Group 2—the next group of amendments relates to a programme to improve the accessibility of Welsh law. The lead and the only amendment in this group is amendment 1, and I call on Suzy Davies to move and speak to that amendment—Suzy.

Amendment 1 (Suzy Davies) moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move amendment 1. I hope—to some degree, anyway—I'll be able to answer Mark Reckless's comments during this group. The amendment here was tabled on the back of discussion of a similar amendment at Stage 2. The original Bill allowed for the programme to improve accessibility of Welsh law to be revised periodically. The Government's amendment at Stage 2, for which I thank the Counsel General, introduced a duty to report annually on that programme. I think perhaps now it's up to this Parliament to consider exactly how we scrutinise those reports.

But this amendment does go one step further, and calls for the formal mid-term review of the effectiveness of the programme, which I think speaks to some of what Mark Reckless was speaking about. So, it's not an additional review—it can be combined with the annual review—but it is something with more meat in it, and something that I hope we will be able to influence in the way that I'll describe now.

At the moment, the content of the annual report is not prescribed. For me, it was important that this Parliament had some say in what was reported upon so that we weren’t presented with just extensive detail of activity that the Government had been involved in without any sense of whether our constituents were finding Welsh law more accessible as a result of that—hence the word 'effectiveness' being included in this amendment.

We have run into this issue before of Welsh Government undertaking reviews of its own policy progress without this Parliament having any influence over the questions that might be asked in that process. We met with great Government resistance during the passage of the minimum alcohol pricing Bill, for example, where an amendment was rejected even though it specified questions that we believed that our constituents would like to see answered.

So, this time, the amendment allows time for discussion about what a review should achieve and how effectiveness might be measured. Once again, I'm grateful to the Counsel General for his willingness to work with this Parliament and for his letter to the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee of 18 June, which has moved the discussion on somewhat.

Can I call the Counsel General?

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. 

I'm grateful to Suzy Davies for tabling this amendment, as it provides me with another opportunity to confirm my commitment to reviewing the operation of the legislation, albeit that, having accepted her earlier amendment, I fear I'm destined to disappoint her on this one by not ultimately supporting this amendment. 

When I introduced the Bill back in December, section 2 provided that the Counsel General would periodically lay a report before the Assembly on the progress made under the programmes to improve accessibility. During Stage 1, the committee took evidence from stakeholders on reviewing and reporting on the legislation, and the committee concluded that the requirement to report could indeed be strengthened, and recommended the Counsel General should make an annual report, as Suzy Davies mentioned in her remarks. This was a position I agreed with in light of the evidence, and I was pleased the committee agreed my proposed amendment to section 2(7) at Stage 2. And, as Suzy Davies acknowledged, the Bill now provides for annual reports to be made as a result.

Stakeholders also recognised the potential of Part 1 to make Welsh law more accessible, clear and straightforward to use, a position that the committee strongly endorsed. The committee recognised that innovative legislation of this kind should be robustly evaluated, and recommended that the Government should commit to reviewing the operation of the Bill at the midway point of the first Assembly term in which Part 1 of the Bill, or the Act in due course, takes effect.

The Finance Committee also recognised the importance of post-implementation review, and wished to ensure that resourcing and financial implications were considered as part of that review. In correspondence after the reports were published and during Stage 2, I gave a clear and detailed commitment to reviewing the legislation at the midway point during the next Assembly, i.e. by the end of 2023. I also set out how I envisage the annual reports would be made. Members will see these commitments reflected in the revised explanatory memorandum to the Bill, tabled ahead of these proceedings.

Echoing the point made by Mark Reckless earlier, during Stage 2 Suzy Davies invited me to write to the committee, as she acknowledged, with my views on how Assembly Members could influence the content of the mid-term review, and that is something that I have now done. I appreciate that Members here today may not have had the opportunity to read that correspondence, so, Dirprwy Lywydd, with your agreement I would like to summarise what I have said. I envisage that the mid-term review would primarily do two things. Firstly, it would report on the progress of implementing the programme to improve the accessibility of Welsh law and to consider whether the proposed content of it should be changed. Secondly, and more generally, it will provide post-legislative scrutiny of the Bill itself, including Parts 2 and 3. Members will appreciate that that aspect goes further than the amendment being proposed by Suzy Davies here today.

I will also make my officials available to the committee to understand what members of the committee would consider important and to gain a fuller appreciation of how Members could envisage a future Assembly engaging in the process of the mid-term review. I hope that conversations such as those could help shape any views the committee may want to pass on to its successor towards the end of this Assembly term. If any Member here today who is not a member of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee would also like to share their thoughts on how Members should engage in the mid-term review, I am very happy to extend an invitation to them also to meet with my officials to discuss that; they should just let my office know and arrangements will be made.

I believe the Government’s commitment to a mid-term review has been clearly set out, and it is a commitment that covers all of the Bill, not just Part 1. I don't, therefore, consider the Bill needs to be amended to ensure the review takes place. And so, although I am grateful to Suzy Davies for raising the matter as she has, and again here today, and providing me with the opportunity of setting out the Government’s clear commitment to a mid-term review, I hope she understands why I won't be supporting the amendment itself.

Thank you. Suzy Davies to reply to the debate. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and can I thank the Counsel General? I actually thought his letter to the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee was very helpful. It's always encouraging to get ministerial commitments to any activity that is promoted here by the Assembly Members themselves, but, again, I have to ask, as I would always do in these circumstances, if you're so prepared to commit, why not commit to the duty to do this.

The only reason I was asking for this, really, was because when something is on the face of the Bill, it gives rise to the possibility for regulations under the secondary legislation being raised on the back of it, and, when that happens, it's another opportunity for Assembly Members to scrutinise what the Welsh Government is hoping to do. So, while, of course, I do welcome the commitment that you have given, I just think I could have tested your good graces that tiny bit further and asked you to have accepted this. Thank you. 

The question is that amendment 1 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Therefore, we proceed to an electronic vote. Open the vote. Close the vote. For the amendment 24, no abstentions, 27 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is not agreed. 

Amendment 1: For: 24, Against: 27, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Suzy Davies, amendment 14.

Amendment 14 (Suzy Davies) moved.

Yes, please. 

The question is that amendment 14 be agreed to. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, amendment 14 is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36. 

Amendment agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.