7. Will the First Minister make a statement on the impact of the roll-out of universal credit in Wales? OAQ51608

I'm extremely concerned about the severe issues with universal credit, such as the impact of the changes to payment of housing support, and the impact they're having on rent arrears. We have expressed our concerns to the UK Government, calling for a halt to the roll-out of universal credit.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. Disabled people and single parents and women have been amongst the biggest losers under seven years of austerity, according to the Equality and Human Rights Commission, standing to lose around 10 per cent of their income by 2022 due to tax and benefit changes since 2010. The roll-out of the flawed universal credit, with its unacceptable payment delays, as you've said, has pushed many people into debt, rent arrears and eviction. Of course, the Member for Torfaen, Lynne Neagle, has fed back on the Torfaen experience. Also, young people aged 18 to 21 have also lost out under universal credit, with housing benefit withdrawn. I don't know if Members are aware that the Children's Society has highlighted the UK Government's proposals to introduce an earnings threshold for eligibility to free school meals under universal credit, restricting free school meals to families with net earnings under £7,400 per year. With universal credit expected to be fully rolled out this year in the Vale of Glamorgan and other parts of Wales, what support is the Welsh Government giving to our advice services, such as Cardiff and Vale Citizens Advice, which will be bearing the brunt of supporting people adversely affected by universal credit?

We have provided £5.97 million of grant funding for this year. That funding will continue in the next financial year. It's for three projects: front-line advice services, Better Advice, Better Lives, and Communities First shared outcomes projects. They ensure access to free and independent social welfare advice across Wales and, as I said, that will continue into the next financial year.

In his budget last November, the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced changes to the universal credit system. These include the removal of the seven waiting days before a claimant can apply for universal credit, significant improvement to the advanced payment system, including increasing the amount available, and changes to support people with their rent payments when moving from housing benefit. Does the First Minister agree with the chief executive of the Citizens Advice bureaux who said that these changes are a very welcome step and will make significant differences to people claiming universal credit in Wales?

Well, it shouldn't have been messed up in the first place, should it? That's an admission that what was put in place at the very beginning wasn't thought through properly and ended up with a lot of people in debt. We still have evidence from housing associations to Citizens Advice that shows that rent arrears are still a problem for people on universal credit. There are other issues as well that surround the implementation of universal credit, such a lack of awareness concerning alternative payment arrangements and access to advance payments. So, those problems still remain.  

First Minister, the Scottish Government, as part of the Smith Commission, will see yet again more powers over welfare being devolved to their Government. In the past, your Government has said that you don't want to have powers over welfare because of the cost implications, but, as we've rehearsed time and time again in debates here in the National Assembly for Wales, we have been led to understand that the fiscal framework for those powers will be transferred to the Scottish Government, and therefore the cost of administrating those welfare benefits will be transferred, alongside the powers. Will you therefore change your mind on this? We can stand here and moan about how welfare will affect our citizens, and I agree with you on that, but can we take responsibility here in Wales for those welfare powers if we are better at doing it than Westminster?

Well, the answer to the question lies in the election of a Labour Government in Westminster that is committed to fairness, to social justice and to opportunity. We must be very careful in divorcing ourselves from the welfare system that exists across GB. Why? Because we’re net beneficiaries. At the end of the day, if we end up in the situation where we have to finance our own welfare system, we will be worse off in terms of the money that’s available.

I didn’t say that though.

So, we have to be careful not to move along that path and be in a position where we end up taking on powers that we then don’t have the money to finance. That’s the issue for us. We know that the UK Government has a record of agreeing to the transfer of powers without the transfer of the finances, and that’s the question we need to answer.