Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

2. Questions to the Leader of the House and Chief Whip (in respect of her policy responsibilities) – in the Senedd at 2:42 pm on 18 April 2018.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:42, 18 April 2018

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you very much. And an invitation has been issued to your office to come to Arfon too, if I may say so.

During the past month, in a speech given in Oxford, the First Minister said that he will hold a review of the equality and gender policies of the Welsh Government, which will include, among other things, consideration of how to move gender to the forefront in making decisions, ensuring that economic development planning corresponds to the aims on gender and equality, and to make Wales the safest place to be a woman in the whole of Europe, which all sounds very laudable, but what are the details? When will this review commence? Who will be holding it? Will there be specific targets and specific outcomes, and what will the purpose of this review be?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:43, 18 April 2018

Well, the questions are very welcome and very timely. We've only just concluded the agreement of the terms of reference, which only this morning I placed in the Members' library, so they can be accessed by all Members as of today. So, the question is a very timely one. We're very pleased to have agreed the terms of reference. We will be having two initial stakeholder events, one on 26 April and one on 3 May, where we're getting all of the stakeholders who are active in this sphere together—one in south Wales and one in north Wales—to just try and get as many people as possible, and I have written out to all of the groups that we're aware of. If you know of any that haven't received anything from us, do encourage them to reply—we're not trying to only get to the people we know about—asking them, if they could only do one thing in the next three years in this space, what would it be, so that we can get a discussion going at the two stakeholder events around the priorities that people highlight. And then I'm very pleased to say that we will be looking to see what we can do rapidly, what we can do in the medium term and then what might take a little bit longer to achieve as part of this review, which I'm delighted to be doing. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 2:44, 18 April 2018

(Translated)

Thank you very much. I look forward to participating in that debate. In the context of the point made in the First Minister's speech in Oxford on making Wales the safest possible place to be a woman throughout the whole of Europe through legislation, you will be aware, of course, that that was one of the intentions underpinning the Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015, and I'm very pleased that there has been some progress now in light of issues that I have raised in this Chamber on implementing that particular piece of legislation. There is one persistent defect in terms of that legislation, namely healthy relationships education. Despite recent work by the task and finish group, it appears that we are still no nearer a resolution in this area. There’s been no mention of what is going to happen in terms of teaching the foundations of a healthy relationship, having discussions on what is acceptable behaviour and what isn’t acceptable, and so on and so forth. So, there’s been an opportunity missed with the legislation. I hope there’s an opportunity now, but I don’t see any progress being made. So, what’s holding things back in this area?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:45, 18 April 2018

So, the Member rightly identifies an issue that's been at the forefront of many of our minds for some time. My colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Education will shortly be making a statement on the teaching of—I can't remember exactly how it's put—sex and relationships education, effectively. That might not be the exact title, forgive me, but that's the gist of it. We've been building on the successful projects run by Hafan Cymru across many of the schools in Wales around healthy relationships teaching. I had the privilege of going to see a session in one of our Valleys primary schools, which was amazing. The difference in the group at the beginning of the session and at the end, and the young woman who was teaching it, was inspirational. So, we've been very much looking to see if we can build on that. But my colleague—I won't steal her thunder—the Cabinet Secretary will be making some announcements very soon.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 2:46, 18 April 2018

(Translated)

Well, I’m very pleased to hear that and it is about time if I may say so because education is crucial in tackling this particular problem.

Yesterday, some Members mentioned in the Chamber the review of sexual health services, which drew attention to the postcode lottery that exists in terms of abortion services in Wales. The review states that abortion services in Wales are inequitable and that this can lead to late abortions or for women to be in a situation where they have no choice but to go on with an unintended pregnancy. Now, clearly that isn’t an acceptable situation. Will this major review that you’re going to be conducting pursue this particular issue, given that the provision is very patchy at the moment? It is an issue that has to be dealt with if the comments made by the First Minister are going to be taken seriously, otherwise people are going to think that it was empty rhetoric or a tokenistic statement that was made ad hoc to the press in Oxford.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:48, 18 April 2018

One of the purposes of the review is to look at gender-focused policy right across the Welsh Government. So, that's one example you just gave there. There are many others around how and why services are as they are in Wales. One of the ones that I often quote is that you often see services for refuges, for example, grow up where a number of people tens of years ago got together and saw the need and then we've continued with that service rather than on a needs-based approach across Wales. Not that there's anything wrong with the services that are there, but I'm not absolutely convinced that we've got the coverage and that people have the same experience wherever they pitch up for those services, because of the way they grew up and the way that we—. So, that's part of the purpose of the review. So, you've highlighted another. There are other services—I've had endometriosis services highlighted to me, for example, and there are a number of others. So, yes, the purpose of the review is to look at policy across the Welsh Government and the availability of services and to focus on what might be done to improve that. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:49, 18 April 2018

(Translated)

The Conservative spokesperson, Mark Isherwood.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 2:48, 18 April 2018

Diolch, Llywydd. My questions relate to your responsibilities for equality and human rights. On Monday, I hosted and spoke at the Going for Gold Autistic Acceptance event in the Senedd. It was an autistic-led event, at which they, autistic adults—highly articulate and intelligent autistic adults—covered the areas of concern that they have, but also put forward ideas of how we can all work together co-productively, in their terms, to ensure that we begin to tackle the discrimination faced by autistic people

'that has become the norm rather than the exception'.

They particularly raised concern that awareness is not acceptance or equality, which is where your role comes into this, and yet there's growing concern that autism awareness training generally, and disability awareness training more broadly, across Wales is increasingly being led by non-disabled people who are professionals in medical or caring professions with a medical focus, which informs people about disabled people's impairments and ways of overcoming disability, whereas, as the sector says, autism equality training is always led by trainers who are disabled people, with a focus on disabled and non-disabled people working together to overcome the disabling barriers in society, recognising that removing physical, financial and attitudinal barriers will create a more inclusive, accessible society.

How, working with your colleagues, will you address the growing concerns within the autism community, and more broadly amongst disabled people in Wales, that this awareness training, is being provided without them or despite them on a medical model, rather than with them on a co-productive basis to tackle the barriers that they're encountering?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:51, 18 April 2018

That hasn't been raised with me directly, Mark Isherwood, and I'd welcome a longer conversation with you about where those concerns have been raised. I'm very happy to look at that. Very, very much our stated policy is that we have a co-production model; that we work with the communities that we are serving in order to make sure that the services that we provide are provided with them and with their input. So, I'm concerned to hear you say that and I'd very much welcome a conversation with you about where those concerns have been raised as they've not been raised directly with me.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

Well, thank you for that. I look forward to that conversation. Perhaps you could, in your answer, tell me whether you want me to contact you or your office to contact—

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour

I'll get my office to contact you.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour

I'll get my office to contact you.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 2:52, 18 April 2018

Thank you very much.

Well, on a similar subject, and, again, wearing your equalities hat, the Welsh Government publication early last month of its evaluation of the integrated autism service and autism spectrum disorder—a word I hope the Welsh Government has stopped using; it should be 'condition'—and strategic action plan interim report found weaknesses and inconsistencies in both assessment and diagnostic services for adults with autism and in support services for adults and children with autism, and said that although success requires a co-productive approach involving staff, service users and carers in the design, implementation and evaluation of the service,

'There are concerns that the “top down” approach…has stifled this'

Again, from Monday's event, and more broadly, the community feels that this is a breach of their equality and human rights. It's more than systems; it's more than services; it's a rights-based issue. Again, then, I hope that you will agree to consider this broadly and potentially in the meeting that you propose.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:53, 18 April 2018

Certainly. The services that you mentioned are not actually in my portfolio, but I'm more than happy to discuss with the Member how we can take that forward amongst a number of Cabinet Secretaries who are involved.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

And my final question, again, on a similar theme, I have—probably because I'm the chair of the cross-party autism group, I get a lot more approaches regarding this—an increasingly bulging case load of families where children, particularly girls, are being denied autism assessment and diagnosis because of the gender-based misconceptions about how autism presents itself. I've got an example here from the Inns of Court College of Advocacy, whose own guidelines say that females with autism may appear more sociable than their male counterparts. It's been suggested that women and girls with autism are better able to engage in social situations because they're likely to observe and copy others in their social skills and use of language. Such strategies may mask any difficulties that they have and make them appear to be more able than they actually are.

I have a growing number of cases, where health boards and schools are seeing the masking rather than the person, and more and more of these girls and their families—some of whose parents are on the spectrum as well—suffering serious anxiety problems, depression, absenteeism from school, falling behind and, nonetheless, having a belligerent and non-co-productive response from the statutory bodies to them and to me when I represent them. I know that this covers briefs that are not yours, but, again, these parents and, when I meet them, the children are telling me this is a breach of their human rights. And, again, I hope that you will confirm that you will give consideration to addressing these very real concerns because they're causing real damage to real lives.

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:54, 18 April 2018

I'm very aware of the issue about misconceived ideas of what a child who's on the autistic spectrum might present like. The Member, I know, is aware that I have a case in my own family, which I very much have in the forefront of my mind.

I'm more than happy, as part of our discussion, to include my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Health, who is responsible for most of the services, and I think some of them are probably education services as well. So, if we have that conversation, I'm more than happy to take that forward.

I'd just like to reiterate that I've not had those concerns raised directly with me, but I'm more than happy to take them up.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:55, 18 April 2018

(Translated)

The UKIP spokesperson, David Rowlands.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP

Diolch, Llywydd. By sheer coincidence, my question somewhat follows on from some issues raised by Sian Gwenllian earlier on.

In April 2015, the Welsh Assembly passed the Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Act 2015. This was a laudable piece of legislation designed to protect, in particular, female victims of domestic abuse. As with any piece of legislation, it is incumbent on us after a period of time to question its effectiveness. Does the leader of the house believe the Act is achieving its goals?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:56, 18 April 2018

It's still early days for the Act, obviously; we've only just put the new national advisers in place. I've had several extremely helpful and constructive meetings with them, including a half-day meeting with them where we discussed the range of services that currently exist in Wales and what needs to be done to get them to work in a more collaborative fashion. I had the real privilege just this week of attending the launch of the Seren Môr Consortium in Western Bay, which is embracing that collaborative approach as a result of our new national guidance. So, I think the Act is very much coming into its own.

We had a slow start, as Sian Gwenllian alluded to, but I think we're very much there now. We're about to put out our sustainable funding guidance as well. So, I think the Act is one that we can very much be proud of, and is just starting to make the difference that we expect and want it to make.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP 2:57, 18 April 2018

I thank the leader of the house for her comprehensive answer, but the figures with regard to sexual violence and domestic abuse do not make good reading. In March 2017, data showed a 23 per cent increase in this form of crime over the previous three years. Even given the fact that people are more readily reporting such incidents, it still shows worrying trends. However, what is far more worrying is the lack of funding for interventions once a victim has taken the often courageous step of leaving the home where domestic abuse has been perpetrated, sometimes over many years. Figures show that 47 per cent of such victims were turned away from refuges due to lack of accommodation. Given that these refuges play a vital role in helping people to get away from domestic violence, does the leader of the house feel funding is adequate?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:58, 18 April 2018

Would that it were adequate. As my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Finance said earlier on in response to a question, this is the result of many years of Conservative Government austerity. We have less and less money year on year. We have less and less money. There are no easy choices. We are not ever cutting something that doesn't work. All of these services are vital. We are not in any—. I cannot say that the funding is adequate, as it quite clearly isn't, and, after the large number of cuts that we've sustained year on year, it's no surprise.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP

Well, again, I thank the leader of the house for her answer, but the stark fact is that agencies such as the Domestic Abuse Safety Unit and Welsh Women's Aid state that far from funding being adequate to fund extra refuges, they are now fearful that some refuges will have to close. Is, therefore, moving funding from these projects to local authorities a sensible alternative, given the possibility of top-slicing this vital source for administration costs?

Photo of Julie James Julie James Labour 2:59, 18 April 2018

Okay, that's not what we're doing; we're not moving the funding to local authorities. What we're doing is that we have a co-ordinated regional approach to funding these services. As I said in a previous answer, this is about ensuring that services are provided properly and adequately across all of Wales, to all of the women of Wales and don't depend on a postcode lottery of any description. So, we will be doing, as part of our rapid review, an analysis of why and where those services are, and whether they're adequate to their task.

We are also looking to make sure that we cover off all the other issues as well. So, it is an issue about survivors, there is an issue about the protection of people who are fleeing immediate domestic violence, but there's a huge issue around training, around prevention, and around perpetrator issues as well, which also have to be addressed as part of this agenda. So, we've had 70,000 people so far who've taken our awareness-raising e-learning, and we're rolling out our 'ask and act' training for front-line professionals. I was very privileged to visit the fire service recently, who are the first White Ribbon fire service in the UK, and to see for myself their 'ask and act' training for all of their front-line professionals, because prevention is the real answer to this, although I absolutely accept that we must provide services for people in immediate danger of harm as well.