3. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services: The Children (Abolition of Defence of Reasonable Punishment) (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:53 pm on 26 March 2019.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Julie Morgan Julie Morgan Labour 3:53, 26 March 2019

Thank you, Gareth Bennett, for your contribution. You mentioned closing the loophole. It's not just closing the loophole in terms of physical punishment in the home; it's closing the loophole about physical punishment in Sunday schools, in leisure facilities, in quite a wide range of non-educational settings. Anybody who is looking after a child in those settings, at the moment, is able to use the defence of reasonable punishment, which I think is quite a surprise to many people. So, that is a loophole that is being closed, as well as the issue of parents in the home.

In terms of the work involving the CPS, the police and social services, I have met with all those bodies. I met with the police and crime commissioners, the chief police constables, the CPS and the social services, and they are all in support of what we are doing. We will be setting up an implementation group. We will be setting that up fairly soon, and, obviously, if the legislation is passed by the Assembly, that will continue to operate during the period until the final implementation. On that implementation group, we plan for these different groups to work together very closely in order to look at any implications in a very detailed way, so we will be involving all those organisations that he mentioned. Of course, all of them have said that it may need more resource in order to make this happen.

It’s very difficult to actually determine how much extra resource is needed, because, obviously, we haven't got rid of the defence of reasonable punishment before, so it’s very difficult to say how much is needed. We've made an estimate of £4 million over five years, which would cover an awareness-raising programme—a very big public awareness-raising programme—and looking at increased support for parents.

There is more information about what’s happened in New Zealand. It’s very difficult to find out from all the countries that have done this something that you can actually link and use for what’s happening here, but what they did find in New Zealand was that the number of parents who actually ended up in the justice system was very small and, calculating on the New Zealand evidence, it’s been estimated—although this is just an estimate—that, in Wales, it would be under 10 in any year.