Item 6 on our agenda this afternoon is a debate on the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee report, 'Wales' future relationship with Europe and the world', and I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—David Rees.

Motion NDM7038 David Rees

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee on its Inquiry into Wales’ future relationship with Europe and the World, which was laid in the Table Office on 21 February 2019.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to open today’s debate, noting our report on Wales’s future relationship with Europe and the world, and therefore move the motion. Can I remind Members this is actually the second stage of our work, because we did, in 2018, publish a report, which was stage 1, that was focused on Europe, and this has gone wider to look at Europe and the world? Before I start my speech, can I just put on record my thanks to the clerking team and the staff in the Research Service and European office of the Commission for the work they have undertaken on behalf of the committee? Without those individuals, we are always going to be struggling, and we very much appreciate the efforts they put in.

In gathering the evidence for this report, we actually heard from academics and stakeholders, and we spent a lot of time thinking about Wales’s role on the international stage. Indeed, the Brexit process has brought new urgency and added impetus to this work, although we are now delayed a little bit on Brexit, and we've got a bit more time. But it is important we do look where we are in the future.

We looked beyond Wales, which is crucial, and spoke to representatives of Norway, the Basque Country, Quebec and Switzerland on our visits to London. We also spoke to representatives of Ukraine, of New Zealand, of Ireland and many other nations in visits to Brussels and beyond. Our sincerest thanks go to those individuals, who gave their time and commitment to listen to us, but also to feed into our inquiry on where they saw that future relationships can exist and how they worked in the relationships they wanted to do.

Now, our work found that, in the past, the Welsh Government's activities then, in terms of international engagement, had been too patchy in our view, and incoherent, and it is important that we see this change. We made a total of 11 recommendations in our report, and I am pleased that the Minister has indicated that they've accepted or accepted in principle all of them—though we always question that term 'accept in principle', sometimes. We'll see how that goes.

But, turning to the first couple of recommendations, it's abundantly clear that Wales needs a new strategy of how we engage with the world after Brexit, or, actually, how we engage with the world full stop. Brexit is just an example of why we need to do it. This new strategy needs to be bold. It needs to set out the scale of our ambition as a nation. We must not be frightened of going perhaps that one step further than we would conventionally do. In leading on the development of the new strategy, we welcome the creation of the new Minister for international relations, with a seat at the Cabinet. However, it is clear to us that many aspects of international relations are cross-portfolio, and therefore we want to actually see more examples of that: economy, environment, education portfolios. It is clear that it is not a single subject area.

We want the Minister to lead on that co-ordination across Government, and, in the report, we did recommend a Cabinet sub-committee. We acknowledge that the Minister says this could be an appropriate mechanism, but she alludes to the need for full Cabinet discussions on internationalisation. I fully acknowledge this, but how do we have a formal structure that ensures a cross-portfolio approach? That's the question. It's all well and good having this informal concept, but we need a formal structure, and that's why I want some further information from the Minister today on the progress towards co-ordinating activities across Government, in addition to the bilateral meetings she intends to have with those colleagues, but where is the formal structure where that happens?

Wales's future role in Europe after Brexit was a perennial issue during the course of our work. It is clear to us that, whatever the eventual shape and outcome of Brexit—and I say that now, 'whatever the shape of the outcome of Brexit', because we still don't know—Europe and our relationship with the European Union will continue to be important in the years ahead. It is for this reason that we support the retention of the Welsh Government offices in Brussels.

We also heard that Wales has historically enjoyed the benefits of a number of European programmes, such as the student mobility programme, Erasmus+, and the research and innovation programme, Horizon 2020. Currently, it is the Welsh Government's position to advocate continued participation in those programmes through the UK. We want this ambition to go further so that, if the UK Government fails to secure this, then the Welsh Government should go ahead and explore securing participation in its own right in devolved areas and where there are clear benefits to Wales. I think this week's example of the HE student fee issue highlights how the UK Government may not be in synchronisation with the Welsh Government's thinking on our relationship with the EU and EU citizens.

This is what we are calling for in recommendation 5: for the Welsh Government to actually explore and have exploratory talks, and to report back to this Assembly in the autumn term, and, with the autumn term including 31 October, which is now the new deadline, perhaps it's appropriate that we do that, because that's the next cliff edge that we face.

In addition to the multilateral relationships and networks that we enjoy, Wales also has a number of bilateral relationships, which will continue to form an important part in Wales's external engagement work in the future. During our work, we've found that the countries and sub-state actors across the international stage that operate most successfully have clearly prioritised bilateral relationships based on common interests. In particular, the approach of the Basque Country and of Quebec were examples that we could learn from, and I am fully aware that the Basque Country have been to this institution and that we have had committees that have gone over to the Basque Country. They are an example of where we may want to learn how they manage the relationships and particularly bilateral relationships, and how they've prioritised them.

Our recommendation 6 calls on the Welsh Government to review the bilateral relationships that Wales currently has, in order to assess which of them can be strengthened and deepened in the future. I am pleased that the Minister, in her written response, has signalled that this work is under way, and again it would be helpful if she can give the Assembly an indication of timescales for the completion of this work, so that we have an understanding of where we are and where we can expect to be in the times ahead of us. We all know that time is going to be a major factor in the future.

Turning to the question of our diaspora, we are clear that more can be done to make use of that diaspora. Although definitive figures do not exist, a study published in 2006—and I accept that's 13 years ago—suggested that as many as 11 million people have Welsh ancestry in the USA alone. Better engagement with the Welsh diaspora could be the key to unlocking some of Wales’s ambitions for international relations after Brexit. Again, I'm aware that the Welsh caucus in Washington is an example of where we could be using some of that. 

Our report calls for the creation of an action plan for engaging that diaspora. However, the Minister’s written response suggests that the Welsh Government will not commit to this and instead is undertaking preliminary work to assess what is already happening in this area. I therefore ask the Minister to keep the committee updated on this work so that our ambitions can be realised. 

Turning to recommendation 10, whilst I do not wish to repeat arguments made previously in the Assembly about the need to improve inter-governmental mechanisms, I would like to give the Minister an opportunity, if she has the ability—and I've raised this with the Brexit Minister—perhaps to improve on the limited detail available in her written response, in particular, if she could confirm a date for when the publication of the review of the JMC will be available to us, because it's almost a year—it's actually a year—since the review was undertaken and we are not yet clear of any date of publication of that review, and it is critical to understand how Wales can have an input into various aspects of international relations. 

In terms of the Welsh Government’s overseas offices, we note the expansion in recent years of Wales’s presence abroad. However, it is vital that these offices know what they are doing and that their activities are in line with the forthcoming strategy. I note that the Minister’s response does not commit to an audit in the way that we have suggested. Perhaps she'd like to review that, because it is important we understand what is the purpose of the office, why is it where it is, how will we measure what it's doing, so that we can have a clear understanding that they are in the right place, doing the right thing for Wales.

Finally, I’d like to talk a little about Welsh soft power—this is to say Wales’s cultural and economic influence around the world. We heard that some of Wales’s unique assets—our language, our arts, our values—could be better used to carve out a niche for ourselves on the world stage. We have seen other nations such as Scotland and Ireland do exactly that. To achieve this we need to be clearer about what our unique selling points are and develop those in a way that gains international recognition. To that end, we recommended that the new international strategy places a greater emphasis on soft power. I am pleased that the Minister has accepted the need for this. I think it was evident when we were Brussels last how UK representation looked at Wales's soft power mechanisms as an example of how they may want to do that when we leave the EU. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, we are facing a period of seemingly accelerating flux and change across the world. Perhaps now is the time for us in Wales to redouble our efforts and to work together to ensure that our voice is heard on the international stage much louder than it has been. I commend this report to the National Assembly, and look forward to hearing the contribution of other Members today.

I thank the Chair for his leadership of our work in this area and the clerks for their support. I look forward to hearing from the Minister. Some people, I think, have questioned our participative approach of asking for ideas, but I think it is a good one and I would like to commend it. Although on the first day in office you haven't come to us with a list of what you'll be doing, you're having this period of listening and consulting others, and I think that's a very valid approach and I look forward to seeing the outcome from it, hopefully including consideration of our report and the debate today. 

I want to draw on three of our visits, in particular, for my remarks: firstly, to our office in Brussels and the activity around that, second to the Basque delegation in London, and third to the Quebecois delegation in London. I went to our office in Brussels wondering if it needed significant change and a new focus in light of Brexit, thinking that what it would be doing would be very different in future, from outside the European Union, to what it had been doing within the European Union. I left thinking that the need for change was less radical than my initial presumption, and I think the reason for that was something that the Chair got over in his contribution—that what that office has been doing is largely an exercise in soft power. Now, there are certain hard diplomatic interfaces, most notably with EU funding that Wales has received, also, to at least some degree, our position that we've had within the Committee of the Regions. However, most of the work of that office has been making friends, building connections, reaching out, finding people to work with Wales on our agenda. And I think a lot of that focus and that skill set will be the same post Brexit as it has been before, and I think we really did notice, both from the delegation itself, but also talking to a number of other people, such as the Confederation of British Industry in Brussels, the extent to which UKRep is having to change its focus from the hard diplomacy of speaking in plenary at a council meeting and voting in particular ways, to actually seeking to influence and build allies, and perhaps there should have been more of that before, but UKRep is having to change what it did and is looking to Wales, to be fair to the CBI and to some of the other larger private sector organisations, for how it adjusts its diplomatic representation to a world that will have a greater focus on soft power rather than institutional levers within the European Union. 

I want to say a bit about the Basque and the Quebecois delegations, because I think they emphasise two types of what we might be trying to achieve for Wales through these international relations. The Basque approach was again—and this was a surprise to me—a very hard-edged economic approach, and it was connected with the economy Ministry and what it wanted to do is it wanted to increase Basque exports and it wanted to get more foreign direct investment coming into the Basque Country. They seemed to be its two main objectives. They were very well set up for doing it. It's a relatively well-off region within Spain, and they organise around that. And I think we need to consider is that what we want Wales to do, and, if so, our officers need to be in places that are larger sources of foreign direct investment, areas that are growing strongly or where there is a particular appetite for potential Welsh exports.

The second model I think was exemplified by Quebec more. There was also an economic aspect, and that aspect, I think, fitted quite well into what Canada was doing through its high commissioner, and there were very close relations. There was also this desire to promote Quebec from a perspective of its culture and its language, and also, I think, education. And what the structure was to do that and where it did that, it was more separate from Canada than it was on the economic aspects. And I think we need to think is that what we're trying to do as Wales: is it our particular culture? Is it the Welsh language? Is it education, perhaps sport? Are there particular things about Wales we want more people across the world to understand and know about and that we want to go out there and project? And I think we need to really understand the balance between that economic and that more cultural objective.

What I don't think we should be doing is simply trying to find other sub-state actors that we want to spend time with and be more like and 'we've got to have those connections'. I think there may be some of those connections, and, if you are a party that wants Wales to be independent, then you may want to spend time with those contacts, developing those relationships with other parties in sub-state nations that also want to break apart from those nations. But I don't believe that's what the Assembly as whole should be doing, and I would ask the Welsh Labour Government to consider very carefully what are the objectives. And I think we learnt a lot from going to the Basque delegation and going to Quebec, but I don't see the primary objective of these international relations as sub-state nations who see an independent future, or particularly working with Catalonia because they want to go in a certain direction—or some people there. Devolution for us has been a trajectory and a dynamic process, whereas for many of these other sub-state actors, there is a settlement—in Quebec or the Basque Country—with which they're pretty happy. Yes, let's learn from them, but let's focus on what we want to do, how much is about the economy, and how much is about cultural projection.

I welcome the recommendations of this report in its entirety. I hadn’t yet joined the committee when the inquiry was being conducted, but I would like to praise this piece of work and the skilful leadership provided by the Chair, David Rees. In the report, we see comprehensive and detailed recommendations as to which steps could be taken to increase the role of Wales at an international level in the next few years. Ensuring such a strategy is more important than ever in the shadow of Brexit. I welcome the fact that the Government has accepted seven of the recommendations, but I’m disappointed that another four, which were drawn up carefully, have only been accepted in principle. Fellow Members in this Chamber have noted concerns in the past about the Government’s practice of agreeing in principle to recommendations, as the impact of this, if truth be told, is that the recommendations aren’t implemented.

Recommendation 5 calls on the Welsh Government to explore with the EU the possibility of Wales’s continued participation in European programmes that are undertaken in devolved areas, adding that this should be progressed urgently. The Government’s response is inadequate to this, because it agrees that the work needs to be done but doesn’t want to commit to do it before the end of the year. I would urge the Government to reconsider its response to this recommendation and to proceed with the work as a matter of urgency.

I will turn now to the response to recommendation 8, which calls on the Government to commission an independent baseline analysis of the operation of the Government’s overseas offices. The Government states that it is giving further consideration to this recommendation as the strategy is drawn up. Again, a comprehensive strategy should be in place before then. Almost three years has passed since the referendum and a month since the first departure date.

Recommendation 7 calls on the Government to draw up an action plan for engaging with the Welsh diaspora. The Welsh Government’s response doesn’t show much ambition and does not provide much detail as to which countries would be prioritised. The response insists, rather, that much is being done in this area already, which is true, but there’s always room for improvement. It’s disappointing that Government doesn’t have greater ambition in this area. The Government’s response also states that we can’t have a one-size-fits-all approach. That’s a valid point, and I do agree that we should have diverse plans that dovetail, rather than have a static, single approach. But the truth is that these plans don’t exist in sufficient detail at the moment.

The Welsh diaspora contributes so much to our nation, building bridges with people who represent us at a global level. The Government should provide a clear vision in developing that relationship with the Welsh diaspora rather than simply providing warm words. Brexit makes all of this urgent. We need clear, ambitious action now rather than dragging your feet. Will the Government therefore commit to drawing up a detailed plan to build bridges with the Welsh diaspora?

I would also like to know what the latest is in terms of the Government’s international strategy, Global Wales. A problem with the Welsh Government website means that it’s impossible to find details of this work online. It’s ironic—and quite Kafkaesque, really—that it’s impossible to find information about a strategy that seeks to look out to the rest of the world. May I ask, therefore, where the is Government with this work? What is the timetable for it? Which principles will drive the work and what will the remit be? And finally, when can we expect a statement to be made by the Minister in the Chamber in order to provide Members with an update?

It’s about time that Wales took its place in the world as a proud, modern nation that’s looking to the future. We should build bridges with other states and stateless countries, such as Catalunya, in order to place economic and cultural foundations that we can build on as our nation travels on the journey towards full autonomy. Wales has a bright future, but we must build it ourselves. Thank you.

Like others, I'd like to start my contribution this afternoon by thanking the clerking team of the committee, and also thanking David Rees for his leadership of the committee on these matters.

I also wish to follow others in welcoming the appointment of a Minister for international relations. I enjoyed the session we had, Minister, on 21 January and I hope we'll be able to return to some of those matters in due course. It's an irony indeed of course that this appointment in itself has highlighted the need for an international strategy that perhaps we didn't appreciate fully before. Also, it's brought into sharp focus the extent to which we rely on EU institutions for our international profile and creating a framework for our international work.

But, this afternoon, I'd like to persuade the Government of two matters. Firstly, the vision and the ambition that is required to maximise the potential of any international strategy. And second, to be able to hold the Government to account to ensure that we have the information, the targets and the ambition described in a way that enables us to understand what the Government seeks to achieve by such a programme. 

Minister, in your response to the report, you described Wales as a European nation. Now, for much of our recent history, this would have been a contested description of our country, and it certainly remains a highly political description of our country. At one time—it takes us back, of course, to the days of Owain Glyndŵr and his seeking ambassadors from the papacy and elsewhere to recognise the state that he was seeking to create in our country at that time. But also, of course, because it defines Wales as a European nation without reference to the state of the United Kingdom, within which we are today. So it's a very political statement, and it's a statement, of course, that I welcome.

But it also is a statement that speaks of a much higher ambition and a much wider vision. Mark Reckless's contribution spoke about the almost transactional approach taken by the Basque Country, and that's a perfectly fair and reasonable approach to take, and I make no criticism of that. But the ambition that I believe the  Government here has in mind, and I hope it will express, is one that sees that transactional relationship between ourselves and others as the blocks upon which we will build, as a foundation and not the totality of an international role, and the role that we wish Wales to play on the international stage. 

In listening to this debate, I'm reminded of the conversation that we had with the New Zealand ambassador during the visit to Brussels. There, he was very, very clear: the international trade agreements that New Zealand seek to make are the basis upon which they seek to do other things. Certainly, you need to have all the arrangements in place to do trade, to make commercial agreements with different partners and organisations, but is that the totality of your vision? Is that the totality of what you seek to achieve on the international stage? For them it was not, and for us it must not be, either. The example used by the ambassador was that of sustainability. Perhaps after our debate later this afternoon, this is something we could also use to define a Welsh contribution to international affairs in the future. Others have spoken about the contribution we could make in terms of minority language and culture policy. That's something of which some of us already have experience, and I think it's something that we can also do. So I hope we have that ambition and vision. 

But let me say this, also: that will mean a change of culture in this place, and particularly for opposition parties, let me say. Too often, we have seen a political culture here where we count the pennies and we do not understand the vision. I want to see the Welsh Government investing in the network of offices it has and the network of relationships it develops, and that means that you can't be on the international stage without physically being on the international stage. So, rather than opposition parties spending time putting in freedom of information requests and asking for the cost of flights, perhaps it would be better that we take a more mature approach, where we seek to hold the Government to account for what it achieves and not simply where it goes. And I hope that that would be a far more mature approach to the debate that we have now.

In closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, I was lucky enough to enjoy—it turned out to be a 1-1 draw, and I think we got away with it—Wales playing Mexico in Pasadena, in the Rose Bowl, and some of you will know the stadium, across in California last year. It was a fantastic event—80,000 people watching Wales playing football. It doesn't happen very often. It hasn't always happened in my lifetime, I have to say. That is an opportunity for us to build a presence, to build an idea of what Wales is and what Wales can be, and the role that Wales wants to play. We have an opportunity to play a role with the soft power that has already been spoken about that not everybody has. We'll be, I hope, playing and winning the World Cup in Japan in a few months' time. I hope the Welsh Government will be maximising the impact that we can make from that as well. I hope that we will be able to see the opportunity of playing a full role on the international stage.

I'll finish with these remarks, Deputy Presiding Officer. One of the issues we need to define—and this is in the report and I'd be interested to understand what the Minister says in response—is our relationship with the United Kingdom Government. I believe the relationship with the United Kingdom Government can be a very powerful and positive relationship. We often criticise the UK Government here—and I do probably more than most—but the network of offices and the way that the Foreign Office works is a very, very powerful tool for us to use, and I believe that we should be working closely with the Foreign Office and working with the United Kingdom Government to maximise the impact of the network of embassies and consulates around the world so that we are able to maximise the impact that we can make for Wales wherever we may be.

Perhaps I can tell you, Deputy Presiding Officer, that I spent part of the Easter recess lecturing at the College of William and Mary on the subject, 'Britain after Brexit'. I have to say, the title was chosen in December, when it didn't seem so wildly improbable. I visited the National Library of Wales earlier in the year, and they knew of my connection with the college. They dug out from the archive a letter from Goronwy Owen, the great eighteenth century poet, about his preparations to take up a post teaching at the grammar school attached, then, to the College of William and Mary.

It strikes me that there are many astonishing connections that we should be keen to follow up on. In fact, at the library, they said, 'Did you know that there is a commemoration of him on the college campus?' I was slightly surprised at this, and so, during my visit, I did try to find out where this commemoration is. I went to the Swem library—the main library at the university—and they told me that, actually, the plaque is in the library. They told me where it was, and I went up and there's this magnificent plaque to Goronwy Owen. It commemorates his transformative work, really, in the eighteenth century for Welsh literature and celebrates the connection. It just reminded me of how wonderful it would be if we could do more with that. His famous poem, 'Hiraeth', for instance, has had a big, big impact on our culture, but the fact that he spent so much time in Virginia is something we should build on.

It wasn't an entirely happy episode. As poets are wont to, he was a little fond of electric soup. After a few years, I'm afraid the college moved him on, and he was moved on to Brunswick county, also in Virginia, and was curate there, which is rather a curious, perhaps, position to recover from a drink problem, but he was. He spent another 10 years there—in fact, he's buried in Brunswick county. I understand that a steady flow, if not a vast flow, of pilgrims make their way to his grave to this day. So, that's a great example of someone, I think, who connects us deeply.

It's possible that Goronwy Owen met Thomas Jefferson and that they overlapped—Owen was about 20 years older than Jefferson, and Jefferson was at the College of William and Mary in the late 1750s. Jefferson, famously, thought he was Welsh, or of Welsh ancestry. It's very unlikely that he was—modern scholarship really eviscerates all our myth making, doesn't it? We now think it's unlikely that he was of Welsh descent, but Jefferson lived all of his life thinking he was, and if you can't build on that connection then, again, there's a poverty of ambition there.

Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio and several other states had very significant Welsh immigration into those states in the earlier colonial years and then in the early industrial revolution just after the republic was established. It's something, again, we can really, really build on. 

It's interesting that it's later waves of immigrants, particular the Irish and Italians, that really embedded this concept of 'Italian-American' or 'Irish-American', but we should remember the significant part that Welsh men and women played in the history, particularly the early history, of the United States. So, I think the Welsh diaspora, and trying to tap into that, is really, really important.

I think this naturally leads on to all sorts of concepts of soft power. And can I commend the British Council's soft power barometer for Wales, which compares us with Scotland, Northern Ireland and other places like Catalonia, Flanders and Quebec, amongst others? I think that's a good indicator, because there's good and not-so-good news there, but there are some really interesting insights. We are rated sixth out of those 10, so we are behind Quebec, Flanders and Scotland, but ahead, for instance, of Northern Ireland. We do particularly well on the sports barometer, where we are second, behind Catalonia. I suppose they've got Barcelona and football, but we do well obviously with rugby and other sports. We're also second on digital technology, and I think that's something we should really build on. We don't do so well on education, but that is something we can aspire to.

I would, if I had time, also talk about inter-governmental mechanisms, but can I just say that the UK Government—and this is an important recommendation in the report—should publish as soon as possible its review of inter-governmental mechanisms? Whilst I do not think we should have a veto, or that the Minister should, on trade negotiations, it's very important that our Minister and our scrutiny of our Minister—that there's a direct mechanism so that we can influence, through the Minister, trade policy. Thank you for your indulgence.

I nearly withdrew my name from this debate after hearing David Melding talking about Goronwy Owen and me not planning a speech about Goronwy Owen, but we'll say that I was going to do that but there's no point in doing it because David Melding has already done it. [Laughter.]

I'll speak briefly as chair and one of the founders of the cross-party group on Wales international. It's a group, for those of you who haven't been involved with it so far, that is a forum for discussing Wales's place in the world in several different ways. Our discussions within that group have varied from using foreign languages in Wales to the diaspora, to soft power and all of the things that we've heard discussed today. I was very eager to see the cross-party group established because I am an internationalist who believes very strongly in the benefit that will come to Wales, as a small nation and a proud nation, of playing as full a part as possible in as many international networks as possible.

In making remarks on this report, could I thank the committee, which I'm not a part of, for its work in putting this important report together? I won't spend time discussing the main part of the report in terms of the relationship between Wales and Europe in the years to come. On our benches, Delyth Jewell has dealt with that issue, but, of course, others have contributed on the important decisions that will have to be made in the coming years following the change in our relationship with Europe that seems to be on the way. All I will say is that I believe as an internationalist in the need, whatever happens, to build bridges and to strengthen the relationship between Wales and countries across the EU.

I want to make some comments on chapters 2 and 4. Chapter 2 is to do with the need, according to the committee, for a new strategy in terms of our international relations. I do agree entirely with the recommendation from the committee for the need for that kind of strategy. I do welcome the fact that this Government has appointed a Minister who is responsible for international relations, and I'm very pleased that that has happened, of course, after calls from my fellow Member Steffan Lewis over such a long period. But having the Minister in herself isn't enough; we need to be clear as to what the function of the Minister is. And in order to be clear about what that function is we need a strategy, a very clear strategy, on the kinds of ways that we can develop and build on those relationships that Wales has internationally already, and also to make new relationships.

Moving on to chapter 4, this is something that means so much to me: the idea of using our international friendships, our soft power, our compelling power on an international level, and of course to build on the direct relationships that we have with individuals in all parts of the world through the Welsh diaspora. I'll talk about Wales International, and I'll declare an interest: my father was a chair of that organisation for many years. It's a body that is still strong today, but which was established back in the 1940s when T. Elwyn Griffiths was in the armed forces in Cairo in Egypt. He realised at that time that Scotland had far more bodies and support for their diaspora, but there was nothing Welsh. So, he established this union in order to draw the Welsh diaspora together in Egypt, established a magazine, Seren y Dwyrain—Eastern Star—and found a problem in that the letter 'y' is used so much in Welsh—more than in other languages—he couldn't get enough of that letter in the press in Cairo. But, anyway, that was the start of formal networks for Welsh people overseas, and I'm pleased, as I say, that that is a body that is still undertaking activities. But there are other bodies. Global Welsh is worth mentioning, and that's one I've been involved with, which creates modern networks in business, among individuals across the world. My appeal here would be to the Government to take advantage of, to use, to invest in and to build on these bodies that already exist and have been building their relationships over a period of a great many years.

Wales is not a large country, but it's a country that has friends across the world, and relationships through sport and the arts and music and food, and through our national conscience. I'd like to move towards a humanitarian fund in Wales in the years to come. That's something that could benefit us as well. It's a country that has always looked beyond its borders, through Goronwy Owen and others, and there's an opportunity now, given that we have our own Parliament, and our own international relations Minister, to go to places that we haven't visited before. I'm sure that you, in getting a proper strategy, will have the Assembly's support as we look for new friends across the world.

Thank you. Can I now call on the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language, Eluned Morgan?

Well, thank you very much. May I start by welcoming the committee's report and thanking David Rees especially for all of the work undertaken and the evidence gathering that you have done during this inquiry, because it has provided us with some very valuable information as we develop our new strategy for Wales? I'm also grateful to everyone who's contributed to this afternoon's debate. May I say that I'm pleased that we have accepted the recommendations in the report, and that generally speaking I agree? I'm not particularly happy to accept recommendations in principle. One of the problems we have at the moment is that Brexit means that it's very difficult in certain areas for us to know exactly what the future holds. So, that partly explains why that's the case.

For decades, the way that we have operated in Wales has been defined by our relationship with the European Union. I'm pleased that Alun had noted the fact that we had called ourselves a European nation, and that is an important political point to highlight, I think. Of course, the nature of that relationship at the moment is still uncertain, but whatever happens, Wales will continue to be a European nation and will be an open country that has strong links with our neighbours on the European continent. That will be true whatever the outcome at the end of the current negotiations.

Following my announcement in January on the development of a new strategy for Wales, I launched a period of consultation in order to give public sector, private sector and third sector groups a chance to feed in their ideas as to how we should develop this strategy, and I have been having discussions with many stakeholders across the main sectors. Now, in order to broaden that discussion, I published a series of online questions on social media in order to gather evidence from the public as to what kind of message and image we should be conveying to the world.

The strategy will give us a focus in terms of how we prioritise work within the department and will note the challenges and opportunities that I hope will emerge in future. It will also set out criteria so that we, and you, are able to measure and assess our success. Work on the strategy is ongoing, and I do hope that by the end of this month I will be in a position to present the first draft to the Cabinet, but the final document will be available by the beginning of the summer.

May I also thank Alun for raising this point of the importance of the environment to truly highlight the fact that we do take this issue seriously, and the possibility of taking a lead role in minority languages? I’m sure you've noted the fact that these are some of the points that I highlighted when I went to the United States.

It’s also worth noting that the international agenda runs as a thread through every Cabinet portfolio. So, over the past six weeks, I have been holding a series of meetings with other Cabinet Ministers, and those discussions have been most useful in helping to draw up the strategy. The committee has asked us to establish a Cabinet sub-committee to set direction, but may I say, given the importance of this agenda and the fact that his extends across a number of portfolios, I do think that it’s important that we do discuss this in the full Cabinet, rather than in a sub-committee of the Cabinet? But, I do accept the point that we do need to ensure that that does happen, and we need to consider how we ensure that that is on the agenda consistently and regularly.

Since the UK’s decision to depart the European Union, the Welsh Government has been working with partner organisations in order to mitigate the negative impacts during this transitional period of Brexit. The chaotic Brexit, as we’ve seen to date, will have an impact on civic society and third sector organisations in different ways, depending on the kinds of services that they provide, the people they serve and the people they employ. That is the reason why we have been providing financial support directly to sectors across Wales so that they can plan and prepare for Brexit. And that includes that £50 million in the EU transition fund.

It’s crucially important that we ensure, as far as possible, that the benefits that Wales received from being a member of the European Union are not lost once the UK establishes a new relationship. The UK Government must honour the commitment that Wales will not lose a penny in funding following Brexit. We continue to call on the UK Government to confirm that it will provide ongoing funding for Wales without any conditions attached, just as we have been receiving over the past 20 years. We know how important it is for Wales to continue to be part of partnerships and networks on a European level. We have been clear to the UK Government that we do hope to continue to be part of the EU programmes wherever appropriate.

I think it's worth noting that participation in EU programmes and the associated agreement with the EU would normally be entered into by a sovereign state with the powers to do so, and we are already exploring whether it would be possible for Wales, or a combination of UK constituent countries, to participate in an EU programme like Erasmus, even if the UK Government were to disallow the participation of England. We've established that such an approach, I'm afraid, would require the agreement of the UK Government and its signature on any EU agreement. But that has not put us off the intention to make sure that we push as far as possible our future participation in programmes like Erasmus.

When appropriate, in the context of further Brexit negotiations, we will of course then approach the relevant EU institutions. We are, of course, reviewing all our bilateral relationships as part of that development of the international strategy, and based on this assessment, in line with our strategic priorities, we will identify key priority relationships on which to focus our activity, and they will be set out in the strategic plan. And I would like to assure Mark that we will be underlining the importance of the Welsh office in Brussels, because, of course, not only should we continue to influence in the EU, but that soft power relationship is also crucial in future. We will, of course, need some flexibility within the strategy to make sure that we don't preclude co-operation with other partners outside of our priority areas if those opportunities arise.

We recognise, of course, the importance of developing a more systematic approach to connect Wales with the diaspora. Thanks to David for his ever-interesting Goronwy Owen lessons and Jefferson; they were, of course, part of the Welsh diaspora in the past, and it's important that we gather that diaspora who are out there at the moment, who are willing and able to speak up for Wales abroad. It's quite a complex picture. What I don't want is to start something that we can't continue. That's why we've already had discussions with GlobalWelsh, which you mustn't mix up with Global Wales—I don't want us to be stepping on people's toes who already are doing work in this area. So, we're just trying to bottom out where the best places for us to work are.

Countries, of course, take different approaches to this. Our network of overseas offices, of course, will play an important role in our outreach in the world, and we will give further consideration to the committee's recommendation to commission an independent baseline analysis of the operation of the Government's overseas offices, and I can assure the committee, Chair, that we will be undertaking an assessment of their efficiency and delivery. We've already appointed an official to oversee the performance management of the overseas offices and we need to consider further whether an audit of very small offices would be appropriate, because in some cases we're auditing an individual. The key thing, I think, to remember is that we've got this office in London as well, which has already been strengthened. I am under no illusions whatsoever that London will be central to the delivery of our strategy. We need to tap into the huge resources of the UK Government in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and other places, and we are also waiting for the Joint Ministerial Committee's timetable.

Can you wind up, please?

So, just in closing, I would like to thank the committee for their positive engagement and I hope that we can continue in this vein. I can assure you that many of the points that you've pointed out will be included in that international strategy. Diolch yn fawr.

Can I now call on David Rees to reply to the debate?

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I thank the Members for their contributions this afternoon and for the Minister's response and just highlight a few things? I think the common themes we've found throughout the contributions were the importance of soft power and how that really can build and help Wales in its future directions, and also diaspora and how that works. And we have not yet used that to our benefit. Mark Reckless pointed out very clearly that that was something he was impressed with. He learnt how important that is and how Wales has been doing a good job of it in Brussels. He also highlighted the different approaches that we need to make. And there is a difference between an economically focused approach and a culturally focused approach, and the Welsh Government must decide which way it wants to do it and perhaps which type of relationship would match each approach. So, it may have a different form of relationship with one nation, compared to another, depending on the approach you want. That's very important.

Delyth highlighted—I think what came from Delyth most importantly is that we are a proud, modern nation and we need to look forward to building relationships with the world. We should not be afraid of that and we should be ambitious in taking those messages forward. And she expressed the importance of acknowledging the timescales, because we are conscious of the very sharp timescales that apply today and, really, we want the Welsh Government to speed up the process and reflect upon that. 

Alun Davies mentioned what I think we forget about, which is actually the importance of London in this. Obviously, you mentioned offices in London, Minister, but it is crucial and what was highlighted to us is that we always look to the world, but we should also be looking to London, because there are links into London and the foreign office, and how we can use those is also crucial. Our role in the UK and benefiting from that is important and is something else we need to have, because it may explain the Welsh contribution to international affairs and how we can actually influence that, both as ourselves, as a nation, but perhaps also in London as part of the United Kingdom. We cannot miss our way, and we should use the building blocks that we can build upon.

David, perhaps, enticed me to go to America to the William and Mary college, but what he highlighted was: there is so much out there we don't know about, and perhaps we need to start exploring some of those issues, to start building upon what is already there, which we haven't yet learnt. We can use it to our advantage. It is so powerful that we are missing a trick, and we should be doing more on that.

Rhun, I recognise your work on the CPG. I've attended one or two meetings, I wish I could attend more, but, unfortunately, there's always something going on, usually, at the same time—sometimes the ones I chair as well. But it is a crucial element you've taken on board as to where the place of Wales in the world is and how we can expand upon that. The CPG will keep on with that message, going on, I know that, under your leadership. It's very important.

We've got to go to places we haven't been before, that's effectively it. We always tend to go to the places we know, our friends, but there are places we haven't been yet, we haven't explored, and I think the opportunity now in this strategy is to start looking at some of those aspects. Don't be afraid to say, 'Actually, we haven't thought of that one, let's go there, let's look at that avenue', rather than the traditional 'everyone we know' friends.

Minister, I'm very pleased your strategy will be published by the summer, because it is crucial now we start seeing a strategy, it is crucial we start exploring what it means for Wales, and it's crucial we have the key performance indicators associated with it so we can assess whether it is effective or not. That's very important. It is now time for Wales to have a voice, for Wales to have a very loud voice. We've got one, let's use it. We need to do this because we believe we have a contribution to make to the world.

Many talk about Scotland and many talk about Ireland, and I think David highlighted we don't talk about the Welsh Americans. Many Welsh Americans are in the Appalachian mountains and the coal-mining areas—there's a history there, but we don't use it. Let's use our voice, let's use our experience, let's use our relationships. That's what we need to do.

I welcome the fact the Assembly has given, today, its consideration to our role in the world and I look forward to seeing us set a course, and that strategy must be a clear course, so that we can actually see an outward-looking Wales delivering and having relationships with other nations across the world.

Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the committee's report is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.