Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

3. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 1:47 pm on 12 November 2019.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:47, 12 November 2019

(Translated)

Questions now from the party leaders. Leader of the opposition, Paul Davies.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, how many of the infrastructure commitments in Welsh Labour's 2016 manifesto do you intend to actually deliver?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

We will deliver the investment that we promised in our manifesto of 2016. Llywydd, we have already succeeded in delivering more of them and more quickly than we originally anticipated. If his Government had been prepared to invest in investment, if they hadn't turned off our capital investment programme, we would have achieved even more. But with the imaginative approach that we have taken to capital investment, using local authorities' borrowing possibilities and inventing the new mutual investment model that colleagues in Scotland have since adopted as well, we have managed to fill some of the worst gaps that his Government has left for us to deal with.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 1:48, 12 November 2019

It's always somebody else's fault, isn't it, First Minister? It's never your fault, is it? You need to take some responsibility. But let's look at one of the commitments, shall we, in your manifesto? Your party's manifesto in 2016 claims that you've already delivered the Heads of the Valleys road dualling, and yet the completion date for widening part of the Heads of the Valleys road has been pushed back for the second time this year, and with an eye-watering overspend, it's hardly something for you to be championing, is it, First Minister?

And, let's look at the other proposals for infrastructure in your manifesto. Improvements to the A55 in north Wales: whilst repairs have been made, I think you'll find it hard pushed to find anyone who would agree that significant improvements have been made. Improving the A40 in west Wales: I know as someone who regularly travels on this stretch of road just how little has been done to tackle this problem. And, the M4 relief road: well, First Minister, your Government's dithering has left communities in south-east Wales without a solution to its congestion, and in the meantime wasted millions and millions of pounds of taxpayers' money. First Minister, is it not the case that your Government is simply on the road to nowhere when it comes to delivering road improvements across Wales, and will you now apologise to those communities you've badly let down?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:49, 12 November 2019

Well, Llywydd, I think we've heard the title of the Conservative Party manifesto in this election: 'on the road to nowhere' seems to me to be a fairly succinct summary of their campaign in Wales over the last few days. I notice that the Member began by admitting that it is somebody else who is to blame, and that is true; that is certainly true in relation to the budgets that this Government has had to deal with.

Let me take the first of his erroneous accusations. As far as the A465 section 2 is concerned, my colleague Ken Skates made a statement in April of this year to this Assembly and that position remains the position today. We said in that statement that it would now be into 2020 before the dualling of that section of the Heads of the Valleys road would be completed. A steep-sided environmentally sensitive Clydach gorge, where the company responsible for the work has reported that there have been environmental reasons why it has taken them longer to complete the £1,000 million that this Government will invest in the Heads of the Valleys road, and which would never ever—never ever—have been a priority for his Government. If they don't want to see it, they should say so. We are very proud indeed of the record that we have, and if I thought there were any lessons to be drawn from a Government responsible for the HS2 fiasco, I now know where I can go—on the road to nowhere—to find them.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 1:51, 12 November 2019

First Minister, you can spin this in any way you like: your Government is failing. Communities across Wales are frustrated by the lack of genuine progress in tackling Wales's road infrastructure in their local areas. The Federation of Small Businesses have recently said that there is still no clarity as to how infrastructure elsewhere in Wales will benefit from the Welsh Government's decision not to go ahead with the M4 and that 63 per cent of Welsh businesses have been affected by infrastructure, including roads, public transport, digital infrastructure and utilities. Given the serious economic impact that your Government's failure to deliver significant road improvements is having on businesses and communities across Wales, what immediate steps will you now take as a Government to address this as a matter of urgency before the next Assembly elections?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:52, 12 November 2019

Well, Llywydd, the Member would be well advised just to keep up with the announcements that are being made by this Government. Within the last two weeks, my colleague the finance Minister has published an £80 million-worth of investment in infrastructure here in Wales. Only last week, she published the latest version of the Welsh investment infrastructure plan. All of that sets out the millions and millions of pounds that this Government is spending on infrastructure here in Wales: £1.8 billion to deliver 20,000 affordable homes, which we will deliver during this Assembly term; major investment in the twenty-first century schools and colleges programme—the biggest programme of investment in education infrastructure for 50 years and the biggest programme anywhere in the United Kingdom. This Government has a proud record of investment in the services and in the infrastructure that make a difference here in Wales. The Member could follow it if he chose to, because we announce it every single week.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:53, 12 November 2019

(Translated)

On behalf of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Ioewerth.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Llywydd.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

During rush hour, again, this week, Transport for Wales has been under fire for cancelled trains, missed stops and overcrowding. I don't think it's acceptable to hear passengers—including one telling a story of setting out early for a new job and reporting having to watch four or more trains pass through Queen Street station before finally finding room to get on one. These are problems people are facing day after day after day.

Given this, I'm sure you'll understand the alarm at recent reports that if Transport for Wales don't get the go-ahead from the Department for Transport to continue using old non-compliant Pacer trains before the end of the year, when new accessibility requirements kick in, the train operator will lose up to 30 trains or 60 carriages. This is half of their rolling stock on Valleys lines services. Around 19 Sprinter trains could also be taken out of action for the same reason, with implications for the Cardiff-to-Holyhead service. First Minister, can you confirm that Transport for Wales have robust contingency plans in place to deal with the potential loss of up to half their fleet and the chaos that that would clearly cause for passengers?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:54, 12 November 2019

Well, Llywydd, Transport for Wales remain in discussions with the Department for Transport, reluctantly seeking a dispensation to operate trains beyond the 15-month deadline that Transport for Wales were offered by the Conservative Government in order to bring about compliance, after many, many years in which that Government had taken no interest in compliance at all. Transport for Wales are not unique in this position. There are other franchises in other parts of the United Kingdom that are having to seek similar, temporary derogations. Those discussions go on, and Transport for Wales are fully engaged in them.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 1:55, 12 November 2019

The Welsh Government was warned by an Assembly committee in 2013, I think, that it must address rolling stock issues as a matter of urgency, especially in light of compliance deadlines that we knew were coming. Can you tell us why it is that the transport Minister left it until this autumn before requesting the dispensation to continue using those trains?

Officials warned as far back as May last year that you wouldn't be able to replace the non-compliant trains on time. You say that Transport for Wales isn't in a unique position in needing dispensation. You're quite right. Northern Rail in England is facing similar problems and has been granted dispensation on the basis that it will couple Pacers with compliant trains. Transport for Wales have indicated that they're looking at doing the same, but it appears that they don't have sufficient compliant trains in order to do that. So, where does that leave us?

On Northern Rail, several prominent Labour politicians have been asking for a fare reduction for passengers forced to endure the Pacer trains past the promised date for their removal. The calls have come from the Greater Manchester mayor, Andy Burnham; the Sheffield city region mayor, Dan Jarvis; the leader of Leeds City Council, Judith Blake. Can you confirm that this Labour Welsh Government will ensure similar fare reductions in Wales for the misery endured on your watch?   

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:56, 12 November 2019

Llywydd, advice to the Welsh Government in 2013 would not have been advice that any Government could have followed because, at that point, we were tied into a franchise over which we had no influence at all. That's why I said that we've had 15 months when we have had the ability, through Transport for Wales, to respond to this issue. That has not proven long enough because new rolling stock promised to Wales by private construction companies simply hasn't been delivered by them. That's not the responsibility of Transport for Wales. It is the responsibility of those companies who contracted to provide that rolling stock and who now tell us that they're not able to deliver, on time, the stock that was promised to us.

Llywydd, from January 2020, there will be fare reductions across the Transport for Wales network. There was no need for any politician to ask for it to happen here in Wales because it was already part of our planned programme of action with Transport for Wales.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 1:57, 12 November 2019

The issue on the dispensation, as you know, is that action wasn't taken on time by Welsh Government. But, if I could turn, for my third question, to something that I want to pursue in a non-confrontational way, if that's allowed during election time.

I wrote to you yesterday, asking the Welsh Government to support amendments that I've tabled for discussion in Stage 3 of the Senedd and Elections (Wales) Bill tomorrow, supported by a number of Labour AMs, calling for this institution of ours to be given the name 'Senedd' or 'Senedd Cymru', as I agreed as a compromise to get a legally agreed wording for the amendment. 

Because we have that agreement and the amendments are in order, now it is just about your will as a Welsh Government. You've already expressed personally your preference for using the term 'Senedd'. We're about to agree, hopefully, on calling us 'Members of the Senedd'. This building is already called 'the Senedd'. Now, all that's needed is the small but significant step of giving the institution that official name.

We are agreed, as a marker of the progress and of the journey of devolution, that this new legislation should describe this institution as a Parliament, and it does. But we're talking about giving our indigenous, unique Parliament an indigenous and unique title, like so many other Parliaments do worldwide. Will you take this one-off opportunity to back that statement that our Senedd, whatever our choice of language, Wales's Senedd is our Parliament?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 1:59, 12 November 2019

Well, in a similar spirit, let me thank the Member for all the work that I know he has been doing over recent weeks to talk with others and to bring forward proposals. It's an issue on which many Assembly Members have strong views, and it's not a matter for the Government. This is an Assembly Bill, not a Government Bill, and different Assembly Members will take different views on the right answer to this question. The Government took the view during Stage 2, Llywydd, that as a bilingual nation we ought to have a bilingual name for the institution that we operate within, and that will be the position that we will reflect in Government voting tomorrow, while Members of the Labour Party who are not in the Government will be able to express their view in the way that seems right to them.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:00, 12 November 2019

(Translated)

The Brexit Party leader, Mark Reckless.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative

First Minister, is it acceptable for a Welsh Minister to lie if their objective is to smear the Brexit Party? Further, did Rebecca Evans notify you or the Counsel General, under paragraph 7.16 of the ministerial code, before making a standards complaint judged to be wholly without merit and in respect of which the outgoing standards commissioner said her actions were, and I quote, disgraceful?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:01, 12 November 2019

Llywydd, every week the Member has an opportunity to ask me questions about the many responsibilities that I exercise as head of the Government here in Wales. Week after week he chooses to ask me about things that are not part of my responsibilities as head of the Government at all. The choices that Members make in their individual AM capacities are for them to make, and where they have complaints to make, it is absolutely right that they should pursue those complaints, and should do it without any sense of being answerable to the Welsh Government.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

No. You can continue with your questioning.

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour

A point of order on this very question?

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

No, no—no points of order on this issue. Carry on with your questioning of the First Minister.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative

First Minister, Rebecca Evans sits on the Business Committee as a Government Minister. [Interruption.] I raised with you last week—

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:02, 12 November 2019

The First Minister doesn't require, and neither do I, any support from the Government backbenches.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative

I raised with you last week one of your Members telling one of my Members to 'eff-off'. You told me that I should refer it to the standards commissioner to be properly raised and investigated. Now, the remark he makes about 'disgraceful', about your finance Minister, is about her politicisation of the Business Committee minutes, on which she serves as a Government Minister. He also said he wants to talk to her about her attitude:

'She seems to assume that if she says that she's saying one thing, that I start from the basis of accepting what she says, I have to look at the complaint to see whether she is a liar.'

It is clear to me that Rebecca didn't know the full facts of the case before she tweeted this—

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

You need to come to your question, Mark Reckless. We don't need quotations read ad infinitum by you. You are afforded the privilege to ask the First Minister of Wales questions on his responsibility on public services and the economy in Wales. I would suggest that you take that responsibility seriously and discharge it as the leader of the Brexit Party.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 2:03, 12 November 2019

Of course, the line of questions of your role are out of order, are they not? I of course accept your judgment in that matter, Llywydd.

Last week, First Minister, we spoke about the justice commission, and you said the justice commission report showed the way forward for the devolution of justice in Wales. Lord Thomas said that a team of just 10 civil servants could be relied upon to support that devolution of justice, because we could lean on the judiciary and the law schools in Wales. Yet the person who was, for almost 10 years, the leading judge in Wales said about women lawyers:

'You'll come across it all the time, especially with, in particular, young women lawyers, barristers, who get emotionally involved with their clients. It's the kiss of death.'

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:04, 12 November 2019

You are not coming to a question. I've asked you to come to a question.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative

What, Llywydd, does that show about the judiciary in this country, and about law schools, when he concludes:

'You fancy doing law, she's a Plaid Cymru supporter—'?

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

If you choose to respond to that, you may do, First Minister, but if you choose not to, you will have my sympathy.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

Llywydd, I regard that question as an abuse of the opportunity that the Member has here in the Chamber and I don't—

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

I have been accused of—First Minister, let me.

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

—intend to add to it.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

I have been accused of bias by a Member of this Assembly here today. I will ask that Member to withdraw that accusation, and I'll ask you to kindly do it now.

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative

Notwithstanding the truth or otherwise of the allegation, I withdraw it.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:05, 12 November 2019

(Translated)

Question 3—David Rowlands. [Interruption.]. Question 3—David Rowlands.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

I'm moving on. Cwestiwn 3—I'm asking you to ask your question, David Rowlands. David Rowlands, ask your question.