The following amendment has been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.

That brings us to item 10, which is a debate on the Children’s Commissioner for Wales’s annual report 2017-18. I call on the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Motion NDM6855 Julie James

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the Children’s Commissioner for Wales’ Annual Report 2017-18.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Llywydd. I would like to begin my contribution to this debate by thanking the children’s commissioner, not only for her annual report, but also for her tireless work on behalf of children and young people in Wales throughout the year. I'm sure that Members would agree that giving children a voice and advocating on their behalf is a crucially important role. Therefore, I welcome her report and the valuable work that she has done and will continue to do.

Wales has led the way in children's rights by enshrining them in law through the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011—the first UK nation to do so, and it's something that we in Wales should be very proud of. We are passionately committed to children's rights, and this is clearly demonstrated by us being the first UK nation to appoint a children's commissioner.

Children's rights are entitlements—they are not optional—and we as a country will work hard to ensure that children's rights are understood and are respected. Children's rights support our ambition for each and every child in Wales to have the very best possible start in life. They are the driving force behind key programmes and policies in Wales, programmes such as Flying Start, our work on tackling adverse childhood experiences, and, indeed, our parenting campaigns. In short, children's rights are part of our DNA—they're crucial to the way that we do things in Wales.

Of course, there are many areas of policy that impact on children's lives right across our programme for government, and I've written to my Cabinet and ministerial colleagues highlighting the importance of keeping children's rights at the very centre of the work that we do. And I know that children's rights are being taken seriously right across Welsh Government. Recent examples of good practice include the ministerial focus on children's mental health and well-being, and universal support for children through the Healthy Child Wales programme. And the children's commissioner plays a crucial role as an independent champion of children's rights in Wales. As part of this role the children's commissioner helps to hold the Government to account, and I can confirm to Assembly Members that she is certainly taking that part of her role very seriously indeed, and we welcome it.

Each year, the commissioner is required to publish an annual report setting out how her office has safeguarded and promoted the rights of children and young people in Wales. In this year's annual report the commissioner has made 15 recommendations to the Welsh Government across education and health, children's services and transport. Now, the First Minister will publish his full response on or before 30 November, which means that I won't be setting out the full detail of our response during today's debate, and I hope Members understand that.

But, returning to this year's report, I want to draw the attention of Members to some key themes that the commissioner makes. Now, in particular, I'm delighted to see that the report does recognise the progress that's been made on the proposed legislation to remove the defence of reasonable punishment and on advocacy for vulnerable children. The report also highlights the commissioner's achievements in the first and second year of her three-year strategic plan in terms of project and also core work. Some of that core work includes the commissioner assisting more than 550 individual children and young people through her investigation and advice service. This is hugely valuable work, supporting the needs of vulnerable children and young people.

The annual report also sets out how the commissioner has implemented the principles of her children's rights approach in her own work and that of other agencies. And I'm encouraged to see how her work has challenged and supported other public bodies in Wales to adopt a children's rights based approach. Examples within the report include the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust and the National Museum of Wales, amongst others.

The need to get services working more effectively together for our children and young people is a prominent theme in this year's report and I couldn't agree more that this needs to be done. This is also a major priority for the Welsh Government's reform programme. If we want to bring about real and sustainable change, we must work together to deliver services in a co-ordinated and integrated and a timely way. And we have to ensure that the rights of children and young people are embedded deeply in everything that we do. It's only when our programmes come together seamlessly that we will get the best value for parents and children from the limited resources that are available to us. So, we are committed to working across Welsh Government, with the public, with the third sector and with our own communities, including with children and young people.

The research, we know, is clear, childhood experiences are instrumental in shaping our lives, they impact our physical and mental health and they influence educational outcomes and economic prosperity lifelong. The research also makes clear that, with the right support, children can overcome and recover from childhood adversity. Our role is to help them build the resilience they need to be able to do so. To achieve this, we're committed to supporting that joined-up, responsive, early years system that puts the unique needs of each child and family right at its heart. This was a central commitment we made in 'Prosperity for All'.

It is important that we work together to maximize the opportunities to improve the outcomes for our children and our young people, to ensure that they all have the best possible start in life and go on to fulfil their potential. We do know that we only do that effectively when we listen and respond to the views and needs of children and young people themselves. Article 12 recognises they are right to have their voice heard and listened to and acted upon in decisions that affect them. We're committed to ensuring children and young people are full and active citizens in Wales, whose views are taken into account. They have clear views and a valuable contribution to make to the design of our services. I am clear, as Minister, that children's views will continue to be essential in the development and the delivery of our legislation, our policies and our programmes. We must ensure that they consistently have an active voice in the workings of Government.

For the only point today, I'll turn to Brexit. With Brexit currently dominating the news across the UK, it is imperative that we do not lose sight of those that it will impact the most. I've been taking the time to listen to the views of children on Brexit and other issues. They've talked to me with great passion about their concerns for future funding, their opportunities to study abroad, whether Brexit will lead to a reduction in environmental standards, and so on. We owe it to them to fight for the best outcome for Wales in the current negotiations. We will do everything in our power to ensure that their voices are heard and that our children's futures are not harmed. We want our children to grow up in a Wales they can be proud of. 

I note that the Member for Ynys Môn has put forward an amendment to the Government's motion. With regret, I say we won't be supporting the amendment. The rad, amber, green ratings referred to in the amendment are the commissioner's assessment of the Welsh Government's response to recommendations in her 2016-17 annual report, they do not form part of this year's annual report itself. So, I hope Members will understand why we won't be supporting those, useful as the RAG ratings are. 

As a Government, we have and will continue to work collaboratively with the commissioner and others for the benefit of children and young people. I will continue to focus on delivering for children and young people right across Wales, ensuring that their voices and their rights are at the forefront of everything that we as a nation hope to achieve. 

Therefore, I look forward to having conversations with the children’s commissioner and practitioners who work with children, and, most importantly, with children and young people themselves about how we will do that. Thank you very much.

I have selected the amendment to the motion, and I call on Siân Gwenllian to move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Amendment 1—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Add as new point at end of motion:

Notes that the Children’s Commissioner has rated the Welsh Government’s progress on the profit-in-care services, British Sign Language, health advocacy, childcare and elective home education as red, meaning that there has been no evidence of policy or practice changes since the recommendation was made and no improvement in children’s experiences.

Amendment 1 moved.

Thank you very much. Despite the claims made by the Minister, it’s a cause of concern that many recent decisions taken by the Welsh Government have been taken without giving full consideration to the rights of children. In her written evidence to the scrutiny of the draft Welsh Government budget, the children’s commissioner, in a report that is quite damning of the Welsh Government, says this:

'children’s rights appear to be an "add-on" within this budget...

'There does not appear to have been progress around the prominence of children and children’s rights within the budget considerations;

'There is a lack of analytical evidence in the form of Children’s Rights Impact Assessments to show whether children are better or worse off as a result of the budget decisions'.

There was no children's rights impact assessment prepared for the budget proposals, not even for the three important areas that have been subject to budgetary cuts, which are the school uniform grant, the minority ethnic attainment grant and the all-Wales schools contact programme.

The commissioner’s report, which will be discussed on Thursday, raises major questions, and I do look forward to hearing the Government committing to taking specific steps to increase and improve its performance significantly.

I turn specifically, therefore, to the commissioner’s annual report for 2017-18, and refer specifically to the traffic-light system of monitoring the progress of the Welsh Government in terms of taking action on recommendations, which is an excellent system for scrutiny. Yes, this is scrutinising work emerging from the 2016-17 annual report—that’s what the commissioner is doing, but she also provides live updates on her website. In our amendment, we quote from a report from September 2018, which shows a lack of progress, unfortunately, with only four of the recommendations categorised as green and five categorised as red. This does raise major questions about the Welsh Government’s commitment to the rights of the child.

The red recommendations include childcare, with the commissioner stating that

'The Welsh Government should ensure through the childcare offer pilot and any subsequent scheme that the children of non-working parents do not miss out on the increased childcare being offered to children of working parents.'

She goes on to say that the current proposal would mean that the children who would benefit most from childcare would miss that opportunity to develop key life skills at an early stage. With the most disadvantaged children starting school 10 months behind those from wealthier backgrounds, Plaid Cymru shares the commissioner’s concern.

Another issue that’s flagged up as being red by the commissioner is Government deficiencies in terms of elective home education. Again, I quote the commissioner

'the Welsh Government needs to amend the current guidance to give it statutory force and include a compulsory register for all home educated children to ensure they do not end up “off the radar” from even universal services.'

Every child has a right to an education, and local authorities have a responsibility to ensure that they receive an education. We must enable local authorities to do this work.

According to the children’s commissioner,

'Since this recommendation was made, the Cabinet Secretary made a statement in the Senedd in January 2018 outlining the intention to consult on changes to secondary legislation to strengthen the existing powers of local authorities.

'To date no consultation has been introduced and the anticipated timeline for this is spring 2019.' 

Again, those are the words of the commissioner.

Whilst the Welsh Government is dragging its feet, there is a risk that many children will miss out on their right to an education, and there is a risk that there are children who are going under the radar, in terms of the receipt of basic services.

Briefly, another issue that the Welsh Government has failed to take action on is British Sign Language. According to the National Deaf Children’s Society Wales, last year deaf pupils were 26 per cent less likely to receive A*-C grades in the core subjects, as compared to their peers who don’t have a hearing impairment. This gap exists because of the barriers that those with hearing impairments suffer, and this, again, is flagged up with a red light by the commissioner.

There’s no time to pursue the other two areas, but Ministers do need to address these issues as a matter of urgency—those that have been flagged as red by the commissioner, but also those that are amber. The Government must publish a timetable in order to convince us that things will be different—that things will improve—when we come back to this place next year.

I offer my thanks to the children's commissioner, and her office as well. We will be supporting the Plaid Cymru amendment to the motion because it sums up pretty well, I think, some of the current concerns, which are, as Siân Gwenllian pointed out, still live red risks, as the audit risk and assurance committee of the commissioner's office has identified. And they're five policy areas that have a direct, material effect on young people, their families, the life chances of both, where we see the frustration of those who want to provide services, and the frustration of the commissioner herself, who has been unable to force change. What is also rather worrying, I think, is that this is not dominating the headlines to help us hold Welsh Government to account, and help the people we serve better understand what we do in this place, and how we represent them on their priorities. I really hope that the media will scrutinise Welsh Government's response to this report—or, as we've just heard, lack of response to this report—because I suspect action on the failures addressed within it matter more to our constituents than smoking in town centres and Powys's festive pizza mess-up, I have to say.

Because some of the criticism contained in this report should anger us every bit as much as the findings that, in all fairness, were covered by the BBC today about the number of young people who self-harm when they are in jail, because the issues are connected. The mental health of these young people should be far more urgently important to them and to us as a society than the distraction of whether they've got the vote or not, because those of us who do have a vote need to keep asking why we're failing to keep our very young out of prison. Despite the commissioner's welcome work with health boards and Parc prison in my own region—where they have a very good record of working with families to maintain a healthy parental relationship, but were on the wrong end of this self-harm report—and despite the work with local councils, it seems that our aspirations for better health advocacy, and a reduction in the incidence and effects of bullying at an early age, are broadly unmet. 

Of course, this echoes the concerns articulated in the 'Mind over matter' report, which I won't go into again today. But if the commissioner is recommending giving statutory force to a national approach to statutory advocacy in order to improve the offer in health and even education, Welsh Government must tell us if and when they intend to do this.

We talk about early intervention in this place all the time, and advocacy is part of that. It can be highly effective at community level, preventing escalating issues that allow our young people to become damaged adults. While there may have been some progress, it's neither geographically consistent—for example, with looked-after children, the take-up of the advocacy offer was just 2 per cent in Gwynedd, but 88 per cent in Caerphilly—nor does it capture health and education as fully as it might. So, I hope the recommendation relating to the regional partnership boards is something against which we'll see clear progress by next year. 

Having said that, I would also hope to be able to follow the spend on that progress. As we've said before, particularly in our committee, integrated budgets make the connection between expenditure and outcomes for children and young people unnecessarily difficult to trace.

Now, turning to education directly, I've seen first hand how the right way has made a difference. Craigcefnparc Primary School in my own region is a really good example of how everyone's understanding of children's rights has contributed to the whole-school ethos, and the application of that has now turned the fortunes of that school around and made it exactly the kind of school we would all want to see. How sad it is, then, to hear that, despite the work of Welsh Conservative Mawr councillor Brigitte Rowlands and the families in that community, that Swansea city cabinet members are refusing to visit the school to see it for themselves, which is very disappointing considering that they will be making the decision whether or not that school closes.

I hope the commissioner is alive to those occasions where commitment and lip service appear interchangeable, because I remain unconvinced that the due regard that we and Welsh Government must all give to children's rights in policy and legislation is replicated in the delivery of those policies and legislation by public bodies. I don't think, Minister, it is in the DNA yet, so do we need to legislate?

Briefly, then, a three-point finish. The commissioner's recommendation on revisions to Welsh Government's current transport offer, we heard a bit more about that on the back of the budget, but Welsh Conservatives have a recommendation of their own—a more generous offer of a green card giving free bus travel up to the age of 24, acknowledging that young people may still need help to get to work, especially if that is a low-paying first job, as they quite often are. 

Secondly, I reiterate what Siân Gwenllian said regarding British Sign Language, and I note the regretful tone of the National Deaf Children's Society Cymru's view on the commissioner's findings. 

To conclude—the Welsh language. I would like to see more details in reports on how children’s rights to live through the medium of Welsh are being delivered, and, perhaps, some co-operation with the Welsh Language Commissioner on that issue. Thank you.

I'd like to start by paying tribute to Sally Holland and her staff for all the different issues they've taken up during this year, and also for the way she's worked so closely with us Assembly Members and with the Children, Young People and Education Committee, where she has appeared frequently and has really influenced, I think, the way that we've made decisions. And of course, most importantly of all, working directly with children and giving children a voice in Wales.

I'd like to thank her for her commitment—her long-standing commitment—to getting rid of the defence of reasonable punishment. I note in her annual report that this is her top recommendation to the Government, and she says that this legislation should take place as soon as possible. I know that she has actually campaigned on this for many years. In fact, this has been a recommendation of all children's commissioners since the office was created: Peter Clarke, Keith Towler and now Sally Holland.

So, I think that their persistence and commitment to getting rid of the defence of reasonable punishment is finally reaching a conclusion and I'm very pleased that the Minister has concluded and has confirmed that we will be having legislation next year. More and more research is actually reinforcing the importance of the Welsh Government taking this action, because a report published in BMJ Open in October, looking at 88 countries, found that in countries that had outlawed smacking or hitting children there was much less likelihood of violence and fighting between young people. Fighting was less common among 13-year-old boys and girls in countries with a total ban on corporal punishment compared with those without, with 31 per cent less fighting for boys and 58 per cent less for girls.

There's also been a lot of research recently from the American Academy of Pediatrics, which provides guidance for doctors and child healthcare providers. It has published a new policy statement that recommends that adults caring for children use healthy forms of discipline, such as positive reinforcement of appropriate behaviours, setting limits and setting expectations, and not using spanking, hitting, slapping, threatening, insulting, humiliating or shaming. So, the research is certainly reinforcing the decision that the Welsh Government has taken to go ahead with this legislation. And Sally Holland, in her annual report, actually quotes children and young people's views about this legislation, and I think it shows really what children do think. It says,   

'Children should be protected not smacked'.

'Smacking can always go too far, where do you draw the line?'

'Some people think you have to smack children for them to learn how to behave. I disagree, it is completely unnecessary'.

'You should talk and explain so that they don’t do the same thing again.'

'Instead of smacking you can ban TV or the iPad; anything is better than smacking'.

So, Sally Holland has been taking direct evidence from children about their views on smacking. So, it's absolutely great that the Welsh Government is taking this action and will be soon joining the many countries around the world who have already done this. 

Finally, I would just like to refer to an issue that the children's commissioner raised last week when she drew attention to inequalities in school sport. I'm sure many of you did see the stuff on the television about the frustration that young women feel about not having equal access to sport. It can't be right that more and more girls, for example, are wanting to play football, but a 13-year-old girl says she's been criticised and called a man or a lesbian for playing a boy's sport. She was told by her teachers that she can't play football in school as hockey and netball are the sports for girls.

Sally Holland quite rightly says that it's depressing to hear about gender stereotyping in schools in this day and age, and she described the sex segregation of school sport as 'surprising' in 2018. So, I think this is a very important point that has been brought up by Sally Holland, because we want our young people—girls and boys—to stay as active as possible and school sport is obviously one of the key ways to do that. So, I'd like to ask the Cabinet Secretary to comment on that when he does respond, because I think we really do have to find out the number of schools, especially secondary schools, that still offer only segregated sport for boys and girls, and whether there is any guidance for schools on this.

Can I thank the Minister for bringing forward this important debate and also put on record my thanks to the children's commissioner, Sally Holland, and her team for the excellent work that they do on behalf of children and young people here in Wales? I think it's a sad fact that, in 2018, many children and young people in our country don't enjoy the same safety and privileges that we in this Chamber were blessed to be growing up with. So, I welcome some of the key recommendations in Sally Holland's report, which of course were aimed at getting vulnerable young people and children access to the help and support that they need.

I did note the references that the commissioner made to the work of the Children, Young People and Education Committee on mental health, and I think it is important that we ensure that there is access, as Suzy Davies has quite rightly said, to ensure that people can get access to those services in a very timely manner. And I picked up of course on her references to bullying also and the need to ensure that that is tackled, quite rightly as has already been discussed this afternoon.

But, Presiding Officer, we've got much to do for our children and young people. The youngsters of today are the Assembly Members of tomorrow, and we must ask ourselves what legacy we are leaving to them. Will they be looking back in gratitude when they sit in this Chamber in the future or will they be wishing that we had done more? A key part of our advocacy will be making the right policy decisions. When there is so much to do it's vital that we do the right thing for our children and young people, and I have to say that one thing I'm disappointed about in the commissioner's report is the recommendation to remove the defence of reasonable chastisement. It seems to me to be the wrong course of action when you consider the actual harms that children are indeed facing. The report states that children in Wales do not have equal protection from assault in law compared to adults, but, of course, that is misleading and inaccurate. The law clearly protects young children and all children, indeed, from violence, but it also recognises that light physical discipline, such as a smack on the hand or the backside, should not be a criminal offence. And removing the defence of reasonable chastisement, I think, will destroy this distinction and leave many loving parents across Wales who smack their children at risk of arrest, conviction and even prosecution.

The report goes on to say, of course, that the Government has an obligation to take action where there's a potential risk of harm to children in Wales, and I agree with that absolutely. But there are people out there who do abuse children, and we should be empowering social services and the police to track them down and bring them to justice, not wasting the time of the police and social services by sending them after ordinary, hard-working mums and dads who choose to occasionally smack their children as a form of discipline. The evidence does not show that light smacking does any harm to children. The Government consultation on abolishing reasonable chastisement admits this. In fact, it stated, and I quote:

'there is unlikely to be any research evidence which specifically shows the effects of a light and infrequent smack as being harmful to children.'

And I would urge all of the Assembly Members present in this Chamber to read the work of Professor Robert Larzelere, one of the leading academics in this area of child discipline. His evidence to the Government's consultation on this matter is very compelling. So, will the Government also commit to following that evidence on this matter, rather than trying to take up what they believe is a fashionable thing? And I have to contend that it's not particularly fashionable either. We know that the results of a Welsh poll back in 2017 concluded that 76 per cent of the Welsh public don't think that smacking should be a criminal offence; 77 per cent are concerned that a smacking ban may well flood the police and social workers with trivial cases and make it more difficult for them to target their resources, their limited resources, to stop serious child abusers; and 77 per cent of the Welsh public also think that it should be the role of parents and guardians, not the state, to decide whether to smack their children.

So, I think it is absolutely vital that we do what we can to improve the lot of children and young people here in Wales and that we pursue measures that will genuinely help children, but this particular proposal, in terms of a smacking ban, is not the right way forward, and I would urge the Minister in his response to consider the weight of evidence, which is absolutely against the Government's plans.

I call the Minister for Children, Older People and Social Care to reply to the debate. Huw Irranca-Davies. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I don't think, in the time remaining, I'll be able to answer every single point in the full detail I normally give, but I will do my very best. Can I just, first of all, say to Siân and to others who have challenged us on what we're doing? We do not—we recognise—embed a rights agenda overnight and we welcome the challenge, both from the children's commissioner and from others, but it is fair to say as well that the children's commissioner, who we work with diligently on a wide range of policy areas that have been referred to this afternoon, she also recognises where we are achieving as well as putting the challenges down to us about where we need to do more, and we do know that we need to do more, not just as Welsh Government, but all partners across Wales, to embed the children's rights agenda. We can agree on that.

The RAG ratings issue: I entirely agree, we need to equally respond to those. I did say at the outset of my remarks that we wouldn't be responding in detail because the First Minister will also—. Sorry. I can't respond in detail to every single point there, but it is important that we recognise that within the report the children's commissioner has recognised how far we have advanced. That does include in terms of the legislation. Whilst we won't agree with every detail on every minutiae with the children's commissioner, we welcome the challenge.

Darren, it's interesting that you've just expressed an area where you disagree fundamentally with the children's commissioner, but also many other people out there now, who see that it is actually time to follow in our own way in Wales what 53 other countries have done, and not in a question, by the way, of interfering in children's rights, but also balancing those rights that we talked about of the child to a safe, secure home, wrapped up with the work that we've done over many years now with positive parenting, which is bearing dividends as well there.

And we have committed, Julie, I have to say, to bring forward—. The First Minister made clear that we would bring forward legislation in year three of this Assembly, which is the year now in front of us, and we look forward to doing that. We will work through the detail with all parties, by the way, and we will listen to the views of stakeholders, but we've made clear that we're bringing forward this legislation because we think it is actually in line with the work that we've done on positive parenting. It is the right thing, as well, for a modern and progressive country like Wales to do, that believes in the children's rights agenda.

Will you take an intervention?

I don't think I have time, Darren, unfortunately.

It was just on the positive parenting point.

And the issue of Parc prison, can I say it is important that we look upon those youngsters in Parc prison as young people first and foremost and make sure that the support is there available for them, so that the worrying stories we've heard about self-harm are addressed? I believe that Parc prison has responded in some way by saying that the data that has been brought forward might not reflect the most recent data, where I think they suggest that they've had a significant decline in it, but I think we do need to take an interest within that.

Julie's point in terms of segregation in school sports: this is very interesting and I'm happy to write and to confirm what the guidance is on this. I've actually had it within my own—. Very good local schools there, I've had it brought to me by parents myself saying, 'Why are girls and boys split for sessions when they're actually playing together outside of the school within a sports team and, yet, within the school, somehow, they're being split within sessions or even within playtime?' So, I'll happily write on that matter.

If I could turn to the issue of sign language in the very short time available to me, obviously, people will know that the Welsh Government formally recognised British Sign Language as a language in its own right in January 2004 and, since then, there have been iterations of supported training to increase the number of qualified interpreters in Wales to ensure that legislation, policies and programmes are in place across Government that recognise the importance of accessible communications. But, we do acknowledge there are still a number of issues currently being faced by members of the deaf community in Wales in relation to BSL, including a shortage of BSL interpreters. So, the Welsh Government recently responded to the Auditor General for Wales's 'Speak my language' report. It contained recommendations on how public bodies, particularly those on front-line services, provide interpretation and translation services for BSL and other languages, and the Welsh Government accepted all three recommendations and indicated that we will be reviewing current provision of BSL to ensure that our approach meets the needs of individuals and their families. We'll continue to progress work on these actions over the coming month, and we're also considering recommendations made in a report by the Petitions Committee to improve access to education and services in British Sign Language.

Now, I want to thank all the Members—.

Sorry, I wanted to turn to the issue of elective home education as well in the couple of minutes that I have. Now, we're in agreement with the children's commissioner that all children in Wales should be accounted for. However, this isn't a matter just for education; it's also a matter of concern for all agencies with responsibility for children and young people and making them visible. So, we've instigated cross-departmental work to consider the strengthening of those multi-agency processes for those children not in routine contact with universal services. But in terms of education, we are clear that the primary policy intent behind the proposals that are developing is to ensure that home-educated children and young people in Wales receive that suitable education, and in so doing, parents also can be signposted to other services that are available to them. 

Now, I do acknowledge that the children's commissioner has been concerned about the timing of the consultation and the regulations, but we have to get this right. We have to bring forward both the regulations and the statutory guidance with due deliberation and to get it absolutely right. It requires considerable work to appropriately and informatively develop the policy, and we're taking that forward. It's not dissimilar in its complexity to that of primary legislation. 

Now, the report—both the First Minister and I have taken the opportunity to meet with the children's commissioner to discuss the report. The First Minister will publish the full Welsh Government written response by 30 November—I've turned red. Could I—?

Yes, you've turned red.

Diolch, Llywydd. Now, the discussion that we've had today will help shape our response, and I'll make sure that a response is available to Assembly Members. We'll respond to all of the 15 recommendations that the commissioner has made. We might not be able to agree with every single recommendation to the nth degree, but I can commit that we will continue to drive forward progress on children's rights and well-being. Diolch, Llywydd.

The proposal is to agree amendment 1. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.