The next item, therefore, is the debate on the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee report, 'Work it out: parenting and employment in Wales', and I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion. John Griffiths.

Motion NDM6798 John Griffiths

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee, 'Work it out: parenting and employment in Wales', which was laid in the Table Office on 16 July 2018.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm pleased to open today’s debate on the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee report, 'Work it out: parenting and employment in Wales'. I would like to start by thanking all those who contributed to our inquiry, either by giving written or oral evidence, and in particular, those who shared their personal experiences of workplace discrimination.

We were able to hear these voices directly, through our online forum, focus groups, and from those who shared their stories with renowned social influencer and campaigner for flexible working, Anna Whitehouse, who gave evidence to the committee. It is important to hear the lived experiences of people, and this evidence really enriched our understanding.

In 2016, a survey by the Equality and Human Rights Commission found widespread evidence of workplace discrimination towards pregnant women and parents. It found that up to 54,000 women in Britain lose their jobs every year—[Interruption.]. Apologies, Llywydd. And, of course, all of those job losses are an individual tragedy for the people affected and, indeed, their families. And looking at the totality it's a great loss to the economy. 

In March, Llywydd, the First Minister announced his intention to make Wales a world leader in gender equality. We believe our recommendations and conclusions cover critical issues that need to be addressed to achieve this aim. Preventing a large proportion of the population from contributing their skills and experience to the workforce is not fair and does not make economic sense. Research has shown that equality for women could grow the UK economy by up to 10 per cent. While employment law is not devolved, there are still plenty of tools available to the Welsh Government, as acknowledged in its response to our report. 

Flexible working is key to reducing the gender pay gap. We heard compelling evidence from a range of witnesses on the importance of offering it to workers. Yet, unfortunately, in Wales, we have the lowest proportion of employers making it available out of the home nations. It is encouraging to see the Welsh Government accepting all but one of our recommendations on these particular matters. And also that the Welsh Government, as an employer, already advertises all jobs as flexible by default. We believe that this practice should be adopted by Welsh public authorities and welcome the Government’s commitment to take this forward.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

It is very important that when people are looking for employment they know flexible working is an option and that it is explicit in the job advert and description. In fact, it would be good to include a similar strapline to the Scottish Government's 'happy to talk flexible working' for all Welsh Government job adverts, and it would be useful to have more information on how the Welsh Government will encourage other public sector organisations to follow its example.

We heard about particular challenges facing teachers. Recommendations 5, 6 and 7 call for greater flexibility to be offered to them. We are heartened by the Government’s response, but would welcome further clarification on when the relevant recruitment guidance will be reviewed and updated.

While we are seeing encouraging signs in the public sector, the majority of people work in private enterprise, so we need to change attitudes to and opportunities for flexible working in this sector also and there are a number of levers available to Welsh Government to influence such change, primarily through the economic action plan and the economic contract, procurement, and the advice and support offered by Business Wales.

If the Welsh Government is to meet the ambition for Wales to be a world leader in gender equality, it has to work harder to ensure flexible working is available across the private sector. Our evidence showed that, with creative thinking and good leadership, it can work in all types of workplaces, including factories like Ford Bridgend Engine Plant. We therefore made a number of relevant recommendations, and I think it is here that the response is rather weak. Recommendation 9 calls for the Welsh Government to require businesses accessing their financial support to offer flexible working and to make this a key requirement of the economic contract. This is accepted in principle, but we would like a stronger commitment to ensure that companies receiving economic support are actually offering flexible working.

The Welsh Government places a lot of emphasis on the work of the Fair Work Commission, both in relation to this recommendation and others. We would like a commitment to provide a further response to the relevant recommendations after the commission has reported. We heard Business Wales has a vital role in providing support and advice to the private sector but that it is currently falling short, and positive change could easily be achieved.

Recommendations 4 and 23, which call for Business Wales to provide specialist advice to employers on how to deal with flexible working requests, and for support to include advice and assistance on gender neutral recruitment, are accepted, but we think there should be a clear commitment to review how Business Wales provides this advice and support. The evidence suggests that this review is needed now.

The other side of the same coin is the importance of parents and prospective parents having access to good quality and accurate advice about their rights and their employers' obligations. This is another area where we feel much more can be done. Maternity Action run a UK-wide advice line, which is heavily over-subscribed. They told us that they can only answer one in five calls. This was reflected in the evidence we heard from individuals trying to access specialist advice and support. Therefore, recommendation 28 calls for the Government to take action to increase the provision of specialist advice on parenting and employment issues. In accepting the recommendation, the Government states that Business Wales provide advice and that the Government will consider the provision of employment-related advice after the Fair Work Commission has reported, but we are not referring in this recommendation to advice to employers but to employees, and we do not believe that this needs to wait on the Fair Work Commission. We would ask for further consideration to be given to this important issue now. However, it is encouraging to see that the Welsh Government is taking steps to address the issues around the quality of careers advice for parents returning to work. We are pleased to see the commitment to ask Careers Wales to take account of returning parents in the development of the employment advice gateway. We hope that those who will be providing people with careers support will have expertise in issues relating to parenting and work.

Of course, underlying all of these matters are entrenched cultural ideas about women and parenting, creating a huge barrier to changing legislation and Government priorities because of that underlying reality that requires change in wider society and support for necessary change, whether it's through legislation or strategy and policy. We know we will only eradicate discrimination on the basis of maternity or pregnancy when unpaid care is no longer seen as solely women's responsibility. These matters were raised repeatedly. We heard about people being discriminated against at recruitment and promotion stages because they were women and might require maternity leave at some point in the future. And, of course, this can cut both ways, with entrenched attitudes about gender roles preventing men from being able to take on childcare responsibilities when they wish to do so. 

Everyone has a role to play in challenging these stereotypes that hold back both women and men, but the best approach is to stop these ideas becoming the norm in the first place, and the best tool for that is education. So, I am pleased that recommendation 22, calling for gender roles and parenting to be included in the new sex and relationships education, is accepted.                        

As part of our scrutiny, we considered the Welsh Government’s childcare offer, and made recommendations 13 to 15. The Government only accepted one of these in principle, and rejected the other two. These issues, of course, were aired in the Chamber last week when the legislation was debated, and I do not intend to repeat them, but, now the general principles have been agreed, we hope to see the Welsh Government continue to develop policies that will widen access to affordable childcare, as this is a vital tool in addressing gender inequality.

Finally, we concluded that better data is needed on the gender pay gap and maternity retention rates. We welcome the commitment in the response to publish employment and gender pay gap data to a single location, and we are pleased to see Government is going to give further detailed consideration to recommendation 24, where we called for maternity retention rates to be collected as part of the public sector equality duties.

More broadly, we welcome the review of these equality duties, which will also take account of reducing the administrative burden on the public sector. We would like clarity on timescales for this review and a commitment from the Welsh Government to update us on progress and decisions by the end of this year.

Dirprwy Lywydd, if Wales is to be a world leader on gender equality, making changes in relation to parenting and employment will go a significant way to help make this a reality. We cannot allow business as usual to continue. It’s time for the working world to adapt and change to take account of the changes in the way we live and work.

I now look forward to contributions from across the Chamber.

I'd like to thank the Chair—certainly, for my time whilst I was on that committee—the clerk and other committee members. This was a really interesting piece of work to do, and for me it was really good in that it brought together, whilst taking evidence, people from the private sector, the public sector and the voluntary sector. Our report did come up with 34 comprehensive recommendations, all intending to address some of the current issues surrounding job flexibility, maternity discrimination and gender bias within the scope of the Welsh Government's devolved responsibilities in the workplace.

In a devolved Wales, the Welsh Conservatives want to see our workplaces become world leaders in women's rights, gender equality—an ambition that I hope many in this Chamber would also wish to see. But, in order to achieve this, it does take ambition, innovation and aspiration. I'm very glad to see that the Welsh Government has accepted 30, in principle, out of 34 recommendations. Starting as early as recommendation 1, if put into practice, it will see the Welsh Government not only advertise all internal jobs as flexible by default, but will also provide guidance to public authorities—all public authorities across Wales—to do the same. Recommendation 4 sees the Government committing to encourage Business Wales to provide appropriate and specialist advice to employers about how to deal with flexible working requests effectively—an important step, given the void that was highlighted by many witnesses. As the report stipulates, flexible working does not just mean part-time. It includes any way of working that suits an employee's needs: job sharing, flexible start and finish times, term-time working and other initiatives. These improvements are going to give men and women the freedom of choice so that parents in Wales are able to work in a way that suits them and their family, while addressing current gender inequality. It will also have an improvement on gender equality in the workplace.

Importantly, I'm pleased to see that the Welsh Government will explore the potential for teaching posts to be advertised as flexible by default in the Governor's Guide to the Law, outlined in recommendation 6. This is increasingly important, as analysis by Policy Exchange suggested that schools should embrace flexible working to stop women dropping out of teaching permanently after maternity leave. This, again, will improve gender equality. Although teaching is seen as a women-dominated sector, only 33 per cent of secondary school headteachers are, in fact, women. With men still holding the most senior roles, allowing women to return to work on their terms will vastly improve gender equality in the sector without requiring women to sacrifice their families.

In the event that any parent is able to return to flexible work, care for children will undoubtedly be needed. Recommendation 14 calls on the Welsh Government to set out the further steps it will take to address the need for childcare for one- to three-year-olds. This recommendation, to support parents who want to return to the workplace sooner, was rejected. I was disappointed in that, given the amount of evidence we found where women want to actually return to work when the child is around one.

Now, the Minister made a statement today about how more and more local authorities will be implementing the current offer, and I'm pleased to see that my own authority, Conwy, will proceed to full authority from January 2019. But I still feel that you fail to address providing support from a younger age, despite the evidence received by our committee highlighting the need for this extended support. The response from the Welsh Government was that there is already plenty of support available to help parents with the cost of childcare, using universal credit as an example. Although Government-funded care is available between ages three to four for all, and available between ages two and three for some who are eligible, there currently is no Welsh Government-funded support before the age of two—a missed opportunity. Your Employment Settlement Service suggested that the childcare offer begin at nine months. The Women's Equality Network called for the offer to be available from six months. The Government has rejected these calls, and, for a party who committed to implementing healthcare and, more recently, education, from the cradle to the grave, it seems ironic that they are stopping children and families from receiving support when it is most needed, expecting parents to wait two or three years to receive this much-needed financial assistance. So, I would like to know what rationale still lies behind this decision to only support schemes between ages two to four.

Recommendation 15 called for the Welsh Government to reassess the offer, using various forms of evidence and information—again, rejected. The committee heard from Chwarae Teg, who emphasised that the Welsh Government should not be completely wedded to the current offer. Clearly, the First Minister and the Government are completely wedded to the terms of their current childcare offer and are not willing to change the scope of the offer when there is a clear outcry for it. In their response, the Welsh Government claim to understand the debate about the parameters of the offer, but clearly have no intention of addressing the issues brought up.

Overall, I am pleased with the response from the Welsh Government, but there is more for them to do. Please provide our returning parents with the childcare they need from the age of one.  

I am very pleased to be able to contribute to this debate on parenting and employment. My experience as a woman who brought up four children alone and the necessity to continue working during that period is a handy background, I believe. Taking part in the committee inquiry hasn’t been a pleasant experience, I must say, because we found that women are still facing prejudice, bias and discrimination at entirely unacceptable levels in the world of work today. It’s a cause of concern that some of the evidence that committee heard suggested that things are deteriorating rather than improving, with ACAS, for example, reporting an increase of 10 per cent in calls related to discrimination based on maternity and pregnancy.

One thing is very clear: being a mother leads to a financial penalty, creating inequality in relation to wages on the basis of gender, and that inequity refuses to budge. The wages of fathers, nevertheless, do not appear to be generally affected by raising children. There are practical steps that can be taken and the committee does note flexible working and childcare as two specific items to address. Those should go hand in hand with a culture change, and an enormous one, in order to create a far-reaching and complete change. And as the committee chair has noted, education has a prominent role to play in that, and I do look forward to seeing the new curriculum and how it works in relation to relationships and sex education.

The need for this cultural shift is very clearly seen when we discuss flexible working, which, of course, includes job sharing, and it is a subject that I have raised in this Chamber many times. In responding to the report, the Welsh Government states that they accept the principle of flexible working for their staff, but, in the committee, the Cabinet Secretary for the Economy and Transport told us that only a quarter of Government staff do work on the basis of flexible working. Now, that is not unique to the Government; it is likely to be true of organisations throughout Wales. But it is possible, perhaps, to do something in theory—that is, working flexibly in theory—but that does not translate into being something that happens on the ground.

Now, I am a strong believer that a Government needs to lead by example. Therefore, I would suggest that the Welsh Government should undertake a piece of work to find out why so few of their staff choose to work flexibly. What are the barriers to progressing and doing something that people have the right to do? What holds people back? And, therefore, trying to find some these barriers, which, more than likely, affect men as well as women—what are the obstacles that hold people back? Having found that information, perhaps we will be able to move to a position where flexible working is something that is a much more natural part of the Welsh workforce. And what about that proposal as a focus for the First Minister’s ambition to have a feminist Government? I see that 12 recommendations have been made on job sharing and part-time working in the senior civil service and I would like to hear a little more about how that work is being undertaken. Have these recommendations that have been made been accepted and are they fully implemented by now?

In the field of education, I’m disappointed that the Government does not believe that it can reform payments or allowances in relation to teaching and learning, for those to be shared by two or more members of staff. Now, the committee has noted that women in the teaching profession face many obstacles and I don’t understand the rationale for rejecting these recommendations. There was a recommendation for a reform of the payments, but what we hear from the Government is an explanation that the current system doesn’t allow them to do that. Well, that was the precise point of putting this recommendation forward—namely to create a change within the system.

I just wanted to turn, finally, to childcare, and the committee’s recommendations, which are intended to improve the childcare policy that the Government is currently introducing. Well, those recommendations have been rejected, and this is the second committee to come to similar views, but it appears that the Government is determined to stick to this deficient policy. Part of the reasoning that is offered for doing so is that a childcare offer was a crucial part of the Labour manifesto, and a central part of the programme for government. Well, in my view, rejecting a recommendation because of a manifesto commitment is not a sign of a mature approach towards scrutiny work, and there is substantial evidence by now that the Government’s policy is wrong. The view of experts is clear, the view of the children’s commissioner is clear, and yet the Government continues along a route that will create a childcare system that will not be fit for purpose.

I will end with that. Many of the committee’s recommendations have been accepted, and I do look forward to returning to this very important subject, and seeing great progress next time.

I welcome the report from the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee. I support all the recommendations, which do accord with my long-standing commitment to achieve fair play in the workforce in Wales. Indeed, it takes me back to my time as the first co-ordinator of Chwarae Teg, in the early 1990s, and many of the issues then are still with us today. But there is progress, and the opportunity now, through the Assembly, to bring this evidence together. I was also proud to play my role as a Minister in bringing in the specific equality duties, as laid out in the Equality Act 2010 (Statutory Duties) (Wales) Regulations 2011. And I have welcomed the phase 1 gender equality review. So, we now have a Welsh Government that can respond to this evidence, and these recommendations—a progressive Welsh Government to respond to the committee recommendations.

I particularly welcome the Welsh Government's response to recommendations 1, 2 and 3, relating to flexible working by default, and the recommendations and the encouragement of Welsh Government to lead by example—to lead from the top. I very much concur with Siân Gwenllian's views on this point. We now need to see that in action, by encouraging leadership roles to be job shared; what are the barriers to this being taken forward? Indeed, Welsh Government's response to recommendation 3 is very welcome indeed—that Welsh Government accepts the need to consider the case for changing the legislation in relation to ministerial roles, with Welsh Government saying it already welcomes job-sharing applications for public appointments. But I would have to ask the Cabinet Secretary: have we actually got any examples of this? If we have, I'm very pleased; I see the nodding of the head by the Cabinet Secretary. But I'm not sure how many actually are aware that this is—. And of course, this is for men as well as women, in terms of the opportunities.

Now, I am aware of a job share of cabinet members at Swansea city council, Mike Hedges—and maybe he was going to comment on this as well. I welcome Welsh Government bringing forward proposals to facilitate job sharing of cabinet roles in local government. And, Dirprwy Lywydd, I do say that this is an issue that we have been discussing for decades. In fact, I've mentioned in a previous debate a book that I wrote in 1992, 'Making Opportunities: A Guide for Working Women and Employers', and it would say the same things today, though the language might slightly change:

'Job sharing is being seen as a major attraction in the recruitment and retention of women employees, particularly for those who are having, or have had, a job or a career break. It is also being used by male employees as a way of combining work and home responsibilities, and diversifying job experiences.'

Well, that was in 1992, and we're still saying the same things today. We really have got to move this forward.

Also, Deputy Llywydd, I have been raising questions about the gender pay gap over the past year. And, indeed, it is the World Economic Forum that said that women would have to wait 217 years before they earn as much as men, and that's according to the global gender pay gap review. Again, how can we ensure that we don't lose sight of the statutory duty, which of course received publicity earlier this year, requiring employers to declare on their gender pay gap profile? So, I'd be interested as well in whether Welsh Government will respond to the Women's Equality Network manifesto, calling for Welsh Government to halve the gender pay gap from 15 per cent to 7 per cent by 2028. It would be good too if the Government were supporting that.

Finally, I welcome recommendations 9 and 10, in recognising the opportunities and the response to the recommendations as well—for Welsh Government to drive change as key criteria in the economic contract. Funding contracts, procurement code—these are the drivers for change. I do welcome, as well, in terms of childcare, that particular recommendation 16 regarding wraparound childcare. I would say that, I think, the provision of free school breakfast in primary schools—I've always said that I wish I'd had that when mine were young, because it actually provides free childcare from 08:15 in the morning, as well as a nutritious, free breakfast.

Finally, I would like to welcome the evidence and recommendations on parental leave, to examine actual take-up of shared parental leave, because this is about engaging both parents; it's not just about women's rights, but about a change in society and about a work/family approach, which, of course, you see very clearly in Sweden. I welcome the recommendation on specialist advice services to be taken forward. We should be able to take the lead as a result of this committee's report, and I also hope that this could be reflected in the way that we look at the wider issues of diversity and equality, not just in the workforce, but here in this Senedd.

I welcome the report, Dirprwy Lywydd, and agree with almost all of it, but I would at this point strike a note of discord with Jane Hutt, not on the last thing she said—I absolutely agree with what she said about shared parental leave and the low take-up—but on recommendation 3. Before I go into that, I'd like to just note the introduction—paragraph 1, page 15:

'Having children has a life-long effect on women’s employment rates, career opportunities and income. A startling proportion of women either do not go back to work after having children, or return to lower paid, part-time jobs to fit around childcare.'

Absolutely. It's certainly the case and it's definitely, starkly, borne out by the evidence and the fact that the same is not felt by fathers. But I would add to that that fathers—and I think that John Griffiths has recognised that—because of the gendered assumptions about childcare, have a different kind of pressure in their lives and that is to leave their children to go to work and provide an income that is reduced as a result of having children, and I felt that myself. I still feel it myself—I'm the father of two small children. And with regard to recommendation 3, let me say that if I was in a position to be offered a place in Government, I would not take it. I would not be able to accept a position in Government, in this Assembly term, and there are no members of the Labour leadership campaign here to say, 'Well, we wouldn't offer it to him anyway'. But if I want to play a part in my children's lives, I have to make that sacrifice. So, I'm recognising that sacrifice, but if I look at recommendation 3, I cannot see how a job share for Ministers would work, in that it isn't a job in the conventional sense. And the same goes for Members of the National Assembly. With responsible Government and with stable Government, I think you are able to work flexibly within your roles and I don't see how it would be publicly acceptable then to job share at election time. But I know that Members in this Chamber have a different view. The reason I mention my own personal position is because I'm saying that from a point of experience, I think.

With regard to recommendation 6—all teaching posts to be advertised as flexible working—the Government has accepted it, but actually they say, 'Well, it's actually down to governing bodies'. I'd like some clarity where they say:

'It will be imperative that the review of teachers' pay and conditions takes full account of the flexibilities required to support the range of working patterns that schools require.'

I'd like to know what that means. I assume it means flexibility in the provision of pay, but I'd like more information there. It's good to see that recommendation 8 builds on the foundational economy and talks about the foundational economy and the gender imbalances there. It's nice to see the dialogue on the foundational economy being taken into committees beyond those of which Members who advocate the foundational economy are Members.

Recommendation 16 urges Government to review the current availability and cost of wraparound care. I've had many conversations with the Minister with regard to the childcare offer and know that the Government is focusing on getting this right. Again, from personal experience, I've seen it happen and I think that co-location of foundation phase childcare, both in school and by care providers, needs to be identified and needs to be part of the principles of what the Government is doing.

Recommendation 30 urges the Welsh Government to create source of advice for all matters relating to parenting and employment, with particular support tailored to SMEs. Well, Members will know that I've talked at length of my experience with SMEs, particularly through my research, and I talked to an owner-manager on one occasion, and he said, 'Yes, my staff, they'd certainly work flexibly. My accountant, not only does he do the accounts, he also cleans the toilets.' And from that point of view, this understanding of flexible working is not fully understood in all of the private sector communities that we've talked about. Flexible working must be for the benefit of the worker, not the employer. That is not understood. We talk about flexible working and, immediately, employers think 'skills flexibility'. That's not what it is; it's 'hours flexibility', and that needs to be clearly understood.

From my point of view, I recognise—and I've been interested in this for a long time as a university teacher—that the nine-to-five desk job is becoming increasingly obsolete, and flexible jobs are what we need, not least with the problems of public transport. In my office, I encourage flexible working. So, my staff are encouraged to work flexibly and to work as flexibly as possible. They don't have to be in on a day when they're not required to be in, they can work from home as much as possible, and they are encouraged to pursue professional development outside of work, but professional development that they desire to see.

I think we can all, as Assembly Members, take this report to heart and use it as an example in the way we employ our staff as well and enable them to work flexibly. So, with one very small caveat, I support this report.

Thank you very much. I now call the leader of the house, Julie James. 

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'd like to start by giving my thanks to the committee for undertaking this inquiry and producing such a well-considered and comprehensive report. It is a very important area, given the far-reaching implications for so many people in Wales. And I'd also particularly like to pay thanks to the Chair, John Griffiths, who steered the inquiry sensitively and diligently to its conclusion. Deputy Presiding Officer, I'd also like to thank all the individuals and organisations who gave evidence to the committee, which is not always an easy task, but nevertheless extremely valuable in shaping the committee's recommendations, as has been made plain by all of the speakers who've contributed to the debate.

This Government is committed to improving conditions for all people in work in Wales, and we are particularly keen to reduce gender inequality in work and childcare within the scope of our devolved responsibilities. As we have stated in our formal response to the committee, the First Minister has led the way in reducing gender inequality and has set a bold and ambitious target for the Welsh Government to become a world leader in women's rights and gender equality. To that end, the reports from phase 1 on the gender equality review undertaken by both Chwarae Teg and the Wales Centre for Public Policy have posed some challenging findings for the Welsh Government, and we will be considering those further as we move into phase 2. Of course, the challenge lies in ensuring effective cross-Government working and seamless multi-agency working. Those are easy phrases to say, but much more difficult to achieve. And also, at the same time, to seek to influence those areas where competence is not devolved but which are nevertheless very important parts of our economy.

We've heard today about equality in general and the Welsh public sector equality duty regulations in particular, and I'm more than happy to pay tribute to my predecessor, Jane Hutt, in steering the equality duty through, but now responsibility falls to me, and I've made it very clear that I expect early action to improve reporting of gender pay gaps. As part of the phase 2 approach, and in specific answer to both Siân Gwenllian and to Jane Hutt on this question, I will be looking to set an ambitious target for halving, or eliminating even, dare I say, the gender pay gap in the Welsh Government. The only reason I haven't signed up to the 'when' one is because I want to see if we can be even more ambitious than that. So, I'm looking at that, and I will be, by the end of this term, Deputy Presiding Officer, bringing a report back to the Chamber about what we think we can achieve in a reasonable timescale, because I don't think it's at all acceptable that we have a gender pay gap in the Welsh Government. We need to be an exemplar in this regard. How can we be properly enjoining other organisations in Wales to do this if we aren't able to do it ourselves?

On the basis of that, it's fundamental that we have the right evidence base on which to act, and therefore I am also making clear that the principles of open data—data that's transparent, user-friendly and accessible—sit at the heart of our Welsh public body reporting arrangements so that there is no place to hide. With that in mind, I've also made it very clear that we'll be looking to see what regulations need to be put in place to ensure that all public bodies in Wales report these matters in one accessible place and with easy and accessible, transparent data. So, again, Deputy Presiding Officer, I'll be bringing that back as part of my report, which will be before the end of this Assembly autumn term. Is that the right phrase? Before Christmas, anyway, of this year.

At the core of what we're trying to achieve here in terms of reducing gender inequality must be the promotion of fair work. As the report says, this is essential if we're to deliver a Welsh economy that provides individual and national prosperity while spreading opportunity and tackling regional inequalities, including gender inequalities. Last year, the Fair Work Board set out the underpinning values of fair work, which include a right to be heard, fair and guaranteed hourly earnings, job security and career progression, and not least, job quality and working time quality. The Fair Work Commission is now taking this work into its next phase, building on these strong foundations, and it will be looking closely at the levers that are available to Welsh Government to implement that fair work, and will be identifying whether there are new or additional steps that might be taken, including looking at new legislation. We've made a commitment to amend the economic contract following the work of the Fair Work Commission, and, again, we need to get that evidential base right so that we can act and make sure that we have the best, world-leading legislation in that regard here in Wales.

The report also rightly focuses on the issue of childcare. It's often cited as one of the main barriers faced by parents who are accessing work. It's cited, as everybody, I think, has mentioned, as one of the reasons why some parents where they do, or work the hours they do, or don't work at all, so it's still an unpalatable truth that, in the twenty-first century in Wales, the majority of children in relative income poverty live in a household where, actually, at least one person is working. We know that well-paid work is both the best route out of poverty and the greatest protection against poverty, and, Deputy Presiding Officer, we also know that financial inequality in the home is one of the main drivers of some of the sexual violence and domestic violence that we see. So it's absolutely paramount that we drive gender equality into the Welsh culture, and in that regard I just want to highlight the 'This is Me' gender equality campaign that the Welsh Government has been running. It has been very successful in terms of its reach, and we hope that it will be very successful in terms of its impact, but in terms of the number of people who've seen it, that has had a very wide reach indeed.

I'd just like to underline to members of the committee that that is very much about being allowed to be the person that you want to be, whether you're male or female, so driving some of the cultural change that John Griffiths in particular talked about, where it's perfectly acceptable for a man to be the main carer of the children and for the woman not to be, and vice versa, or whatever other arrangement suits you. We should be facilitating all of those changes in society. There's no doubt at all that people make decisions on how to do childcare at home when they can't afford the paid childcare that they need based on inadequate information. So, I think it's fair to say that the evidence says that the vast majority of people making decisions about which partner should give up work and so on base it on narrow things around current earnings and not on lifetime earnings, for example, and without a full understanding of the economic impact prolonged periods out of work can have on anyone's career.

With that, I want to say that we're looking very carefully at the issues raised by a number of people, particularly Siân Gwenllian and Jane Hutt, but I think everybody who spoke mentioned it, around the take-up of shared parental leave in the Welsh Government, so that I can understand what's currently being taken up, or certainly on offer, but what's currently being taken up and why, and what effect that has, and what data we have about that, so that, again, I can bring it back to this Chamber to say what we can do about ensuring that more people take up those offers, and if they don't, what the barriers might be, given that it's on offer here in the Government, and because, again, if we can't be the exemplar, Deputy Presiding Officer, then I think we're going to be struggling.

I'm not going to focus that much on our childcare offer. It has been rehearsed in the Chamber very often and my colleague the Minister for Children, amongst other things, has already set it out. But it is worth saying just this: that the childcare offer is not the only way of securing childcare paid for by the Welsh Government. We do have a number of other programmes that I know my colleague Huw Irranca-Davies has mentioned in this Chamber on a number of occasions. Together as a package, they are far more than just the current childcare offer that's in the manifesto, and he has spoken often about corralling that together, and that will be part of what the Fair Work Commission also looks at, to see what barriers there are in driving some of the fair work practices that we want to see in Wales.

I also want to say this about the work of the committee: I very much appreciate the work that's been done on flexible working practices and so on, but there is a case also for pushing what are called modern working practices, and outcome-focused employment, where actually presence in the workplace is not what drives the remuneration. That also assists people with disabilities and other access issues. So, if your employment, if possible—and it's not always possible; it's more difficult, for example, for teachers to have this—but there are lots of jobs in the modern economy where an outcome-based remuneration package works very well, and therefore for people who need very flexible arrangements, as long as they can produce the outcomes necessary, what difference does it make where they do it from, how they're addressed or what access arrangements they've had in order to produce those outcomes? I very much want to reference the work of the previous GE Aviation chief executive, La-Chun Lindsay, in what she was able to show could be done even on a production line when you look at output-based working to get diversity and opportunity into a workforce. I think it's a shame that she's gone back to America now, but I'm still in contact with her, and she drove some very innovative practices.

So, I just want to end, Deputy Presiding Officer, by thanking the committee again for this comprehensive report. It's provided food for thought and gives a clear sense of the issues still facing people in Wales, particularly women in the workplace. I think that the committee is a good champion of equality, as I hope I am. This portfolio that I have is not just a responsibility for me, however—it's a responsibility across the Government. We've accepted the vast majority of the recommendations of the committee, and I look forward to working with my Cabinet colleagues and my committee colleagues in taking this important work forward. Diolch yn fawr.     

Thank you. Can I now call John Griffiths to reply to the debate? 

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to thank all the Members who contributed, all of whom I think emphasised the importance of these matters to the economy as well as to individuals and families affected. Janet Finch-Saunders mentioned the range of evidence that came to inform the committee's work, and I think that is extremely important in terms of the provenance of the report and the recommendations that we have made. And it was good to see a number of Assembly Members drawing on their own personal experience. Siân Gwenllian, Jane Hutt and Hefin David all cited their own personal experience of these issues. Jane Hutt referring to 1992, when we were faced with the same challenges, in many respects, that we face today, and although considerable progress has been made, some of the basic essential challenges remain for us to overcome. It's also true, I think, Dirprwy Lywydd, that there was a wider recognition of the scale of the challenges, but also I think a very positive account of how we can move forward, and the consensus I think that there is around this particular report, and the recommendations that we've made.

Cultural change is extremely difficult to bring about—and behavioural change—but it is essential to the progress that we require. I think central to it is the matters of how it relates to men and women, to fathers as well as mothers, and I think that is extremely important because if we do get a greater recognition from men and fathers of the benefit that they would receive were they to play a greater role in the childcare of their families, that would help move matters forward, because we would have a wider consensus still as to the necessary change that should come about. So, I think we all have to work towards that, but, obviously, there is a responsibility of leadership for all of us here today, and perhaps more so still for Welsh Government.

So, I'm very pleased to hear what Julie James had to say in recognising the strength of the recommendations in the report and the work of the committee, but also the commitment to report back, because in our report, and in my remarks earlier, we have stressed the need for Welsh Government perhaps to go beyond the valuable response that it has already made by reporting back perhaps after the Fair Work Commission has reported, but in general. And I take that from today, and I think that would please all of the Members who've contributed, Dirprwy Lywydd, if we do see that continuing engagement from Welsh Government to inform us as to what they will do to make these recommendations a reality.         

Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36. 

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.