And we move to group 1, and the first group of amendments relate to the definitions in Part 1 of the Bill. The lead amendment in this group is amendment 13, and I call on Dai Lloyd to move and speak to the lead amendment and the other amendments in this group—Dai.

Amendment 13 (Dai Lloyd) moved.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Quoting the words of the explanatory memorandum of this Bill:

'The purpose of the Legislation (Wales) Bill is to make Welsh law more accessible, clear and straightforward to use.'

And, of course, the accessibility of our legislation is the inspiration underpinning the amendment tabled in my name this afternoon.

We discussed many similar amendments at Stage 2, and they were accepted in spirit by the Counsel General at that point, and, since Stage 2, officials—the talented officials and lawyers of this Government—have assisted me in amending my previous amendments so that they have become the amendments tabled today. There have been some fundamental changes to what we introduced at Stage 2.

So, in this amendment, we look at the accessibility of Welsh law to the extent that it's readily available to members of the public in both Welsh and English, that Welsh law is published in an up-to-date form in both languages, showing whether enactments are in force and incorporating any amendments made to them, that Welsh law is clearly and logically organised both within and between enactments, and that Welsh law is easy to understand and certain in its effect.

I’m very thankful to the Counsel General and his officials for all of their support in making this possible. Because we stand in this Senedd, we’re able to legislate on behalf of the people of Wales, we can also levy taxes. This legislation is to be warmly welcomed and we congratulate the Counsel General on his vision and his initiative. Of course, to the person on the street and to lawyers in courts of law alike, legislation can be very complex, with a combination of UK legislation, England-and-Wales law, and Wales-only law, in both Welsh and English, all enacted here in Wales.

And, given the scale of the legislation—in its various different forms; primary legislation, secondary legislation, statutory instruments and so on and so forth— that is available, without forgetting, of course, that all of this different legislation can also be amended and remade over the years in different forms and in different places, then the legislative landscape can be very difficult to navigate, even for the most talented, never mind the cuts to the financial support to enable individuals to access the law in the very first place, with more and more individuals choosing to defend themselves, because of the absence of that financial support. Then you could be talking about a perfect storm of an increase in the complexity of law linked with less ability to access the law by the individual citizen. That's the importance of this legislation before us today.

The explanatory memorandum notes that the National Assembly has passed 59 Measures or Acts since 2007, and that Welsh Ministers have made around 6,000 statutory instruments since 1999. The intention of codification, to arrange legislation subject by subject in one place, is to be warmly welcomed, and also the opportunity to innovate in making legislation in Welsh that has the same status as legislation made in English. Creating bilingual legislation from the outset makes better legislation, as witnesses told us as we scrutinised this Bill at the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee. There are challenges, yes, but there is also some pleasure to be gained in interpreting legal issues in both languages with the same status, and we welcome this innovative intention in this Bill.

To conclude, we cannot forget our history. Perhaps I may have mentioned in the past the innovative work of Hywel Dda in creating legislation for Wales, including rights for women back in the year 909 AD. Now, that was an important year. With agreement on passing the Legislation (Wales) Bill, 2019 can also be an important year.

I'm happy to say that we'll be supporting amendment 13, as we did with a very similar amendment at Stage 2, where it went to a tied vote. One of the inconsistencies with the draft Bill, I thought, was that there was a failure to define key concepts, which did strike me as a little bit unfortunate when we were talking about a Bill that is about making Welsh law, in both languages, easier to find, easier to follow, easier to distinguish from other law that may only be material in Wales and, of course, easier to use. 

As well as accessibility, a key concept in this Bill was the codification of Welsh law. And, as we aired here in the introductory debate some months ago, it's not a readily understood word in everyday life, and it also has different meanings within legal use as well. So, we took the wording from the Government's own explanatory notes to fashion a definition at Stage 2, and then used the Counsel General's oral evidence at that stage to redraft an amendment for this stage. As a Government statement on consolidation was due this summer, I thought there was every reason to expect them to be in a position to define codification. I'm very pleased that the Counsel General was willing to discuss moderate changes to that redraft with a view to supporting it today, very much, it seems, in the same spirit as with amendment 13.

Amendments tabled by Parliament don't always need to be tweaked and then retabled in the Government's name, as happens here perhaps a little too often, and so I thank the Counsel General for the respect that he's shown to this legislature and the proceedings in the way that he has. Thank you.

I'd like to support the amendment in the name of Suzy Davies. I think it's very important that we do everything we can to make Welsh law accessible, both to facilitate and support our own debates, but, at least as importantly, for those who are out practically dealing with this law, namely the legal profession still of England and Wales. And we have a Commission on Justice for Wales, chaired so ably by Lord Thomas, and I've been pleased, chairing the cross-party legal group, to agree to engage so substantively with that commission. And one key issue they think, in terms of any difference in jurisdictions, is solicitors who are trained in England and Wales as a single thing—do they look to split that in terms of how solicitors are regulated, or do you look for the competence requirements, in terms of professional development and application, that solicitors should only act in an area in which they are competent and knowledgeable? And I think that, if we do consolidate Welsh law and make it clear what the body of Welsh law is in an accessible way, it will mean that many more solicitors are competent and able to engage with that, without being very specialist and having to spend a high proportion of their working lives on dealing with Wales-specific issues. And I think, particularly on landlord and tenant law, which is such a big area of applicability, this is going to be particularly important. So, I support very much what Suzy is calling for.

I do just want to address one sensitivity there in terms of who does this work. We are the National Assembly for Wales, we are passing these laws—what is our role and what is our standing in terms of ensuring the accessibility of this law, as opposed to the Government? Now, the Government has got much more in terms of lawyers working for it and capacity to do this work, but it's important that, in something that is accessible and there for the people of Wales and others, that is the work and body of this Assembly, making it accessible and the way that's done, surely we as an Assembly should have proper oversight of that process, and what's the best way of the Assembly working with Government to ensure that that law is made accessible and coherent for all to use?

Will you take an intervention?

No, he's sat down. He's finished. Sorry. [Interruption.] No, no, sorry. He's sat down. Sorry. Can I call the Counsel General?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I’d like to thank Dai Lloyd and Suzy Davies for explaining the thinking behind the amendments that they’ve proposed. I will start by saying that I consider that these amendments enhance Part 1. So, I will be supporting both amendments.

Turning first to amendment 13, as has been explained, this will insert a definition of accessibility into section 1 for the purposes of Part 1. Accessibility of the law is a fundamental element of the rule of law and the underpinning policy objective of this Bill. For Welsh law to be accessible, it needs to be clear and certain in its effect, as well as being easily available and navigable.

I’m satisfied that the amendment proposed by Dai Lloyd today provides a definition that captures the four key elements of accessibility and is comprehensive in the way that it expresses those elements. It reflects the equal status for all purposes of bilingual legislation, and provides a meaningful test for us to follow when we think about whether legislation is accessible or not.

Members will be aware of this Government’s long-term ambition to codify Welsh law. Codification is intended to bring order to the statute book, and involves organising and publishing legislation by reference to its content, and adopting a system under which legislation retains its structure rather than proliferating.

As Members can see, amendment 14 proposed today by Suzy Davies captures these two important aspects of the idea of codification, but without restricting its scope. Framed in that way, I agree that the amendment provides a helpful definition for inclusion in section 2 of the Bill.

If the Bill is passed, I intend to publish a position statement later this summer on consolidation, codification and the future structure of Welsh law. This will expand upon the definition now proposed and will complement what was said in the draft taxonomy for codes of Welsh law, which I published when the Bill was introduced.

I am pleased, therefore, to support both amendments, and I urge other Members to do the same.

Thank you. Can I now call Dai Lloyd to reply to the debate?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. May I thank Suzy, Mark and the Counsel General for their comments on the amendments? I don’t intend to speak again during this debate, so, as well as recognising that there has been some co-operation behind the scenes to adapt these amendments before us today, I would wish to see them passed, particularly the one in my name, which does emphasise and define accessibility, as the Counsel General has explained.

I’d like to thank everyone for their supportive comments, and I thank the Counsel General too for his support. We will also be supporting other amendments, but we will push this to a vote and hope to see everyone supporting the amendment in my name. Thank you.

Thank you. The question is that amendment 13 be agreed to. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36, amendment 13 is agreed.

Amendment agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.