affected by our actions, and many of them work hard to influence our processes. However, good enough is not good enough.

As a nation that is committed to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, we must do better. Children and young people have the right to participate as citizens now. So, we must increase meaningful opportunities to involve them in our work—input that, I’m sure, will inspire us to think differently about our nation’s future. We should also provide support for them to discuss issues that matter to them, finding ways for young people to drive our agenda, and, above all, we must listen. That’s why, since taking office in May, I’ve made clear my commitment to further increase the involvement of children and young people in the work of the Assembly.

I’m acutely aware of the gap in the provision of a national youth assembly for Wales since Funky Dragon ceased to exist in October 2014. Undoubtedly, Funky Dragon was a trailblazer, because it provided a means for young people in Wales to speak directly with the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child in Geneva, for example. But today we are presented with an opportunity to think afresh about a national democratic space for young people in Wales—a space that reflects the separation between government and parliament. The Welsh Government has developed structures for its own purposes to enable young people to influence its policies and to enable the Government to comply with its duties under the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011.

So, I am delighted that we’re having this debate today, as it allows me to confirm my commitment to establishing a permanent youth parliament for Wales early in the fifth Assembly. The Assembly Commission has endorsed this ambition as part of the new strategy, and I know from conversations with colleagues since May, and from contributing to this debate, that there is enthusiasm across all parties for such a move. Assembly officials have been in close contact with the Campaign for the Children and Young People’s Assembly for Wales since they launched their consultation earlier this year, and that consultation encompasses input by experts in children’s rights, the opinions of young people as well as comparisons of various international parliamentary models. I’ve also discussed this issue with the children’s commissioner, Sally Holland, and found that we share common ground and the same ambitions on this issue. I wish to inform Members that I have written to the Campaign for the Children and Young People’s Assembly for Wales’s trustees in advance of their meeting on 23 October, signalling our commitment to taking this matter forward as a Commission. Of course, I will be respectful of their consultation and I look forward to receiving their final recommendations on a youth parliament before Christmas.

To conclude today, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the trustees of the Campaign for the Children and Young People’s Assembly for Wales, and the campaigners, for their dedication to their cause. For two years now they have campaigned tirelessly for the establishment of a youth assembly, building an outstanding body of research and evidence that will help us to drive our ambition forward. Thank you for reminding us that our duty is not only to today’s voters, but to all citizens with a stake in our democracy, present and future. If the Assembly votes in favour of this motion today, it will give the Commission a clear mandate to make progress on the details to establish, in the near future, the first youth parliament for Wales.

Thank you. I call on Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate.

May I sincerely thank everyone who’s contributed to the debate? I don’t remember so much unanimity on any motion—apart from the references to voting at 16, perhaps. But certainly in terms of the content of the motion itself, I do think that the mandate will be clear and unanimous, and I’d like to thank all Members who’ve contributed, and everyone else who will support the motion.

It was entirely appropriate that we heard at the opening of the debate about the way in which this Assembly has been in the vanguard and has been innovative in terms of the rights of children and young people, and in terms of the creation of a children’s commissioner for Wales, and also, as an institution, in the way in which we take pride in our accessibility as an organisation to young people, and the work that we do with schools and the 20,000 children and young people who visit annually as part of those plans. ‘No brainer’ was Lynne Neagle’s description of this concept of having a children and young people’s parliament, and I think we would all endorse that sentiment. Of course, it was important that she reminded us of what the UN has said in terms of the lack of provision currently.

I’d like also to thank Julie Morgan for reminding us of the UK youth parliament. I have seen pictures of young people on those green benches in Westminster and they are very powerful images, I have to say. It’s not just middle-aged men in grey suits but young people, and all of a sudden you see the House of Commons looking far more lively and far more relevant, and politics, as a result of that, becomes far more lively and far more relevant to the young people who perhaps feel that they are disengaged from politics as it currently exists in this country.

I don’t necessarily agree with Neil Hamilton that the establishment of a youth parliament is some sort of halfway house. I would like to go the whole hog, as they say, and to provide a vote for those aged 16 as well as a youth parliament, and to do more, because this is an ongoing process, not something that can be achieved and left alone. I think that the youth parliament of Rwanda that we heard mentioned poses a challenge to us all. Just imagine a youth parliament where a member of that parliament can actually sit in the full Parliament. Now there’s a challenge for us all. I do think that that would be an excellent thing for us to emulate and it would certainly encourage debate as to what the next move should be in terms of empowering and giving young people a voice in this country.

Of course, after the referendum in Scotland, we did see a wave of young people in Scotland, but also across the UK, who became part of politics and who engaged more with youth politics. We were reminded that those fora do exist in other parts of the UK to channel much of that enthusiasm. Young people, as we know, do have real concerns—about Brexit, about austerity, about their lack of rights in the rental sector, and much more—but far too often, those concerns aren’t heard, never mind listened to, which is another issue altogether, of course.

But, where is the voice of young people in the debate on Brexit today? We know that the First Minister established a consultative group on Europe, but I don’t think that there is a young voice on that particular group, so how can we ensure that we hear the views of young people within that discourse and discussion? The youth work charter that we have in Wales, which was published by the Government some six months ago, does mention young people’s rights, and I quote, to have:

‘Opportunities to participate in decision-making via informal and formal structures for youth engagement locally and nationally’.

Well, there is certainly a void at a national level, and the picture is very patchy at a local level too.

Fel rhywun a ddechreuodd ei yrfa yn y sector gwaith ieuenctid, fel gweithiwr ieuenctid flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl, caf fy atgoffa o rai o egwyddorion sylfaenol gwaith ieuenctid yng Nghymru, sy’n sôn am roi cyfleoedd mynegiannol i bobl ifanc, cyfleoedd sy’n grymuso, cyfleoedd i gymryd rhan. Eto i gyd, ar fater gadael yr UE, mater a fydd yn diffinio nid yn unig ein cenhedlaeth ni, ond cenedlaethau’r dyfodol yn ogystal wrth gwrs, ble mae llais y bobl ifanc? Os cawn hyn yn anghywir, yna hwy, yn amlwg, yw’r rhai a fydd yn talu’r pris.

Cawsom ein hatgoffa o’r gwahaniaethau yn y pleidleisio. Gwyddom hynny, wrth gwrs, rhwng y cenedlaethau iau a hŷn, ond y nifer is a bleidleisiodd hefyd, ymhlith y genhedlaeth iau—30 y cant, rwy’n credu oedd y nifer o blith pobl ifanc a bleidleisiodd yn y refferendwm penodol hwnnw. Nawr, wrth gwrs, nid cynulliad ieuenctid yw’r ateb, nid dyna’r unig ateb, ond mae iddo arwyddocâd ymarferol a symbolaidd iawn, rwy’n meddwl, fel y mae’r drafodaeth hon heddiw yn ei adlewyrchu.

Therefore, I congratulate the Llywydd on her comments. Clearly, this debate started very early after she was elected and very early on in this fifth Assembly. It is an opportunity for us as a young institution, as we were reminded, to innovate. If Westminster, which isn’t famed for being innovative, is able to achieve this, then certainly that reflects on the disappointing situation that currently exists in Wales. I welcome the commitment made and the confirmation of that commitment made by our Llywydd, and I’m grateful that the conversations and the arrangements are already in train.

Achieving a national assembly for children and young people is our aim. I am sure that we will unanimously support this motion today, hopefully. But, as I said, this is part of a continuing process. Achieving that will be a milestone. Let us actually achieve that milestone as soon as we can. Thank you.

Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.