That brings us to our next item, which is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Housing and Local Government, building on Wales’s recycling record. I call on the Deputy Minister to make the statement. Hannah Blythyn.

Diolch, Llywydd. This year marks the twentieth anniversary of devolution in Wales and has served as an opportunity to reflect on the difference devolution has made. We should rightly be proud that the past two decades has seen us become a global leader when it comes to recycling. In 2017-18, we recycled 62.7 per cent of municipal waste, and are third in the world for household recycling. This is an incredible achievement, and we would not be where we are today without the hard work and dedication of citizens and communities across the country. But it’s not simply about reaching recycling rates. It’s because it’s the right thing to do for our environment, for our communities, and for our economy. We've come a long way, but we're not complacent and I wanted to take the opportunity of recycle week to set out some of the next steps to build on Wales’s recycling record.  

Our ambition for a zero-waste Wales is stronger than ever. Recycling and increasing resource efficiency is central to tackling climate change and our response to the climate emergency. It is also key to unlocking the benefits of a low-carbon economy. I am pleased to be taking forward work on business recycling this week with the publication of our consultation on proposed new regulations under the Environment (Wales) Act 2016. The regulations will mean that businesses must separate key materials for collection to be sent for recycling, in the same way we've been doing at home for years. The proposed materials include plastic, metal, paper, glass and food. The consultation also proposes a ban on business disposing of waste into sewers. I've said before and I will say again: the onus is on all of us to take action, from Government to grass roots and everything in between. It's about all of us playing our part, not simply for the benefit of the environment, but the economy too.

Many businesses are already doing their bit when it comes to managing waste in this way. Businesses more than any other sector already know that far from being a burden, waste is a key resource that can generate income and bring with it commercial opportunities. It can make supply chains more resilient and by keeping resources in use for longer, support a more circular economy where greater added value is kept here in Wales. This provides businesses and local authorities with a major opportunity in respect of the value of the material that's collected and the savings that can be made.

We've made much progress on materials that are easier to recycle, so we now need to go up a gear and capture waste that is currently harder to recycle. This is why we're building on our successful partnership with local authorities to put in place new facilities to recycle absorbent hygiene products such as nappies. 

I've met with many people and communities across the country and have been moved by the commitment, passion and enthusiasm around recycling and tackling waste. Nowhere is this more so than in schools, where from Ferndale to Rhyl, I have heard examples of young people taking action. The Zero Waste Schools initiative being piloted in Pembrokeshire and Cardiff is bringing together the third sector, local authorities and Keep Wales Tidy. The initiative develops practical recycling initiatives in schools, helping to educate children in line with the recommendations of the Donaldson report.

But there is still more to be done to raise awareness and persuade people to recycle more. We know that more than half the material still in residual waste is easily recyclable, and getting that out of black bins and into recycling would see Wales achieve a recycling rate of more than 80 per cent. This would not only reduce the cost of waste management services, it would also have significant carbon benefits. To address this, I will be bringing forward a national campaign on recycling to support local and regional campaigns.

I recognise that, recently, concerns have been raised regarding what happens to our residual waste and recycling once it is collected. In Wales, we have already been recognised as having high levels of transparency with the My Recycling Wales website allowing people to see what happens to our waste—95 per cent of which is not exported. Investing in additional infrastructure is key to moving to 100 per cent of material not being exported.

As a responsible nation, it's vital that we dispose of the waste that cannot be recycled properly. For this reason, we have invested in the infrastructure to extract electricity and heat from this material and dispose of it safely to the highest environmental standards. This ensures that we can extract the maximum benefit from this waste and prevent it from becoming a problem elsewhere.

The incineration of waste for heat and power is, however, a transitionary step. The long-term solution is to move away from materials like single-use and fossil fuel-derived plastics. Action on plastic pollution is high on the agenda and we will move to ban single-use plastic products, including cotton bud sticks, cutlery, plates, straws, stirrers, balloon sticks and cups. But alongside a ban, we are taking steps to ensure the responsibility for the end-of-life costs of materials is placed on producers based on the principle of the polluter pays. We're also working to introduce a deposit-return scheme in Wales on options to tax or charge certain products and with partners in local authorities and the private sector on initiatives to develop greater plastic reprocessing capacity.

Our goal is to ensure that we lay the foundations to go beyond recycling and bring the broader benefits to Wales of a move to a circular economy. In this way, getting it right on the environment means getting it right for the economy too. Earlier this year, I announced our £6.5 million circular economy fund. WRAP Cymru has now awarded the first capital grants under the fund. These grants, totalling £355,000, are going to three Welsh manufacturers to invest in equipment to increase the amount of recycled plastic and paper in their products. It's being matched by an investment of over £1.7 million from the businesses themselves.

Yesterday, we launched our consultation to increase business recycling, and later this year we will consult on a comprehensive new zero-waste strategy—a strategy that will review and reboot our ambition and actions for a zero-waste Wales. I want the new strategy to go beyond recycling by working to deliver our commitment to decarbonisation and a truly circular economy. This is crucial in the context of the climate crisis facing us and in developing the green industries and opportunities of the future.

We are absolutely committed to building on Wales's recycling record and the Welsh way on waste: reducing, reusing and recycling for a greener, stronger and fairer future.

Suzy Davies took the Chair.

Diolch. Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Deputy Minister, for your statement this afternoon. It is right to say the mindset change that we've seen in Wales over the last 10 to 15 years has been something that can be proudly held up as an exemplar to other parts of the world, but we can't let any progress slip now. Obviously, progress needs to be made, and it's worth noting that recycling rates did decline—I appreciate only marginally by about 1.5 to 2 per cent—in the last reporting period that the Minister touched on, and I do think what's really important is accountability and the audit trail. I don't want to sound too civil servant-y, but when people do see images of far-flung places in the globe such as Malaysia and other places, with recyclable products that are clearly from the domestic market and, in particular, Wales, that really does cause concern, I would suggest, and credibility issues do arise in people's minds about all the efforts they are making. So, I would be grateful to understand exactly how the Minister can bring greater accountability to the audit trail, because it is a fact. If I just take two local authorities: Bridgend, for example, exported over 1,000 tonnes of recyclable plastics to an unspecified location in Germany; and Rhondda Cynon Taf, for example, exported 707 tonnes of plastic waste to an unspecified location in Malaysia, and a further 172 tonnes of waste to unspecified locations in Poland. I appreciate it in tonnage terms—considering there's 132,000 tonnes of recyclable product out of domestic households in a year coming from Wales—that these numbers are relatively small, but they cause doubt in people's minds, and it is vital that we can have robust measures to make sure that where bad practice is in place, we can stamp that out.

I notice in the Minister's statement that she does talk about 95 per cent being domestically used, or recycled, should I say? I presume you're talking about the UK market there rather than just the Welsh market, because I think it's important to distinguish between the two so that we do understand we're talking about the UK in its entirety. So, any information you can give on accountability and greater strength in the auditing process would be greatly received.

The consultation that the Government have out at the moment around the business community and the important role that they can play is something that is to be welcomed. But you have to take business with you, and I do hope that, obviously, this is a genuine consultation that will look at the practicalities businesses face and, in particular, some of the additional costs that might have to be borne here in Wales to achieve a goal that I think we all want to march to, but ultimately can't be putting businesses in an uncompetitive position. And I would like to try and understand why there's this obsession about making sure that either the household or the businesses segregate the recycling. I visited CWM Environmental in Carmarthenshire recently and they clearly showed me that their systems could work quite willingly with mixed recycling, because they can separate on site, they can. And therefore, if I take my own local authority area, and I declare an interest as a Member—they have just issued orange bags, white bags, blue bags, grey plastic containers, all arriving on people's doorsteps over the last couple of weeks to be implemented now in the next couple of months, let alone the storage issue of where people can keep all that, the ability of people to get their heads around another change in the recycling regime that was mixed recycling, only introduced 12 months ago, which is somewhat challenging when the recycling sector can do this recycling themselves. I accept that you can't put food waste in general recycling—that's perfectly obvious. But general recycling—there is the technology to do it and I'd be keen to understand why we need to be making such specific demands on household and, in particular, businesses.

I'd also like to hear what the Minister's views are, in particular, on incineration, which her report touches on, and household waste going to incineration, as a green energy, because, obviously, her and I have debated and discussed this across the Chamber here, and there are proposals currently in Cardiff, and I know in other parts of Wales, to bring incinerators online. So, again, I'd like to understand how, working with the planning system, residents' views can be taken into consideration, and where concerns are raised, these concerns are taken seriously. But, overall, we all want to submit to an economy where, ultimately, we look back and say, 'Do you remember when we all used to have to recycle?', because we'll have an economy that actually generates products that don't need recycling because they're biodegradable or all the rest of it.

So, power to your elbow in what you're trying to do, but you do need stronger auditing processes, you do need a more robust planning system when it comes to incineration, and above all, you do need to take business with you in the consultation, because, ultimately, if there is additional cost, that could take the competitive edge off businesses here in Wales when they're on a UK footprint.

I welcome the way you opened the contribution there in terms of actually touching on how the mindset has changed, and we've seen that cultural shift within Wales, whereas, perhaps a decade ago, we wouldn't have seen it, it wouldn't be second nature, and now, for the majority of people, it is second nature to sort their waste for collection. I remember being gobsmacked when I visited a friend elsewhere in the UK, shall we say, and I saw everything, including food waste and cardboard, all going into the black bin, and that just seems sacrilegious to us now in terms of actually how our mindset has changed and how we approach things.

You raised some really key points, and I did touch on much of it in the statement, but in terms of—. You're right about accountability and transparency, because now we've got to that point, we want to encourage more people to recycle and we don't want them to be deterred by any negativity around it. So, it's really important that we have that in place, and, like I said, we have been recognised for our transparency in Wales—the 95 per cent is within the UK. Ultimately, the best thing we can do is what we are doing now in developing the infrastructure to ensure that we can reprocess things in Wales so we not only reduce our waste but we reduce the need to export it elsewhere. I am very aware of the recent attention on this area, and I have written to local authorities to review the processes to see how we can enhance them. Also, it's something that perhaps we can consider, too, as we look more comprehensively at a new towards zero-waste strategy, as to how we can take that into account as part of that. In terms of when—[Inaudible.]—that go to a location, say, in Germany, or perhaps in the Netherlands, it's potentially because there is the market there to reprocess and that's what we need to grow here within Wales, and that's why our commitment to the circular economy and infrastructure is such a priority for us, moving forward.

In terms of incineration—and, yes, we have discussed this several times within this Chamber and outside—I understand where the Member comes from on this. In terms of the planning process, I think it's perhaps a matter for my colleague the Minister for Housing and Local Government, who's now sat in the Chamber, so will have overheard that. But as I touched on in my statement, we want to phase out residual waste being sent to landfill sites, and, actually, the use of incineration is a transitional period of what we want—to ultimately be at a point when we don't need to do that in the future and we don't use fossil fuels and we reduce the use of single-use plastic. So, it's something, actually, that's part of the towards zero-waste strategy. It probably won't be called that because I think we want a whole new dynamic strategy that actually takes into account the context of the climate emergency and the situation we are in now, but these are things that I'm open for Members to contribute to as part of the process as well.

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for her statement and welcome a lot of work that's being done? Obviously, our recycling rates are to be commended, but, obviously, we're in an age now where a step change—and climate change emergencies are the background to all this, and Greta Thunberg yesterday issued challenges all round. So, things are good, but they could be better.

Specifically in terms of the points that—. You say in your statement we need to invest in additional infrastructure to move to 100 per cent of material not being exported. A couple of weeks ago, we discovered that—because this is a local authority issue now, and, obviously, a lot of good work has been done by all our local authorities. But during 2017-18, the City and County of Swansea sent recyclable waste to various parts of the globe, it's fair to say, as it sent 10,007 tonnes to England, 3,697 tonnes to Turkey, 1,816 tonnes to China, and so it goes on—Indonesia, India, Poland. The City and County of Swansea recycled 27,559 tonnes in Wales. There's a similar story with Neath Port Talbot council. They also sent over 10,000 tonnes of recyclable waste to England in that year, 2,000 tonnes to Indonesia, 1,700 tonnes to Portugal and 974 tonnes to China, recycling 12,377 tonnes in Wales. I shan't bore the Deputy Minister with the other figures for the other local authorities in Wales.

But consequent to the sentence there about needing to invest in additional infrastructure, I would suggest that we need to support our local authorities far more aggressively than we are to develop recycling centres here in Wales, both at a local level and at a regional level, particularly for plastic recycling. So, can I ask specifically what work is being done there to support our local authorities so that they don't have to send recyclable waste all around the globe in those tonnage figures just quoted? And also, what are we doing as regards legislating to ban the plastics that cannot be recycled at the moment and just actually using plastics that can be recycled? Because I do find it astonishing that local authorities in Wales are sending recyclable materials so far around the globe. Residents in Swansea, in particular, are quite rightly asking why thousands of tonnes of their recyclable material is being sent not only across the border to England, but also to places really further afield, such as Turkey, China, India, Indonesia and Poland. Surely, that is unsustainable. What about that carbon footprint? We need to create the recycling centres and the jobs that go with them here in Wales.

I don't disagree with many of the points that the Member's made there in terms of, actually, the need to develop the infrastructure here, and, at the same time, not only does that have the environmental benefit, if it reduces our carbon footprint, but also it creates the green jobs of the future as part of the circular economy within Wales.

As I touched on previously, we've written to local authorities to review their processes and see how we can best support that as well. But in terms of actually moving towards making sure we have that infrastructure in place, particularly in relation to plastics, there is work actively ongoing in terms of making sure we get that investment here and getting companies to invest here in terms of developing the infrastructure that we need.

Actually, about the carbon footprint of going—some of the things—across the globe, well, working on a regional level is the direction we are going in, because we want to make sure we don't actually—it's counterintuitive to transport waste or recycling just the length and breadth of the country as well. So, through the waste management board, I work very closely with the Welsh Local Government Association and the representatives on there, working in partnership to make sure that we can actually develop the infrastructure that not only we need at a Wales level, and that we want, because we want to meet these objectives in terms of the climate crisis, and also increasing our recycling rates, but also to actually support local authorities in terms of the economic benefits that that can bring for them as well. So, these are things that I'm more than happy to update Members about as we move along, and hopefully we should have some more announcements in the not too distant future.

I very much welcome the report because of the ambition it demonstrates, because it isn’t sufficient for us to just be third best in the world. We do need to move to a position of zero waste Wales. As we've seen in the last few days, young people going on strike—they are demanding that we do something serious to save the world from the climate emergency. So, we have to ensure that all our citizens are contributing to our ultimate goal of zero waste Wales, and that must include businesses as well as people at home.

I wondered if you would congratulate St Teilo’s secondary school in Cardiff, which has abolished all food-on-the-go offers, and, instead of plastic waste, paper waste—you know, wrapping up things for people to run off with—all students have a choice of nutritionally balanced meals, but they have to eat them sitting down, with a plate and a knife and fork, which, obviously, is reused. I wonder if we—. Wouldn’t it be nice if all secondary school caterers were following St Teilo’s example? Because the tendency towards the junk food provision is really deplorable on many fronts, but particularly, in terms of today’s debate, in terms of the amount of rubbish that gets used as a result.

Last Friday, I was out with Pentwyn litter pickers, who are a fantastic group of volunteers in my constituency, who are cleaning up our woods and streets of litter dumped by, I’m afraid, other residents. One of the challenges is crisp wrappers; I saw one of them in the dining room just now. And they are a serious problem, because, to my knowledge, they can’t be recycled. Is there any consideration to put a tax on crisp wrappers, because they are absolutely everywhere on the streets, and why is the polluter not paying to clean them up? Equally, it would be very good to know, Deputy Minister, what the timescale is for the deposit scheme on bottles and cans, because it is essential that we do do this doorstep recycling, because otherwise it contaminates all the other recyclables.

I remember, when the environment Bill was going through the committee I used to serve on, that we had a detailed look at the obligations—we were going to ensure that businesses as well as residents were taking part in the recycling business, because it’s completely unacceptable for businesses to be flushing food waste down the drain, as I have seen when inspecting schools, as it is to flush chicken excrement into the waste water system, because, obviously, it contaminates; that makes the job of Dŵr Cymru that much more difficult. Both of these things can be reused. We don't need to—. Because, obviously, any animal excrement is a really useful use of nitrogen for enriching our land. And food waste—I heard some experts in Brighton this week talking about using food waste: instead of burning it in anaerobic digesters, that we should be thinking of using food waste to give to animals as an alternative to importing soya and corn from the Amazon and other places, which is a particularly harmful climate activity. So, I appreciate there are delicate matters to consider in this, but I wondered what thought the Government is giving to recycling food waste for consumption by farm animals—as always happened in the past—instead of burning it.

I thank the Member for the question. I obviously want to start by offering my congratulations to St Teilo’s school for what sounds like an absolutely fantastic initiative, and one that’s to be very rightly applauded and recognised for the work that they’ve been taking. There are so many examples of such enthusiasm and ideas from young people in secondary and primary schools right across the country. I think it’s really important, as we move forward with our work, that we look at how we can best share this best practice, so we can see it replicated in schools in counties across Wales. I think schools, eco schools and secondary schools have a role to play not just in raising awareness and teaching young people about the importance of recycling and reducing waste, but also actually practically what can we do within schools themselves, which not only benefits the environment but could bring other benefits for schools in terms of cost reductions as well. 

With regard to crisp wrappers, the Member has struck on the point that it is a particularly—those kind of flimsy, confectionery-type wrappers are the ones that are currently quite difficult to recycle. I know there are some schemes that do recycle, particularly, crisp packets, because I know of a school in my constituency, not far from where I live, that does have their own scheme of recycling, sending them off to a business. But it's certainly something, in terms of producer responsibility, to look at—how we can best incorporate those things that are the things that are currently hard to recycle and hard to reach.

With regard to a deposit-return scheme, now we're just working on it, and, actually, there'll be a further consultation in terms of, actually, the actual detail of how that would work in practice, working with all the stakeholders and all the people who'll be involved, as well as the campaign groups and local authorities as well. I've said from the outset that what we want to make sure is that we have a system in Wales that works—complements what we already do. So, complements—. Like we've said, we've seen the mindset change in people who sort their waste at home for collection, so actually how we best—for people to continue that, because what we don't want is for people to then think, 'Well, I used to be able to have it collected at home, and now I've got to go somewhere else, and do I get in the car, and then does that increase my carbon footprint as well?' So, actually, to look at it holistically and all those practical elements, and one way to do it might be to look at actually how we can use digital technology to help us with that as well: are there digital methods we can use, rather than physical tokens for things, as part of that? So, I'm really keen to get into the detail of that as we take that work forward. 

You're obviously right in terms of businesses playing their part—and public bodies—in terms of actually how we separate waste. It was remiss of me not to touch on that in response to Andrew R.T. Davies's first question in terms of, actually, how we bring businesses with us. I think a lot of businesses are already making their own efforts to do this, because they recognise the need to do it, and, actually, there's probably some kind of—you know, they know that probably their clients and consumers want it as well, because of the strength of public opinion. But, absolutely, we need to work closely with businesses and take them with us. As with the other consultations into the area that I've overseen, such as the deposit-return scheme and extended producer responsibility, I'm keen to hold sessions with stakeholders as well as we move forward. Obviously, there will be a transition period to allow businesses to make those steps, to make the adaptations they need to be able to take this forward. 

Just finally on the question on food waste, clearly, it's something that would need to be explored further, but I do know that—. For example, I visited not too long ago an anaerobic digestion site in north Wales—it was actually where my own food waste would go to—and the bulk of the food waste there goes to power electricity, energy for electricity. They were talking about, if you lived in a certain circumference of the site and you put your kettle on, it's probably likely to be powered by some of your own food waste. But also they actually use—they take the liquid as organic fertiliser as well, which local farmers do use in the local vicinity. So, there are things that we can—you know, how we can incorporate the two as well.

And, finally, Vikki Howells.

Thank you. I'd like to thank you, Deputy Minister, for your statement today. I was very proud that you kicked off Recycle Week with a visit to Bryn Pica in my constituency, which—. I may be biased, but I think it's at the vanguard of recycling in Wales, with innovative schemes there like their mattress recycling—I think they're the only place in Wales that does that—nappy recycling, turning nappies into plastic pellets that can be used to make decking, an anaerobic digester, the education centre, which I believe you visited, and many exciting plans for the future as well. And I'd like to associate myself with the comments made by Dai Lloyd about the potential for us to, here in Wales, really capitalise on recycling and use that to transform our economies. I know that there are many interesting proposals that they have in Bryn Pica, such as recycling hard plastic, which could be used to really rejuvenate the local economy as well, and to capitalise on the energy from the anaerobic digester. I know that Welsh Government has had some discussions around this, but I'm just looking for some reassurance that those talks are still ongoing and to know what sort of examples of good practice that you might have seen at Bryn Pica today that could be maybe rolled out across Wales.

I'm also really pleased that your statement refers to recycling in schools. I've had so many local schoolchildren contact me about this. It's an issue that they feel so passionately about, and I've actually held discussions with my local Youth Parliament Member and Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council about how we can reduce the use of plastics and non-recyclables in school catering. But, with the Welsh Youth Parliament pledging to tackle plastic waste, do you think there's any scope for Welsh Government to be working with the Welsh Youth Parliament to try to deliver on this aim?

And the third point I'd like to make is that social businesses are often already at the forefront of the recycling agenda, particularly when it comes to the reuse side of things, such as the award-winning RCT-based toogoodtowaste, who I visited over the summer, who recycle household goods and white goods and furniture. And also the Rhondda-based Greenstream Flooring, who attended today's UnLtd lunchtime event and recycle industrial carpet tiles for use in social housing. So, what work do you think could be done to roll out the good practice from the social enterprise sector into the wider business sector?

Thanks. I'll do my best to touch on all the points that the Member raised there. Yes, obviously, I was really pleased to be able to visit the Bryn Pica site today. As you say, there's a lot of innovative work going on there, and I was really encouraged by what's happening—less so the weather I was greeted with when I got there this morning, but—. I visited them to open the newly redone education centre with a group of local schoolchildren. It was brilliant to see how they'd brought everything to life, with interactive displays, which the children can take part in, which not only cover really practical things about what's happening in RCT at a local level, so that they know what is recycled and how and where, but also look on a Wales level and on a global level too, and talk about the impact of our behaviours and why we need to change things as well, but then give them some practical solutions that they then can take home and pester their parents with. 

I heard a very—. I do love the anecdotal stories of children shaming the grownups when it comes to doing the right thing on recycling and waste. There was a story about, I think, grandchildren, talking about the behaviour change campaign, and there was a grandmother, mother and a little girl and they went to speak to them. They asked the grandmother and the mother if they recycled, and they both were like, 'Oh yes, yes', and then the little girl looks up and says, 'No, you don't.' So, I think, you know, the power of children to actually—. We've seen the action of young people, as Jenny Rathbone touched on, and actually the strength of that to actually push us to act, because we have a responsibility and a duty to do what we can to leave the planet in a much better place for future generations. We're capitalising on recycling to develop capacity. Around things like hard plastics, I can assure the Member that that work is ongoing. I know the Minister for Housing and Local Government is also very interested in how we can support work in those areas, because that's what we need to do now to increase that capacity to develop a truly circular economy, and potentially the green jobs of the future for those schoolchildren that I met today as well. So, it's absolutely crucial and it all comes together. And, clearly, there is good practice at Bryn Pica and elsewhere that can be rolled out right across Wales. 

On the social enterprises, it's really good—really good—because a lot of the reuse sites that I've visited are all, generally, social enterprises, so, again, it goes back to those broader benefits, that it's not only bringing positives for the environment, but there are people going in there as volunteers, learning new skills and, more often than not, actually ending up with a full-time job as a consequence. So, reuse obviously has to be central to any zero waste strategy going forward. 

Just finally, Welsh Youth Parliament—I've already been interviewed by one of the Members of the Welsh Youth Parliament with regard to plastic waste and littering, and I expect to be called before one of their committees at some point. I'd be very keen to work with them going forward, because there are some fantastic ideas coming out of the younger generation and, actually, we need to—like I said, we need to do it, act for them, so act with them. 

Thank you, Deputy Minister.