[R] signifies the Member has declared an interest. [W] signifies that the question was tabled in Welsh.

I call on Angela Burns to ask the second urgent question. Angela Burns.

Will the Cabinet Secretary inform Members whether he intends to grant the University of Wales Trinity St David’s application for between £4 – 6 million to fund the development of S4C’s new headquarters in Carmarthen? EAQ(5)0119(EI)

Thorough and balanced consideration of the benefits and the risks involved in this project must be given before any decision is made. Ways we might support the project have now been thoroughly investigated, and I intend bringing together the three Ministers with portfolio interests on this matter next week to be able reach a decision this month.

I’m very pleased to hear that, Cabinet Secretary, because what we need, above all else, is clarification over this situation, hopefully followed by a Welsh Government commitment to Yr Egin. This is so important for Carmarthenshire. We have talked about this project now for, it must be well over 18 months, in and out of this Chamber. It’s always enjoyed enormous amounts of support, not just from the politicians sitting around here, but from Carmarthenshire County Council, from S4C themselves and, of course, from a great many businesses. I myself have in my possession a number of letters from major organisations that would like to take part in this project to develop a base for the creative services industry in west Wales.

Over 60 per cent of the projected floor space is already committed, or being earmarked as expressions of interest. We have the possibility of creating 850 full-time jobs throughout this area and an enormous impact on our local economy. Cabinet Secretary, I’m sure you’ll understand the pressures that Carmarthenshire is under. We may well lose a substantial number of jobs in our local call centre. We’ve already lost a substantial number of jobs through the HMRC reconfiguration, and Carmarthenshire is a town that requires these kinds of skilled jobs to go forward.

Whilst I agree that we all want value for money, what I would really like to understand is whether you are still utterly committed to ensuring that there is greater equality throughout Wales for economic growth, because many rural and industrial regions have been left behind, and we don’t want Carmarthenshire to be one of them. I am concerned about the advice note that you’ve received from the creative industries panel, and I wondered if you might be able to expand on that a little, because the chair of that panel is very unambiguous in his evidence to the Welsh Affairs Select Committee. He said, and I do need to quote this:

‘S4C itself should be relocated to North or West Wales. Culturally the organisation would benefit from being closer to its core audience. The area chosen would see a massive economic boost and, as importantly, an economic boost in Welsh.’

I’m not clear, from the understanding I have of the advice that you received, as to whether his opinion appears to have changed. And, if so, Cabinet Secretary, perhaps you could let us know what you think has changed so dramatically.

Finally, I’d like to say that there is, as far as I understand it—and I’ve been in contact with some of the companies based in Swansea—no Welsh-speaking cluster in Swansea, which some of this advice seems to be predicated or based on. I wondered if you might be able to clarify that.

I cannot say it enough: this project would be an absolute lynchpin for Carmarthenshire. And, yes, I’m going to fight for my patch, and I know you would expect me to, but we’ve talked about this. S4C is culturally so important to Carmarthenshire. West Wales is an area that has an enormous creative drive. Some of the greatest painters and greatest poets come from west Wales, and to base a creative service industry, and to drag, to be basic, the jam from Cardiff out along that corridor, so that areas like ours can benefit and can spread out into Ceredigion, into Pembrokeshire, into Carmarthenshire—and we can all benefit from it—would be very important. And I would like to ask you to just give us further elucidation. Thank you.

Can I thank the Member for her question, and applaud the passion with which she brings this matter to our attention? I would entirely agree that Carmarthen and, indeed, the whole of west Wales, has a huge amount to offer, not just to the Welsh economy but people from outside of Wales, as a fantastic tourist destination as well. I know that because I was there in west Wales yesterday, opening new facilities in the visitor economy.

The Member has spoken strongly in the past in support of the proposals, but the Member has also spoken in the past about the need to ensure that, as a Welsh Government, we conduct proper and thorough due diligence for proposals that are brought to us that require the support of the public purse.

Now, I do appreciate the ambition of the university to want to drive social and cultural development in the region, as well as to drive economic development in the region, and I’m keen to support any project that can deliver economic renewal and cultural benefits across communities in Wales, but the project must be deliverable and viable. And so I’ve been keen to explore every means of supporting a satisfactory business case, which could be submitted in a way that demonstrates financial viability, the economic, cultural and linguistic benefits, of the development, but which also explains the need for public sector intervention. I’ve also had to consider, as the Member has highlighted, expert opinion, not just from the creative industries sector panel, but also expert advice from across Wales, and concerns from across Wales, including from north-west Wales. That said, we are now in a position where I am able to bring together Ministers next week to discuss the matter, and to be able to make a decision this month.

Insofar as sharing the wealth is concerned, the Member is aware that I’ve already declared my intention to see the headquarters of the development bank based in north Wales, and there are opportunities with Historic Wales to see further investment provided to the regions, and, potentially, we will see what happens once the proposals have been fully considered. But one of the recommendations is for Cadw to evolve, and it may well be that we can look at investing in one of the regions in terms of a greater Cadw presence is concerned. I’m going to use all of the tools that are available to us, to make sure that all parts of Wales—all regions, all communities—share in wealth creation.

Can the Cabinet Secretary confirm that he has received correspondence from TG4, which is an Irish television channel, arguing that there will be an economic benefit and a cultural and linguistic benefit accruing from this project, on the basis of their experience in Galway, and that he’s also seen evidence from companies outwith Wales—and, in fact, outwith the United Kingdom—that would be interested in relocating to Yr Egin when it is built? And, finally, can he confirm that the University of Wales Trinity Saint David has offered terms and conditions that would mean that there wouldn’t be a continuous grant—that is, they would actually take it as a loan that would be completely repaid, which would then mean that we have a project here that would directly create 200 jobs, and indirectly 650 jobs, without a penny of cost at the end of the day for Welsh Government? If that doesn’t represent value for money, it’s very difficult to think of anything else that would.

I can assure the Member that we have now received that information and all information relating to the proposal that we’re able to now consider. We’ve also received correspondence from TG4, which, of course, we’ve been able to consider, along with correspondence from potential partners in the project. And in terms of—it was remiss of me not to actually touch on the point raised by Angela Burns—growing a Welsh language hub within Swansea, that’s certainly something that I’d wish to discuss with my friend and colleague Alun Davies. And it is something that we can explore next week, I’m sure, when we discuss the Yr Egin project.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for his response and to Angela for bringing this case to our attention. It was disappointing to see this week that the creative industries sector panel had said that the development of Yr Egin would undermine a similar media hub in Swansea. But it’s come to my attention that, for example, the director of Telesgop, which is the largest media company operating through the medium of Welsh from Swansea, is not aware of any hub that exists in Swansea. At a time of uncertainty, particularly in our rural areas, following the Brexit vote, and when this project would give some glimmer of hope to these areas, can the Cabinet Secretary tell us whether any assessment has been made of the impact of not developing Yr Egin in Carmarthen?

Can I thank the Member for her question? And I must stress that I do believe that the advice from the creative industries sector panel was provided in good faith and has helped in our determination of the project. I do believe that the decision will be taken with regard to what is best for Carmarthen as a community and the creative industries within the community as well. The project obviously offers huge potential, and we’ve been keen to ensure that that potential can be, and could be, delivered by all partners who are part of the project.

I commend the Cabinet Secretary for the speed with which he’s going to decide this matter. Will you accept from me that there is cross-party support for this venture and that we all, in this Assembly, accept that south-west Wales has lagged way behind most of Wales in recent years in terms of income? Adam Price has done a signal service, I think, to us in bringing this to our attention, not just today at First Minister’s questions but also on previous occasions where he shows that we are one of the poorest regions of western Europe. I don’t regard that as an accolade of which we should be proud. Projects of this kind are vitally important, not just for the immediate jobs that they bring, but also for changing the whole atmosphere of the region or sub-region, which will then make it more attractive to other firms to locate there. It’s the magnet effect that is so important here.

The second point I’d like to ask the Cabinet Secretary to respond to is that, yes, of course he does have responsibilities for ensuring that public money is spent wisely, but cultural and linguistic benefits themselves have a value beyond purely pounds and pence. And we know how important this project will be to the succouring of the Welsh language, and for the impact that it will have more widely than in the region itself. So, whilst I don’t expect him to give a substantive answer today, because he has to discuss with his colleagues and others to consider the matter in the round, but at least he should lean in favour of being sympathetic to this proposal, and not take a flinty, Thatcherite approach to it.

The Member can rest assured that I will not a take a flinty and Thatcherite approach to this project, and against his best efforts, I will not be giving an indication of a decision that may be made within the next 10 days. But the Member is right to say that there are historic structural challenges that need to be overcome, not just in west Wales but in other parts of Wales where we need to see an improvement in gross value added and productivity, and in the levels of skills that are acquired by people. For that reason, I applaud the Minister for Skills and Science today for launching the new apprenticeship programme to create 100,000—as a minimum—all-age quality apprenticeships, which, of course, will come of great benefit to parts of Wales such as Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire, where there are shared apprenticeship programmes being utilised by many people, and where I know there are a number of employers who are currently looking at taking on more apprentices. The key in growing a regional economy is in having agglomeration and proper skills provision, and I’ve been very keen, in scrutinising this particular project, to be sure that the partners that have expressed an interest in going to Yr Egin really will make good on that interest, and that we will see a concentration, within the hub, of creative industries experts who can offer the job opportunities that are promised.

That was exactly the point, Minister. What we want to see in west Wales is investment and a prosperous future for our young people, so that the children currently going to Llangennech school to get a Welsh-medium education will know that there are also good jobs available for them in west Wales. We want to see from Government the same kind of flexibility towards funding this project as you have shown towards funding and dealing with the Circuit of Wales proposal in Blaenau Gwent. There is a fiscal approach that you could take, and you’ve just confirmed that you could review this scheme to reprofile the financial investment so that the risk to the taxpayer is as low as possible, whilst still allowing the project to progress. Will you confirm two things therefore? First of all, will you confirm that the advice that you’ve received from the creative industries sector panel, in your view, is entirely unbiased advice? You said that the advice was given in good faith, and I accept that, but I would like to hear from you on the record that you accept that it is totally unbiased.

The second question, I think it was last week or the week before that you discussed with a number of Assembly Members the city deal for the Swansea bay region. That was during a meeting with a number of us, and I was grateful for that, and the Egin was discussed at that meeting in the context of a wider package. You were eager that we as Assembly Members would argue for the whole package and would not, in your words, ‘cherry-pick’ different elements of it. Likewise, will you accept that the city deal package includes Yr Egin, and therefore I very much hope that, next week, once you have carried out the necessary due diligence of any such scheme, you will support the scheme so that the city deal as a wider package is also supported by the Westminster Government.

Can I thank the Member for his questions and say that I am, again, as I mentioned last week, pleased that SA1 and phase 2 of the Yr Egin project have both secured the support of the city region board for development?

In terms of providing opportunities, particularly for young people, the creative industries sector has proven to be more successful in Wales in terms of its growth and in terms of expanding opportunities for young people than in any other part of the UK except for London. That’s because we have grown an enviable industry in Wales. We have also grown the skills and the expertise required to attract major television drama productions. But I’m determined to make sure that we don’t rest on our laurels and that we continue to introduce more people to the creative industries in order to meet demand. It’s actually demand that is a problem for us at the moment, given the interest from tv producers in particular, notwithstanding the presence and the interest that film producers are showing in Wales, but particularly with regard to tv drama, and increasingly with regard to animation. There will be more opportunities for people to enter into the industry. There will be more opportunities for people to reskill in order to get into the industry. So, I’m determined to make sure that, as we scrutinise the Yr Egin project, we are confident that it will deliver those opportunities.

In terms of the advice that came from the creative industries panel, as I said to Eluned Morgan, I am confident that it was provided in good faith. That said, I don’t think that speculation regarding any conflicts of interest is helpful whatsoever. What is important is that I, and we as a Welsh Government, consider all evidence, rigorously scrutinise the proposals, and then reach a decision on the basis of what is best for the people of Carmarthen and the industry.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.