Therefore, item 5 is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport on apprenticeships and investing in skills for the future, and I call on the Deputy Minister to make the statement. Lee Waters. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I am pleased to be able to inform the National Assembly that the Welsh Government is on track to meet our manifesto commitment to deliver a minimum of 100,000 all-age, high-quality apprenticeships by the end of this Assembly term. Thanks to a remarkable effort from employers, providers and advice services, we have delivered 56,635 apprenticeship starts between May 2016 and July 2018. As we promised to do, we have focused on raising the quality of apprenticeships, and are aligning them with the needs of the Welsh economy, putting us in a stronger position to deal with the impact of globalisation, developments in automation and the fallout from Brexit.

There have been criticisms that we are not following the approach of the Government in England, but the emerging evidence is showing we have been right to take a strategic approach. Our apprenticeship scheme is on track. The English scheme is in free fall. The number of starts in Wales has increased. Last week, the National Audit Office reported that instead of rising as they had hoped, the apprenticeship starts in England are 25 per cent lower than they were two years ago, and it said the UK Government is 'very unlikely' to meet its target. We have taken a fair amount of stick from the opposition on this, and the evidence at this stage shows that we are right and they're wrong.

Welsh apprenticeships are being designed differently, to improve productivity and meet strategic skills needs. Our investment is being tailored to the needs of employers in each region, based on the recommendations from the regional skills partnerships, labour market information and sector reviews carried out by Qualifications Wales. The needs of the businesses that power our economy are central. We have created the Wales apprenticeship advisory board to provide robust challenge on skills content, and advice on the scope and range of apprenticeship frameworks. It is chaired by the Confederation of British Industry, and includes large employers and SMEs from across Wales.

We are not providing vouchers for courses that employers would run anyway in many cases, but providing clear skills progression, so that Welsh workers can move into higher value and better rewarding employment, with better life chances. We've looked at the evidence from other European countries and we are prioritising the expansion of higher apprenticeships in science, technology, engineering, mathematics and technical subjects to create a new generation of professionals to drive innovative practices, create new products and boost productivity levels. This means we are focusing on apprenticeships at level 3 and above, where returns on investment are high. As we develop our approach to nurturing the foundational economy, we'll continue to reflect on the needs of grounded firms and essential services.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

We are committed to skills progression across the board, and continue to work closely with our social partners in trade unions and in industry. We are creating better jobs closer to home, through extending and expanding shared apprenticeships in the Valleys taskforce area to support small business in accessing training. We are encouraging SMEs to use apprenticeships by offering an incentive of up to £3,500 to recruit a young person, providing that employer hasn’t previously offered an apprenticeship. All this is aimed at creating a culture in Wales where recruiting an apprentice is normal business practice.

This is the key point to our approach, Dirprwy Lywydd. In Wales, you don’t need a voucher to get apprenticeships that deliver for the strategic needs of your business. We say to any of the estimated 700 or so levy-paying employers, 'If your needs aren’t being met, come and talk to us.' We've established a team of advisors to support levy-paying employers, engaging closely with representative employer bodies, and published factual guides for both levy payers and other employers on how they can access the programme in Wales.

We have introduced digital apprenticeships to fill skills gaps identified by regional skills partnerships, initially in information and communications technology, and, soon, in the advanced engineering sector. And, as the evidence emerges, we hope to extend provision into other sectors too. If I may, Dirprwy Lywydd, I'll just run through a couple of the initiatives we are doing in this area.

To unlock demand, we have been working with employers under skills clusters, in areas such as health, forestry, engineering and digital. This work is driving improvement in public services as we partner with local authorities, the health service and other public bodies to share expertise. To complement this, we are working closely with the Federation of Small Businesses, to understand how we can cluster delivery around certain sectors, so that SMEs can better access the programme.

We are reviewing and strengthening the quality of commissioning, developing and issuing apprenticeship frameworks in Wales to meet the changing needs of our economy. This will ensure that our frameworks remain relevant and portable across the UK, whilst also serving the specific needs of Wales. We are strengthening the regulatory oversight of the system too, and will be launching a consultation shortly on the content of apprenticeships, with a focus on technical occupations.

For young people, we'll be launching a new IT platform to make the apprenticeship journey clearer and more user-friendly. Our programmes, Junior Apprenticeships, Preparation for Apprenticeships and Have a Go, operate in schools and are each preparing young people for vocational education. We'll be supporting people into apprenticeships via the Working Wales and the Job Support Wales programmes, providing a path to a career and life opportunities.

Last year, we published a comprehensive equality toolkit to support providers and employers, which includes modules on gender identity, stereotyping and unconscious bias. And more recently, we launched our disability action plan, developed in consultation with disability bodies, which sets out an ambitious agenda to broaden training opportunities for disabled people.

So, in conclusion, Dirprwy Lywydd, in the first half of this Assembly term, we have strengthened the relevance, quality and effectiveness of our apprenticeship offer. We all know that the pressures on Wales will increase in the coming years—possibly in the coming weeks. Brexit, new technologies and automation all demand that we have a resilient training system. Our commitment to the foundational economy and to filling Wales's missing middle of medium-sized firms requires us to focus on apprenticeships, lifelong learning and on-the-job training. Delivering relevant, high-quality apprenticeships will help us meet all these challenges. Diolch.

I'm grateful to the Minister for his statement here today—at the third attempt. Last week was National Apprenticeship Week. National Apprenticeship Week represents an opportunity to highlight the benefit apprenticeships can bring to individuals, employers and to the economy as a whole. An apprenticeship gives someone the chance to get new skills, to earn while they learn, and get on in their career, while making sure businesses have the skilled workers they need to grow. It is important, therefore, that the training provided is relevant to meet the needs of both apprentices and employers.

Last September, Estyn produced a report that claimed that most providers of higher level apprenticeships did not manage them well and that many courses are outdated. Estyn went on to say that a failing among providers saw workers in Wales having to travel to England to get training. Could the Minister advise what progress has been made in implementing Estyn's recommendations to ensure people receive quality, up-to-date training here in Wales?

Good-quality career advice is essential to promote the benefits that apprenticeships can bring to students at an early stage. Concerns have been expressed about the quality and the availability of careers advice, citing the shortage of trained career advisors and lack of knowledge of apprenticeships and vocational training by school staff. Could the Minister advise the Assembly if he is content with the availability of career advice in Wales and the accuracy of advice on vocational and educational training?

In Wales, women made up 60 per cent of apprentices in 2017. However, women are often guided towards apprenticeships in which they are paid less than men. In construction and engineering programmes, there was only one woman for every 23 men. Also, getting disabled people access to apprenticeships presents a considerable challenge. Less than 2 per cent of those on apprenticeship programmes are disabled people. How will the Minister tackle gender prejudice and the under-representation of disabled people in the apprenticeship system? Ethnic minority representation on apprenticeship programmes remains static, at around 3 per cent of the total. How will the Minister ensure that apprenticeships reflect more accurately the diverse population of Wales?

The Minister will be aware of the vital importance of farming in the Welsh economy. Only 1 per cent of the total number of apprenticeships available in Wales for the last two academic years were in agriculture. What action will the Minister take to ensure young people are getting the skills they need to ensure Wales has a competitive and productive farming industry?

Finally, Minister, last November, the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee expressed its disappointment at the lack of transparency surrounding the funding and operation of the Welsh Government's apprenticeship programme. Concerns were expressed about the criteria used to make decisions about allocating funding, the amount of funding available for each level of non-degree apprenticeships, and the 10 per cent fund seemingly reserved for lower level apprenticeships. In your response, Minister, please could you commit to providing the greater transparency requested by the committee? Thank you.

I think I counted five questions there. I will try to answer as many of them as I can.

Your first point, about the report done by Estyn into training providers: last year, Estyn found that two of the three providers that were inspected were 'good' and the other was 'adequate'. Clearly, adequate is not good enough and we are reviewing the position about the quality of standards. And as well, I am aware that the economy committee and the Welsh Government are also reviewing the regional skills partnership.

You asked about careers advice. You'll be aware of the announcement of the Working Wales advice service, which is rationalising many of the programmes that we already have: Jobs Growth Wales, ReAct and so on. Some of that support will be delivered by Careers Wales once the procurement exercise is completed. We're certainly not complacent about the quality of careers advice, and we are taking active steps to improve that. 

You asked about disability and equality, and I believe I addressed that in the statement, with the publication of the toolkit.

And you asked, finally, about agriculture, which I have to confess I will have to write to you about.FootnoteLink

Information further to Plenary

Thank you for your statement. There has been some success in this area, so I’d like to welcome the headline figures, but the statement does give us a very idealistic picture, which masks some of the problems that are developing in this area.

The first thing that I have to ask is: could we have a better delivery system in terms of learning in the workplace? At present, money will be procured by training providers, which, to a certain extent, have created a false market, because they’re sustained by Welsh Government funding. Do you think it would be better to tackle apprenticeships by having an education system for individuals and funding apprenticeships in a way that reflects that? Have you considered alternative models that would see new partnerships with local authorities and FE colleges, for example, and linking employers directly, or through non-profit organisations, rather than private training providers? In Denmark, for example, apprenticeships and training based in the workplace are funded by the central Government and the regional Government, working directly with employers and ensuring that apprenticeships, and those who receive training, are funded through public education services. This gives more flexibility and portability if, for example, someone would like to change their apprenticeship while staying in that education system. So, I’d like to ask you whether you’ve looked at alternative models.

Could you also outline briefly the decision that was made to exclude the current procurement exercise for the employment support programme Wales Working? I tried to ask a question last week, but it wasn’t chosen, but the sector found that this procurement had been excluded, but Assembly Members hadn’t had the statement until the end of last week. If this is a new strategy with a new agenda, how is continuing with the old system going to achieve that? I’d like to understand the Government’s thinking on that.

Moving on to Welsh language apprenticeships, a number of us are very concerned about the figures that I’ve seen from Cymdeithas yr Iaith from 2017 to 2019. Only 230 out of the 58,665, or 0.39 per cent, were Welsh-medium apprenticeships. If we are really serious about reaching the million Welsh speakers that we discuss here every day, then we need a variety of different skills through Welsh-medium apprenticeships. How are you going to expand this number significantly and ensure that appropriate areas of Wales can have more apprenticeships through the medium of Welsh? For example, if we have housing associations in areas where Welsh is very strong, shouldn’t apprenticeships have more access to that kind of apprenticeship through the medium of Welsh? What are you going to do about that?

As has been stated earlier, the Equalities and Human Rights Commission has said that we need to do much more work to get women into apprenticeships and not just in those apprenticeships that women are often linked to historically. There are a number of opportunities in the building and manufacturing industries, but it’s men, chiefly, who are having access to those and then getting better pay because of that. So, what are you going to do to ensure that that inequality comes to an end?

I’ve brought this issue to you before in terms of the potential to give free transport to those who are undertaking apprenticeships, if, perhaps, they live a long distance away from where they want to get to. I’ve had people in my area saying that it’s impossible for them to travel to their apprenticeships because they can’t get there to do that apprenticeship. So, what are you doing about that?

Finally, I met with Universities Wales yesterday about degree apprenticeships, and they said that they are quite frustrated about the very narrow confines through which people can access that money in relation to the Welsh Government's priorities of digital, and they're telling me that people are going in their droves to England to take part in these apprenticeship opportunities at a degree level. That means we're losing our brightest and our best to England for these degree apprenticeships. So, you said you were potentially going to be expanding the areas through which people could access degree apprenticeships. When are you going to do that? Because Universities Wales is not a body that usually gets quite het up about things, but they seemed very animated about this yesterday. If they are feeling confined by what they can offer here in Wales, then, surely, we need to be addressing that.

Thank you. I think there were six questions there—I'll try my best to briefly answer those. 

Your first point about private training providers and was there an argument for a mixed economy and moving to a different provision—I think that's a very interesting idea. I'd certainly welcome the opportunity to see more social enterprises and co-operatives providing training, and I'd be interested in discussing that further and receiving any ideas that Bethan Jenkins has. 

Your question about the procurement exercise for Working Wales—that has been delayed because of a concern about the evaluation methodology that was used and, based on legal advice, we've decided to rerun the framework. That's why there was the delay.

On the question of the Welsh language, the figures I have is that in 2016-17, just over 4 per cent of apprenticeships were formally assessed in Welsh, and an additional 8 per cent used Welsh in some part of their training. And I think one of the challenges we have is the number of people who are willing to do the whole of their apprenticeship though the medium of Welsh. But we are working with Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol in seeing what more we can do, and a plan was published in December, setting out some steps. So, we're certainly not being complacent about that.

The question on the women apprenticeships was well made—I certainly agree with the sentiment. There are a number of different initiatives in this area already, but we can certainly do more, and I'd be happy to write and set out some of the activity we currently have in place, and if you have suggestions for more that we can do, we'd certainly welcome the opportunity to discuss that too.

You mentioned the case for free transport. As you know, we have a White Paper currently under consultation for the future of transport in Wales. It's tempting to look at different groups and suggest that free transport would be beneficial for them, as undoubtedly it would, but I think we need to take a more strategic judgment about how we structure the future of public transport in Wales, and whether or not there's a role for free transport for the whole population or sections of the population as part of that. Certainly, there are no options off the table on that, as we look at strengthening our public transport sector.

And, finally, on degree apprenticeships—I'm sure universities are angry, because, in England, as I mentioned, the programme has wildly overspent, and one of the reasons for that is employers are classing things like MBAs, for example, as apprenticeships. So, they're spending merrily on such programmes, blowing the budget as they go. So, universities are doing extremely well out of it in England. You'll forgive us for not following in that—what we think—hedonistic manner, and that we instead take an evidence-based approach on what we think is the right strategic fit for the Welsh economy. We've started with digital as a degree apprenticeship, we're about to launch engineering, and we're looking at other areas. But we think we're right to be taking a more methodical and strategic approach rather than simply recategorising degree courses as apprenticeships to deal with this voucher system they have in England, which I'm sure universities would like us to do, but we're going to take a different approach in Wales.

Thank you for your statement. I think it's really important that we look at this with a very hard-nosed approach, because there's been a lot of concern recently about young people being encouraged to go into university education, which doesn't actually give them the sort of skills they need to get a decent job, and that all it does is load them with a lot of debt. So, there's quite a moral hazard there in terms of what universities may be doing in the case of some young people who, actually, are not going to get what they need out of university education. And it seems to me that apprenticeships are a way in which we somehow re-engineer the UK economy, which is far too overbalanced by the emphasis on what goes on in the City of London and the financial services industry, as opposed to what needs to be going on in manufacturing, particularly in new industries as new technology changes and evolves.

I have a particular concern about the numbers of women going into higher paid areas of the economy. Obviously, there are quite a lot of women going into apprenticeships, but they tend to be in the lower paid jobs like childcare and hairdressing. Whilst, obviously, childcare is a fantastically important career, it's not where the money is to be made. In the meantime, there's a huge need for precision skills in construction and engineering. It doesn't require you to be physically strong, it requires you to be precise and have good design skills. It's noticeable that there are only 360 female apprentices, compared to 8,300 men. That's one woman for every 23 male. You get the opposite story in healthcare and public services. 

So, I just wondered if you agree with the suggestion that there could be positive action, such as reserving places for protected groups who are under-represented in particular fields, or whether ensuring that, where there are equally good candidates, we take the one who is under-represented. Equally, I think it's of concern that there's a really small number of people with disabilities registered as doing apprenticeships, because it seems to me that they may have a disability but that doesn't mean they aren't very well qualified to do a lot of different types of apprenticeships. Only 1.5 per cent of those on apprenticeships are, I believe, disabled. 

The area that I'm particularly interested in, as well as the construction and engineering industries, where I think new ways of construction require those precision skills—there's also the need for new skills to enable us to add value to the food industry. We're very good at being primary producers of food, but we're not so good at actually processing it here in Wales to enable us to add value to the Welsh economy rather than to somebody else's economy. I just wondered if you could give us any indication as to how we could improve the numbers of apprenticeships going into new forms of irrigation, understanding how computers can be tracking what the soil balance is, and additives—these are all things that require precision skills and certainly don't require you to be necessarily physically strong. 

I'd like to thank Jenny Rathbone for her comments. She's certainly right—and this is why we're putting the emphasis on apprenticeships at level 3and above—that the evidence is quite clear that higher level apprenticeships deliver higher value skills and improve the life chances of the people doing them, which is why we've taken the decision to prioritise skills at this level. That's clearly not without its difficulties and its critics, but the emerging evidence is suggesting that we are right to do that.

Balanced against that is some of the comments you made at the end, Jenny Rathbone, about the need to support people in foundational industries who traditionally have had lower skills. We need to create a pipeline of skills so that people can progress up the ladder. The examples you gave are well made because they show that, even in areas like food production and care, there is still higher value added activity. The development of precision agriculture, for example, does require more technical know-how. 

This is something that we're keeping under review. The first cohort of degree apprenticeships are focusing on digital and engineering, which would certainly be open to some of the approaches that you've discussed. That is something that we'll be keeping an eye on as the evidence emerges. And that's a key point of our approach in Wales—this is evidence led. We're taking the evidence from the regional skills partnerships, from labour market information, and from employers in keeping our offer under review, which is not something that's happening to the same extent in England.

The points on disability and reserving places for protected groups are well made. We recently launched our disability action plan, as I mentioned, which we've done in consultation with disability bodies, which sets out an ambitious agenda to broaden training opportunities for disabled people. But this is an area across the board that we're not doing well enough in, and I certainly would be interested in any ideas you have for things that we should be doing that we're not currently doing or consulting upon. But you were right to challenge us on that. The same stands for the gender issue. We are acutely aware of the gender imbalance. We have, as I said, as part of our equality toolkit, produced modules on gender and on bias, and you're right to identify the issue. We have taken some steps; I'm sure there is more that we can do, and we would certainly be interested in any suggestions Members have. 

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for his statement today? Deputy Minister, UKIP welcomed the announcement from the Welsh Government in February 2017 that you were committed to establishing 100,000 apprenticeships over a five-year period. It has for far too long been a neglected element in economic growth. We also believe that focusing on apprenticeships above level 3 was a well-founded decision, as benchmarking has shown that this is where we get the highest returns on investment. It was also stated at the time that there would be better performance measurement, clearer pathways, more awareness, increased numbers taking science, technology, engineering and mathematics subjects, and an increased integration between apprenticeships and further education. Could the Deputy Minister confirm that these aspirations are also being achieved, as well as the increase in numbers?

Deputy Minister, those brought up in the 1960s and 1970s benefited from apprenticeships that lasted over five years. It taught participants not only the working skills, but also how to behave in the workplace and gave them a sense of responsibility. Indeed, it could be said that it made those involved more aspirational, empowering them to become involved in management and higher posts within their working environment. The net result of this is that it gave added value to society as a whole.

It augurs well that 31,360 apprenticeship learning programmes were started in 2017-18—an increase, I believe, of 30 per cent compared to 2016-17—and 56,635 since the target of 100,000 was introduced. But I notice that the highest take-up has been in healthcare and the public sector. Whilst these are, of course, to be welcomed, it would be gratifying to see a comparative increase in apprenticeships in the private sector. Again, it is gratifying to note that this programme is proving to be so successful, in that it is exceeding its original targets. However, we understand that this success is now bringing a strain on funding. But, surely, Deputy Minister, this programme is so important to our economy and the apprentices engaged in it that it is essential that funding is made available. This is not simply about the present, but also the future of Wales and those who choose to live and work here. The rewards are there to be realised. The test comes, of course, at the end of these apprenticeships, in seeing how many go on to full-time jobs and within the disciplines of their apprenticeships. 

One question I must ask is: does the figure of 56,635—over 50 per cent achievement—contain those who were already in apprenticeships prior to the scheme and hoovered up into the new scheme, or are they completely new?

Also, does the Minister not agree there cannot be equality of esteem between vocational qualifications and those in the so-called academic sphere unless apprentices are funded in exactly the same way as those in universities or colleges?

Well, I'd like to thank David Rowlands for his comments. On the question of funding, there has been something of a conjuring trick taking place by the UK Government on the funding of apprenticeships, because we were not given additional funding to reflect the levy. The levy is, in fact, a tax on businesses and we've not had the funding passed on—£120 million or so was cut by the Government in England on public sector apprenticeships, and, lo and behold, £120 million appeared in our budget to fund this scheme. So, the overall funding has not increased, and, as I outlined at the beginning, while our approach has shown itself justified in the way that our scheme is on track, the English scheme is over budget and 25 per cent under target. So, I think we are confident that our approach is the right approach. And, as David Rowlands asked, it's not simply focused on the numbers, but it's part of a broader economic approach where we are tailoring our apprenticeships to support the Welsh economy, to deliver higher skills that are focused on the needs of regional economies, to offer better routes through from education into employment and also to encourage a greater employer contribution. It's not just for the state to provide apprenticeships; this is something that businesses must do. We're happy to work in partnership, but, too often, some employers are looking to shift their costs onto the Government, and that's something that we need to be confident in pushing back on.

On the specific question of whether or not the figure of 56,635 included people already in employment, I can confirm that that figure does exclude people who have left early or who have transferred onto them, so that is a standalone figure.

Thank you, Deputy Minister, for bringing forward this statement to the Chamber today. Apprenticeships are crucial, and I'm a big believer that today's apprentices are the leaders of tomorrow. We heard earlier that last week was National Apprenticeship Week. To mark that, I had the great opportunity to go back to my roots as an apprentice engineer. I was shown around DRB Group on Deeside industrial estate, where I served my time as an apprentice, and I was able to see how the company has changed, evolved and progressed since my time there. I also had the opportunity to meet a university graduate from my constituency, Joel Thomas, who has now gone on to go back to study as an apprentice support analyst to gain those valuable skills that you pick up on the job in the workplace.

We just heard in David Rowlands's contribution then of the opportunities growing up in the 1960s and 1970s, so I do welcome the Welsh Government's ambitious plans for the future of apprenticeships to address the skills gaps and opportunities, because we still feel the effects from a Thatcher-led UK Government back in the 1980s on this issue.

I want to begin by making the points that I've made before in this Chamber—I'm aware I've made them to previous Government Ministers with apprenticeships and lifelong learning in their portfolios. It's similar to Bethan Sayed's contribution, surrounding the training of apprentices and how we train them. 

Deputy Minister, do you agree with me that it is crucial and very, very important for the future of apprentices and future apprentices to have fellow work colleagues with the necessary skills to transfer their knowledge across to the apprentice? We know that many of those who are currently training apprentices will be reaching retirement age in some industries, just as my mentor has retired recently. Therefore, Deputy Minister, it is my belief that we need to train recent graduate apprentices to become coaches, which will enable them to deliver the results we need for the future.

So, with that in mind, what plans has the Government got to try to deal with this issue? Will the Deputy Minister commit that the Government will work with further education institutions, colleges and industry, for example, to create a package for graduate apprentices to pick up the necessary skills to transfer their knowledge to future apprentices?

Also, on the issue of ensuring that we have a different range of apprenticeships, which is also a very important thing to make sure that we have a diverse economy, my constituency is rightly hailed as the home of engineering, manufacturing and technology, and I speak heavily on that because that's my background. However, there are opportunities in many other sectors of the economy, and we need to do more to create those opportunities in the sectors people wouldn't traditionally think of for having an apprenticeship.

Deputy Minister, I know you already do, but will you continue to work to ensure that people have a diverse range of opportunities to create and gain apprenticeships in markets that aren't there now? We should never forget that apprenticeships are an investment in our future. We're giving current and future generations a chance to prosper, we're giving members of our community the chance to retrain and upskill, and we must do all we can to support them, to support industry and to support apprenticeships. Diolch. 

Thank you, Jack Sargeant, for those comments, and I must say that having the first-hand testimony of somebody who's fairly recently come through the apprenticeship system adds greatly to the depth of the discussion we have in our National Assembly. And I know from first hand, having attended meetings with Jack with Tata, that he's able to draw on his own experience to inform that discussion, and I think that adds enormously to our Senedd.

On the point of the ageing workforce and the knowledge being lost, I think he makes a very strong point about the value of coaching that graduate apprentices could provide, and I'll certainly take that away and discuss that with officials and write to him with our response.    

Thank you very much, Deputy Minister.