8. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the sustainability of current bus services in Wales? OAQ51635

We are working with the industry and others to develop long-term sustainability by developing integrated networks such as the metro in north and south Wales. We will look, when the powers are devolved, at a better and more sustainable structure for bus services in Wales.

My constituents are looking forward to the trams and the light rail systems that the metro will bring, but in the meantime people rely on buses to get themselves to work and to school. Cardiff Bus is the municipal bus service and they are being subjected to aggressive assaults by private companies that are simply cherry-picking the routes that are the most profitable. The Transport Act 1985 does not allow the cross-subsidy of one route by revenue from another, and I just wondered what the Government’s plans are for ensuring the sustainability of a network of sustainable services for all our citizens, particularly those who don’t have a car, and what model of delivery we need and what legislation we might need.

We cannot continue with a system where, unless services are subsidised, they can be altered or removed almost at the drop of a hat. I remember, not so long ago, in Ceredigion, where Arriva pulled out of the provision of bus services there at very short notice, and then it was left to other private operators to step in and fill the gap. That is not a sustainable way of running bus services. Nor is it right that, in many parts of Wales, there is only one provider, and that provider is a private provider that can charge, effectively, what it wants. This is another one of the myths that was peddled by the Tories in the 1980s and beyond: that, in transport, there can be competition. Well, for many people in Wales there is no competition when it comes to buses. There's certainly no competition when it comes to trains. People are paying over the odds for private monopolies. That situation cannot continue, and the Cabinet Secretary and I and the Government will be looking at ways of ensuring that, in the future, we have a bus network that is publicly supported both financially and by the people of Wales, and not one that is fragmented and overpriced.

First Minister, I’ve received comments from a local bus operator in Pembrokeshire who has expanded his business following the closure of another bus company in the county, but unfortunately the operator is having difficulty in upgrading his infrastructure. Of course, I accept that local authority budgets are tight, but given the important service that more and more bus companies are providing across Wales and the fact that they provide jobs locally, what assistance can the Welsh Government offer bus companies such as this one to safeguard their viability for the future and therefore secure the sustainability of bus services, particularly in rural areas?

How many companies have we seen over the years go to the wall? We’ve seen many. We must reconsider the structure of bus services. That means, for example, whether it's possible to have a system of franchises—it won’t work on a local government level; I think that would be too small—to ensure that the companies have to deliver the service at the price that was agreed and that that’s sustainable for years to come. We’ve got to move away from the system we have at present where, for the majority of the people of Wales, one company runs the services and they decide on which ones will work without any kind of input or permission from local people. That has to change. We must consider that there’s no competition in most parts of Wales. We’ll have to move to a kind of system that is much more sustainable and will ensure that we don’t see services just falling apart, very often, as we have seen over the past years.

Does the First Minister think that it's acceptable that there are no rush-hour buses from Wrexham industrial estate—one of the largest industrial estates in Europe—into Wrexham town centre? Thousands of workers are being left high and dry by a non-existent transport service. You either have to clock off early, or you have to hang around for an hour to catch the bus home. Now, you can talk as much as you like about your occasional bus summits. You can show us fancy maps about a so-called north Wales metro transport system, or, of course, you can tell us that you're serious about this. Is this acceptable? Because people are telling me it's not. I'm sure everybody here would believe it's not. Why is Wrexham suffering from sub-standard services in this respect? And why doesn't the largest industrial estate, or one of the largest industrial estates in Europe, not have what is a basic service?

Why doesn't he take it up with the councils? The councils are responsible for subsidising bus services. And he is right; do I think it's acceptable? [Interruption.] Do I think it's acceptable? No, I don't; I think he's right. But the reality is, as he knows full well, we don't have control over the buses yet. Now, there's no point pretending—[Interruption.] Not even the leader of the opposition knows that, apparently, based on the comment he's just given—that we don't have responsibility over the buses yet. I want to see, for the people of Wrexham and those who are commuting to Wrexham industrial estate, a proper, integrated, sustainable transport service, via the north-east Wales metro, using trains, using buses, to ensure that the situation that he's described—which is not acceptable—does not continue in the future as it has done, after 30 years of Tory transport misrule.

Thank you, First Minister.