Group 1 is the landfill disposals tax communities scheme. The lead amendment in this group is amendment 2, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary to move and speak to the lead amendment and the other amendments in the group. Cabinet Secretary.

Amendment 2 (Mark Drakeford) moved.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. Since this is my first contribution to today’s proceedings, I’d like to make a few general remarks. Our aim in this Bill has been to build on the administrative framework that was established by the Tax Collection and Management (Wales) Act 2016. We do that by setting out the operational framework for introducing landfill disposal tax in Wales, which will replace landfill tax in April next year.

I believe it to be common ground amongst us all that we should establish a replacement tax on disposals to landfill made in Wales that can be managed and collected efficiently and effectively in Wales. That will need to happen within a tax system that protects revenue and that is also clear, open and fair for the taxpayer.

I would like to thank all Members of the Assembly, particularly the members of the Finance Committee and the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee for their scrutiny of the Bill to date. This has been an extremely valuable contribution to helping to shape this tax legislation.

I’m also very grateful to those who have been willing to engage with us and contribute to our thinking as we develop the landfill disposals tax legislation. Throughout this process, I think it’s fair to say that the Welsh Government has listened to the views of stakeholders and Members. I was pleased to be able to accept almost all of the committee’s recommendations, and where necessary, I brought forward Stage 2 Government amendments to address the issues raised.

Wedi dweud hynny, Dirprwy Lywydd, byddaf yn troi at y gwelliannau penodol yng ngrŵp 1. Hoffwn i gynnig a siarad am ddau welliant y Llywodraeth yn y grŵp hwn, a hefyd roi sylw i welliant 52 Nick Ramsay.

Mae dau welliant y Llywodraeth yn y grŵp hwn yn gymharol dechnegol, ac mae eu hangen i adlewyrchu newidiadau a gytunwyd yn nhrafodion Cyfnod 2. Mae bob amser wedi bod yn fwriad y Llywodraeth i gynnig cynllun cymunedau fel rhan o dreth gwarediadau tirlenwi. Argymhellodd adroddiad Cyfnod 1 y Pwyllgor Cyllid bod cyfeiriad at y cynllun yn cael ei roi ar wyneb y Bil. Cyflwynodd y Llywodraeth welliant mewn ymateb i'r argymhelliad hwnnw, a chafodd y gwelliant hwnnw ei gefnogi yng Nghyfnod 2, ac, ar 13 Mehefin, cyhoeddwyd memorandwm esboniadol wedi’i ddiweddaru ac asesiad effaith rheoleiddiol, yn cynnwys manylion am y cynllun cymunedau.

Heddiw, mae gwelliant 2 yn adlewyrchu’r datblygiad hwnnw drwy ychwanegu cyfeiriad at y cynllun cymunedau i mewn i adran drosolwg y Bil. Mae angen gwelliant 32 hefyd i sicrhau cysondeb arddull drafftio ar draws y Bil, a gofynnaf i Aelodau gefnogi dau welliant y Llywodraeth yn y grŵp hwn.

Bydd yn rhaid i mi ragweld ychydig o'r hyn yr wyf yn credu y gallai Nick Ramsay fod ar fin ei ddweud, ar ôl clywed ei gyfraniadau yng Nghyfnod 2, ac mae ei welliant, fel y bydd Aelodau yn gweld, yn anelu at roi mwy o fanylion am y cynllun ar wyneb y Bil. Rwyf am fod yn glir y prynhawn yma nad oes gennyf unrhyw wrthwynebiad i'r syniadau a grynhowyd yn y gwelliant hwnnw. Maent yn gyson iawn â'r trafodaethau a gynhaliwyd eisoes yn y pwyllgor ar fanylion y cynllun. Fy rheswm dros beidio â gofyn i'r Aelodau gefnogi gwelliant 52 yw oherwydd fy mod yn awyddus i aros yn gyson gydag ymrwymiad a wnes yng Nghyfnod 2, a ailddatganwyd gennyf mewn llythyr at Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyllid ar 5 Mehefin, sef ymrwymiad i barhau i weithio gyda'r Pwyllgor Cyllid wrth ddatblygu manylion y cynllun.

Mae briff wedi cael ei gynnig i'r pwyllgor, ar ôl toriad yr haf, i'r Aelodau gael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf. Bydd y briff hwnnw yn cynnwys manylion am yr ymarfer caffael ar gyfer y corff dosbarthol ar gyfer y cynllun, ac mae’r ymarferiad caffael hwnnw eisoes wedi dechrau. Rwy’n credu ei bod yn bwysig caniatáu i gyrff dosbarthol posibl ddod â'u barn at y bwrdd o ran sut y byddent yn rheoli'r broses ddyfarnu grantiau ac asesu ceisiadau unigol.

Gallai gwelliant 52 Nick Ramsay, er ei fod yn gyfraniad defnyddiol iawn at y drafodaeth honno, gael canlyniad anfwriadol o gyfyngu ar eu cyfraniadau, pe bai'n cael ei basio yn y cam hwn. Er fy mod i'n awyddus iawn i roi ymrwymiad y prynhawn yma y bydd sylwedd gwelliant 52 yn ffurfio rhan o'r drafodaeth barhaus ar fanylion y cynllun cymunedol, rwy’n gobeithio na fydd yr Aelodau'n cyfyngu ei ddatblygiad drwy osod y gwelliant hwn ar wyneb y Bil y prynhawn yma.

Can I firstly, Cabinet Secretary, welcome the introduction of Stage 3 of the Landfill Disposals Tax (Wales) Bill? We’ve spent a long time talking about how historic the introduction of LTT was as the first Welsh tax in so many hundreds of years, and this is clearly also historic—the second, and I suppose the Buzz Aldrin to the Neil Armstrong, if you were looking for a space analogy, which you might be, but, of course, you might not be. I can see that Mike Hedges liked that analogy anyway. The Finance Committee has welcomed your close co-operation during the previous stages and, indeed, working with your officials. I’ve had a number of meetings with your officials and yourself—and support staff of the Welsh Conservative group have as well—and that’s been very beneficial. We know that this tax, like LTT, is essential in that, in April 2018, its UK equivalent, which we’ve been operating under to date, and up until April next year, will be switched off. So, there’s no doubt at all that this tax is needed.

Turning to group 1 and the communities scheme, which you rightly say is very important, we will be supporting the lead amendment in the group and, indeed, the second Government amendment as well. But turning to the more controversial amendment—our amendment 52—which you did pay credence to, I recognise that you do think that there are good things within that amendment. You were quite right to say that we did have a fair amount of discussion about this at Stage 2, at the committee stage, and the views that I expressed at that point for placing this on the face of the Bill do remain. I believe that amendment 2 narrows the criteria for applications down slightly on the Bill’s face. There’s no mention of the eligibility criteria themselves on the face of the Bill. Although this will be a scheme separate to the traditional Landfill Communities Fund applied in England and Scotland, which is based on vouchers, there is the need to narrow down the criteria, I feel, for eligibility, which are based in existing legislation and which would guide the committee’s work on the scheme. Currently, Scotland has the Scottish Landfill Communities Fund, which has a number of detailed points about eligibility to the fund, which are outlined under Part 7 of the Scottish Landfill Tax (Administration) Regulations 2015, including protection of the environment, community-based recycling, reuse and waste prevention projects and conservation projects. This amendment also clarifies the position of local bodies when applying for a grant under the landfill communities scheme. Furthermore, when looking at the provision of grants and the ability of smaller local charities to bid, it’s essential that clear guidance is available so that they have an equal playing field. For example, Community Foundation in Wales has provided accessible guidance for organisations, including their financial information and a project description.

As I say, we did have a fair discussion about this at Stage 2, Cabinet Secretary, and I do appreciate your reasons for not wanting your hands tied, as you put it, by putting this on the face of the Bill. I do, however, still believe that it useful for us to have an amendment in this place at Stage 3 so that, firstly, you can make your points forcibly, which you have done, and which I’m sure many Members will agree with, but also so that we can set out our reasons for wanting this information clarified as soon as possible. One way of doing that would be by placing it on the face of the Bill, so I would still like to proceed with this amendment, although I do fully understand the Cabinet Secretary’s reasons for opposing it. If this amendment does fall, then hopefully the Finance Committee can continue with the process of working with you to develop a reasonable, acceptable and sustainable alternative.

Very briefly, just to say that we, on these benches, are very supportive of the principle underpinning amendment 52 in the name of Nick Ramsay, namely to ensure that a communities fund works for the benefit of communities, but, on this occasion, we will abstain on the vote because we do think it’s important that we keep the Cabinet Secretary to his word that he wants to collaborate with the committee before the summer and to bring the relevant organisations at a community level into the negotiations as to how we can take forward the community fund for the future. We have nothing against the principle underpinning Nick Ramsay’s amendment, but we didn’t want to limit, at this stage, what we could do in future with better negotiation between all the parties involved.

I just want to express my thanks as Chair of the Finance Committee on behalf of the whole of Finance Committee for the Cabinet Secretary’s willingness to work with us on this Bill. I do think that the Bill is improved by the scrutiny that it went through at committee stages, but I think there is an element of joint legislation in this Bill. As we look at the possibilities for new taxation and innovative taxation, and new ways of using the powers that we have, then I think the precedent underpinning this Bill and, to be fair, the previous Bill that related to land transaction taxes, is a precedent that we hope that not just the current Cabinet Secretary, but Cabinet Secretaries of any Government of any party would wish to take forward jointly with this Assembly, as we develop into a Parliament.

The Cabinet Secretary said that he had accepted all of our recommendations in one way or another. That is true, and it’s good to see that evidence gathering, discussing that evidence and bringing the evidence forward is a means of persuading the Government to look anew at their Bill. Having said that, it wasn’t a particularly poor Bill initially, and we need to be clear about that. We have scrutinised it, and we have noted a few things that were missing and a few things that were erroneous, and in the context, particularly, of these amendments, something that hadn’t been included in the initial phase. But in bringing persuasion to bear on the Cabinet Secretary, there is a specific commitment in the Bill as it is taken forward that there is to be a landfill disposals tax communities scheme, and that’s very positive for those communities affected by landfill sites or waste transfer sites, which can be a blight on certain communities.

As Steffan Lewis has just outlined, we’re not quite willing to accept the amendment in the name of Nick Ramsay as a party at the moment. I think the principles underpinning the amendment are important guidance, and I would want to see the Finance Committee taking those things forward to steer the discussion between ourselves and the Cabinet Secretary.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thanks to those Members who’ve spoken of their indications of support for the Government amendments in this group.

Nick Ramsay described his amendment 52 as a controversial amendment, and I just want to be clear again that it is not the content of the amendment that is controversial.

Nid ydw i ddim yn erbyn yr egwyddorion y tu ôl i’r gwelliannau o gwbl. Y broblem yw gyda’r amserlen.

The problem is just one of timing. As Nick Ramsay said, his amendment aims to narrow down criteria and flesh out detail, and the Government’s view is that we will come to a point where that will be necessary, but I want to do it in consultation with the Finance Committee, and in taking a wider range of views, which are still to be gathered in relation to the detail of the scheme.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I’m very happy to say again to Nick Ramsay that, if his amendment were to fall this afternoon, then the content of it, as well as the general willingness to go on shaping the scheme together, will certainly form part of the discussions that I want to go on having with members of the Finance Committee as this scheme is brought to fruition.

The question is that amendment 2 be agreed. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, amendment 2 is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Amendment 2 agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.