The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Darren Millar, and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Rebecca Evans. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected.

The next item is the Plaid Cymru debate on climate justice. I call on Llyr Gruffydd to move the motion.

Motion NDM7137 Rhun ap Iorwerth

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Welcomes the call from Greta Thunberg and youth activists from Fridays for Future for adults to join with students and young people striking on 20 September 2019 to demand climate justice.

2. Applauds the role that students and young people have played in Wales and across the world in bringing the climate emergency to the attention of policy makers and the public.

3. Supports the planned strikes and demonstrations by young people and adults on 20 September 2019.

Motion moved.

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and thank you for the opportunity to speak to this motion tabled by Plaid Cymru to declare this Assembly’s support for the school climate strikes. Fridays for future, youth for climate, youth strike for climate—whatever badge you want to give it, there is no doubt that it’s now an international movement of young people who have decided that the time has come for their voice to be heard in the discussion and in the stance taken to insist upon action to prevent global warming and to tackle the climate emergency that we are experiencing at the moment.

Now, we know the story dating back to the actions of Greta Thunberg, when she held that protest in August 2018—just 12 months ago—outside the Riksdag in Sweden, holding a 'school strike for the climate' sign. She decided that she needed to do this every Friday until the Swedish Government aligned to the Paris accord. She came up with the slogan ‘Fridays for future’, and in 12 months we have seen this movement spreading to all parts of the world.

She, of course, will participate in school strikes in the United States this Friday, 20 September, and these strikes will now happen on every continent across the globe—from Iceland to Cyprus in Europe, India, Pakistan, Australia, Japan, the Philippines, South Africa, nations in South America, the United States and Canada. Here in Wales, I will be joining a group of young people from the county of Conwy who will come together in Colwyn Bay. I know that there will also be action in Wrexham, as there will be in a number of other towns in Wales. The timing, of course, is significant, bearing in mind that there is a climate summit being held by the UN next week.

Now, these strikes have been exceptionally effective, not only turning heads and attracting coverage, but engendering discussion around the climate emergency in classrooms and on school playgrounds, and also in homes, in pubs and in Parliaments, of course, as we have experienced today and as we have seen a number of times before today. But, along with what Extinction Rebellion have been doing over recent months, the political narrative around climate change has been transformed. Indeed, the terminology has changed. We’re not saying ‘climate change‘ now—we are now recognising it as a climate emergency. I was very pleased that this Senedd has supported a Plaid Cymru motion to declare a climate emergency—the first Parliament, as I understand it, in the world to do that. It was good to see the Welsh Government declaring a climate emergency too.

The momentum that’s been built by these young people, and by others, of course, has created this new environment in terms of a better understanding of what needs to be delivered. Now, I do understand that some people will perhaps think that we don’t want to encourage young people not to attend classes, and to miss a few hours or maybe a day’s education every now and again—that there is a risk to the pupils’ education as a result of that. But, that is nothing compared to the risk of the implications of climate change that they are going to face a lot more than many of us will experience.

I think we have to put missing the odd day of school into perspective. Before, back in the day—I can see the education Minister in her seat there, looking at me attentively and wondering what I'm going to say next. But, before my election to this Assembly, back in the day, I used to be a youth worker. Of course, we know there's a youth work curriculum, and, yes, formal education is very important—of course it is.

But, we're not writing off a day's education. Young people are learning in different ways—we know that—and a key part of the youth work curriculum talks about giving young people expressive experiences, participative opportunities and empowerment. What better way of delivering those outcomes than through these activities? We're seeing active citizenship in action from our young people here, young people coming together, mobilising, raising their voices and standing up for what they think is right. And the very least we can do, I believe, as a National Assembly is to offer our support to them in those endeavours.

Now, one of the most striking placards that I've probably ever seen in my life was one of those held by a young person at one of these events, and it said, 'By the time I get my hands on power, it'll be too late'. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has warned that we have 11 or 12 years to turn this around, and we have to listen to the voices of those young people. Of course, the strikes are very timely because of the climate summit that's happening next week, and I believe that Greta Thunberg will actually be addressing that summit as well.

We're in the throes of a climate emergency. We've said it before: it can't be business as usual, and young people have much more to lose. They'll bear the brunt of our failings. Yes, we need to act. We need to respond with practical actions to address climate change, but I think the least we can do this afternoon in this debate is to extend our support to those young people who will be standing up to be counted on Friday.

I have selected the three amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected. I call on Andrew R.T. Davies to move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Andrew R.T. Davies.

Amendment 1—Darren Millar

Delete all and replace with:

Applauds the role young people have played in driving the climate change agenda, however, believes that striking and young people missing school is not the solution.

Recognises the widespread public concern regarding global warming and that limiting climate change requires international effort and co-operation, and notes the following actions taken to address such concerns:

a) the world-leading role taken by the UK Government in tackling climate change and the transition to clean growth;

b) that the UK has cut emissions by more than 40 per cent since 1990 while growing the economy by more than two thirds, the best performance on a per person basis than any other G7 nation;

c) the introduction by the UK Government of a legally binding net zero target to end the UK's contribution to global warming entirely by 2050.

Notes the Welsh Government’s declaration of a climate emergency but regrets the government’s failure to bring forward a comprehensive set of measures fitting for such an emergency.

Amendment 1 moved.

Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I move the amendment in the name of Darren Millar that's from the Conservative group today. And I would be one of the biggest supporters of young people expressing their views, taking part in action, but I do think that we do have to pause and reflect when we actually encourage students and pupils to come out of school on strike, and the damage that might do to individuals.

It was put on a radio station this morning—well, I can hear a sedentary voice; I'll happily take an intervention—but I was listening to the Jason Mohammad show, and there was a contributor who phoned in and said, 'Those who don't strike on Friday are climate change deniers.' And that is putting a lot of pressure on people who most probably believe fully in what is being done to improve the environment but, for whatever reason—it might be sitting an exam, it might be taking a mock paper, it might be a special needs lesson that is organised within the school setting—but because of peer pressure, feel that they have to leave that organised setting, because that's what school is—it's an organised setting, and there's a limited amount of time that teachers and the school have to put forward the curriculum and get through the curriculum—and if it is climate change this week, which we all support making positive moves on and positive actions, what's it to be next week? What's it to be the following week?

I want to empower young people to make sure they do get involved—. [Interruption.] I'll happily take an intervention from the Member for South Wales West, but I do think you do need to reflect on that point when you're calling on people to come out on strike from school, and people feel peer pressure to come out through those school gates, because that's what this motion is commending people to do that you have tabled here today.

And it is worth reflecting on the journey that we have undertaken over the last 20 to 30 years, and the improvements that have made, especially when we've kept economic growth going as well to make sure that the economy keeps employment levels. [Interruption.] Happily.

As you invited me, have you talked to some of those young people about why they're out on strike, instead of just tarnishing them because they're 'out on strike', which I think is deflecting from the real issue? They're campaigning about an issue that they care deeply about. Have you asked them why they're doing it? 

I really resent the implication that I'm tarnishing young people. I speak to young people every day of the week; I have four children myself. I am not tarnishing anyone. In fact, in my opening remarks I made the point that we need to empower young people to be engaged in the process and put their views forward. But by your motion, which talks of strikes in education and withdrawing themselves from the formal setting of education—

You're just against strikes, aren't you?

No, I'm not at all. At the end of the day, if this was on another issue, I'm sure Leanne Wood would be taking a separate view on this. But how can you force people—force people, because that's what you're doing and I used the example that was on the Jason Mohammad show this morning—to say that if you didn't engage in this strike action on Friday, you would be a climate change denier?

We have made huge progress on climate change and we need to continue, we need to continue to do that. And, in particular, the carbon-neutral target set for 2050; the support that we have given to industry to make the transition to green energy. Let's not forget that, many days now, the entire energy generation within the UK is coal-free and carbon-free and it is green energy that is powering that and that is real progress in the real economy that is happening.

And, so, instead of calling for disruptive action within the school setting, let us empower young people to actually engage in the journey that the whole of society—the whole of society—needs to take, and make sure that they stay part of this journey, because, ultimately, it will be every sector of society that will benefit from a better, cleaner environment that has climate change at its heart, because we know the clock is ticking and we know that the time is greatly limited to 11 or 12 years for us to make that significant action and that improvement in our environment. But we do not support the motion that's before us this afternoon, put down by Plaid Cymru, which in our view is merely chasing a headline.

I call on the Minister for environment to move formally amendments 2 and 3, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. 

Amendment 2—Rebecca Evans

Delete point 1 and replace with:

Supports the call of the Fridays for Future movement for all politicians and business leaders to listen to young people because their determination, their ideas and their efforts are urgently needed to bring about a low carbon Wales.

Amendment 3—Rebecca Evans

Delete point 3 and replace with:

Welcomes the commitment from Welsh Government to introduce votes for 16 and 17 years olds in time for the 2021 elections to the National Assembly for Wales, giving those young people a stronger voice in how Wales rises to the challenge of climate change.

Amendments 2 and 3 moved.

Formally.

Formally. Hefin David. 

Let's remember where this is coming from: this is motivated not just by an issue people care about, but by massive frustration on the behalf of young people and fear—and fear—it's fear for the future that they have. It isn't something they're just campaigning on. It's something that is very material and real to the lives of our children and their future. And think about it, they're seeing the likes of Donald Trump being elected in America; they're seeing the Government of China; they're seeing what's happening in Brazil; they're seeing David Cameron saying he's going to lead the greenest government ever and then saying, 'Let's get rid of all this green crap', later on—excuse me, Llywydd—in the course of his Government. These people are scared.

I've spoken to an 18-year-old young Labour activist who's just off to university this month, Morgan Paulett, in my constituency, about how seriously we should be taking this. Believe me, I was sitting with him in the office and this isn't just a campaign; this is something that people feel deeply about their future. He actually sent me a couple of paragraphs, about which he said, 'If I was in your position, this is what I would say.' So, with your permission, Llywydd, I'd like to read what he would have liked to have said.

'Rising global temperatures mean that thousands of miles of permafrost in the Arctic circle are melting, which could mean two very worrying things. Carbon dioxide stored in that permafrost will be released into the atmosphere when it melts and there are pathogens that have been locked in the ice since the prehistoric era with which humans are yet to ever come into contact. Rising temperatures could also mean the drying up of the Indus river in Pakistan as well as unpredictable monsoons in India, meaning two hostile neighbouring nuclear powers with rapidly growing populations could experience acute food shortages in the coming days. These are just two of the many major crises that future generations will be hit with in the decades to come and many young people are increasingly anxious and frustrated about Governments, collective Governments' failure to deal with these threats seriously and commit to carbon neutrality by 2030.'

Those are his words. This is what he's written for me and wanted me to say, and I have no problem saying it. He added to that that he would like a youth general strike across the world to deal with this. This is his view.

My view is that we need to look at what we can do here, and I feel strongly, and I've said before in this Chamber, we need fundamental root-and-branch reform of our representative democracy in this country, and I think part of it is making sure 16-year-olds have a voice, and part of it is making sure that when you vote, the parties you vote for are then represented and they have to work on these issues or they will lose power. Donald Trump wasn't elected by a system that works. It isn't true representative democracy, in my view, in America. Certainly not in China and the same in Brazil. We need young people's voices to be heard and I think those changes in our democracy will enable that.

I'd also like to draw the Chamber's attention to—. I'm seeing my time's up. We've got three minutes, Llywydd, for these speeches. 

Yes.

Okay. Well, I'd also say that Coleg y Cymoedd in Ystrad Mynach is holding a protest at 12.30 p.m. to 1.30 p.m. at the UCU campus, and staff and students at the college are taking very clear actions to deal with that issue too. Apologies, I thought I had longer. So, I wanted to highlight attention to that, but, really, what I'm saying is: listen to these people and change our system to help them.

The movement towards greater environmental awareness is a long one and it's been building momentum since the 1960s and 1970s across the world, and the current, arguably, much bigger movement has come about after years of raising awareness and concerns. So, we've submitted this motion because younger people are right to be concerned about the environment that they are currently set to inherit.

When young people see global policy makers simply not doing enough, or agreeing to measures and international goals that scientists and those working in the field in every capacity criticise as not enough, or too little too late, well, I can understand why they would feel compelled to get to direct action to make their voices heard and to make those voices heard now. If children and young people want to miss school to strike on this issue—. Call it whatever you want: call it direct action; call it a protest. Let's not deflect from what it is: it's young people getting out there, having a voice, and I support this wholeheartedly.

How many times in this Chamber have we sat here, wanting to get more young people involved in politics? Sometimes we're struggling or they're not interested or they're disengaged or we can't make then come forward to us with opinions, and then they come out, and then we're going, 'Oh my God, isn't it awful that little Johnny's left school because they've come out and have an opinion on something? Oh, my gosh, how dare they have an opinion?' Let's patronise them to death instead and say, 'Well, let's go and sit in a room with them and ask them what they think, but let's not really listen; let's just go away and pretend that we've listened and then we're all okay and we can go back to what we've always done and ignore them.' They're not going to be ignored this time, and more fool us if they are going to be this time because I hope that we'll see more young people getting elected so that they can tell us, 'Well, actually, this is why we are doing it because you ignored us at your peril.'

And another thing: how many times have we seen young people from schools—sorry, I've got my hands on my hip; I'm sure Elin Jones won't have a go—being wheeled out for the royal family, waving their little flags to the Queen? Yes, they get permission from their school, but do you hear people complaining? Do we hear the Tory benches complaining that they've missed an hour of school? No, we don't. So, it's okay for them to do that, but it's not okay for them to have a political opinion, one that doesn't suit them.

And if you talk about strikes, well, I had a Twitter tête-à-tête with Andrew R.T. Davies about the hauliers who were blocking the roads. They were moving very slowly, but they were still blocking the roads. And yourself, and Nick Bourne previously, came out and supported them wholeheartedly. You went to the M4 petrol station and you stood there with them with a petition, saying that you supported them. If that's not direct action, what is it?

[Inaudible.]—distort the view, but I was a member, like you, of the Petitions Committee and I was receiving a petition from them because the police had stopped them coming to the Assembly. They were corralled in Cardiff—[Interruption.] I can hear the Member for the Rhondda heckling again, as she normally does, but don't try and distort the situation. They couldn't come to the Assembly that day because the police had stopped them.

I'm not trying to distort the situation. You supported that and I'm saying that is totally fine, but don't dismiss another cause just because it's deemed to be a strike and something that you don't think is politically pertinent for young people to do.

I'm running out of time, so all I would like to say is: listen to the young people when they bring those issues to us. Take them seriously, hear them, meet with them and don't patronise them.

I was surprised to receive an e-mail from one of my children's schools earlier, saying, 'We are happy to authorise leave for any students. Please let us know if your child will be absent due to taking part in the strike.' I was particularly surprised because my child in question is two years old.

But I oppose these strikes; I don't support strikes in general. I think strikes are a sense of a failure, whether in an employment context or whether here, and Plaid are boasting about how these are happening everywhere in the world. Part of the problem of them is they are indiscriminate. I give way.

Thank you very much for giving way. All I wanted to make was the point that, yes, this strike is a symptom of failure, the failure to get to grips with the climate emergency that we're currently facing.

This country has reduced carbon dioxide emissions by more than almost any country in the world. A 40 per cent cut in carbon dioxide emissions since 1990. We have cut back our emissions levels not to those of the 1980s but to the 1880s. Where is the recognition of that?

Will you take an intervention? Do you think climate change is a real thing, or do you think we're making it up?

Rhianon Passmore is also trying to intervene, so if I could deal with the point she also made earlier, because it's as relevant—she asked one of my colleagues, 'Do the Brexit Party now accept that the problems of air quality and climate change are intricately linked?' Yes, we do. And a key way in which they have been intricately linked is the policy of Labour Governments and the European Union to incentivise a switch from petrol to diesel, because the marginal reduction in carbon dioxide emissions is actually what is leading to much of the problems we were discussing in our last debate in terms of air pollution and people dying who otherwise would not be so—

So, you do believe in climate change now.

I have always—well, since I studied the subject, since Margaret Thatcher first put this on the agenda by speaking to the UN about what was potentially happening with climate—[Interruption.] My view, ever since I first started looking at this issue 20 or 30 years ago, has been that it is likely that human activity is increasing the climate. What I questioned is what should be done about it, what are the policies that are being applied? Like the switch from petrol to diesel, in many of them, the costs of those policies are greater than any benefit. In this country, we have cut 40 per cent emissions. We had a target of an 80 per cent cut; there was something of a consensus, almost, developing around it. But now we've gone to a 90 or 100 per cent cut and we talk about it and we virtue signal, but do we actually will the means to do what would be needed? Do we want to shut down Port Talbot? Do we want to get rid of all the livestock farming in Wales? What about when the Committee on Climate Change advises Welsh Government of the billions we will have to switch from other priorities to climate change if we want to get even to the 90 per cent reduction, let alone net zero? Oh, they couldn't possibly manage that. [Interruption.] I give way—no, I will conclude because I am already in the red. And I say, do you want to rip out every gas boiler for every home in this country? If so, how are you going to pay for it? Start addressing some of these issues, start recognising that this country has done more than any other country in the world so far to reduce its emissions and have a sensible policy rather than just this virtue signalling, plus strikes.

I've heard lots of criticism here today of our Government by the Tories, but I hope that they will criticise the Tory Government in Westminster on their decision to cancel Green Great Britain Week in November. It reminds us again that, whilst the Tories claim green credentials when it suits them, their support for the climate change agenda doesn't go that far. But contrast that with next month, with the Welsh Labour Government's climate change conference going ahead as planned, and Brexit will not distract the Government from keeping their focus on the issues that must be addressed for the sake of the future of our children and future generations who follow them.

One of the most important actions the Government is taking is to change the way that farmers receive subsidy payments from Government, with proposals that all farmers will be rewarded for the vital contributions they make to looking after the environment, protecting habitats and tackling climate change. And that change will see billions invested in protecting the natural environment in Wales. I note also that Plaid Cymru opposes some of those changes and prefers instead that farmers are given payments based on the amount of land that they farm, and the biggest payment going to the largest farms. I'm sure if Plaid Cymru can today commit to changing that position on this issue, then I'm sure that everyone will warmly welcome it.

I'd also warmly welcome a commitment by Plaid Cymru to welcome some of the work that's going into the Summit to Sea—O'r Mynydd i'r Môr. It's a pioneering project that will rewild the area from the Pumlumon massif, the highest area in mid Wales, down through the wooded valleys to the Dyfi estuary and out into Cardigan bay. And within five years it will bring together one continuous nature-rich area comprising at least 10,000 hectares of land and 28,500 hectares of sea. It's that sort of action that actually will make a difference.

I've heard a lot of people being very emotional here today, and it is, in some ways, a very emotive issue, but there's very little point in anybody, whomsoever they are, sitting on a chair that they haven't actually thought about where that wood has come from. So, people go into department stores and they buy goods that are quite cheap, they take them home and very often they're sitting on the very seats that have created the clearance of the Brazilian rainforest, whilst they're sitting there crying in desperation about what that is doing to the world's climate. So, I suppose my point here is: whilst the politicians will do what they can, some will do more than others, and the citizens also have to look at what they're doing and ask the real questions when they're going about purchasing things for their own use.

The Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffiths.

Diolch, Llywydd. It's very clear from the motions and the amendments today that all the major parties in this National Assembly applaud children and young people for the role they're playing in the climate change debate. They should have absolutely no doubt as to the difference they've already made, and that they will continue to make. I and other Welsh Ministers regularly discuss climate change issues with the young people we meet. I recently received a climate change magna carta, produced by one primary school pupil, and, I have to say, it showed a keener understanding of the issues and contained in it a far more comprehensive set of measures than those suggested to me by some opposition Members in this Assembly.

In March of this year, the Welsh Government published 'Prosperity for All: A Low Carbon Wales', which sets out details of the origin of all greenhouse gas emissions in Wales and our plans to reduce them. On the day we launched the plan, the First Minister held a round-table discussion with children and young people to answer their questions about the plan and the actions we are taking. We believe we cannot rely primarily on individuals to tackle climate change on their own. This really is not an issue we can afford to leave to be determined by the free market. We believe Government must play an active role in making collective action possible.

One example of this is the eco-schools initiative in which, every week, thousands of children and young people take actions in their school that have a direct impact on tackling climate change and other critical environmental issues. This year we're also working with Size of Wales to deliver five climate change summits styled on the United Nations Conference of the Parties conferences, which will involve pupils from 80 secondary schools across Wales. Initiatives like these amplify children and young people's voices and support them to take action in their communities.

We must remember we also have a responsibility to represent those children and young people who do not choose to strike. That is why our Government amendment to the motion reflects the central call of the Fridays for Future campaign for all politicians and business leaders to listen to what children and young people have to say about climate change. One important way in which we can add further weight to the views of children and young people in Wales—and Hefin David referred to this—is through our commitment to lower the voting age in Wales from 18 to 16 in time for the next elections to this National Assembly in 2021. This is not only the right thing to do, it is absolutely necessary if children and young people are to fulfil the role that we need them to play in achieving a low-carbon Wales.

Llyr Gruffydd to respond to the debate.

Can I thank everyone for their participation? It is ironic that, in an earlier debate, Andrew R.T. Davies was berating a 'delete all' amendment and then getting up to speak to support a 'delete all' amendment in this debate, but there we are.

Hefin David is absolutely right: frustration and fear—young people are scared of the consequences of the climate emergency, and your constituent listed some things that would happen in decades to come. Well, you know, they're happening now. We saw what happened in Mozambique, with the recent cyclones Idai and Kenneth. The coast moved 15 miles inland, and Beira city was devastated—90 per cent of it was wiped out, with thousands killed and 0.5 million displaced. It's happening today; it isn't something that might happen in the future. Mark Reckless, I think I agree with you for the first time ever—strikes are a sign of failure. You listed the cost of reducing carbon emissions, but you told us nothing about what cost there would be for failing to deal, or for trying to deal, with some of the disastrous outcomes of climate events that we're facing as a result of the climate emergency.

I'm not sure why Joyce Watson was looking for a quarrel with Plaid Cymru, because you misrepresented two of our policies, but there we are; maybe we'll have to take that up later on, because I am limited in terms of time.

Greta Thunberg said, and I quote:

'Since our leaders are behaving like children', and I’m saying nothing—her words—

'Since our leaders are behaving like children, we will have to take the responsibility they should have taken long ago'.

And that is exactly what they are doing this Friday in taking part in these school strikes. So, let’s make it clear that we as a National Assembly for Wales are with our young people on that journey, and let’s support Plaid Cymru’s motion today.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.