Item 3 on the agenda is a statement by the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs: the Wild Animals and Circuses (Wales) Bill. I call on the Minister to move the statement—Lesley Griffiths.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I am pleased to be introducing the Wild Animals and Circuses (Wales) Bill for the National Assembly for Wales’s consideration. Travelling circuses have toured the United Kingdom for over two centuries. The number of circuses using wild animals, and the number of wild animals in those circuses, has greatly declined in recent years.

Society has moved on and the demand is no longer there. Animals are sentient beings and the majority of us no longer think it is acceptable to use wild animals in this way. There are now just two circuses touring the UK with wild animals. The wild animals they keep include camels, zebras and reindeer. Both circuses are based in England but regularly visit Wales. Each time they visit here, there are renewed calls to ban the practice.

Last year, I consulted on a draft Bill aimed at addressing ethical concerns by banning the use of wild animals in travelling circuses. The consultation attracted over 6,500 responses with the overwhelming majority of respondents supporting the introduction of this legislation. The purpose of this short, important Bill is twofold. First and foremost, it bans the use of wild animals in travelling circuses in Wales, an outdated practice that has no place in modern society. Secondly, it makes some important amendments to the legislation relating to the licensing of circuses.

The Bill makes it an offence for an operator of a travelling circus to use, or cause or permit another person to use, a wild animal in a travelling circus. A wild animal is 'used' if the animal performs or is exhibited. This definition captures, for example, the deliberate positioning of a wild animal in any way intended to promote a travelling circus. If an operator is found guilty of an offence, the court may impose an unlimited fine. In the Bill, a 'wild animal' means an animal of a kind not commonly domesticated in the British islands. The definition is similar to the interpretation of 'wild animal' in the Zoo Licensing Act 1981. This avoids a situation where the same species could be considered 'wild' in a zoo but 'domesticated' when kept in a circus. 'Animal' has the meaning given by the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and applies to vertebrate animals only. A 'travelling circus' means a circus that travels from one place to another for the purpose of providing entertainment at those places, despite there being periods during which it does not travel from one place to another.

Under normal circumstances, these definitions should be sufficient and are in-keeping with other established legislation and the commonly understood meaning of these terms. However, it is possible there may be uncertainty or conflicting views regarding whether a kind of animal is to be considered wild or not, or whether a type of undertaking, act or entertainment is or is not regarded as a travelling circus. For such scenarios, should they arise, the Bill includes powers to make regulations to specify what is or is not to be regarded as a wild animal and what is or is not to be regarded as a travelling circus. These powers to make subordinate legislation are discretionary and there are no plans to use them at present.

Although the purpose of the Bill is to ban the use of wild animals in travelling circuses, circuses may still keep wild animals provided they are not used in performances or exhibited as part of the travelling circus. The Bill makes changes to the licensing regime for circuses by removing the exemptions circuses currently have from the licensing requirements of the Dangerous Wild Animals Act 1976 and the Zoo Licensing Act 1981. Any circus, be it travelling or static, keeping but not using a dangerous wild animal will require a licence under the 1976 Act, unless it is alternatively caught by provisions of the 1981 Act.

The powers of enforcement are set out in the schedule. The Bill, should it become law, will be enforced by local authority inspectors. I expect breaches of the provisions of the Bill, either by contravening the ban or by intentionally obstructing an inspector in exercising their duty, to be rare. Any breach will be relatively easy to detect, and I expect travelling circuses to comply with the provisions of the legislation.

I have explained the purpose of the Bill, and it is important I am also clear about what the Bill will not do. The Bill will not affect the use of domesticated animals in travelling circuses, nor will it prevent wild animals being used for entertainment in other settings. However, the welfare of these animals is very important to me, which is why I recently announced my intention to consult on a licensing scheme for all animal exhibits. The scheme will provide an opportunity to set appropriate welfare standards and ensure the exhibition of animals in a respectful and responsible way. I expect to launch the public consultation before the end of summer recess.

The majority of travelling circuses do not use any animals. The small and declining number of wild animals kept by those that do is a clear indication that the public appetite for this type of entertainment is not what it once was. Keeping wild animals in travelling circuses, purely for our entertainment, cannot be justified. Not only are the animals unlikely to have a good quality of life, but it contributes little to further our understanding of wild animals or their conservation.

The Scottish Government banned the use of wild animals in travelling circuses in 2018, and the UK Government recently introduced a Bill to do the same in England. That Bill has made it through the House of Commons and is quickly progressing through the House of Lords. If there is no equivalent ban in Wales, Wales would be the only country in Great Britain where wild animals could still be used by travelling circuses. This would not be acceptable. I look forward to working with Members and Assembly committees to secure the Bill’s passage onto the statute book.

Thank you. There are a number of speakers in the statement, and I make that plea that perhaps people may just think about that, and hopefully we'll get everybody in. Andrew R.T. Davies. 

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Thank you, Minister, for the introduction of this important piece of legislation, albeit a small piece of legislation when it comes to thinking of some of the Acts that Government and backbenchers have brought before, but a very important one. As you highlight in your statement, 6,500 respondents to the consultation for evidence shows that this has an important part to play in many people's priorities, and we support you wholeheartedly in the endeavours that the Government is seeking to achieve with this piece of legislation, as it was part of our manifesto back in 2016. 

Just a couple of questions, if I may. I'm a little bit concerned about the aspect of subordinate legislation that you highlight in your statement, and the ability to have this as a discretionary power. I appreciate that you as a Minister don't envisage using these powers at the moment, but, from definition and other interpretations, there is a whole range of scenarios you could think of where maybe a future Minister in a different environment might choose to broaden the scope of this Bill from what your intention is as the Minister to achieve in this Bill at the moment. As you highlighted, there are but two circuses travelling with wild animals at the moment, and I think most of us in this Chamber, if not all of us in this Chamber, can clearly understand that. But could you give us an understanding of why you think it's important that that provision is included in the Bill, as I would much prefer to see, obviously, a referral back to the Assembly, and Plenary in particular, if such a change in particular around the scope of the Bill and interpretation was to be considered by a future Minister? 

You quite rightly point out in your statement that Wales obviously is joining the rest of the United Kingdom in the way that they have legislated in this particular area—Scotland, now the UK Parliament and the Assembly. Can you give us an indication of whether this is within the scope of the other Bills passed in other Parliaments of the United Kingdom, or are there areas that you have looked at that either aren't covered by the Welsh Bill or, indeed, where you've increased the scope of the Welsh Bill to be a far broader catch than maybe what Scotland looked at, or what the UK Parliament has looked at as well?

The licensing scheme that you talked of in your statement around domestic animals—or domesticated animals, should I say, sorry—that you're looking to bring forward in the future, could you also give us a taste of what you're hoping to capture by that consultation, and the areas that you think need to be covered by that particular exercise that can't be covered in some of the aspects that you have in legislation at the moment? Because that is a substantial piece of work, I would suggest, going into all sorts of areas. 

And I'd be grateful, finally, if you could confirm that it is the case that this is about travelling circuses and wild animals, and it certainly isn't the intention of the Government to increase the scope of this Bill beyond what you've stated today. Because I appreciate, from some people's perspective, actually, the showing of any type of animal, whether that would be a farm animal or domestic animal, should be captured by this piece of legislation. But, as I understand it, and certainly from the conversations that have been had leading up to this Bill today, it is entirely in the gift of the Government to capture the circuses that are travelling at the moment and wild animals that perform, and the definition of wild animals, as I understand it, is pretty clearly understood. Thank you.   

Thank you, Andrew R.T. Davies, for those comments and questions, and I'm grateful for your support and your party's for the Bill. I'll be very clear in answer to your last question: the objective of this Bill is to prevent the use of wild animals in travelling circuses on ethical grounds. That is absolutely the purpose and the objective of the Bill.

You asked about regulations, and I suppose that sort of ties into your second question around the Scottish Bill and the Bill that's currently progressing through the UK Parliament. Our Bill is very similar to the Scottish Bill. A big difference is the fact that we do have that ability to bring forward subordinate legislation and regulations. One of the reasons I thought it was important to have that in the Bill is that, for instance, I was asked, 'Why don't we have a list of wild animals on the face of the Bill?' That would be a very, very long list. If you look at the wild animals that are currently being used in the two circuses at the current time, I don't think there's a need to have a list, but I do think that, as time goes on, it could be that other animals would need to be listed—other wild animals—and therefore we should have those regulations in place. So, that is a big difference between us and the UK Government Bill. Scotland do have that ability.

You asked about the licensing of animal exhibits and, as I said in my original statement, last year I went out to consultation on the licensing of animal exhibits, and we tied in the issue around banning the use of wild animals in travelling circuses. I want to make sure that we capture all loopholes that there may be in relation to other pieces of legislation. So, as I said, the Bill, for example, will not affect the use of domesticated animals in travelling circuses, and nor will it prevent wild animals being used for entertainment in other settings, for instance. So, the welfare of these animals is very important and that's the reason why I announced my intention to bring forward the licensing scheme for all animal exhibits that meet given criteria in law. I will be going out to further public consultation before the end of summer recess. Certainly, the amount of responses we had to the original consultation last year, from where this Bill has been derived, shows you the passion people have for animal welfare in Wales, and I think it's really important that we have this scheme going forward.

It's not being done in isolation; it's being done in conjunction with stakeholders and other enforcement agencies and working collaboratively with my counterparts in England and Scotland. The approach that will deliver the scheme will have a lasting impact on the welfare of animals that are being used in exhibits, and you mentioned some examples. There are a significant number of animals that we probably don't know about that are going round schools, for instance, and we often see them at agricultural shows and in other settings. So, I think it is really important that we have this scheme. But I think also it's important for our ongoing attitude and that of future generations regarding the welfare of animals.

May I thank the Minister for her statement? I welcome it—and that's not something I've said very often over the past few months—but legislation of this kind was a manifesto commitment for Plaid Cymru in 2016, so we certainly support the principle of legislating in this area.

It's disappointing, or perhaps frustrating, that it's taken so long for us to reach this point where the Bill is to be introduced this week. I know that we lost some time waiting for the UK Government to take action in this area, and there may be a lesson for us there: if we truly feel that we need to act in any particular area, then we need to look to do so ourselves, I would say, in future.

May I ask—? You make reference to implementing this legislation from 1 December 2020 onwards. That would mean that there is a possibility that there'll be another summer next year where travelling circuses will be possible and that wild animals will be used in their visits to Wales. It's a plea to the Minister to see if there's any possibility that we can hasten this process, because I would love to see legislation being passed before that point, so that we can be in the situation where this is the last summer where we would see these travelling circuses in Wales.

I have referred to the fact that, in principle, we are supportive of what the Government is doing. It's possible, as we've already heard, that there may be a discussion required around definitions in terms of various terminology in the legislation, and perhaps the powers or the extent to which powers are handed to Ministers to interpret and to outline those. I'm relatively relaxed on that at the moment, but I do assume that that’s where much of the debate will centre.

You mentioned loopholes earlier, and one obvious loophole that's been flagged up is that travelling circuses might be rebranded as some sort of mobile animal exhibition and I'm sure you're aware of that and I'd like to hear from you that you are addressing those issues through your proposed licensing scheme. The other thing I'd like to know, of course, is when do you anticipate a licensing scheme being enacted because not only am I agitating for this legislation to be implemented sooner, I would like to make sure that that licensing scheme is introduced as early as is possible as well.

You've already touched on this, really. I mean, there have been calls, of course, to ban all performing animals, and I'm certainly yet to be persuaded on that, but you do say in your statement that animals are sentient beings. So, I'm just interested in why you are differentiating between wild animals and other animals and whether this legislation is an opportunity, maybe, to broaden that proposal.

And, finally, of course, you note, I think it was in the explanatory memorandum that was published with the Bill, that nearly two thirds of responses to a previous consultation came from an online campaign. I've raised this in other contexts previously and I'd like to ask you whether you'd be willing to publish how many—not information about individual responses, but what percentage of all responses to the previous consultation were actually from Wales because I think that is an important consideration for us across all consultation. And whilst in some circumstances there will be very valid reasons for taking on board consultation responses from other countries, I'd like to understand what weighting in this particular context the Welsh Government is giving to those responses from outside of Wales. And, I think, as a matter of course and a matter of process, I think the Welsh Government should be making these statistics available. It shouldn't be an onerous task because I presume there is a database somewhere because you correspond back with those who have presented responses to consultations. So, it shouldn't be too onerous a task.

Diolch, Llyr, for your support for the Bill, and certainly I welcomed the conversation I had with both yourself and Andrew R.T. Davies before this statement today. Regarding your questions about the time it will take for the Bill to come into force, I anticipate, with support, the Bill proceeding to a stage where we would get Royal Assent in May. As I've stated, the Bill will come into force on 1 December 2020. By that time, both the circuses that currently travel and use wild animals will be expected to have completed their touring and then returned to their winter quarters. Certainly, I think, I'm very open to bringing that date forward if at all possible and I think there may be an opportunity to do that if the UK Government delivers on its commitment to introduce a ban in England by the time that their licensing regulations expire, because, obviously, it's the UK Government that's responsible for the licensing of circuses, not us. If they do the ban before their licensing regulations expire in January 2020, I think there would be a possibility of us bringing that date forward. So, again, any decision to do that, I'm very happy to look at that.

In relation to your question around loopholes, certainly, if you think about it, there are far, far more animals that are being used as animal exhibits than, obviously, animals in circuses. So, that's why the animal exhibits scheme is so important, and I mentioned in my answer to Andrew R.T. Davies that I will be going out to consultation before the end of summer recess and I would certainly want to see that scheme come into play, I would say, as early in 2020 as possible.

In relation to, 'Why does the offence only apply to wild animals and not all animals?'—and I'm aware of the petition that's recently been started—there are not the same fundamental, ethical objections to the use of domesticated animals in travelling circuses or other similar settings. The ethical argument for a ban in the case of wild animals, I believe, is very strong; I think the argument for a ban on domesticated animals is less than clear cut. And if you think about it, there are many activities that involve domesticated animals travelling for the purpose of giving performances or exhibitions with little obvious wider benefits, which are considered to be perfectly acceptable by society in general. The example I'm always given—and I think we discussed this—is horses and show jumping, and I think it would be very difficult to argue that they should not be used to perform a similar activity in a travelling circus.

Somebody asked me about what would happen if we had, then, a static circus. As far as I'm aware, there certainly was one static circus in the UK, I'm not sure it's still there, but again, it's about ensuring that there are no loopholes in any legislation. So, certainly, the legal advice I was given is that it would then probably have to be licensed as a zoo, for instance, but there is legislation to cover such things.

You asked me about respondents in relation to ones who came from Wales, and certainly, I'd be very happy if it's possible to provide that information. However, I have to say I think it was something like 97 per cent of respondents were for us bringing this Bill forward, so therefore, I don't think you would need the weighting in perhaps a way that you would need in other legislation.

I very much welcome the Minister's statement. There has been a long-running campaign, but I have fully supported it over several years to ban the use of wild animals in circuses. A ban already exists in Scotland.

In 2006, which is a long time ago now, in a public consultation across the UK, 94.5 per cent of people responding thought banning the use of wild animals in circuses would be the best method to achieve animal welfare. The majority of respondents to the Minister have said 97 per cent, and Wales last year supported the ban. There is one thing we can be certain of: we've got the public on our side. I welcome the proposed ban on the use of wild animals in travelling circuses; I think its time has come. We're in the twenty-first century and not the nineteenth.

Two questions: why is it intended that a circus will still be allowed to keep wild animals as long as they are not exhibited or used in performances? I find that is what's normally described as a loophole. And the second question is: will the use of birds of prey for outside exhibitions still be allowed?

Thank you, Mike Hedges, for those two questions. So, answering your second question first: birds of prey would then be captured under the animal exhibit licensing scheme that I'm bringing forward next year, following a public consultation.

In relation to why can't we ban circuses from just keeping wild animals that they then wouldn't use or exhibit, that would require a loss of ownership—it would be a deprivation of property. We don't really think that's in the public interest and it would be very difficult to justify because if that person was caring for the animal properly, and if that person wasn't caring for that wild animal properly, that would be captured in other legislation. It's obviously very difficult, then, to justify that.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I'd like to warmly welcome your statement, and I know that very many of my constituents will too. My first question is regarding the extra requirements on local authority inspectors. I accept your very valid point that breaches will be easy to detect, but what discussions have you had around the capacity of local authority inspectorates, and is there any training or support that Welsh Government could provide? For example, I've discussed with one animal welfare charity the creation of a centralised animal welfare inspectorate. So, I'd be interested to hear your views around that and whether you think that it could be helpful.

I'd also like to discuss some novel alternatives as well. For example, there's been a lot of focus on social media lately around Circus Roncalli, which is a German circus using holograms of wild animals as part of their show. This allows them to replicate traditional circus acts, but also more fantastic scenarios, and to do so at a fraction of the cost involved in transporting live animals. Now, to my knowledge, this has not been brought to the UK yet, so would you welcome the use of such technology, which is entirely cruelty free, here in Wales?

And finally, it seems to me that the publicity around the introduction of this law could provide us with a good opportunity for Welsh Government to promote the many excellent animal-based tourist attractions here in Wales, such as Folly Farm to mention just one, where people can observe animals in a natural-style habitat in the context of conservation work. So, I'd be interested to know what discussions you might have had or might consider having with your colleagues in Government around that, and of course that could provide an economic boost to Wales, particularly as the summer school holidays approach.

Thank you, Vikki Howells. In relation to the impact on local authorities, of course, there have been conversations with local authorities, because should the Bill become law it will be enforced by local authority inspectors, and they certainly were part of the consultation we had. There will be minimal impact on local authorities. I think breaches are unlikely to arise often, if at all, and I do expect travelling circuses to comply with a ban, because it will be very obvious if they're not doing so. Certainly, if the UK Government delivers on its commitment to ban the use of wild animals in travelling circuses in England, there will be nowhere in Great Britain where wild animals will be able to be used in travelling circuses. So, certainly, the discussions that my officials had with local authorities were that it wouldn't constitute any additional cost, for instance, and it would just be conducted alongside existing enforcement activities, which are already being carried out in respect of the two circuses, one of which you named. In relation to the holograms, that's not something that I'd considered. I suppose it depends what the holograms depict the animals doing. I would be very interested in having a look at that, but certainly, it's something that we can look at as the Bill progresses through the Assembly. I think you're right about promoting animal tourist attractions. Of course, the majority of animal tourist attractions—you referred to and I heard you mention Folly Farm—are, again, regulated, they're legislated for and we should encourage people to go to be able to see animals at very close quarters.

I too welcome this statement from the Minister, and welcome the Bill, too. It is a shame that it has taken so long for the Government to act. It’s a full 12 months since the former First Minister stated that the Government would support a ban on the use of wild animals in travelling circuses, but better late than never. I am pleased that Wales, at last, is catching up with Scotland and England. Many of the questions that I wanted to ask have already been asked and answered, but I will just conclude by saying this: this kind of political change wouldn’t be possible without campaigners, and one campaigner that’s been crucial to all of this is Linda Joyce-Jones from Nantlle, near Caernarfon in my constituency. She has been campaigning for this change in the legislation over many years. She did introduce a petition to the Assembly in February 2017, calling for a ban, and she has lobbied each and every one of us, I think. Everyone here will have met Linda at some point. So, will you join with me in thanking her for her work and to the other campaigners who have worked so hard for this change? The fact that there have been 6,500 responses and the vast majority in favour of the legislation speaks volumes, I think. It is a clear sign of the change of attitude among the public, and campaigners such as Linda have succeeded incredibly in changing public opinion. We should congratulate them, and I hope you will join me in doing that.

Diolch, Siân Gwenllian. I do join you in thanking Linda Joyce-Jones and all the other 6,500 people who responded to our consultation. I think it just shows that Wales is a country of animal lovers. I am very pleased that we've brought this piece of legislation forward in this term of the Government, and I look forward to working with yourself and other Members as the Bill proceeds through.

Thank you for your statement, Minister, and for providing us with advanced copy of the Bill and explanatory memorandum. Putting an end to the exploitation of wild animals for the pleasure of the viewing public is well overdue and I thank the Minister for introducing legislation to achieve this in relation to travelling circuses. Wales will soon be joining a growing list of countries that ban acts that force wild animals to perform for entertainment. Unlike one of the candidates to be our next Prime Minister, Jeremy Hunt, who wants to take out time from negotiating our orderly exit from the EU in order to lift the ban on fox hunting, as someone who abhors animal exploitation and cruelty, I welcome this legislation.

However, I do ask why it hasn't gone just that one step further, Minister. This legislation does not cover wild animals being used for entertainment in other settings, and, as such, does not cover some mobile animal exhibits. I say 'some' because some mobile coverage of animals is obviously not abusive or insensitive. So, can you outline why you opted to stick to travelling circuses, and when can we expect to see some measures to safeguard wild animals in some mobile exhibits?

Minister, do you agree that the welfare of animals should be paramount and that the exploitation of wild animals simply for profit should be banned in any circumstances? If so, can you expand upon any other actions your Government will be taking to safeguard both wild and domestic animals being used for entertainment purposes? Finally, Minister, what discussions have you had with UK Ministers about stronger licensing regimes covering the use of domesticated animals in travelling shows? Because some domesticated animals have been known to die through heat exhaustion and so on, whilst travelling. So, I look forward to the swift passage of the Bill through the Assembly and to the day that wild animals cannot be exploited on Welsh soil. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you very much for those questions. I hope I've answered very concisely around how the new animal exhibits licensing scheme that I'll be bringing forward next year, following consultation, will ensure that there are no loopholes and that all—pardon the pun—animals are captured in that. I have had discussions with Lord Gardiner who is the UK Government Minister in relation to other licensing for circuses, and, again, that's something I think we can look at in other pieces of legislation to ensure every animal is covered by legislation and/or regulations.

I absolutely agree with you around fox hunting. It's just appalling, and this Government is totally opposed to fox hunting.

We will be joining a growing list of countries, and as I said in my original statement, if we didn't bring this Bill forward, we would be the only country in Great Britain that would allow the use of wild animals in travelling circuses, and I did not want Wales to become a sanctuary for travelling circuses in that way.

I welcome the Bill, and you're absolutely right, we can't be the only nation to allow wild animals in circuses to just be exhibited for people's pleasure without thinking that it's fundamentally wrong. So, I look forward to the Bill coming forward. I'm not going to ask all the questions that have been asked, but I am particularly interested in what is wild and what isn't wild, and how that's going to be determined, because I think most people are thinking about wild animals being exotically wild, and yet we've got native animals that are clearly wild, and so I'm interested in how that's going to move forward.

In terms of the licensing scheme, I'm also interested to see how that is going to go forward. You're going out, you said, to further consultation. It's about what should be included within that licensing scheme. I'll just put an idea forward: there is breeding for export of wild animals that currently takes place, and one of those is birds of prey, and they're being exported to the far east. Well, quite clearly, they don't live in the far east for very good reasons: there isn't any food source for them, it isn't the right climate for them. So, should we be licensing the breeding of animals to be exported, in the first case, under huge duress in that journey, and, secondly, in conditions that are clearly not conducive to their well-being? So, I would like to add that into your licensing scheme.

I would be interested to know how long those licences would last once people have had them issued, and how easy it is to revoke a licence, should you find that people have already committed acts of cruelty. I raise that because we have some dog breeding establishments currently, and they have been found to be guilty of cruelty, and yet the licence just passes to another family member if it's revoked at all. And if we are talking about licences and people being of the right character, we should also be looking at the legislation that follows that, and the sanctions that follow. At the moment, you can be as cruel as you like, it seems, to an animal, and you are not going to get more that six months under Welsh legislation, yet you could get five years if we did something about it. So, I think that, when we are looking at licences, we also need to look at the sanctions that follow. So, those are the things that I would like to add, following all the questions that have already been asked.   

Thank you, Joyce Watson. You ask about the meaning or definition of a wild animal. It's similar to the interpretation of a wild animal in the Zoo Licensing Act 1981. So, this avoids the situation where the same species could be considered wild in a zoo but then domesticated when kept in a circus. So, that's the legal definition that we are using. But you are quite right. I remember in my discussion with Andrew R.T. Davies, we were talking about reindeer, which people perhaps wouldn't think immediately of as a wild animal, but they are. I'm sure that we are all aware that, sometimes, reindeer are used—obviously at Christmastime—in different ways, in garden centres or parades. They would then be covered in the animal exhibit licensing scheme. That's why it's so important to get that scheme up and running too. And I absolutely agree with what you are saying about birds of prey. We need to ensure that the consultation specifically mentions that.

You ask about how long licences last. Certainly, the Performing Animals (Regulation) Act 1925 requires anyone who trains or exhibits animals to register with a local authority, but it is a lifetime registration. So, there's no specific inspection requirement. As such, it's unlikely that the welfare standards of an animal would be regularly assessed or checked. So, this is what I mean when I say that we need make sure that we close loopholes. I think this is an area where there is perhaps a loophole that does need closing. So, I very much look forward to going out to consultation on the scheme. As I said in my answer to Llyr, I hope to bring it forward early next year.

I've previously raised the visit of Circus Mondao to my constituency, which happened just a couple of months ago. I would say to Siân Gwenllian that I first got to know Linda Joyce-Jones when, as a county councillor, a wild animal exhibit visited my council ward. At that point, I wrote to Rebecca Evans, who was then the Minister responsible, and we had some dialogue about this. So, it's really good to see this legislation making it onto the statute book. That visit was by Thomas Chipperfield before I was elected here. They had their circus licence withdrawn in England because DEFRA were unhappy with the conditions in which some of their animals were being held, but they were still able to exhibit in Tir-y-berth. So, this will close that particular issue as well. We know that the circuses are in town because they are fly-posting. They have shown no adherence to fly-posting rules, so I wonder to what extent are they going to show adherence to this law. We've had two visits in the Caerphilly constituency, in Tir-y-berth. Can we have the assurance that this law will ensure that there won't be a third visit?

Thank you. I was aware of the circus that you mentioned having its licence revoked. As I say, we don't have powers to license circuses. That is a matter for the UK Government. Certainly, as I mentioned in my answer to Llyr, this Bill, I hope, with the support of this Assembly, will get Royal Assent in the May. I am very happy to look at enforcing it earlier than is stated on 1 December, but the UK Government do have to do that with the licensing regime, as I set out. But, I am very open to doing that. 

Thank you very much, Minister.