Item 8 on the agenda this afternoon is the legislative consent motion on the Rivers Authorities and Land Drainage Bill, and I call on the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs to move the motion. Lesley Griffiths.

Motion NDM7037 Lesley Griffiths

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 29.6 agrees that provisions in the Rivers Authorities and Land Drainage Bill, in so far as they fall within the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales, should be considered by the UK Parliament.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I welcome the opportunity to present this LCM on the Rivers Authorities and Land Drainage Bill to the Assembly, and I would like to take the opportunity to thank members of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee for considering the Bill in readiness for today's debate. 

This LCM has been triggered due to the discovery of obstacles to raising the expenses of internal drainage boards covering Wales and England. Natural Resources Wales is the IDB for the whole of Wales. As the law stands, IDBs are unable to vary their rates. The Bill will rectify the situation by introducing a mechanism enabling them to do this and apply the correct levies and drainage rates. The memorandum was laid on 15 March. Since then, we've reconsidered the Bill and concluded there are two additional clauses within the competence of the National Assembly. This is due to a change in the approach taken by the Welsh Government and the UK Government in deciding whether provisions in UK Bills require the consent of the National Assembly, and a revised memorandum was laid on 18 April. 

Consenting to provision being made within the Bill in relation to Wales will allow NRW to calculate the value of non-agricultural land in Wales through an alternative methodology, as they will be able to make use of alternative data for these calculations. They will also be able to use an alternative methodology for calculation of the value of agricultural land and buildings to avoid the potential distortion of the apportionment calculation. 

I'm grateful to the committee for its scrutiny and pleased they found no reason to object to the Assembly agreeing the LCM. In their report, the committee sought clarification on whether regulations referred to in clause 5(6) of the Bill would engage the statutory instrument consent motion process under Standing Order 30A. This is a typical provision conferring power to make consequential amendments. It is the Welsh Government's view that any future regulations made under this provision would need to be assessed at that time to see if they would engage the statutory instrument consent memorandum process under Standing Order 30A. Should such regulations make amendments to primary legislation—including Measures and Acts of the Assembly—that fall within the Assembly's legislative competence, then an SI consent memorandum would be required. How such power could make consequential amendments to Measures and Acts of the Assembly was also made known in paragraph 17 of the memorandum made on 18 April. 

The committee also asked me to clarify why the Welsh Government was not in a position to introduce its own legislation to bring about this change in Wales. The Welsh Government always follows the principle that primary legislation in devolved areas should be enacted by this Assembly. However, there will be circumstances in which it is sensible and advantageous if provision that would be within the Assembly's legislative competence is sought for Wales in UK parliamentary Bills, with the consent of the Assembly. There is no Welsh Government Bill currently before the Assembly, or planned to be introduced in this Assembly year, that would be a suitable vehicle to contain the provisions of the the Rivers Authorities and Land Drainage Bill. I move the motion. 

Thank you. Can I call on Dai Lloyd to speak on behalf of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee?

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee discussed the Welsh Government’s LCM in respect of the Rivers Authorities and Land Drainage Bill at our meeting on 1 April.

On 18 April, over the Easter period, the Minister wrote to the committee advising us of her intention to lay a revised LCM, which would seek consent for clauses 3 and 5, in addition to clauses 2 and 4. The revised LCM is discussed here today. As has already been mentioned, the report was laid before the Assembly last week, on 24 April.

We note the Welsh Government's reasons as to why, in its view, making provision for Wales in the UK Bill is appropriate. However, we still believe that it's unclear as to why the Welsh Government was not in a position to introduce its own legislation, and we would ask for further clarification on this point. After all, issues in relation to rivers and land drainage have been devolved to Wales for 20 years, and the Welsh Government should therefore be in a position to introduce its own legislation, without relying on the efforts of the UK Government, which hasn't been responsible for these areas for 20 years. 

We note that the Welsh Government’s view, as expressed in the revised LCM, is that clauses 2, 3, 4 and 5 of the Bill require the consent of the National Assembly. We further note that the view of the UK Government is that consent is needed in respect of clauses 2 to 8 of the Bill—that's 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8. We, as a committee, agree with the view of the UK Government. We believe that clauses 2 to 8 require the consent of the Assembly to the extent that they are within the legislative competence of this Assembly in accordance with section 108A of the Government of Wales Act 2006. 

I heard what you had to say about the SICM process, because in terms of clause 5 of this Bill, we noted that sub-section 6 permits the amendment of Measures or Acts of the National Assembly via regulations without necessarily coming to this place. We have asked for further clarification as to whether such regulations would engage the statutory instrument consent memorandum process under Standing Order 30A. Because, again, there is a key role for this Senedd, as a legislature for the whole of Wales, to scrutinise the legislation that is passed. It's not just a matter between the UK Government and the Welsh Government. That's not what these processes should be. Thank you. 

I call on the Minister to reply to the debate. 

Thank you, and thank you to Dai Lloyd for raising those points. I set out the reasoning why we thought the LCM was appropriate. I do think the consent is technical and it's very non-contentious. So, we thought it was a pragmatic approach that we would to that. I will ensure that your comments are fed back to DEFRA also and, if there's anything further, I would be happy to write to the Member. 

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36. 

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

And that brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you. 

The meeting ended at 18:47.