Questions now from party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Suzy Davies.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, I have to say I was very pleased when you amended the guidance, to be followed by local authorities primarily, requiring them to take additional steps before they made a decision on closing small, rural schools. And while that didn't capture all small schools, it was a statement of recognition of the place in the community of small, rural schools and their contribution to standards, and of course the negative consequences of having young children being ferried across large distances, and in some cases of course the negative effect on Welsh as a community language.

But small schools are more expensive, per head, to run, and to assist with this you've offered, from the centre, a yearly grant of £2.5 million to be allocated annually from April 2017 to support greater school-to-school working in rural areas. It's an annual grant, but I wonder if you can tell me where I might find it in the draft budget for 2020-21, and what use it's been put to since its introduction.

Can I thank the Member for the recognition of the important role that small schools play in our education system? On coming into office, I made a pledge to reform the school organisation code to include a presumption against closure, and I am very pleased that we have been able to do that. 

The Member is right, we have a small and rural schools grant, which is there to support the education of children in small and rural schools and to ensure that it is as good as it should be. There are some particular challenges to delivering small and rural schools: teachers being asked to teach over a wide range of age groups, for instance, and the ability to differentiate, as well as headteachers who are managing classroom teaching responsibilities as well as managerial responsibilities.

The amount of money available in the new financial year for the small and rural schools grant continues at the same level and will be available. Local authorities bid for that money and they have used it in a variety of ways to support planning, preparation and assessment time for headteachers and the employment of additional support within those schools, or, in one particular case I'm aware of, being able to make sure that that school is part of a wider pedagogical sharing network to ensure that teaching is as good as it could be when, sometimes, schools don't have specific expertise in an individual subject. 

Thank you very much for that answer. Obviously, I'm extremely pleased to hear that it is in the budget somewhere and that the use it's being put to is the use for which it was intended. Although local authorities, as we know, are largely responsible for school funding, schools are undoubtedly affected by decisions you make on the education budget. Over the course of this Assembly, you're making available £36 million to reduce infant class sizes, targeted at those most adversely affected by deprivation, but, within its clear limits, it's open, I think, to quite a lot of schools—many schools. Have you any indication of how many rural schools are in receipt of the money to reduce infant class sizes?

The £36 million that has been made available over the course of this Parliament to support smaller class sizes is made up of both a revenue and a capital element. The Member is right: one of the criteria for a successful application is a high percentage of children who are entitled to free school meals. But, we also support schools where, perhaps, standards are not what they need to be and they need to improve, and we also look at schools where there is a high percentage of children for whom Welsh or English is not their first language. We choose those categories because we know that that's where the money will make a difference.

The bids come in from local authorities. So, the local authorities themselves prioritise which schools they wish to support—they are a variety of schools across all of our local authorities—and I'm happy to provide the Member with a list of every school that has been in receipt of both the revenue and the capital element. 

Thank you for that answer. I understood that the targeting was at areas of deprivation, but it seemed that, in the way that it's been crafted, it was able to have a slightly wider remit than, perhaps, the pupil deprivation grant.

This £36 million, though—you'll have seen it in the press this week—has already prompted some questions about its value for money in terms of its outcomes. You've also heard that schools are worried that maintaining the levels of employment of all of these new staff, and actually populating the new rooms that this £36 million may have bought, may be pretty difficult when this class-size funding commitment comes to an end.

Some of those schools that have used this money will also be eligible for a considerable amount of pupil development grant income, but, of course, not all of them. So, firstly, can you tell me whether you're expecting the extra PDG that you've announced for infant-age children just this week to pick up the cost of this activity from 2020-21, which would soak up any rise in that budget line?

Secondly, what do you say to rural schools that may have made that investment in staff and buildings to reduce infant class sizes, but don't have access to high levels of PDG, which also supports the sustainability of schools in terms of staffing numbers, whose provision of SEN support, which goes back to my first question today, is doubly difficult due to sparsity and therefore, they can't tackle the effects of poverty in the way that they would like and, presumably, in the way that you would like?

Some schools in my region really do quite well through the central education budget, but my rural schools do not. And I can only imagine what this looks like in your own overwhelmingly rural constituency. 

Well, in my own constituency, I'm absolutely delighted that the cutting-class-sizes grant is providing for an additional classroom teacher at Trefonnen primary school in Llandrindod Wells, and it is providing a dedicated Welsh-medium early years centre in the Ystradgynlais and Swansea valley area. So, I'm very delighted, in my own constituency, with the impact that it is making.

But, let's be clear, in this academic year, some 95 extra teachers will be employed as a result of that grant; some 40 additional teaching assistants will be employed as a result of that grant; and, with regard to its sustainability, that grant will exist as long as I am the education Minister and through to the end of this Parliament. As for a future Parliament, I would hope that the evidence that has been received from parents and teachers of how valuable this grant is will inform a future Government of its important continuation.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Bethan Sayed.

Diolch. As far as I'm aware, this is my last session scrutinising before I go on maternity leave, all being well, so whoever's taking over from me, I wish them all the very best. Erasmus is the core of our students' opportunities to study abroad and without it, as we said yesterday, thousands of students would not have the opportunity to have travelled and to have experienced that abroad. It surprises me that the Tories, who claim to be aspirational, would even consider or hint at the possibility of taking us out of Erasmus next year. If the UK Government doesn't participate in the successor programme or complete negotiations on education partnerships quickly enough with the EU, our participation could be compromised and thousands of students, especially from lower income backgrounds, as Lynne Neagle said yesterday, will be denied any of those life chances.

Does it concern you as Minister that, in rejecting the amendment to continue to take part in Erasmus+ successor programmes last week in the House of Commons, and the UK Government seemingly not so sure what they're going to do with the future negotiations in this regard, that this is the UK Parliament—UK Government, sorry—playing ideological politics with the future of higher education? Would it not lead to more uncertainty for universities and colleges here in Wales after years of uncertainty anyway with Brexit hanging over us? 

Presiding Officer, I'm sure I speak on behalf of all of the Chamber in expressing my best wishes for Bethan as she begins a period of maternity leave. If I could offer just a little advice in this regard, don't be in too much of a rush to get back. [Laughter.] And I say that for purely, purely unselfish reasons. Bethan, you are about to embark on the toughest job that you will ever do, and in some ways, coming back to this Chamber will be a rest, I can assure you. [Laughter.] But I just want to wish you and your husband all the best on this wonderful, wonderful journey that you are about to embark on. 

It's so timely that Bethan raises this question this afternoon, because I understand, Presiding Officer, in the gallery above us today are a number of participants from an Erasmus programme—teachers who, as part of that programme, are able to work internationally to develop skills and understanding and to strengthen each other's education system. That valuable work is in danger of being lost if we don't get decisions around continued participation in the Erasmus+ programme right.

As we rehearsed in the Chamber yesterday, there is no reason why leaving the European Union is incompatible with our ongoing continuation as full partners in that particular programme, across the entire range of that programme, which supports educational exchanges for practitioners, for those in higher education, for those in further education, for our schools and for those in our youth clubs and our youth services. Wales has disproportionately benefited and has been highly successful in drawing on those Erasmus+ funds to expand the life opportunities for a whole range of children and young people and professionals, and that, potentially, is at risk.

Now, it is true to say that the vote this week does not preclude us from an ongoing negotiation, and I have used every opportunity that I have had and will continue to have to persuade Chris Skidmore and, in particular, the Treasury, of the real value of that money. And sometimes, politicians and civil servants need to be reminded that we can know the cost of everything and sometimes miss the value of some things, and Erasmus+ is an example of where the value that is appreciated is so much more than the financial sums that are invested.   

Thank you. Just to pick up on your first point about maternity leave, I'm sure that there will be lots of people who are pleased that I won't be rushing back. [Laughter.] 

In terms of worst-case scenarios, I asked the First Minister yesterday, which you were here for, in terms of contingencies that can be made, specifically in terms of the possibility of further education and higher education institutions here working directly with European institutions. And so, can you tell me what discussions you've had with EU partners about doing that? I understand that we're not able to go into specific bilateral agreements between the UK and EU on education exchanges, but I suppose we could be looking at our own relationship building with higher education institutions across Europe, as I'm sure we are already doing, but having to do that in a bit more of a pressurised situation to ensure that an Erasmus+ programme would be able to continue. So, can you just give me an idea about what you're doing in that regard, and what contingency planning is in train?

The Welsh Government and I have a hierarchy of preferences. Our preference is to continue to be able to participate on a UK basis in the full programme of Erasmus+. That is our preferred option, because we believe that there is strength in that brand, it is well understood, and it is aligned to the strategic goals that we would have as a Government. I am aware that the Westminster Government in English counterparts are potentially looking at a UK-wide scheme. That, I believe, is second best as it does not have—as I said—the recognition and the track record of the existing Erasmus scheme. I have had discussions with my Scottish counterpart and representatives of the civil service in Ireland to look at a Celtic scheme if there was no UK scheme available or the English Government was not willing to invest in this particular area. So, we're looking at that as well as having individual institutional conversations where our institutions in Wales are looking to secure partnerships with institutions across Europe. So, as you can see, there's a hierarchy.

My real fear, from discussions that I have had, is that there could well be a replacement scheme on the education side, but I am very, very fearful for FE in particular and youth services in particular and about whether there are any guarantees or any likelihood of a UK Government seeing the value in that. So, I'm less concerned about universities, but I'm very concerned about the wider entirety of the programme. 

Thank you very much for that. That's clear. The issue of Erasmus throws up some other questions in my mind, where we might not agree so much, I think—but I haven't said it yet—related to the wider health of the HE sector. Media reports over the weekend were clear that HE faces some very big challenges. The Vice Chancellor of Cardiff Met said—and I quote—that the talk of the sector was now, 'How big is your deficit?', not if there is a deficit.

I understand that some costs, such as those related to pensions have caused deficits to look larger this year, but it's clear that most institutions are operating in the red and there is also a continuing decline in the number of accepted applicants in Wales and a fall of 17,000 overall applications since 2016. Now, I'm sure you're well aware of the wider economic impact of Welsh universities, and we have rehearsed some of those arguments here over the past few months. It concerns us in Plaid Cymru that half of all Welsh students chose to leave the country to go elsewhere to university. We're not saying that they shouldn't go, but we are concerned that over half decided to go, and we do see that the brain drain from Wales that has happened over decades has not been tackled over previous Governments here in Wales.

So, my question to you, my final question, is: what are you doing differently to ensure that we can turn that around and encourage many more people to stay and to have their education in Wales? And I will say, just to end, it's not about not encouraging people to go elsewhere to study, but we have to acknowledge, for a successful and vibrant HE sector here in Wales, we have to look at how we can retain some of those students here in Wales because that is part and parcel of the issue at the moment.

Well, curriculum, marketing, recruitment and retention of students is a matter for individual institutions and not a matter for the Government. We have delivered, during this Parliament, the fairest, most progressive and sustainable support system, I would argue, anywhere in the United Kingdom, which treats Welsh students very well. But also, I recognise that universities are major employers and vital to our local economy and many of our communities, and that's why we've moved to a more sustainable system of funding and why we will see Higher Education Funding Council for Wales's budget increase in 2020-21 considerably as we deliver on our Diamond reforms. But the courses that individual universities offer and their ability to market and recruit to those courses is rightly a matter for them.