Can I welcome this petition, 'Port Talbot Community Against the Super Prison', and it's 8,791 signatories? It is a happy coincidence of the timetabling in this place that the debate before this was about citizen participation, elegantly espoused by my old friend David Melding there, and we all nodded sagely and everybody was in total agreement, what a happy and healthy place it would be if all citizens partook in the democratic process and were valued for their contribution. So here we are, stage 1: let's see if we value the contribution of the citizens of Port Talbot, then, shall we? Because we've rehearsed the arguments against building a superprison in Baglan here in the Assembly several times this year in questions already, and we had a Plaid Cymru debate, as we've already alluded to, in September. The vote was lost. The Plaid Cymru motion was asking us to vote to stop the superprison. Only nine Assembly Members here voted to stop the superprison.

Now, many people have said to me, 'Don't have a prison'. Nobody has said to me, 'A superprison in Baglan? What a great idea.' Nobody has said that to me. There is public clamour locally for the tidal lagoon. There is still public clamour for electrification of the main railway to Swansea. But a superprison in Baglan—public clamour came there none. I hope we're not being offered this prison instead of a tidal lagoon, or instead of electrification, but let's not hold our breath.

Welsh Government owns the land in the Port Talbot enterprise zone, as has already been alluded to by David Rees, Bethan and others. That's the land that's been earmarked for this superprison. Why does Welsh Government not simply refuse to sell the land to the Ministry of Justice? Job done.

We know prisons, courts, justice and probation are not devolved to us in Wales. That’s why London can come along and say, 'We'll have a superprison in Baglan', because we had no inkling that was happening. It's not devolved to us; why should it involve us? Because justice is not devolved.

However, the money, as Vaughan Gething, the Cabinet Secretary, told us in budget scrutiny in the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee a couple of weeks ago, the money that comes with prisons does not compensate for the expense of local health service provision, social services, mental health provision, local government provision and all the rest. It is inadequately funded by the Home Office, the current prison provision, in terms of the devolved services that have to be there to back up the situation as regards prisoners re-offending, as David Rees mentioned earlier. Those extra services are not funded adequately, and that comes from the Cabinet Secretary for health's own mouth. 

So, we've had an elegant disposition on the power of citizen participation—[Interruption.] Oh, the very embodiment of the same.