Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

1. Questions to the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales – in the Senedd at 1:36 pm on 26 February 2020.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:36, 26 February 2020

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Helen Mary Jones. 

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru

Diolch, Llywydd. The Minister, yesterday, in his statement on transport, set out some very high-level aspirations. He talked about the metro as having a greater focus on connectivity, decarbonisation and integration, and I'm sure that these are aspirations that everybody in this Chamber would support.

However, Llywydd, I remain concerned about some gaps between aspiration and delivery, and if I can take the Minister, first of all, back to some conversations that we had yesterday, the Minister will recall the commitment that he made, with the agreement between Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Government, that the feasibility study into the south-west metro would include the western valleys, including the Amman and the Gwendraeth. Now, in a written response to Dr Dai Lloyd on 20 September last year, the Minister replied that there had been a feasibility study, but that it did not, at that stage, include the western valleys. That was in the written reply. The Minister will recall that, three times yesterday by three different Plaid Cymru spokespeople, he was asked about whether or not that commitment had been met. He did not answer Dai Lloyd, he did not answer me and he did not answer Adam Price. So, I really want to ask the Minister today, has that feasibility study been completed? If it isn't completed, at what stage does he expect it to be completed? Does it or does it not—and let's be really specific—include the Amman and Gwendraeth valleys? And when will the Minister be able to share that feasibility study with Members, accepting, of course, that there may be some delays, because of issues relating to commercial confidentiality? 

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:38, 26 February 2020

Well, I think, as I said yesterday, in response to questions, we have funded the four local authorities, being led in this instance by Swansea City and County Council, who've carried out the initial feasibility study into the metro system. The work now will be taken forward by Transport for Wales. That work will be more expansive and extensive and will consider all parts of the region and how that metro system could be enhanced or furthered, both in terms of its vision and in terms of how we can deliver it. 

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru

I'm grateful to the Minister for his answer. It still doesn't tell me when we will actually know whether it includes the Amman and Gwendraeth valleys, and I invite him to see if he wants to be able to give us a bit more of an idea about that now.

But if I can take him to another commitment that he's made as part of an agreement with our party, he will recall that, in the final budget deal with the Welsh Government, we agreed not to oppose the budget, and one of the conditions of that was £2 million to be allocated to improving electric vehicle charging points across Wales. Now, he will, I'm sure, be aware that, as of October 2019, figures place the majority of south Wales local authorities in the bottom 20 per cent of local authorities UK-wide. For example, one of the lowest ranking was Rhondda Cynon Taf, with just three public charging points for 100,000; Caerphilly, at that stage, only had four; and the Vale of Glamorgan, only five per 100,000 people.

This was a commitment to a substantial investment, and I wonder if the Minister can tell us today what has been done with that investment, and how does he account for the fact that we have such low figures in some of those communities that need it most? I think we would all share the Minister's aspirations to move more and more people on to public transport, but there will be many people who will continue to want or need to use private vehicles and we need to get them into electrical vehicles where we can.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:40, 26 February 2020

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for the question regarding electrical charging points? I think the explanation is really rather simple: it's that there's been a market failure to date across much of the UK, including huge swathes of Wales. To address that, the Government—any Government—could do one of two things: (1) wait for the market to respond to increasing demand, and we have seen a significant increase in the number of charging points; or (2) invest. 

Now, if a Government is going to invest, there are further options. One is to just plough the money into existing charging systems and use taxpayers' money to pay for the infrastructure that's required, or use the moneys to incentivise the market. That is precisely what we're doing with the £2 million that was agreed with Plaid Cymru, working alongside the Development Bank of Wales, and the providers of electric charging points, so that we don't just get £2 million-worth of infrastructure points, but that we get many millions more, and, in so doing, drive up the figure quite considerably in terms of how many charging points we have across Wales.

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 1:41, 26 February 2020

I can understand the Minister's aspirations to make the £2 million go further—that makes a certain amount of sense, but it begs the question about time and about when this is actually going to be delivered. The Minister is right, of course, to highlight the issues of market failure. It's likely that market failure will continue to take place, both in some of our poorer communities and potentially in some of our more isolated rural communities. It's been interesting, of course, to see that Gwynedd has been able to do better than some other local authorities in this regard. So, when does the Minister feel that he will be able to provide this Assembly with a breakdown of exactly how that £2 million has been, or will be, spent? And will he be able to show us where those new charging points have been put, because I would agree with him that we wouldn't want public investment to be put in place to replace private sector investment where the market could deliver?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:42, 26 February 2020

Well, I can assure the Member that we have committed to developing an electric vehicle charging strategy for Wales. That is a strategy to be published this year. It's scoping out the context for further Welsh Government intervention above and beyond the £2 million in the provision of electric vehicle charging infrastructure. And I can also assure the Member that Transport for Wales's remit letter for the coming year will include commissioning them to support this exercise so that we can roll out, at the fastest possible pace, new improved fast-charging infrastructure for cars.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Conservative spokesperson, Russell George.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, under your watch, how many major transport schemes have cost substantially more and taken longer to complete than expected?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Well, I don't think anywhere near as many transport-related projects as the UK Government has been in charge of delivering, particularly on the railways. We only need to look at HS2 as an example of how inflating costs have spiralled out of control, or Crossrail, or any given number of road projects that are being delivered by Highways England. 

I would say to the Member, though, that it is disappointing whenever a road project, or a rail project for that matter, is delivered beyond the time frame that was promised, or delivered over budget. However, there are certain circumstances where projects have been delivered, either under budget or on budget and within the time frame originally envisaged, including that major road project in the Member's own constituency, the Newtown bypass.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 1:43, 26 February 2020

Thank you for your answer, Minister. Of course, my question was with regard to transport schemes here in Wales, and this is my job—to scrutinise your performance here in this Parliament. Can I ask, Minister, or make the point that the performance of Welsh Government in delivering major road infrastructure projects has not at all been glowing? And I appreciate that you accept the frustration when that occurs. 

Last week, the auditor general's report into section 2 of the A465 highlighted disruption, delays and overspend of £100 million, compared to the initial estimate in 2014. It was scheduled for completion in 2018 and was then put back to 2019, and it's now scheduled to be completed in 2021. Are you confident that there will be no further delays and cost increases, because the auditor general, sadly, isn't convinced of that, in fact, he's concluded that the final cost remains uncertain?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Absolutely. The Member is absolutely right—HS2 is the prime example of projects that can inflate beyond control. 

But, look, the Member is right: he's here to scrutinise me, and the dualling of section 2 of the A465 is an enormously important programme, and I'm obviously very disappointed by the further delay to this particular project. However, I can confirm, Llywydd, that the scheme budget remains as it was in my statement in April of last year. The budget remains the same: no further increase, despite the delay that was announced very recently. It's also worth reflecting on the fact that this particular project is now more than 85 per cent complete, with construction of more than 7.5 miles of retaining walls; something in the order of 1.3 million cu m of material has been excavated, and there has been the laying of 16,000 cu m of concrete; 30,000 trees have been planted and 15 bridges have been constructed. It's a huge endeavour. Whilst I do regret the increase in the overall budget since it was first programmed, and the delay in completing it, there is no doubt whatsoever that this complex but hugely ambitious scheme will be truly transformational for the Heads of the Valleys.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 1:46, 26 February 2020

Thank you for your answer, Minister. I think it will be helpful as well for the residents to be able to listen to your own frustrations that the project hasn't been delivered on time. I want to go to a more positive footing here, but, of course, it's not the first and only project that has been mismanaged; I'll detail a couple and come to my final question. A year ago, you were delighted to mark the beginning of the construction phase of the A487 Caernarfon to Bontnewydd bypass scheme and told this Parliament that it would be completed in 2021. Currently, the project overview on the Welsh Government's website says completion date is 2022. And then the construction of the Llandeilo bypass, which was due to commence last year—last month you told the climate change and rural affairs committee that it wasn't included in this next budget, and work hasn't yet commenced.

So, I want to get to a more positive point here: when are lessons going to be learned from these past mistakes? When is it that this Parliament can be informed and people across Wales can be informed of a project that is going to be properly managed, so it's delivered on time and it's delivered in a cost-effective way, as the original estimates listed? What is it, through procurement practices and contractual practices, that needs to change to ensure that that can happen?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:47, 26 February 2020

I can assure the Member that we already are delivering projects, road-based projects, to budget, and within the schedule that they are published, including, as I said earlier, the Newtown bypass. Two projects were highlighted in the Member's question: one concerns the A487 Caernarfon to Bontnewydd bypass, and the Member will be aware that during excavation of land in this project, important archaeological finds were made, and, of course, that leads to delays. In terms of Llandeilo bypass, the Member, I imagine, will be aware as well of concerns that have been expressed by Sustrans, which must, in my view, be fully addressed.

Of course, cost and time bias is built into projects of this scale. However, lessons are being learned, not just from projects here within Wales, but we also work as closely as we can do with Highways England, because this is not an uncommon problem. The discovery of archaeological finds is something that often you cannot predict—you simply cannot predict. In terms of excavation of earth and finding other remains such as unexploded bombs, or terrains that you could not see, and you could not assess before the work began, that need to be addressed, and that can add time and it can add cost, but we are working with Highways England and with others to learn lessons and to ensure that we bring in projects as close to the budget or, indeed, in the case of the Newtown bypass, at the budget that they were published.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:49, 26 February 2020

(Translated)

Brexit Party spokesperson, David Rowlands.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP

Diolch, Llywydd. Could the Minister please provide an update on the foundational economy in Wales?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Yes, absolutely. It's an exciting piece of work that is being led by my colleague Lee Waters. We recently saw the challenge fund unveiled, with a very significant number of bids. As a result of the enthusiasm for that particular fund, we trebled the amount of resource available, and we've been able to fund a huge number of projects right across the length and breadth of Wales.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Gerald Holtham, giving the Hodge lecture, said he had no idea how the Welsh economy was going to develop over the next decade. He made the point that Wales should look more towards the foundational economy to simply protect living standards. But he maintained that even if the Welsh economy grows to enrich most of the people in Wales, places like Merthyr were never going to match Bridgend, Swansea, Chepstow—and he should, of course, have added Cardiff. Does the Minister think that this analysis is correct?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:50, 26 February 2020

I'm sure that we could spend the entire afternoon debating this important area of concern. The economic action plan has the dual purpose of driving down inequality within regions and across regions, but also to improve productivity. Our focus on the foundational economy is new, and it has immense energy attached to it because we recognise that we have to ensure that we protect living standards and that we give opportunities to those communities that have felt very distant from areas that have benefited from economic growth in recent times. But, equally, we are committed to developing the highest quality jobs that we possibly can across all parts of Wales. That's what, for example, the Tech Valleys project is aiming to achieve. It's what our interventions across the Valleys taskforce are aiming to achieve. It's what our intervention in projects such as the Advanced Manufacturing Research Centre is aiming to achieve. And if we look at the results of our strategic investments in recent years, we can stand proud. We've got unemployment rates at the lowest ever level—the lowest levels since records began. We see gross value added rising faster than most other parts of the UK, and household earnings as well have been increasing faster than the average in the UK. These are all signs that we have been investing cleverly, smartly and in the right areas.