2. Business Statement and Announcement

– in the Senedd at 2:38 pm on 28 January 2020.

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Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 2:38, 28 January 2020

Item 2 on the agenda is the business statement and announcement. And I call on the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd, Rebecca Evans.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 2:39, 28 January 2020

There are no changes to this week's business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative

Trefnydd, can I request a statement from the Minister for Health and Social Services on mental health services in north Wales, please? It's been over four and a half years since the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board was placed into special measures, for, amongst other things, significant challenges in its governance, and mental health services. We are repeatedly told in this Chamber that things are improving, that steady progress is being made, and yet, just last week, a report came to light that suggests a quite different picture of services in north Wales, particularly in terms of psychological therapies. There was a report that identified, frankly, serious failings, including unacceptably long waiting lists, a lack of strategic and integrated workforce development, an under-resourced service, which isn't fit for purpose, a sense of despondency amongst staff. Now, frankly, I was very surprised that this report seems to have been published earlier last year—around August/September time—and yet there appears to be no discussion about this report, no report back to Assembly Members about this report, and the board itself doesn't appear to have discussed it in any of its board papers. So, I do think that, given the serious findings in that report, we need an urgent update from the Minister for Health and Social Services on the current situation.

Can I also call for a statement on the regulation of independent schools? The education Minister will be aware of the significant interest that there has been publicly as a result of the media reports into some safeguarding issues at Ruthin School in my constituency. And I do think that we need to look at the regulations around independent schools in order to strengthen the safeguarding arrangements, but, more than that, also to actually have a look at the Education Workforce Council's role, and whether it may be appropriate to have a discrete registration category, particularly for senior leaders in our independent schools, in order to ensure that they are appropriate? Obviously, there's a lot of outrage at some of the reports, which have been read, in terms of what's been going on in that school in north Wales, and certainly in my constituency, and I think it would be useful to have a written or oral statement on that as soon as possible.

And just finally, in terms of tourism zones, you'll be aware that the UK Government announced in June of last year that there will be a number of tourism zones across the country, which will be designated—[Interruption.]—and, no, it's not just England, actually, this is a UK-wide project. I was very disappointed that there's been no updates to this Chamber on any prospects, in terms of Wales actually being designated a zone, or even north Wales designated as a zone. It's quite clear from the UK Government that this is on offer for the whole of the United Kingdom, not just England, as has been asserted by the Minister responsible for tourism on your benches. I would therefore be very grateful if we could have an urgent statement on this matter in order that we can take advantage of this opportunity to get investment into Wales to maximise our tourism industry.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 2:42, 28 January 2020

So, on the first issue, which was a request for an update regarding Betsi Cadwaldr University Health Board, I can confirm that such an update will be forthcoming on 25 February. That's on the business statement, which has been published today.

On the second issue, regarding Ruthin School, Welsh Government is aware of those serious findings of the Care Inspectorate Wales report, and officials, along with Estyn inspectors, are considering an action plan from the school, which has been submitted following a request by the Welsh Government for the action plan. But the Minister has indicated she'd be happy to provide a further update, and I know that you've also tabled a series of written questions, which will also receive an answer.

And on the third issue, the Minister with responsibility for tourism is here to hear your request for further information on that. And it is important that, where possible, Welsh Government makes the most of the opportunities to work with the UK Government. But it is incumbent on the UK Government to recognise that tourism is devolved to the National Assembly for Wales and it's incumbent on them to have discussions with our Minister to explore how we could work jointly for the benefit of Wales.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 2:43, 28 January 2020

Adref is a charity that has been supporting vulnerable people and combating homelessness in my area for three decades. The charity is threatened now with closure, because Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council and Merthyr Tydfil County Borough Council have awarded the contract to provide local hostel services to another organisation, an organisation with little or no experience of the situation in Rhondda Cynon Taf and Merthyr. This will mean some redundancies. It will mean a loss of expert local knowledge about the homeless situation in our area and it will mean the loss of a small army of volunteers. Adref's great community work, like the Christmas hamper appeal that my office has supported for many years, is unlikely to be duplicated, and you can't put a price on community work like that.

So, Trefnydd, can we have a statement from the Government about local procurement principles for third sector contracts? Will you join me in urging RCT council and Merthyr council to think again on this matter and to recognise the great work that this charity has carried out since it was set up by probation officers who identified a local need back in 1987?

Health chiefs from Cwm Taf are recommending the withdrawal of consultant-led accident and emergency services in one form or another from the Royal Glamorgan Hospital. This has grave implications for the place that I represent, the Rhondda, and people are justifiably angry at the prospect of having to travel further in a potentially life-threatening emergency.

No-one has yet been able to answer the concerns about the ambulance response times, or the fact that a significant number of people living in the Rhondda are without a car. And that, in my view, is outrageous. People have little faith that their legitimate concerns will be taken into account following the sham consultation that was run back in 2014, where 60,000 people said that they didn't want the changes to go ahead, and those voices were ignored.

In many ways, the problems we face now are largely due to a lack of workforce planning from a succession of Labour health Ministers. Plaid Cymru put forward a plan six years ago to address the shockingly low ratio of doctors to people that we have in this country, and our plans were scoffed at by the very people who had the power or the responsibility to do something about it.

I will be gauging the mood of Rhondda people at a Plaid Cymru organised open meeting next Monday at Porth Harlequins rugby club. Everyone is welcome to attend. Perhaps Ministers would like to come and hear the strength of feeling from Rhondda people on this matter. You would be more than welcome to attend if you wanted to take up that offer.

But I'd like to ask: do you regret the lack of action to address the consultant shortage in Wales by your Cabinet colleagues? Will the Government make a statement on its plans to address the withering of district general hospitals, and emergency services in particular, which is a problem not just in the Rhondda, but across the whole of our country?

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 2:47, 28 January 2020

On the first issue, I don't think it's appropriate for the Welsh Government to be putting pressure on local authorities in terms of the decisions they make in terms of the awarding of contracts. However, I would encourage the Member to make her concerns known to both Rhondda Cynon Taf and Merthyr councils with regard to the local procurement. I will be happy, of course, to provide an update on Welsh Government's approach to supporting local procurement and the work that we're doing, particularly through the foundational economy approach, which my colleague the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport is leading on.

On the second issue, of course Welsh Government is aware that Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board has been reviewing the implementation of the remaining elements of the south Wales programme involving the future of emergency medicine, and proposed options will be discussed at its public board meeting on 30 January. Clearly, it would be improper and inappropriate for me to comment on or pre-empt those discussions, but we would expect the board to be working with stakeholders to consider options and then to agree a sustainable model of care for the future. I know that the Member will be making her representations as part of that due process.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 2:48, 28 January 2020

Minister, last week, Swansea Bay University Health Board announced that it was actually going to freeze recruitment to posts that are vacant as a consequence of the financial position it finds itself in, as a way in which to reduce the financial position and deficit. Now, this will impact upon my constituents, as it will impact upon your constituents, and many others who represent constituencies in the Swansea and Neath Port Talbot areas.

Can I have a statement from the Welsh Government highlighting whether it believes this is a way forward in reducing financial pressures on health boards? Because this actually could put at risk patient care, because every one of those posts, whether it be a member of the administrative team, the clerking team, a member of the physiotherapy, radiotherapy, radiographic—any member of a team. They didn't mention nurses and doctors, by the way; they said those were safe. But other members are crucial to the care of patients.

Could we therefore have a statement from the Minister on that position, and perhaps the way Welsh Government wants to work with health boards to ensure they do not find themselves in a situation where they're freezing posts, stopping people from being recruited, and therefore having an impact upon care?

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 2:49, 28 January 2020

The matters you describe in terms of staffing are, in the first instance, operational matters for the health board, but they have been very clear on ensuring that those actions do not affect patient care or the quality of service, and that is Welsh Government's clear interest in this.

Health organisations in Wales, like those across the UK, have to make annual savings every year to improve efficiency and to manage within those allocated resources. They're reported monthly as part of annual accounts, and indeed have been scrutinised over recent years by Assembly committees, including those committees that have made criticisms, actually, when those budgets have overspent or those savings haven't been made.

It is worth recognising, of course, that Welsh Government has invested over £0.5 billion extra in the NHS this year, and we've seen the underlying NHS deficit reduced by 35 per cent between 2016-17 and 2018-19, and we do expect there to be further improvements this year, demonstrating better financial management. But none of that can come at the expense of patient care or the quality of service.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative 2:50, 28 January 2020

Minister, may I ask for a statement from the Minister for Economy and Transport on the continuing delay to completing works to dual the A465 Heads of the Valleys road? This work was originally due to finish by the end of last year. We now hear that the date for completion for this project is being reviewed again. Furthermore, there is a dispute between the contractor and the Welsh Government over the costs of the scheme, which is already £54 million over budget.

Minister, could we have a statement on how this situation has come about, who is responsible for the design information of the road, what the cost to the taxpayer will be, and when can the long-suffering users of this road expect to see it completed? Really, it's a very, very tough job for the people living in Brynmawr and Abergavenny to travel on that road, because it's not only taking time, it's a real frustration for many urgent users. Thank you.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 2:51, 28 January 2020

I would say, with respect, that the First Minister did answer a great deal of that concern during First Minister's questions in response to the Conservative Party leader's questions, but I do know that it is the intention of the Minister for Economy and Transport to provide a further update to Assembly Members as soon he's able to do so and as soon as there is more news in terms of that dispute, which we hope will be resolved.

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru 2:52, 28 January 2020

(Translated)

I would like an oral statement from the Minister for health as regards what's happening now with the eating disorders framework given that review has taken place. We did have a meeting of the cross-party group last week, and there is concern as to how much money will be provided to fund the changes, what specific health boards are going to be able to do, and will they have capacity within the system to allow them to provide more staff into eating disorders work. I know that there are people who are very interested in this area and want to work with health boards to make this happen.

So, I would like an oral statement as I have asked so many times and I've only received a statement in an e-mail. I think this is an issue of such great importance to so many people in Wales that we would appreciate having an oral statement from the health Minister.

Photo of Bethan Sayed Bethan Sayed Plaid Cymru 2:53, 28 January 2020

The second issue I'd like to raise is probably more so in my capacity as Chair of the culture committee. Yesterday, you may have seen the Music Venues Trust has said that there's going to be a 50 per cent business relief for small to medium-sized businesses that are music venues across England and Wales. In their statement, they've said that 230 grass-roots venues across England and Wales will get that relief. I've been informed via my committee team, with Welsh Government, that that isn't necessarily going to come to Wales. It will mean that there may be a consequential via Barnett, but we are not sure if that's going to happen.

People are very confused, people want to welcome it, people want it to happen here in Wales, they want to see that business rate relief, but we don't know if that is the case. So, I would ask for a statement, in whichever form in this regard, to come from the Welsh Government to see what the Treasury is intending to do. Are we going to get that business rate relief, and when? And can you make a statement to the public, because there's a lot of confusion out there about the current situation?

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 2:54, 28 January 2020

So, on the first issue of the eating disorders framework, I will of course speak to the health Minister and make him aware of your request for that statement, which I know he will obviously give his consideration to.FootnoteLink

On the second issue, I can say that we don't yet know what, if any, Barnett consequentials might be coming to Wales as a result of the UK Government's decision regarding business rates. But we already have in Wales the high street rate relief scheme, which has been in operation since 2017, and that's unique to Wales. It does provide support, which is available to pubs and restaurants, and so on, so it's wider than what we might think of as particularly high-street retailers themselves. I did provide a written statement just recently indicating that we were extending that support into 2020-21, but I'd be more than happy to share that again with Members. 

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 2:55, 28 January 2020

Leader of the house, could we have a statement, please, from the Deputy Minister for social services in relation to a Government report compiled by the housing learning and improvement network around care homes and the provision of care homes? This report highlights that by 2035 there will be a nearly 30,000 shortfall in spaces across Wales for accommodation of this type of care.

Many local authorities at the moment are looking to reconfigure their care home provision; Rhondda Cynon Taf, for example, are out at the moment, and the cabinet will meet next month. I think it's important to understand, when Welsh Government commission this type of work, how that is fed into its partner organisations, local government in this instance, and how that information is shared when they're building in capacity. This is quite a live issue, to say the least, in the Rhondda Cynon Taf area, with many people wanting the retention of the existing care homes in that particular area. But it would seem to me that this particular report has been compiled on behalf of Welsh Government, but not shared with its partner agencies.

So, could we have a statement from the Deputy Minister to understand (a) the commissioning process (b) what she thinks of the report itself and its recommendations and (c) how she will be working with organisations that support the Welsh Government in delivery of social care across Wales to make sure that its recommendations are delivered on the ground? 

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 2:56, 28 January 2020

I'd be more than happy to pursue your request with the Deputy Minister for social services. On a slightly different angle, we do have an update on the inter-ministerial group on paying for social care on the agenda for next week, which I know is part of the wider conundrum that we face in terms of ensuring that we have a sustainable care home service here in Wales for the future. But on that specific issue of the report, I will seek to pursue that with the Deputy Minister on your behalf.FootnoteLink  

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 2:57, 28 January 2020

(Translated)

Given the budgetary processes going on in local authorities across Wales at the moment and the further threat to transport for post-16 learners in those budgets, can we have an update on the review of learner travel in the post-16 sector, the review announced on 13 November? And can you also ask the Minister or the Deputy Minister with responsibility for this area to outline the rationale for deferring the process of reviewing the guidelines on learner travel until the findings of the review of learner travel in the post-16 sector will be clear? Because these issues do need to be addressed urgently. For example, there are issues arising from all of this related to transport to Welsh-medium education, and the situation causes uncertainty and confusion. I would like to understand some of the rationale behind this delay and what the current situation is.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 2:58, 28 January 2020

I don't have a date yet in terms of an update on the review of the learner travel Measure. Since it was only announced in November, I suspect that it might be a little while before that review comes to a conclusion. But I would encourage you to write to the Minister for Economy and Transport with your specific questions regarding why the decision on reviewing the guidelines was deferred, because I think that would probably be the most appropriate and quickest way to get an answer on that specific question. 

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 2:59, 28 January 2020

I was going to call for a statement updating the situation in Betsi Cadwaladr; I note that Darren Millar my colleague has already done so. You said the health Minister will be making a statement on 25 February. Could I ask you to invite him to ensure that that does address the report that Darren Millar referred to on the psychological therapies review in north Wales by the TogetherBetter collaborative consultancy, an independent report? Because, in addition to the findings that Darren highlighted, it talks about a lack of shared vision about what you're seeking to achieve, a lack of strategic clarity and oversight at health board and divisional levels, and an enormous data deficit. And, worryingly, as the North Wales Community Health Council states, after nearly five years in special measures, much of it related to mental health issues, these findings are deeply disappointing. The key recommendations should have been tackled in 2015-16 when the health board was first taken into special measures. It is unsatisfactory to hear that these fundamental issues still remain unresolved almost five years on.

Could you also ask the health Minister to incorporate specific reference to vascular services in north Wales relating to diseases of the blood vessels, the arteries and veins and the body's circulatory system, where our health council in north Wales has held four out of what will be 11 safe-space events across the region, and they're hearing clearly that public confidence in the north Wales vascular service has been severely compromised? They say that many people have said that they've written to the health board requesting information under freedom of information, but have not received anything. The view is that if figures were positive, the health board would be keen to release them, and that the community health council themselves have written requesting performance data and this has also been denied to the community health council on the grounds that it will eventually be provided as part of the vascular services review, which, they point out, is in clear breach of the legislation and regulation relating to community health councils' rights to information. The North Wales Community Health Council executive has considered this matter and strongly recommends that a degree of externality should be introduced now to the vascular review reflecting this.

These are two of the key issues that are coming up across the region, one of which was the final tipping point in relation to the special measures. It is desperately unacceptable that, five years later, we should be hearing reports like this, and I hope you will therefore agree to ask your colleague to address these specifically alongside the wider matters that he may choose to present to us on 25 February.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 3:02, 28 January 2020

I can reassure colleagues that I always draw Ministers' attention to any contributions that Members make in relation to their portfolios during the business statement, and I'll certainly do that with regard to your particular concerns about mental ill health services and vascular services in the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board area. And obviously, the Minister will be making an oral statement, so there'll be opportunity for deeper questioning on those issues during that statement.

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru

I'd like to ask the Trefnydd for two statements today. First, with regard to the outstanding issues with regard to the census. I know that Welsh Government shares the concerns on these benches that Welsh citizens should be able to identify as black and ethnic minority Welsh without having to go through the inconvenience of having to write handwriting in a separate part of the form.

I'd like to ask for an updated statement from the Government as to their current position with regard to this and any conversations they've had with the Office for National Statistics. Colleagues from Gwynedd Council met the ONS yesterday and actually received quite a favourable response, and the ONS was asking for evidence. Now, I'm sure that Welsh Ministers will be aware that Gwynedd and the other north Wales authorities have found in their own monitoring systems ways in which black and ethnic minority citizens can register themselves as Welsh in the way that we would seek the census to do. So, I'd be very grateful if we can have a further statement from the Government about—a written statement, perhaps—the latest position in this regard, because time is running out and the ONS will shortly be doing further piloting with the forms they propose to use, and I fear that once those forms have been used in the pilots, it will be more difficult to change them.

Welsh Ministers will also be aware that Carmarthenshire County Council has reached a position where they have had to withdraw their application for planning for the current proposed site for the new Ysgol Dewi Sant. This is a matter of great regret to me and more importantly to my constituents and to the children who are being taught in conditions that, were they factory workers, the factory would be closed down because it simply isn't safe. Now, obviously, this was a decision that the local authority took; this is certainly not a matter for the Minister for Education, and I know that she has expressed a willingness in future to look at a further application for funding if it comes forward. But I would like to ask for a statement from the Minister with responsibility for planning, because the reason why this withdrawal has been necessary is that the county has spent over £0.5 million trying to respond to the requirements of the call-in process, and they have reached the point where they simply feel they have to back away from that site, even though, out of the nine sites looked at in the previous public consultation, this was the favoured site. So, I would like to ask the Minister with responsibility for planning to review the call-in process, particularly with regard to public buildings, to ensure that it is better insulated in future from party political interference, which has been at the root of this issue for Ysgol Dewi Sant.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 3:05, 28 January 2020

On the first issue, which was seeking an update on the discussions that Welsh Government has had with the ONS regarding the census and people's ability to identify as being of an ethnic minority whilst also being Welsh at the same time, I was able to update your colleague Bethan Sayed last week in the business statement. I don't have a further update beyond that at this point. But I did have a very good meeting with the deputy chief statistician and, like with the meeting that you described in Gwynedd, we found the ONS to be particularly open to having these discussions, and keen, as we are, to find a suitable way forward. And as soon as I have something further I will, obviously, update colleagues on that.

With regard to your concern about the call-in process, could I ask you to write to the Minister for planning, Julie James, outlining the particular case study that you've described this afternoon? And then she'll obviously have the opportunity to respond.

Photo of Delyth Jewell Delyth Jewell Plaid Cymru 3:06, 28 January 2020

I would like to ask for a statement from the health Minister about general practitioner recruitment in Aneurin Bevan health board. I've been told that the health board has failed to plan in advance for the retirement of a GP that serves the Lansbury Park and Penyrheol surgeries in my region. Now, both of those practices are crucial bedrocks of their local communities, as you can imagine, and they provide a range of essential services for thousands of nearby homes and provide business for local chemists as well, and neither has nearby alternatives, because all the other surgeries are full up. I'm concerned that the plan to hire a locum, rather than a long-term appointment to cover both surgeries, would endanger their long-term sustainability, and I'm also concerned for the general picture within the health board, given that a recent British Medical Association GP heat map indicated that up to 32 practices may be at risk within the health board area.

Trefnydd, I'd like to ask for this statement from the Minister to explain how the Welsh Government intends to turn around this failure to plan the workforce in advance, how it intends to meet growing demand, and what reassurance the Minister can offer patients in my region that these surgeries that they depend on will be put on a sustainable footing as soon as possible.

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 3:07, 28 January 2020

On the wider issue of workforce planning, again I will speak to my colleague the health Minister to make him aware of your request for the statement, but, with regard to your particular concern about the GP surgery that services Lansbury Park and the surrounding area, if you could, again, put that in a letter to the health Minister, I know that he will be able to take that up directly with the health board on your behalf.

Photo of Neil McEvoy Neil McEvoy Independent 3:08, 28 January 2020

I'd like a Government statement—or maybe some advice, really. I've stated several times that a child with learning difficulties alleged abuse in care—[Interruption.] I've no idea why there's a sarcastic noise from my right, from a Labour Assembly Member. I'll say it again: a child with learning difficulties alleged abuse in care. My information is as follows: he was not taken to a place of safety; he was not given an advocate; he was not spoken to by a child protection officer, a child protection specialist; he was told off. The written record I've seen says that he was told off. The written record that I've also seen states that the child did not change his mind on what had happened.

On Friday, I wrote to the children's commissioner, I wrote to the chief constable of South Wales Police, I wrote to Cardiff county council and I wrote to the public services ombudsman, because, when I named the company on social media, a now adult who used to be a child in care with the same company made allegations of assault against him—he said that he had witnessed two other assaults, one allegedly perpetrated by the convicted paedophile Liam Brown. Now, the point is that these children were supposedly all in the care of Priority Child Care Ltd. Now, I've written to the South Wales Police, I've written to the children's commissioner, I've written to the council, I've written to the ombudsman, I've raised it here several times to the point of a gasp, almost, from my right there, of disapproval.

So, I want a Government statement because I'd really like to know what am I supposed to do? What is this child's family supposed to do? Who is listening? All I've had off South Wales Police—actually, nothing; I've written to them twice. The children's commissioner, I had an acknowledgement. The ombudsman, I've just had an acknowledgement that seems to have popped up on my screen now. This is a really, really serious matter. This is supposedly our national Parliament. I'm raising it here. What on earth is going on?

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 3:10, 28 January 2020

Well, the issue that Neil McEvoy describes is obviously, clearly, a very serious one, and the individual who disclosed on social media that they had been the victim of abuse certainly should make those concerns known to the police in the first instance, and I see that Neil McEvoy has made those concerns known to the police, which is obviously the appropriate first step.

Neil McEvoy raised some similar questions about child safeguarding in a recent business statement, and I did indicate that the Minister with responsibility for social services would be writing, setting out the approach to safeguarding, and I'll be sure that your comments this afternoon are taken into consideration as that response is prepared.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you, very much Deputy Presiding Officer. I would like a Government statement as to what conditions the Welsh Government places on funding provided by it for businesses in order to safeguard staff and employment in Wales.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

I'm pleased that Welsh Government has been able to support Stena Line with a number of investments in Holyhead, but I want to appeal to Government to ensure that in providing support, it's able also to influence important local employers like Stena too. For example, I wonder if Government was aware of Stena's decision to re-flag its brand new Holyhead-to-Dublin ferry, Estrid. It's great to see investment in that beautiful new ship, but I am worried by the fact that in Algeciras, during a delivery from China recently, she was changed from Welsh to Cypriot registration. Estrid Cardiff was re-flagged and literally re-badged as Estrid Limassol. Now, there's a suggestion that it's driven by a desire to remain EU registered.

Now, I have met members of the ship's crew, who, as a result, now no longer pay UK national insurance contributions directly, and they're worried about the implications of that. But they also have longer term worries that re-flagging under a flag of convenience could be a slippery slope towards undermining workers' rights and even undermining Stena's previous policy, and current policy, which, of course, is vital in my constituency, of crewing locally rather than internationally.

So, as well as providing a statement, hopefully, can I ask Government, as I am doing, to write to Stena to seek assurances that workers' rights and jobs will be protected, and in doing so, that Welsh Government uses its influence as a part-funder of various Stena projects?

Photo of Rebecca Evans Rebecca Evans Labour 3:13, 28 January 2020

Well, I had a recent meeting with the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers to discuss exactly this issue, although it wasn't particularly in the context of Stena Line; it was more in the context of what we can do to support Welsh seafarers who work in all kinds of parts of the seafaring industry. And the concerns that were raised there were that when companies do take advantage of various opportunities that are there for them legally, then it does mean that some Welsh workers can be out-priced and that workers from elsewhere in the world can actually find themselves not paid as well as they should be and find themselves with poor employment rights as well. So, some of the concerns that you have described I very much recognise, and I'd be happy to ask the Minister for transport to provide an update on Welsh Government's approach to that, and some reflections on the opportunities that might be to change the law, although it would, I think, have to be done at a UK basis.