Item 5 on our agenda this afternoon is a statement by the Minister for Housing and Local Government on coronavirus, so I call on the Minister for Housing and Local Government, Julie James.

Apologies, Deputy Presiding Officer, I couldn't get my microphone to unmute. I hope it's working now.

The coronavirus pandemic is impacting all our lives. An enormous amount of work has taken place across the Welsh Government and within our public services in a very short space of time to respond to the pandemic. My aim this afternoon is to provide Members with an account of the most recent and significant developments in the housing and local government portfolio.

Firstly, I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to the Welsh Local Government Association and to local authorities across Wales who have worked so hard and been so responsive in mobilising to address the situation. Local government leaders raised with me at the outset the need to support local authorities’ cash flow so there would be no delay to urgent decisions and spending. I am therefore very pleased that we were able to bring forward the May and June settlement payments into April to support them. This provided an advance of £526 million across local government. I am also considering work carried out by the WLGA quantifying both the additional costs and the loss of income they will experience as a result of the pandemic. We provided funding to local authorities so they can apply the rates relief and issue the business support grants that were announced at the end of March. They have worked extremely hard to distribute these so efficiently—a huge thank you to them for all of that.

A single emergency funding stream for local authorities has been established to help meet the pressures arising from COVID-19. Welsh Government made £30 million available for this in the first instance. This included the provision of up to £7 million to urgently provide financial assistance to families of pupils who rely on free school meals but were unable to receive them due to school closures. It also included £10 million to ensure that, with their third sector partners, local authorities can put in place urgent and necessary arrangements to protect rough-sleepers. This has since been enhanced to provide a further £40 million to support social care delivery and a further £33 million to extend free school meal provision. 

The COVID-19 pandemic has brought a considerable challenge to recycling, waste collection and processing in Wales. I am very proud that, during this difficult time, our local authorities have continued to operate their waste and recycling services with the vast majority only making minor temporary changes. This is a reflection of our work over the last 20 years to develop high-quality resilient collection regimes. We have a goal for a resilient Wales and we have an opportunity to learn lessons here and work to support greater resilience in the future.

One of our key priorities in Government has always been working to prevent and end homelessness in all its forms. The vulnerability of those sleeping rough has rightly needed to be a focus for action during this emergency. I want to extend my thanks to local authorities’ housing and homelessness teams, together with Community Housing Cymru, Cymorth Cymru, registered social landlords and other third sector partners who have been focusing on helping people into accommodation. This means that they have been able to self-isolate, have access to hand washing and hygiene facilities, and adhere to social distancing rules. 

I have been heartened by the collaborative and innovative practice that is going on despite the challenging environment people are working in. I was clear from the outset that this wasn’t simply about placing people in accommodation and leaving them to fend for themselves. Accommodation has to come with the wraparound support to enable people to sustain it. We introduced clear guidance on the approach that local authorities should take and provided an additional £10 million to enable them to enact it.

In the last few weeks, 500 people have been supported into accommodation, and rough-sleeper numbers are in single digits in every local authority in Wales. Local authorities and their partners continue to support those few people who are still sleeping rough. We have also been working to see how our Housing First projects may be able to assist these individuals.

No-one should be left without accommodation and support during this emergency. This includes those with no recourse to public funds and those leaving institutions, such as prisons. We are working very closely with Her Majesty's Prison and Probation Service, local authorities and health colleagues to ensure both the potential early-release prisoners and standard release prisoners are supported into accommodation.

My officials have been working directly with a number of local authorities to help secure more accommodation. We are also working closely with local authorities and wider stakeholders to consider the exit strategy from this current emergency. The work recently done by the homelessness action group provides us with a blueprint on how to end homelessness in Wales, and this will be vital in informing the approach to our exit strategy. Let me be clear: we cannot go back. We have an opportunity to engage with individuals who have never been in services before. The assistance being offered now can provide the foundation to rebuild lives once this crisis ends.

While there has rightly been a focused effort in these areas, my officials are heavily engaged across a range of issues. For example, we have already taken action to ensure that tenants experiencing financial hardship as a result of COVID-19 cannot be evicted. I would like to extend my thanks to all landlords and letting agents for taking a pragmatic and supportive approach to helping tenants through this crisis. We recognise that there is still much to do to prevent an increase in evictions, and welcome the ongoing collaborative work across the social and private sectors to ensure that evictions really are the last resort.

We have worked with our construction partners and the association representing building supply merchants to establish what outlets are open, what they can supply and to whom. This is critical in terms of allowing agencies such as Care and Repair to continue their invaluable work. We have acted quickly to make changes to our planning and building control systems so that local authorities and the NHS can provide additional healthcare capacity. This has allowed the construction of the Nightingale hospitals across Wales at great speed. 

I would also like to extend my thanks to the fire and rescue services, who have proved to be remarkably resilient during this pandemic. Absence levels due to COVID-19 are no more than 4 per cent, and the service has maintained full operational capability across Wales. The Deputy Minister wrote to all fire and rescue service staff urging them to lend support to the NHS where possible, and the response has been overwhelming. Over 450 staff have volunteered to drive ambulances and are available for deployment as necessary. Others have assisted in setting up temporary mortuaries and delivering vital supplies. We have also set up five of the service's mass decontamination units at hospitals across Wales, where they serve as temporary triage facilities for suspected COVID-19 patients. 

It is, though, very disappointing to see widespread outbreaks of deliberately set grass fires. Even in a normal year this is highly irresponsible. It devastates the environment and puts communities in genuine fear. This year it is doubly so. Our firefighters and police officers have far better things to do during the outbreak than responding to grass fires. The smoke such fires causes is also a serious health hazard for many of those in the shielded group and for COVID-19 sufferers themselves. I'm sure all Members would join me in strongly condemning this senseless behaviour.

And finally, the cross-Government group on vulnerable people has been focusing on practical support for those extremely vulnerable people who have been asked to undertake shielding for 12 weeks. This includes food and medical supplies, transport, emotional and social support such as advice lines, telephone befriending and technology. Data on those who have been advised to shield has now been shared with all supermarkets in Wales, and a pilot scheme to provide additional capacity for the delivery of medicines from community pharmacies was launched last week.

The steps that we are taking to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic will save lives. However, sadly, as has already been said, people will lose loved ones as a result of this disease. The death of a family member or friend is a very distressing event, and we have amended our regulations to clarify the arrangements for funerals at crematoriums. These are very difficult times, requiring rapid and flexible responses from everyone in Government and in our public services. Welsh Government will continue to provide leadership and support as we deal with this crisis, and thank all our partners for working with us. I'm very clear that when normality begins to return, these collaborations will provide clear lessons and a deal of good practice that we can and should adopt, going forward. Diolch.  

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Can I thank the Minister for her statement and also for the very open approach she's taken to scrutiny and arranging meetings with spokespeople, which I found very valuable? I think the Government is to be congratulated for moving quickly on the rough-sleeper issue, and there's no doubt that a lot of resources and technical expertise, I think, from the Welsh Government has gone in to help those local authorities. I wonder if any of them are still struggling a bit with the challenge and the sustainability of their approaches, and can you just tell us how you are supporting those that are perhaps finding it a bit more difficult than others? 

And whilst single figures in Cardiff, Swansea, Newport is a genuine achievement, obviously we've got 22 local authorities, and if there were five rough-sleepers in each, we'd have about 100 rough-sleepers still, compared to the annual estimate of 340 to 350 that we had. So, do you have any idea of what the global figure is? I think that would be helpful. And, as we move on, how confident are you that we have the next phase, because much of this is enhanced emergency accommodation?

I know much more fundamental approaches have been taken around support, but a lot of these people are not in the accommodation they will need to be in the time ahead, in the months and years to come. So, what are we doing to ensure that this cohort of rough-sleepers who have now been brought into accommodation do not slip back onto the streets? And do we have any idea of people who are presenting as homeless at the moment because of the difficulties that COVID is presenting? Many people in fairly fragile accommodation are finding that friends don't want to accommodate them and sofa surfing is more difficult, and, therefore, it slips into the more extreme form of homelessness and rough-sleeping.

And—

I will need to ask you to draw your first question to an end.

That's my first question. Thank you, Llywydd. 

Minister.

Thank you, David. Yes, it has been a serious challenge to get people in off the streets, and I really do have an enormous amount of respect for the numbers of people working across Wales to get that to happen so quickly. There is still an ongoing challenge, and we know that most local authorities are working at close to, or at capacity in all areas. I don't have a global figure as such, but I can tell you that it's nil in most authorities, and in low single figures in the main cities. It changes on a daily basis as people present, so it's very difficult to pinpoint a point in time and say, 'There are seven' or whatever, but it's very low. But, obviously, we have had to accommodate a large number of people who would have otherwise been hidden homeless. You'll remember we were running a campaign before this happened to get people to identify as homeless if they were sofa surfing or sleeping in spare rooms, and so on, and, of course, people have been reluctant to keep those arrangements going, and so we've had a lot more people to get into accommodation. That has been done, and I'm grateful to all of our partners across Wales who've worked so very hard to do that. 

We also have an increased problem where the Home Office has been using limited accommodation capacity to house asylum seekers, and that's placing a strain on the system, and we've had to work very hard to make sure that we're talking to each other properly to ensure that we're not both trying to secure the same accommodation at the same time in some areas, and we have had those conversations. But there's no doubt that puts an increased strain on the system. 

And then, the last thing we're dealing with at the moment is the need to accommodate prisoners who are being released. So, we have the normal prison releases. Just to be clear, those are still ongoing; if you've come to the end of your time, you've served your time, you get released regardless. No prisoners who are up for early release would have the virus, but we do have occasions where a prisoner who's just up for release in the normal course of that might be showing symptoms. There is a pathway now in place to ensure that those prisoners are properly accommodated, properly transported, with all of the safety for both the released prisoner and the staff dealing with them, and the accommodation that they're returning to, in place. I'm very grateful to the partners who've worked with us so very hard to get those things catered for in the system as well. 

And, secondly, I'd like to know what advice and assistance is being given to allow builders, especially SMEs, to operate with appropriate social distancing, so that vital repairs and maintenance in particular can be undertaken? This is very important to sustain people at home, and much vital building has obviously been put on hold.

And what measures are in place to ensure fire safety in high-rise buildings now that people are staying at home nearly all day, and, therefore, just because of the number of hours they are there, are at more risk? The Minister will know that the more tests that are being done on cladding materials, the more problems that seem to be arising. So, what are we doing to ensure the health and well-being of those residents of tower blocks and the like?

Thank you, David, for those. We've kept the construction industry going for essential work, and we've kept the care and repair system going, for example. They're receiving around 270 rapid adaptation referrals a week at the moment—urgent jobs to support hospital discharges, or crucial prevention to prevent somebody being admitted where there's no need. I mentioned the adaptation of the Nightingale hospitals, which has obviously been kept going. Actually, it's not the construction bit of that that's been a problem; it's keeping the builders' merchants open so that people can maintain adequate supplies, and we've had conversations with builders' merchants around how that works. 

You'll know that going shopping in your local builders' merchant isn't one of the main reasons that you should leave home at the moment. But, obviously, if you're going there as part of a trade, doing essential work—construction work and repairs—then it has been very helpful to us that they've stayed open. When we start to look at the—well, it's a new term for the word 'easement', which pains me as a lawyer—easement of the restrictions, we will be looking to see if we can get more construction up and running as fast as possible.

As to support to the SME system, because the housing market is, not surprisingly, not terribly buoyant at the moment, we will be looking to see if we can introduce regulations to relax the DQR—the social housing standard rules—in order to be able to buy off-plan from SME builders, so that we can increase the supply that way. This has been done before; it was done after the 2008 crisis. Actually, the building standards in Wales are much higher now, so the relaxation isn't as great, but we are looking to support the sector in that way. And, of course, it has the added benefit of getting more people out of temporary accommodation that may be unsuitable. So, we're doing a number of things to support SME builders and to keep the essential repairs going.

And the last thing is that we're encouraging all registered social landlords and councils across Wales to work on their voids, to make sure that they are going as fast as possible to get all available social housing back into use as soon as humanly possible, so that we can move people on from what might be otherwise temporary accommodation into that permanent, secure accommodation. And I'm certainly determined that people are not going to go back out of that onto the street.

I also thank you, Minister, for how constructive you're being and welcoming of scrutiny in this crisis. I'd like to associate myself with what David Melding said about homelessness. I think this crisis is showing that many of the daily injustices that we are so used to aren't inevitable. So, on the point that you just made at the end of answering David Melding, could you confirm that the Welsh Government will be able to commit to doing all it can to make sure that anyone who's been given accommodation to be saved from homelessness during this crisis won't be going back to living on the streets at the end of the crisis?

And the other issue I'd like to raise in relation to housing is support for tenants. From the beginning of the lockdown, mortgages were frozen but rents were not. So, could you tell us what support you're putting in place to help tenants who are really struggling with rent arrears?

And finally on housing, we know that there are groups of people for whom staying at home will increase risk instead of diminishing it. Looking particularly at children who are at risk of abuse, and women and men who are at risk of domestic violence, what work can be done by local authorities, working with the police, with the third sector, to ensure that people can access support and refuge at a time when reporting some of this on the phone could well be overheard by the perpetrator?

Certainly. So, on the rough-sleeping point, you just heard me saying we're very determined that we will not have people returning to the streets. It may be that there are one or two that we won't be able to prevent, and obviously we're not in a position of preventing people from doing that, but we're working very hard to make sure that everybody has the wraparound services that they need to be able to sustain their accommodation and that we can move them rapidly into suitable accommodation. But there's no doubt there will be a draw for some people with serious substance misuse problems, and so on, back to the streets if we can't do that, but we're very determined to do it.

I am very concerned about the group of people who have no recourse to public funds. We've been lobbying the UK Government extensively that those people should not be released back onto the street as soon as the public health emergency is over. And we continue to lobby on that basis. I would appreciate anyone, any Member, who wants to help us with that doing so as well. I do think it's very important that that doesn't happen.

In terms of tenancy support, you can't be evicted at the moment because there's a practice direction in place with the courts, so no eviction proceedings are proceeding at this point in time. So, you're protected at the moment. We are giving serious thought to extending the three-months provision in the emergency regulations to six, and I'm hoping to be able to do that shortly. We are lobbying the UK Government about what will happen if the lockdown continues past the end of May, because you are absolutely right that it's a holiday; it's not a removal of the need to pay your rent. And once people have got more than two months in arrears, we know that they will really struggle to catch back up again. In the social sector in Wales, we've been working hard with our councils and RSLs to make sure we have pre-action protocols in place that force the RSLs and councils—although the word 'force' is not necessary, as they want to do this as well, but they will have to do it—to enter into negotiations with the tenant around repayments and write-off where that's necessary in certain circumstances. Unfortunately, we don't have that power in the private rented sector. We are encouraging all our landlords, with whom we have reasonable working relationships, and their representative bodies, with whom we have reasonable working relationships—all of them; there is no problem with any of them—to enter into that pre-action protocol as well so that we can make sure that that mediation has happened. And we will be lobbying the Ministry of Justice to see if we can make it a practice direction that such a pre-action protocol would have to have been entered into before you could start eviction proceedings for rent arrears. So, we're working on that as well.

The last point you were making was fleeing domestic violence and increased risk of abuse, and I think David Melding, to be fair, raised that as well, and I didn't cover it. That's why we're having people presenting on the streets now daily—that's why the figure is moving. We are trying to publicise the dial 999 and then push 55, which will indicate immediately that you're not in a position to speak and will get help out to you. So, if we can get that information out as far as possible, that's good.

Jane Hutt, my colleague, will be running again the Don't be a Bystander campaign to make sure that people recognise it in their neighbours and don't stand by, and report it themselves. And we also welcome any ideas from any Member or any member of the public that would help us identify other ways of getting to people who are at risk so that we can get the assistance they need to them.

Thank you for that, Minister. Turning to local government, local authorities have reported that it's difficult for them to plan how they're going to be distributing PPE because they don't know in advance how much they're going to be getting, so could you tell us when the Welsh Government will be in a position to tell them in advance how much stock they'll be able to distribute to care homes and so on?

And, on a related point, local authorities are reporting substantial losses of income as a result of this unprecedented crisis. Could you—and I know that you did refer to this in your statement—assure those leaders that they'll receive any money relating to COVID-19 that they would need to provide essential services? And are you in a position to be able to say that you would cover all COVID-19 costs? And what would you say to council leaders who have said that they have had to take out loans to deal with the crisis?

Finally, Minister, turning to recovery, local authorities are, of course, the bodies that are responsible for social care, as well as town centres and regeneration, so they're obviously going to have an important part to play in recovery. What discussions is Welsh Government having with local authorities about that? I completely appreciate that you are dealing with the crisis at the moment, but what thought is being put into that at the moment, particularly in terms of contact tracing and the role that local authorities will have in dealing with that? Thank you.

Sure. On the PPE, we've been working very hard with our local authority colleagues to make sure that we're aware of where the stock is across Wales. And you'll know that we've had military logistics people working on that with us. They've been excellent in working out for us where the stock is and how to get it out to the people who need it, and to give some certainty in that, so, looking back through the records of what is being used so that we can predict demand more effectively, and then knowing where the stock is so that we can get it out to the right people at the same time, and so on. We're very keen that local authorities should have that certainty and, as far as we can provide it, we will, and we're very pleased to have had a recent delivery that you'll all be aware of, but obviously we're in the global supply chain as well. So, we are certainly in the business of making sure that local authorities know what we know and know where the supply is in the chain.

In terms of loss of income for care homes, where a local authority would normally commission services from a care home and that care home can't fill its places at the moment due to the outbreak and so on, then we're very happy for the £40 million that I mentioned in my statement to be used to help fund that care home to keep it viable. The rule of thumb for us has been that local authorities should seek to keep those businesses that they rely on for the service in place so that they're still there at the end of the outbreak. That won't cover every single care home in the independent sector. If you are completely privately funded and you weren't taking local authority referral people into your care home, then you won't be able to access this. Those care homes should be accessing the business support grant system and getting support through loss of income and through the normal business support. But from the point of view of the local authority, they should be using the money to make sure that the service provision remains in place and working with the homes to understand what that looks like. Obviously, we don't want to be shelling money out for no reason, so, it's about understanding what the cash flow looks like and how fast they can start commissioning places there. So, we're expecting that to be happening right across Wales.

In terms of local authorities taking out loans, they should not have had to do that so far. Who knows what will happen at the other end of the year. We are very reliant on the UK Government having to continue the funding to us to make this happen. But, as I said in my statement, we have given out tranches of the RSG much more quickly than we would otherwise have done, so no authority should be, at this point in time, having that kind of problem. And I have a meeting tomorrow with the finance sub-group of the partnership council to go through the work that all local authorities have been doing to numerate their loss of income, fees and charges, so that we can have a look at what we're doing there.

I am urging local authorities that are not yet hit by the peak of the virus not to panic. We are saying, 'Just carry on as normal, do what you need to do and we will be supporting you'. It isn't a first-come, first-served situation. So, nobody should feel obliged to try and put claims in now that they don't really need in order to secure the funding. We're very keen that this is done on an 'as you need it' basis and that we will get the right support out to those authorities that are having that expenditure. 

And on the recovery, I just started the conversation with the leaders last week about the first few things that we think that they might want to start reopening. And I will be continuing that conversation with the WLGA and the partnership council so that we have local authority input into what services local authorities provide, for example, household waste recycling centres and libraries are the ones that everybody mentions—what we would need to put in place by way of guidance or social distancing guidance or staffing in order to allow those kinds of things to happen. So, that conversation has started. 

[Inaudible.]—statement, Minister. I would like to thank the thousands of local government employees who have continued to provide vital services during this lockdown. It's been a massive challenge and our local authorities have risen to it, but there are areas where more needs to be done. We have seen massive rises in fly-tipping; what can local authorities do to ensure that waste facilities reopen as soon as possible? 

And, while I welcome the efforts to get our rough sleepers off the streets and into accommodation where they can take measures to reduce the risk from COVID-19, I am disappointed that it has taken a global pandemic to find accommodation for our homeless. Minister, what happens, as you've already said, when lockdown measures are lifted and tourism resumes? Where will our homeless people go? Has the Welsh Government made any progress in securing suitable long-term accommodation for Wales's homeless population? Some hotels have gone into administration as a result of lockdown. Will the Welsh Government be encouraging local authorities to purchase such properties to use as temporary accommodation moving forward, as well as providing the wraparound support, particularly with those with co-occurring issues?

So, under Government plans, local government officers, particularly those working in environmental health, will play a huge role in taking us out of lockdown. Minister, what assurances can you give the public that health protection measures won't take a back seat as we move into the next phase of the fight against coronavirus? 

Finally, Minister, local authorities are leading the efforts to protect our most vulnerable, who are the shielded. How are the Welsh Government and local authorities ensuring that all the needs of this group will be met during the coming months, including such things as household maintenance and safety checks?

And I thank you for your efforts to mitigate the impacts of this terrible disease and for your assurance on how you are dealing with domestic abuse, which, again, is a huge issue. I thank you for your efforts. Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. 

Thank you for those questions, Caroline. In terms of fly-tipping, obviously, it remains an offence to do that and the police are very keen to prosecute and local authorities are looking to prosecute anybody who does that. Actually, although we obviously have had some instances of that it's not excessive across Wales. People have been pretty responsible, really. We would very much like to open our household waste recycling centres when it's safe to do so, but there are big staffing issues with that. There are big issues about how many people you could leave in at one time; how far they would travel to do it—all kinds of issues, as I'm sure you can imagine. But we are working hard with the local authorities to get a sensible way to take that forward once it’s safe to do so—safe for the staff as well as for the people arriving at the household waste recycling centres.

In terms of the end to rough sleepers, as you've heard me say, we're very determined that nobody will go back onto the streets. Many of the accommodations that we've found will be okay in the longer term, for various reasons, each authority is different; some of them are indeed temporary, but we are working very hard to make sure that they're able to be continued. The answer to the question, 'Why haven’t we been able to do this before?' is very simple: we haven't had the money to do it before. I cannot emphasise enough that we have always known that it's possible to end homelessness if we had enough money to make it happen. What's happened is that the Government's released the funds in order to allow us to do that, and I'm very determined that we can build on that now that it's happened and make sure that we don't go back.

In terms of shielded people, local authorities have moved incredibly quickly, and I'm really grateful to all of the staff that have really tried hard on this, so we have got the food parcels going out. But you're quite right: it's not just about food. So, we have got volunteers contacting shielded people to make sure that they can get their prescriptions filled. And as I said in my statement, we have people doing telephone support for conversation, loneliness, all other needs, including repairs. So, where Care and Repair are called, that’s often because somebody in the shielded group has contacted through their local authority. So, those things are all still happening; I quoted Care and Repair figures during my statement to show that that's still happening. And we're very pleased with the local authorities' ability and their staff's resilience and flexibility in making those things happen. People from right across local authority professions have been retrained onto their contact centres and onto organising volunteers to do this, and I'm very grateful indeed that they have shown the resilience and the courage to do so.

We started today by talking about local government, and I would just like to place on record my very heartfelt thanks to Torfaen council—both councillors and officers—because they have been absolutely outstanding during this pandemic and I really do take my hat off to them.

I had wanted to raise the issue of recovery that Delyth Jewell referred to, specifically in relation to the role that has been set out for local government with contact tracing et cetera. I would just like to take this opportunity to ask you for a very firm assurance that you will be involving local government in all those discussions at the very earliest possible stage now. I'm acutely conscious of the pressure that they've been under, and I think it’s vital that whatever is developed is co-produced with them. So, I would just like to take this opportunity to ask you for that assurance again. Thank you.

Yes, and I'm very happy to give it, Lynne. We're very keen to make sure that, when we put the recovery provisions in place they are operationally doable and feasible, and that local authorities will be able to cope with that in terms of capacity, and what we're asking is both practical and realistic, because otherwise it doesn’t work.

I have a very regular telephone conversation with all 22 leaders in which we discuss all of these issues arising, and I've been making absolutely certain that the WLGA and its officers are involved in co-producing anything that happens. We have had the occasional blip where we've been wrong-footed by something happening, because this is a very fast-moving environment, but we've always been able to correct that and make sure that local authorities are in the loop, and that what we're designing is both practical and deliverable. So, I couldn’t agree more, and I absolutely do give you that assurance that they are now, and will be in the future, completely involved in designing anything that we come up with.

Your colleague, the finance Minister, has confirmed to me that the additional £95 million that Welsh Government is receiving following the UK Government's announcement of extra funding for local government in England will go into the Welsh Government's central fund. Given the comments you've made, how will you address the impacts of COVID-19 on local authority finances after the survey that the Welsh Local Government Association asked local authorities to complete by the end of this month reveals what the situation might be in terms of lost income, currently estimated at £33.2 million per month, although there's some potential for mitigating cost savings; immediate additional revenue cost of responding to the emergency, although I acknowledge that you've sent a claim form out to local authorities so that they can claim these back; longer term additional revenue costs and additional capital costs, where each local authority, as I'm sure you'll acknowledge, will be in a different position in terms of their own financial resilience and reserves, with some more exposed than others?

So, we're obviously very grateful to have had the consequential off the UK Government. We've already given out £110 million to local authorities, and we were well ahead of the consequential arriving, but, yes, we're working very hard, as I said in response to earlier questions—. We're working very hard with local authorities to understand the actuals on the ground. This isn't about a formula or trying to work out a one-size-fits-all. This is about trying to work out with each authority what their actual issues are and to try and cover them off.

As you rightly said, Mark, we're doing a piece of work with the WLGA and local authorities at the moment to understand what their lost income looks like. That's lost fees and charges income and so on. That's income other than council tax and non-domestic rates. We're doing a different piece of work to understand what the effect of lost council tax, the increased claiming of council tax relief and the loss of NDR looks like for them, so there are other bits of work going on for that. I have a meeting of the finance sub-group of the partnership council tomorrow in which we will have a look at the first situation of that and run through what we're doing, and we're very keen to work with them.

I would like to make it clear, though, that depending on how long this goes on for, so if the lockdown continues another two months—it's hypothetical, I hasten to say; I'm not saying that will happen, but if it happened—then, clearly, at the other end of the year, we would have a problem. So, I don't have infinite resources, the UK Government would also have that problem, and we will have to work very closely with them to see what would happen the other end. So, what we've done is frontloaded it, told people to do the right thing, 'Don't worry about it right now. We'll cover you off and then we'll work together as we understand what this looks like to understand what the longer term impact will be.' And you're quite right, local authorities will have different positions and we're very much reacting to it in that way. So, it's not a one-size-fits-all; we're not using the formula approach. We're working with each individual authority.

Minister, some prisoners from HMP Berwyn and other prisons in Wales, of course, are being released early due to COVID-19. Now, that isn't a devolved matter, unfortunately, but the impact on local authorities of having early releases presenting as homeless is a devolved issue, of course, and I know you've touched on that briefly in your statement and in a couple of subsequent answers.

We also know, of course, the statistics from the Ministry of Justice show that prisoners in Wales or in Welsh jails make up 25 per cent of all confirmed cases in Wales and England, which is a hugely worrying statistic, particularly when prisoners in Wales make up just 6 per cent of the estate. So, can I ask what dealings has the Welsh Government had with the UK Government regarding this worrying level of infection within Welsh prisons? And, of course, whilst there are plans afoot in north Wales in relation to Berwyn to deal with this extra pressure on council homelessness services, I would like an assurance from you that all prisoners that are being released are being tested for COVID-19 and, of course, are able to isolate if they're found to be positive. 

Thank you, Llyr. So, as I've said very briefly already, we've got a pathway in place now for every prisoner being released. So, we have different categories of prisoner being released, but they all have a pathway. Where somebody is up for early release—and so far, we've had very low numbers of those, but we are expecting that to increase as time goes on—if they're showing any symptoms of the virus, then they are not released. They are simply no longer considered for early release. Where somebody is coming to the end of their served sentence, then, obviously, they have to be released regardless, and then a system is in place to make sure that we understand what managing their symptoms looks like, that they're going somewhere that can allow them to self-isolate, if that's what's appropriate, or get the right treatment and so on. So, we have that pathway in place.

We've been working very hard with the prison and probation service to get that pathway in place. I'm aware of one blip that happened earlier on, but we've sorted that out, I'm assured now. I myself brought this up in the sub-COBRA group that I attend on a near-daily basis, which is the central public services ministerial information group, as it's snappily entitled, and I brought that up directly with the Minister and he took that on board, to be fair, and they have been working very closely with us. So, I'm happy for the moment that it's in place, but we are maintaining vigilance so that we get the right information at the right time so that we can put those things in place.

The last thing to say on that is: you're right, it does go to local authorities to sort out, but we are working on a regional hub basis as well, so if there is a massive increase in the number of prisoners released as a result of the need to get people into single cells and so on, we will be ready to be able to cope with that, but that's not the situation at the moment. That's just forward planning in case.

I want to first of all put my thanks to all those people who've worked and led at local government to help people within their localities.

I want to move on, actually, to people who are tenants in the private rented sector. I do want to welcome the action that Welsh Government has taken to ensure that tenants at this point don't face financial hardship, and they're not evicted. But I think we need to recognise the value now especially of Rent Smart Wales, which has raised standards and embedded good practice in the private rented sector over the last four years, and it's vital, of course, that we don't now slip backwards and lose good landlords. So, I'd like you, if you can, to clarify the position of private landlords and their status as self-employed businesses and whether they qualify for Government financial support or any other support for those who need it, because it's fairly obvious that private landlords who have actually paid off their mortgage won't get a mortgage holiday, and they can't have any benefit from that, but nonetheless, they are reliant on the income from their tenants to survive. So, I'm concerned that if we see a crunch in the private rented sector, ultimately, that will be a crisis within those communities, specifically in rural areas, going forward.

Thank you for that, Joyce, and you're absolutely right: we have worked very hard with Rent Smart Wales, and, actually, as I frequently say, the vast majority of our landlords are good landlords and we're very glad to have them working with us in the sector, and to be fair, as I said earlier, in response to I think it was Delyth, we work very well with them and with the representative bodies as well, and they've been very helpful to us.

We are looking at ways—we've just issued some guidance that affects landlords, agent representative bodies, and tenancy management services to try and assist them to find the right support, and we are working with the sector to make sure it's there. They are reliant on the business support that's out there, and many of them will not meet the thresholds for some of that, so they don't pay VAT, for example, and so on. So, we are working with the sector to understand what the risk is to the sector and to see what we can put in place to ensure that anybody at risk of financial hardship is supported in some way.

Most of the work we have been doing is for tenants, because they're more badly impacted, but you're quite right to highlight that some landlords are reliant on their rent, and if their tenant is unable to pay it, they are themselves in serious difficulty. We are working hard to see what we can put in place to protect the sector, because as you've heard me say in numerous previous appearances in Plenary, we value our private rented sector and we very much want to work with them to make it a sector of choice for the tenants in Wales.

Thank you very much. As local authorities plan their services, they will need data, and they rely on Government to share with them that data in as timely a manner as possible in terms of the latest modelling and what that's revealing. Here in Anglesey, the local authority feels that the work of surge planning, looking forward over the next few weeks—the work that they have to do is being held back by some slowness in sharing the latest modelling work done by Government. So, can I ask the Minister for an assurance that every local authority has the information that they need in terms of pandemic modelling, and that updates will be shared with local authorities like Ynys Môn as soon as possible, and in as timely a manner as possible, so that they can plan as effectively as possible for the future?

I'm surprised to hear that, Rhun, and sorry to hear it, because as I say, I meet with the leaders on a very regular basis and other Ministers, including the Minister for Health and Social Services and the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, join that call on a very regular basis. I can't recollect that that's been raised with me. I can't say that I can recollect every single thing that they raise with me because they are often very many and varied. But I don't recollect that; I'll certainly check back, but I'm very happy to give that assurance. We are very keen to work in partnership, in harmony with the local authorities. They clearly need to be able to plan properly for what is coming down the line, and we work very hard to make sure that the data gets out to them. It hasn't always been perfect because this has been a rapidly moving situation. We've all got so used to this new normal, we've forgotten how fast we've put these processes in place, and they're not yet perfect. But I will certainly take that back and have a look at it. It's not the intention. The intention is to make sure that local authorities are in their best possible position to put the plans in place that they need to deliver the services we rely on them for.

[Inaudible.]—for administering the small business rate relief grant of £10,000, which was supposed to go to all businesses that pay business rates. I have had many complaints from people around furnished holiday letting businesses in Dwyfor Meironnydd that Gwynedd county council is withholding payments because Welsh Government has set new criteria that apply no other form of business which these businesses have to satisfy in order to get the grant. I understand that the problem is to stop people using what are really second homes, and not businesses, and calling them their furnished holiday letting businesses and therefore qualifying for the grant, but it seems to me that the Welsh Government here is looking at the wrong target. The definition of a business for tax purposes is a very comprehensive one provided by Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, and if somebody is actually using a second home as a second home and only in a very small minority of the time for letting purposes, then they shouldn't be paying business rates at all. So, county councils should really be administering the business rates scheme properly rather than depriving true businesses of what they're entitled to under this nationwide scheme. So, I wonder if the Minister would look again at the criteria here and see if they can be tweaked in some way. For example, why should a small business in this sector alone have to be more than 50 per cent of the owner's income?

Thank you for that. We have actually just tweaked the system as a result of being asked to do so by a large number of local authorities towards the north and west of the country who have a very—Gwynedd, in particular, has a very large number of these. We looked again at the criteria that we were setting out, and we've shifted the criteria so that you now have to have rented your home out for a 140 days, not 70 as it was previously, and that it has to be a substantial part of your income—probably 50 per cent as a rule of thumb. However, it is a discretion for the local authorities. So, if a legitimate business has, for whatever reason, not been able to satisfy the criteria, the local authority still has discretion to pay the grant out. What we've done is changed the presumption the other way around. So, originally the presumption was that everybody would get it unless you could prove they weren't a legitimate business; we've simply shifted it so that now they don't get it unless they can prove they are. If they can prove they are, then the authority has the ability to use its discretion to pay out the grant. I've responded to local authorities' request to do that, and I'm very happy that we did that. I have, myself—. I'm aware of one or two people who are complaining about it, but, you know, the discretion exists for the local authority, and we've directed them to the local authority to ask them to exercise it in that way.

Minister, I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear I've had lots of positive feedback from Cynon Valley businesses about the speed and efficiency of Rhondda Cynon Taf's application of the rate relief element of the Welsh Government business support. But having said that, I am concerned that some businesses are being—[Inaudible.]—access that support. What dialogue has taken place with partners in local government about the application of their powers to apply hardship or discretionary rate relief more generally? And, secondly, although the coronavirus crisis has led to the suspension of normal life in very many ways, my constituency postbag continues to contain a significant element of casework from tenants of registered social landlords, just as it always did before the pandemic. I note your earlier comments about care and repair, but aside from that, and with many RSLs either furloughing staff or seconding them to local authority hubs, what work is being done to ensure that RSLs still have the ability and the capacity to meet their tenants' essential needs?

Thank you, Vikki. So, going in reverse order, we do expect RSLs to continue to meet all of their tenants' needs. We've been very clear that it would be very exceptional that an RSL should be furloughing staff, for example, and have been very clear with that, and, to be fair, Community Housing Cymru have been very clear about that as well. So, RSLs should be still carrying on all of the repairs and so on that they do. The only exceptions to that would be where it isn't safe to do so—so, where there's somebody in the house that they're trying to repair that is self-isolating or whatever and that makes it impossible. But, other than in those kinds of exceptions, they should be carrying on with essential maintenance and repairs. And, as I said, we're also encouraging them to bring voids back into use as fast as possible, so that we can get people out of unsuitable accommodation. If you want to highlight any of those cases to me so that I can take them up with particular RSLs, I'm very happy to do that. 

In terms of the hardship funds and the discretionary rate relief funds, I haven't had it highlighted to me that there's a particular issue, so, again, if you want to highlight any particular issues, I'm very happy to take that up with the particular local authority and see if we can assist them in the way that they're exercising their discretion. And, if it's something that's not currently covered, then—. Obviously, we've put all of these things in place very quickly; I'm very pleased with the local authorities and very grateful to their staff for the hard work that they've done, but it is already the new normal, and it's always important to remember how swiftly we have actually gone from where we were only a few weeks ago to here. So, it's not perfect and I'm very happy to look at any examples from across Members to see how we can refine it and make it better as we go forward.

Thank you, Minister.

In accordance with Standing Orders 12.24 and 12.40, unless a Member objects, the motions for the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Wales) Regulations 2020 and the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2020 will be grouped for debate and for voting. I see that there are no objections.