3. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services: The Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:50 pm on 26 March 2019.

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Photo of Gareth Bennett Gareth Bennett UKIP 3:50, 26 March 2019

Thanks, Minister, for your statement today. I do appreciate that for many Members of the Chamber, and several past Members who have been mentioned, this has been a long campaign. It is an emotive issue, so I am mindful of what I say, but I think we do need to look carefully at any proposed legislation in this area.

Minister, you say that this proposed legislation merely closes a loophole and that it doesn't create a new criminal offence. I agree that, technically, that's the case, but Crown Prosecution Service guidelines are quite clear on where the law lies on this currently. Currently, the defence for smacking a child only covers reasonable chastisement. So, logically, people who are unreasonably punishing a child in a physical manner are open to prosecution as it stands. So, there is an argument that we don't actually need this legislation, that this could confuse the issue, and that, logically, people will be open to prosecution for reasonable chastisement, which seems to me an unreasonable application of the law. So, how can we ensure that parents are not punished for legitimately disciplining their children who may be misbehaving? What safeguards are there going to be against needless prosecutions in these instances?

There are potential problems of the police, the CPS and social services dealing with a large increase in complaints. Now, I appreciate what you just said, which I think was very sensible, when you said that you were looking at two years to bed in any change in legislation, and that there would be a public awareness campaign. I think that if we are going to go down this road, that is going to be a very important element. Siân Gwenllian was also raising the issue that, in harness with your legislation, we may need more support for parents. You mentioned that health visitors and midwives could potentially be used, I think, in an educational way, in encouraging parenting that doesn't involve physical chastisement and, of course, we need to avoid that as far as we possibly can. So, I agree with all that. The bit that Siân asked you that you didn't perhaps answer was about any increase in resources to fund such a campaign and to increase that public awareness, and also whether there will be any resource implications regarding the police, the CPS and social services, particularly when the legislation first kicks in.

Finally, New Zealand, you've mentioned. You're going to look at—or you are looking at, rather—the example of New Zealand and, indeed, the 53 other countries that have introduced this legislation. I appreciate that you are doing that. If we could have more detailed responses to how they have dealt with this, either today or at a later date in the proceedings. Thank you.