2. Will the First Minister make a statement on ticketing services on the Transport for Wales network? OAQ54477

I thank the Member for the question. Transport for Wales will improve ticketing services through a combination of well-established and new methods. Two hundred and thirty-six new rail ticket machines will begin to be installed at stations early next year. At the same time, a new passenger app and web-based ticket sales will also be made available to passengers.

Thank you for that answer. First Minister, it's been brought to my attention that a customer who went to buy a ticket from the Transport for Wales app was offered the price of £30.05 for a cross-border train journey. That customer then checked National Rail, to find the same journey for £22.10. That difference could feed his kids for a couple of days. What is the Welsh Government going to do to ensure that Welsh train passengers are offered the fairest prices when they're travelling?

Well, the Member points to a general issue, which is that train fares are confusing, and people do sometimes struggle to find the best deal that is available. We support those measures that have been taken to simplify fare structures. It's why here in Wales we are abolishing fares for under-11-year-olds, and we'll have half-price fares for under-16-year-olds on the network in Wales. It's why we're reducing fares in north Wales and on the Heads of the Valleys lines, and why we've introduced standard fares for people over 50 making journeys of more than 50 miles. But I'm very happy to look at the specific example that the Member raises, to see if there are any general lessons that can be drawn from it. We need transparent ticketing and transparent pricing so that passengers can easily navigate their way to the best deal for them.

Last week, First Minister, I was written to by a constituent, in a handwritten letter, who outlined her experience of travelling by rail. This particular person is a disabled person, has mobility issues, carries a blue badge. I got the impression that this person is an elderly person, and she certainly doesn't feel comfortable, apart from the mobility issues, using a ticket machine on a station, because previously she had made mistakes and found it difficult to use. She also outlined to me in her letter that she doesn't own a phone—a smartphone—let alone know how to use one. So, she explained her difficulties to the conductor when he came around to collect the fare and check the tickets on her, and she said he came short of accusing her of fare dodging. So, my issue is that, with this particular lady, she was issued with a penalty fare, and I suppose the question here, First Minister, is what support does Transport for Wales offer conductors in terms of how they respond to and how they support people who have disabilities and mobility issues. And how does Transport for Wales's revenue protection policy support the kind of issue that I've just outlined to you? 

Well, I thank the Member for that question. When the new rail ticket machines are installed early next year, they will be easier for passengers to use and, hopefully, the constituent who's written to you will feel confident in being able to use them. Conductors on trains have a difficult job to do. They do have a role to play in making sure that people pay the fare that they are expected to pay, but I would absolutely expect them to go about that job in a way that is sensitive to the circumstances of individuals who they come into contact with. It's why we are having training programmes for people who are working for Transport for Wales. It's why we have a group specifically set up to be able to reflect the experiences of people with disabilities who use our train services. And I'll make sure that, through the Minister responsible, we draw the attention of Transport for Wales to the correspondence that Russell George has received so that it can be part of the effort to learn from that and to ensure that such incidents don't get repeated. 

First Minister, earlier this year it was announced that Transport for Wales had signed a £1.9 million contract with multinational information equipment and service company, Fujitsu, to improve efficiency and, as you said, to upgrade ticket office machines and mobile handsets across the rail network. So, First Minister, as the first train operator in the UK to commit to such an upgrade, the rail company's new STAR ticket office machines offer that prospect of providing an efficient ticketing system for all customers at stations, encouraging rail transport and taking cars of the road. So, First Minister, with the extra news of this investment in more than 200 new ticket machines plus providing ticket sales through local convenience stores to improve access, what additional ways can the Welsh Government use to ensure that Wales creates a modern, clean and customer-friendly railway service fit for the twenty-first century for our future generations and the climate emergency agenda? 

Well, I thank Rhianon Passmore for that, and behind her question lies the determination that we have and Transport for Wales has to make it as easy as possible for passengers in the very many different ways in which people now expect to be able to access tickets to be able to do so. Whether that is with the new and improved ticket machines, whether, as Rhianon Passmore said, by being able to purchase rail tickets at convenience stores or, as I suspect many people in this Chamber do, by being able to book tickets online, either through the new app or through web-based ways. We want to have as many ways as possible in which people are able to use our public transport services efficiently, easily and, therefore, as Rhianon said, to get cars off the road and people using the improved services, which we know will be there as Transport for Wales rolls out the franchise that was negotiated and which will lead to not simply better ways of buying tickets, but better services with which those tickets can be used.