Group 8. Mental health detention (Amendments 62, 63)

– in the Senedd at 6:11 pm on 21 November 2017.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:11, 21 November 2017

(Translated)

The next group of amendments is the group relating to mental health detention. Amendment 62 is the lead amendment i n this group. I call on Darren Millar to move and speak to the lead amendment and the other amendments in the group—Darren Millar.

(Translated)

Amendment 62 (Darren Millar, supported by Llyr Gruffydd) moved.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 6:12, 21 November 2017

Diolch, Llywydd. I rise to move amendment 62 and to speak to amendment 63, both tabled in my name. During the debate at Stage 2, I raised concerns over the potential implications of section 42 of the Bill, which relates to children and young people in detention. Section 42 allows for the cessation of the duties that the Bill places upon schools, colleges and local authorities to prepare individual development plans and to maintain them when young people are subject to detention orders.

The section is designed to apply to those detained for criminal justice reasons, but, during Stage 2, it was clear that not much consideration had been given to those detained for mental health purposes. Following the suspension of Stage 2 proceedings, the former portfolio holder agreed to consider the issue further and to work with me, if necessary, to address this issue.

Now, clearly, there are circumstances in which children and young people with additional learning needs who are subject to detention under the mental health Act may still require additional learning need provision during the period of their detention in a mental health unit. In fact, members of the Children, Young People and Education Committee recently visited child and adolescent mental health services units in Wales where there were education units embedded within those CAMHS units. It's easy to appreciate that there may be times when a young person goes into one of those units and needs some additional learning provision. So, these are the sorts of settings in which additional learning provision should rightly continue to be provided to those who're in receipt of support, prior to their detention.

I'm very grateful, Cabinet Secretary, for the engagement that I've had with your office and with Government officials, which has resulted in the tabling of amendment 62. I've been very happy to engage and been pleased with the support that they've given with drafting.

So, the amendment seeks to provide for regulation-making powers to enable Welsh Ministers to apply duties to ensure that children and young people with additional learning needs who are detained as a result of poor mental health do continue to get those bits of support that they require.

Amendment 63 is consequential to amendment 62, but 62 is the very important one, and I urge all Members to support both amendments.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:14, 21 November 2017

(Translated)

I call on the Cabinet Secretary.

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

I fully support these amendments. And, may I say, Presiding Officer, they're an excellent example of the valuable scrutiny undertaken in this place, including the expertise of its subject committees, and how this scrutiny serves to improve the legislation of this National Assembly for Wales?

As we have heard, the amendments relate to an issue raised by Darren Millar during Stage 2 committee. It is an important point that was raised, and I'm glad that he did it and that we have been able to work together to find a solution.

I have written to the Children, Young People and Education Committee with an explanation of how the Bill applies where children and young people are detained under the Mental Health Act 1983. In short, for children and young people civilly detained under the 1983 Act, the Bill applies in the same way as it generally applies, and my letter dealt in more detail with the consequences of this.

But that is not the case in respect of detentions under that Act for those within the criminal justice system, and amendment 62 is to address this. It gives a regulation power to apply to local authorities and governing body duties in the Bill that would otherwise be switched off in respect of children and young people subject to a detention order and detained in hospital under Part 3 of the 1983 Act, and it may apply the duties with or without modification.

Amendment 63 applies the affirmative procedure to such regulations. The amendments will allow for the duties in the Bill to be applied appropriately in respect of children and young people who are detained in hospital under Part 3 of the Mental Health Act 1983. This is a complicated area that needs very careful consideration. Having a regulation-making power will enable that consideration to take place and for suitable provision to be made. I am completely satisfied that Darren Millar's amendment is needed and puts us in a good position, and I would urge fellow Members to support it.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 6:16, 21 November 2017

I'm very grateful for the Cabinet Secretary's remarks. I think it is important that this issue is addressed and that's why I've been prepared to work with the Government to do so in a way which allows for further consideration of the matter through more scrutiny, if you like, to ensure that these important issues are addressed. I very much hope the Members will support the amendments.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

If amendment 62 is not agreed to, amendment 63 falls. So, the question is that amendment 62 be agreed to. Does any Member object? Amendment 62 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 6:17, 21 November 2017

(Translated)

Darren Millar, amendment 61.

(Translated)

Amendment 61 (Darren Millar, supported by Llyr Gruffydd) moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The question is that amendment 61 be agreed to. Does any Member object? Amendment 61 is agreed.

(Translated)

Amendment agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.