2. What discussions has the First Minister had with the UK Government about the impact of a UK/US trade deal on the Welsh NHS? OAQ54664

I thank the Member for that question, Llywydd. The Welsh NHS is not for sale in any negotiations between Boris Johnson and Donald Trump. That point has been made repeatedly by Welsh Ministers, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to restate it again this afternoon.

First Minister, senior UK Government officials have met with representatives of US companies to discuss the NHS in post-Brexit trade negotiations on six occasions. On five of these, US drug companies were also in attendance. It is clear that the NHS is up for grabs for a US-style privatisation under the Tories. The Tories and the Brexit Party are ready to sell off the NHS to the highest corporate bidder. In Wales, the NHS is devolved, but international trade deals are not. First Minister, what concerns do you have about the future of our Welsh NHS under a UK Tory Government? And secondly, First Minister, can Boris Johnson be trusted to protect the NHS?

Well, Llywydd, anybody taking a serious interest in this topic would do well to look at the USA negotiating principles, published by the Trump presidency in February of this year. It sets out that all services—all services—in the United Kingdom should be open to competition unless they appear on a list of exceptions. And in the list of exceptions published in that document, neither the health service nor social care services appear. In other words, it is absolutely plain that the United States regards our NHS as up for sale, and a desperate deal that would be done by the current Prime Minister, determined to demonstrate that he is able to strike free trade deals across the world, would undoubtedly put our national health service up for grabs. That's why we are anxious about it here in Wales, and is the current Prime Minister to be trusted not to do that? Well, ask the people of Northern Ireland, where he went and gave them an absolute commitment that there would be no border down the Irish sea, only to find a few short weeks later that he'd signed exactly that deal. We can expect the same level of reliability in what he says about the national health service.

I've never heard such codswallop in all my life, First Minister. At the end of the day, you know full well your Labour campaign is failing and you're putting these scare stories around. The Prime Minister has given an unequivocal assurance that the NHS is not up for grabs. It's not up for grabs. But what we do know is, when it comes to the NHS here in Wales and US manufacturers of drugs, Orkambi, which is made by a US pharmaceutical company, is not available. Why don't you pull your finger out and start making drugs available that would greatly improve the outcomes for Welsh patients rather than running scare stories in the Welsh NHS, First Minister?

Llywydd, Members don't have to worry about what Andrew R.T. Davies has said because they could listen to what Donald Trump has said. Because Donald Trump, when he came to this country—[Interruption.] I see Members with their heads in their hands. They don't like it when the truth is told to them. Donald Trump came to this country in June of this year and told newspaper columnists that he expected the NHS to be part of a deal struck between this country and the United States. The US ambassador came to this Assembly in July and told me exactly the same thing. They expect the NHS to be put up for sale. We know that that party would have no problems in doing that. And the cost of drugs in the Welsh NHS will rise enormously because they are determined that we must pay the prices paid in the United States to pharmaceutical companies. They will put barriers in the path of generic drugs that have supported our NHS over so many years. The truth of the matter is, Llywydd, in this election, the future of the NHS is at risk like it never has been before, and the sort of noise that we hear from across the Chamber here is simply an attempt to draw attention away from the risk that they pose to the national health service here in Wales.

I thank the First Minister for his answers to the two preceding questioners. I think we may perhaps conclude, given the noise from the Conservative benches, that—I quote from Shakespeare—'Methinks, my Lord, he doth protest too much' and maybe they're not quite as confident in their leader's words. But, given the seriousness of the situation, as outlined by Mick Antoniw and as outlined by yourself in your responses to him and to Andrew R.T. Davies, do you agree with Plaid Cymru and the SNP that, regardless of the outcome of this Westminster election, in order to protect our NHS, what will be needed is a strong legislative statutory framework setting out in law that no UK Government could impose on the devolved administrations trade deals that would be, as he has pointed out, disastrous? Is it not time, instead of putting our trust in any UK politician, to actually put this into law so that we cannot, here in this country, be overruled?

Well, I thank the Member for the points she makes, and I have looked with interest at the proposal that the Scottish National Party has made for legislation in this area. As I understand it, that is legislation that they intend to move on the floor of the House of Commons, rather than in the Scottish Parliament itself. So, I look forward to seeing further details of it. I look forward to seeing how they intend to make progress with that Bill. Anything that puts a barrier in the path of those who would seek to change the nature of our health service, alter the basis on which people have been able to enjoy it over the last 70 and more years, has to be worth considering. And she's right, of course, the sounds that we hear from the other side of the Chamber are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.