6. Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): Online and Offline Public Services

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:15 pm on 12 February 2020.

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Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 4:15, 12 February 2020

(Translated)

But it's not just access to the internet that is a barrier for people, but the fact that many older people simply don't feel comfortable using the internet, even those who do feel comfortable with e-mail or Facebook. Perhaps they are still nervous when it comes to making an application for something official such as a bus pass or dealing with financial services online.

Yes, some work has been done to increase digital inclusion, increase people's skills in communities and so on, but there are many older people, particularly, who choose not to go online, and they shouldn't miss out on crucial services or advice as a result of that. And people who aren't online often miss out on better deals when it comes to shopping or services such as selecting a gas or electricity provider.

So, what can the Government do? I'm calling on the Government to do two things to assist people from feeling isolated and from losing out. The first thing is to look at the public services that they themselves provide. The latest example, the more prominent example, is the decision of the Welsh Government to make the bus pass renewal system an online-only system. Particularly given who the demographic was, this was a very unwise choice, in my eyes, and you very clearly see, by speaking to constituents, that people are deeply concerned about having to do this online, and many people don't know where to start.

My office therefore offered that we would help people in making these online applications, and we advertised that through a poster in the window, a poster in the post office, and we spread the word. And since September, my office has dealt with over 300 bus pass renewal applications through the Transport for Wales website. Three hundred people who either didn't feel comfortable in making the application themselves or didn't have access to the internet in order to do that had they not come to my office.

And there were stories about people losing sleep as they were so concerned about how they were going to renew their bus pass because they were so reliant on buses. We are still now having people coming to us telling us that they've tried to make an application on paper and that there were huge delays with that, and some feeling that the paper-based application had gone to the back of the queue. And that was when the online system was crashing continuously at the outset.

Constituents also tell us that they have difficulty in finding face-to-face support in order to make these applications. Many were referred to us by libraries on Anglesey and by the council and so on and so forth. We were more than happy to help our constituents, of course, but we must ask questions as to whether that provision by Transport for Wales was appropriate, and whether the support that they claimed was available to assist people was sufficient.

It is clear that the Welsh Government values the bus pass for older people or they wouldn't offer that free service to them, and we support that, of course. It's very important indeed. So, it didn't make sense, then, to me, to put this barrier in place of the crucial process of renewing these bus passes.

I'll give you another example in my own constituency related to transport: a constituent had gone to a railway station in December to ask for a paper copy of the train timetable, the new timetable, but the only thing that was available for passengers was a sheet advising people that the timetable was changing and that they should go online to see the changes. That's not acceptable.

So, I would like a commitment from the Government that they will look to ensure that traditional options—off-line options, if you like—are available where public services are provided online, and particularly, I hardly need to say, when those services are targeted at groups such as older people or people who have learning difficulties who face similar problems.

The second thing I'm calling for is that Government should put pressure on third parties, the private sector, for example, in order to ensure that customers aren't excluded and that customers aren't disadvantaged if only online services are provided. The most prominent examples are banking services. I'm sure there's no constituency—correct me if I'm wrong—but I'm sure there's no single constituency that hasn't been impacted by bank branch closures. Sixty-three per cent of branches on Anglesey have closed since December 2015, and there are only six left across the whole of the island. You will hear the bank saying, 'Well, don't worry, people can use the branch in the next town', but then they'll close that one too. And in addition to that, you have the situation that we saw with Barclays saying, 'Well, our customers can't withdraw funds from the post office either.' I was very pleased that we had managed to put pressure on them to scrap that particular idea.

But it does demonstrate, doesn't it, the lack of commitment among the major banks to think about their customers, particularly older customers, and specifically, I would say, in rural areas? Yes, I do bank online myself and, yes, I do realise that that strengthens the case for the banks for closure. I am not blind to the change of culture that's happening, the change of habits among the population and the impacts of that. But there are people who simply don't want to bank online. They don't trust online banking because it is too much of a culture shift from what they have been used to. They simply won't change, and they are losing out.

I remember when I visited the Yorkshire Building Society in Llangefni when it was announced that that was to close, and the staff were literally in tears describing the customers who would come in to withdraw money, and it wasn't a single payment in one envelope, but it was, 'Here's your rent money, Mrs Jones, and here’s your money to buy food’, and so on. And that is a personal service that will never be duplicated online, and digital exclusion, that's what that means. It's the growth of online services reducing traditional services and people who don't have access to those online services are excluded and isolated.

Another example in my constituency was with the gas service. A 92-year-old constituent receiving a letter from British Gas asking her to organise a boiler maintenance check, and she was advised to make an appointment online through the app. Now, she was hugely concerned at this point. She was concerned that there was a problem with her boiler and a problem with a boiler can be fatal, but she was worried about that, and she couldn't make an appointment. So, she came to my office and we got in touch with British Gas to make that appointment for her. And their response was: