The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, amendment 2 in the name of Siân Gwenllian, and amendment 3 in the name of Caroline Jones. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected.

We now move to item 10 on the agenda, which is the Welsh Conservatives debate—COVID-19 and transport—and I call on Darren Millar to move the motion. Darren.

Motion NDM7345 Darren Millar

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Welcomes the recent relaxation of coronavirus restrictions on travel.

2. Acknowledges the adverse impact of the previous travel restrictions on personal relationships, people’s mental health and wellbeing, and retailers.

3. Regrets the failure of the Welsh Government to provide adequate support for Welsh bus operators during the coronavirus pandemic.

4. Expresses disappointment that the Welsh Government has discouraged airlines from flying from Cardiff Airport.

5. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) rule out the introduction of quarantine requirements for residents travelling to Wales from within the Common Travel Area;

b) urgently review and increase the support available to bus operators in Wales to enable them to increase the frequency and capacity of bus services for the people of Wales;

c) promote the establishment of new routes from Cardiff Airport to safe destinations around the globe to help it bounce back from the coronavirus pandemic.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move the motion on the order paper.

The people of Wales have endured the most severe restrictions on their movements that any of us will have known in our lifetimes in recent months—restrictions that have been more draconian and longer lasting than anywhere else in the United Kingdom. People have been cut off from their friends and family. Mother's Day, Father's Day, Easter, birthdays, anniversaries, weddings and all sorts of other events that would usually bring families together have been rather muted occasions. And, of course, the lockdown was introduced with good reason: by staying at home, we help to protect many of the most vulnerable in our society, and we've reduced the spread of the coronavirus. But the enduring 5-mile rule was cruel. I recognise that the Welsh Government's intention was to deter long journeys and avoid Welsh beaches or other destinations being overwhelmed, but a 5-mile rule was arbitrary. It kept families apart, and, beyond urban areas, frankly, the rule was a mockery. It adversely affected people's relationships. It exacerbated the problems of loneliness and isolation, contributed to poor mental health and well-being, and made many businesses in Wales less viable.

Prior to the pandemic, Wales, of course, already had the UK's weakest economy and the highest high street vacancy rate, so keeping Wales locked down for longer isn't going to help us to address these facts. To ensure public compliance, of course, with Government guidelines, it's important that Ministers need to ensure that their instructions to the public are fair, realistic and backed up by evidence. To do anything other than that, of course, risks public alienation yet, to date, the Welsh Government has not published a shred of scientific evidence for its cruel 5-mile rule. And that's why we very much welcome the relaxation of the travel restrictions from Monday.

Many of those who want to enjoy getting their freedom back will, of course, opt to jump on a bus. Bus travel, of course, is essential for many of our citizens, but it's a lifeline that is increasingly at risk here in Wales. Bus travel had already fallen by nearly a quarter over the past 13 years as a result of funding cuts, collapsed franchises and route reductions, and, during the pandemic, it's fallen by a further 90 per cent, some of which was directly as a result of people not being able to travel beyond the cruel 5-mile rule.

The 2m social distancing law also means that buses can now only carry a fraction of their previous passengers. In some instances, a bus with a maximum capacity of 64 can now accommodate fewer than just 10 passengers. So, the Welsh Government needs to prevent further cuts to bus services by increasing the support available to operators in order to protect these important lifelines.

The Confederation of Passenger Transport has suggested that £5.7 million a month could restore services in Wales to pre-lockdown capacity. Now, I'm very pleased that the tabling of our motion last week resulted in the Welsh Government announcing the establishment of a bus emergency fund in Wales, but I'm afraid there was scant detail in the written statement that accompanied the announcement as to how this new fund will work, so perhaps the Minister can share some more information on this in his response to this debate, because the reality is that, if we lose more bus routes during this pandemic, we risk a modal shift—a shift back to the car and from public transport. Because the truth is, once bus routes are axed, they're very rarely reinstated.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we also need the Welsh Government to look again at its position on face coverings. Yet again, Wales appears to be lagging behind on this particular issue. While face coverings are now mandatory for some activities in Scotland and in England, in Wales they're not. With the level of cross-border journeys between England and Wales being so significant, this just doesn't make sense, and that's why we're going to be supporting the Brexit Party amendment, which proposes that face coverings are mandatory on all public transport journeys in Wales in the future.

But it's not just our buses that are reeling from the impact of the pandemic—the aviation industry is, of course, too. Just last week, Airbus announced over 1,400 job losses at its Broughton site in north Wales—a devastating blow for the workers and their families, as well as the wider economy. Cardiff Airport, which, of course, taxpayers have been propping up now since it was nationalised back in 2013, has, understandably, also seen a massive reduction in passenger numbers.

The prospect of a swift recovery for Cardiff Airport and the wider aviation sector won't be helped by the Welsh Government discouraging popular discount airlines like Ryanair from flying from Wales, as they did last week. So, can Ministers today explain what actions the Welsh Government is now going to take in order to help the aviation industry in Wales to be able to bounce back, including plans to promote new routes to and from safe locations where the rate of transmission overseas is low? This is particularly critical, of course, for the Welsh tourist industry, which needs to maximise what's left of this summer season going forward.

The industry, of course, is worth billions to the Welsh economy—it employs 8 per cent of the Welsh workforce—yet it's been closed for longer than elsewhere in the UK. Tourism and hospitality businesses, of course, were able to open on Saturday in England, but overnight accommodation remains closed for a further nine days beyond the opening date in England, at a critical time, when many businesses are on a knife edge.

Our single biggest tourism market, of course, which will be a key to the tourism economy's recovery, is England, yet our health Minister took to the airwaves on a national radio station last week to say that he wouldn't rule out introducing a quarantine period for visitors to Wales from other parts of the United Kingdom—I mean, what a ridiculous proposition. Why would anybody come to Wales for a weekend away if they had to quarantine for a fortnight once they arrived? It's an absolutely barmy situation. We've got a porous border with England. How on earth would the Welsh Government be able to stop the daily travel between Wales and Liverpool, Chester, Shrewsbury or Bristol when you've got a situation the way that we have? The last thing that the people of Wales need, frankly, is a slate curtain along our border with England at a time when we need to be boosting trade between our two great nations.

No-one, of course, arriving in Wales from the UK or the wider common travel area should have to quarantine when visiting this part of the United Kingdom, so I do hope that the Welsh Government will rule this out today, and I look for the Minister's doing that in his comments on our debate. I also hope that the Plaid Cymru spokesperson will explain why they seem to support quarantining UK and Irish nationals before entering Wales, because, of course, their amendment proposes removing the statement that we have in our motion in order to amend it. Now, we support the UK Government's work in establishing air bridges, which of course is what the Plaid amendment refers to. We support that work. We want to see air bridges established with other safe destinations overseas. But, of course, air bridges aren't relevant to countries like England where we have actual bridges that connect Wales to England. So, for the sake of those who cross the border regularly and want to visit Wales, we're going to be opposing Plaid Cymru's amendment. We need, I think, to send a very clear message today that, from 11 July, better late than never, Wales is very much open for business and we want to encourage people to visit Wales safely. 

So, in closing these opening remarks, Dirprwy Lywydd, Wales is reopening, albeit slowly. We need to help to get Wales moving by supporting public transport operators, by getting our bus network back on its feet, by supporting our aviation industry, and we also need to protect our tourism industry and the jobs that depend on it by promoting Wales as a destination, not drawing a slate curtain along our border. The UK Government has done its bit, of course, with a reduction in VAT on tourism and hospitality businesses for the future, which I think is an excellent move. We now need to see the Welsh Government pull its socks up and do some support work itself. I urge people to support our motion. Diolch.

Thank you. I have selected the three amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected. I call on the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport to formally move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans.

Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that while transmission of Coronavirus in the community has reduced owing to the measures put in place, the virus has not gone away, which warrants the Welsh Government’s prudent approach to balancing public health risks against economic, social and other risks, including travel.

2. Recognises the significant pressure Coronavirus has put on Welsh Government finances and that without additional flexibilities from the UK Government, increased investment in one area, such as health, business support or transport, means less funding available for other areas.

3. Welcomes the significant package of emergency support put in place by the Welsh Government to rescue bus and rail transport operators in Wales during the pandemic.

4. Recognises the important role Cardiff Airport has played during the crisis, helping bring in vital PPE supplies to Wales.

5. Notes the Welsh Government's work:

a) with other devolved governments to explore a four nation approach to lifting international travel restrictions;

b) with bus operators and local authorities to explore the appropriate increase of services and put the industry and its management on a sustainable footing for the future; and

c) with Cardiff Airport to explore new routes and secure its future as part of an integrated public transport system across Wales, despite ongoing resistance from the UK Government in what is largely a reserved policy area to create a level playing field for regional airports.

Amendment 1 moved.

Formally.

Thank you. I call on Helen Mary Jones to move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian. Helen Mary.

Amendment 2—Siân Gwenllian

Delete point 5(a) and replace with:

'agree to establishing air bridges to other nations when it is safe to do so and to keep travel arrangements under constant review;'

Amendment 2 moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd, and can I begin by thanking the Conservative group for tabling this? It is an important debate and it is right that we should be debating issues relating to transport. And there are elements of their motion with which I cannot disagree. It is a good thing that travel restrictions are being lifted. It's a good thing now that it feels safer that travel restrictions are being lifted. And of course, travel restrictions have been very hard on people, hard on us all. There can be none of us in this Chamber and virtual Chamber who have not been desperately missing somebody or more than one person that we haven't been able to see. They were, though, of course, those restrictions, as Darren Millar has acknowledged, necessary.

And the concerns that the motion raises about support for the bus industry are points well made I think. The Deputy Minister's statement earlier this week, brought forward of course after this motion had been tabled, is welcome. But I have to agree with Darren Millar that the commitment to a bus emergency scheme is welcome, but it is, for the Deputy Minister, uncharacteristically vague. It lacks figures and it lacks timescales, and the industry urgently need those, which I hope the Deputy Minister understands.

Now I'm very happy to explain to Darren Millar why we have proposed to amend his motion in the way that we have, and in doing so, if I may, Dirprwy Lywydd, I'll read out exactly what his current motion says. It asks the Welsh Government to, and I quote:

'rule out the introduction of quarantine requirements for residents travelling to Wales from within the Common Travel Area'.

Now, that doesn't make it clear that what he means is rule it out at present for people travelling from other parts of the UK and other parts of the Republic of Ireland. So, what Darren Millar told us is rather different from what is in the text of his motion, and what is in the text of his motion, Dirprwy Lywydd, is frankly bonkers. Clause 5(a), as it stands, asks the Welsh Government to rule out the introduction of quarantine requirements. It doesn't say for how long and it doesn't say under what circumstances. Seriously? Rule out, forever?

There is a real risk of a second spike—maybe, heaven help us, more than one—of this virus. So, let's imagine, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we have a major outbreak of coronavirus in, let's say, Paris. Should the Welsh Government not, in a year's time, in those circumstances, or in six months' time, in those circumstances, working hopefully with the UK Government, restrict travel to Paris, much as we'd all miss it, and then introduce quarantine to allow essential travel to happen again safely? Surely they should. And that's why, Darren Millar, we've tabled our amendment 2, deleting the clause and replacing it with something more moderate. Nobody wants travel to be restricted unnecessarily. I, for one, am desperate to visit my relatives in Italy, but lifting those restrictions has to be done safely.

I'd like to make a brief comment, if I may, Dirprwy Lywydd, on amendment 3, and we are very happy to support this. We do not understand Welsh Government's reluctance to insist on the wearing of face coverings on public transport and, indeed, in other situations where social distancing is difficult to maintain. Several witnesses to the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee in our recent hearings around transport, including the trade union representatives, strongly advocated the wearing of face coverings.

Now, the First Minister, in responding to a question earlier, said that Welsh Government was concerned that they believe that, if people are wearing face masks, it may encourage them to behave in a manner that is inappropriate. For me, it seems that seeing people wearing face coverings will encourage people to remember that we are not yet in normal times and may very well encourage them to maintain social distancing and to be more careful. I am a little bit surprised that, in this, the Labour Welsh Government is not prepared to listen to their social partnership colleagues in the trade unions—the workers who are most intimately affected and many of whom have sadly become ill and some of them have died because of the high risk of their professions. So, if the Welsh Government really believes that the wearing of face coverings is going make people behave in an inappropriate manner, I very much wish that they would publish the evidence on which that is based. Because I'm not a great fan of common sense normally, but common sense does suggest otherwise, and my own personal experience of being in settings where people are wearing face coverings also suggests otherwise.

Dirprwy Lywydd, to close, we can't support the Government's amendment. It's the usual 'everything is all right' stuff. It isn't. That's not a sufficient response to the points that the Conservatives have raised in their motion. Dirprwy Lywydd, I would like to end by commending our amendment and amendment 3 to the Chamber.

Thank you. Can I call on Caroline Jones to move amendment 3, tabled in her name? 

Amendment 3—Caroline Jones

Add as new sub-point at end of point 5:

'make the wearing of face coverings mandatory on all forms of public transport;'

Amendment 3 moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I formally move the amendment tabled in my name, and thank the Welsh Conservatives for bringing forward this important debate. Wales is one of the few places on earth where the wearing of face masks is not mandated. Just yesterday, the royal society published two reports highlighting the importance of wearing face coverings in public. Face masks can and do stop the spread of this virus. Welsh Government have opposed such a move because they believe that it will give people a sense of invincibility; that they'll suddenly forget everything they've been doing for the past 100 days or so. Yes, the need to maintain social distancing and good hand hygiene is important, and that doesn't go away because you wear a mask, but we have to gain every little advantage we can over this disease.

We cannot stay locked up forever. Our over-protective parent, the Welsh Government, cannot afford to pay for us to stay hidden away until they find a cure. As we return to some semblance of normal life, we need every protection possible. Wearing face masks in public is such a protection. The science is solid. Face coverings can prevent those infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus from spreading it via microdroplets. There is also emerging evidence that the majority of infections occur during the pre-symptomatic phase or from asymptomatic carriers, and because the Welsh Government are only testing those with symptoms—and not doing that too well at the moment—we will, therefore, miss the majority of cases. If we mandate the wearing of face masks on all forms of public transport as an absolute minimum, we can help limit the spread of COVID-19.

Lockdown was effective; it was never meant to eliminate coronavirus. It was put in place to ensure that we didn't become overwhelmed, to give us time to prepare. And, in all fairness, it did work. We bought ourselves time, our NHS wasn't overwhelmed, but as we emerge from lockdown, we have to take the necessary precautions. Evidence emerging from some of the countries hardest hit by this pandemic shows that fewer than one in 10 have antibodies against the virus. COVID-19 is not done with us yet. We can't stay hidden away, so we must take every precaution. And all of us have a duty to protect our friends, our family, our neighbours and our countrymen. Social distancing works, but it is not practical. We can't continue to run public transport at a quarter of its capacity for the next one or two years whilst a vaccine is found, mass produced, and given to 7 billion people.

We are in the middle of a climate emergency, but instead of vastly cutting our emissions, we are increasing them. We have spent decades trying to encourage modal shift, telling people to abandon the car, to take the train or bus, and now we tell them to avoid public transport. And we cannot continue to do that. We have to put measures in place to mitigate the risks. Mandatory face masks is one such measure: no face mask, no journey. It's the only way we can ensure the safety of all passengers. Not everyone can work from home; people need to travel. Let's ensure that we do so as safely as we can, and not to support our amendment does send out mixed messages to the public and compromises public safety. So, there has to be consistency, and that's why I urge Members to support our amendment today. Diolch yn fawr.

I'm pleased to speak in this debate today. I'm going to focus my remarks on the lack of adequate support from the Welsh Government for the bus industry, both historically and during the COVID-19 pandemic. And I'm pleased, as Darren Millar has said, Deputy Presiding Officer, that as soon as this motion was tabled, the Welsh Government published its bus emergency scheme—always good when Welsh Conservatives have influence over Welsh Government policy.

I'll give some context and background to my contribution in terms of the lack of support for the bus industry. Bus passenger journeys in Wales have fallen since devolution while the volume of cars on our roads has increased. Simon Jeffrey of the think tank Centre for Cities has said, and this is a really, really good quote that sums this issue up so well:

'Poor transport puts people in cars, which slows buses down, pushing their cost up, making them less reliable and people move away from using them'.

And that was pretty much the conclusion of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee when we reported on this issue some years ago—the need to break this cycle. The trend, Deputy Presiding Officer, can't continue. If we're going to face up to climate change, which the Welsh Government has itself declared, we need to tackle this issue.

And, of course, cuts to routes disproportionately affect older people, leading to increased loneliness and isolation. And, of course, with younger people, it prevents younger people travelling to and from educational centres. So, it stops them from accessing further education. That's a problem in rural Wales and semi-rural areas of Wales. All this, of course, is completely contrary to the Welsh Government's own strategy, 'Prosperity for All'. So, the Government has really got to move away from the rhetoric and start supporting this particular industry.

Turning to the pandemic, I welcome the £29 million, the industry welcomes the £29 million that the Government announced on 31 March, but let's be clear, that was not new money. Also, that money only lasted three months, and those three months have now passed. So, Wales is the only UK nation that has not provided additional funding for support for the industry. The Welsh Government desperately needs to increase funding and ensure that current bus operators receive the support they need to survive these unprecedented and financial pressures that they are under.

I can't speak in this debate without speaking about bus route 72 in my own constituency, which supports people in Llanfyllin and Llansanffraid to get to Oswestry, to do their shopping and for health appointments. That service was cancelled just a couple of weeks ago. These people that use the service do not have their own transport—an absolutely crucial service. The operator could not continue that service because it wasn't financially viable. So, I am working with Councillors Peter Lewis and Gwynfor Thomas and local community councils to find a solution, but it is incredibly difficult without Government support. The confederation of transport recently told the EIS committee it needs £5.2 million per month to get services to 100 per cent because of social distancing. Otherwise, bus services simply will not be sustainable.

Now, turning to the bus emergency scheme, I broadly welcome the Government's creation of this scheme, but, as Darren Millar has said and Helen Mary Jones has said, there is no financial detail with that scheme. Also, there's no detail about how the money can be and will be distributed. So, I've got a number of questions here for the Deputy Minister: how much funding will be allocated in the short term? Will it be proportional to the size of a business? Beyond this emergency period, what will new funding mechanisms and a partnership approach for the bus industry look like in the long term? What will this announcement mean for the bus Bill? Is this now to be shelved altogether? And is the Welsh Government now able to provide the clarity that the industry needs on the continued multiyear funding support for the bus services to operate while trading is still restricted? The lack of detail for long-term funding attached to the bus emergency scheme is a real concern. So, so many questions, Deputy Presiding Officer, and so far, at least, very few detailed answers from the Government.

As I come to conclude, what I think the Minister needs to do now—and this is to be positive and constructive—with some urgency, is to bring forward a taskforce to rethink, reshape and restart local bus services and how they operate in a post-pandemic Wales, led by the Welsh Government, with input from Transport for Wales, the industry and local authorities. I do hope that the Deputy Minister will consider that suggestion seriously, and I do hope that he'll be able to answer some of the questions that I've put in my contribution. Diolch.

I want to focus my remarks today on bus travel, because for Torfaen, like many deprived communities in Wales, these are the transport links that matter most. Without the right solution for operators, drivers and passengers, we risk falling foul of the worst possible long-term outcome of this pandemic: that existing disadvantage is further entrenched for our communities.

I know there is a live debate happening right now about whether COVID-19 will force people back into their cars, but, for many people in communities like Trevethin in my constituency, where car ownership is way below the Welsh average, there simply isn't a choice to be made. On health or environmental grounds, it is public transport or nothing. It's the same thing on mortality rates, the ability to homeschool, accessing healthcare or transport solutions. COVID-19 is not the great equaliser that some suggested back in March. It does not impact us all the same. In fact, this pandemic has operated like a catalyst for inequality. As Professor Devi Sridhar has said,

'Wealth is the best shielding strategy for this virus, and from experiencing severe impacts.'

As we work our way out of lockdown, boosting safe access to public transport is vital to ensure that public health protection is not just for the privileged. I recognise it won't be easy. Polling tells us the return to public transport is the No. 1 concern for people when it comes to easing of lockdown, with 78 per cent of people saying they're worried. Combine this with 90 per cent fewer bus journeys being taken, and we are in very difficult territory.

The newly announced bus emergency scheme is very welcome, and I was particularly pleased to see that, in order to access the funding, engagement about planning for routes will be mandated. This must ensure that socially vital links are maintained, and not just the most popular journeys. If in-built inequality has been magnified by the pandemic, then we must see recovery as an engine of opportunity for our poorest communities. This debate about equality and opportunity is not confined to passengers; it matters for bus drivers, too. Figures from the Office for National Statistics for England and Wales show significantly raised rates of death involving COVID-19 amongst bus and coach drivers. Members will know that Sadiq Khan has announced a specific inquiry into the issue in London.

So, this brings me on to the second point today, and that is mandatory face coverings on public transport. Everyone in the Senedd will know I have been supportive of the very cautious approach taken in Wales to easing lockdown, and therefore I find it very difficult to justify what seems like this particular anomaly in our approach. In Scotland, when the mandatory wearing of face coverings was announced, it received universal support from operators, trade unions and passenger groups. Their independent watchdog, Transport Focus, said plainly,

'People thinking of returning to public transport have told us they want face coverings to be used by all passengers.'

This is an attitude I believe will be replicated in Wales, where 81 per cent of people surveyed last month said they support the wearing of face coverings in indoor shared spaces. The message seems clear to me: if we want people to return safely to public transport, we must mandate face coverings. The British Medical Association in Wales has said that wearing masks will afford greater protection to the public and, importantly, will protect the lives of the staff working on public transport, who, as evidence suggests, are at greater risk of infection. Information I've been given by Unite the union, which represents drivers across Wales, shows the problems their members are facing on a daily basis because of current guidance. This is particularly acute on cross-border services, with passengers boarding without masks then becoming embroiled in arguments with other passengers on both sides of the border who are wearing masks. Now, the only way to solve those arguments when they occur is for the driver to leave their seat, making them yet more vulnerable to COVID-19.

As one of the reasons for not going down the mandatory route is not wanting to ask transport staff to police these measures, it seems that the current guidance is making them do that anyway, but without the clarity of Welsh law behind them. I've looked at what the chief medical officer has said on this, I've looked at the World Health Organization guidance and I've read the note from the technical advisory group, and I have to say that it seems anything but clear to me why we are pursuing a non-mandatory route. Can I therefore ask the Minister to publish a more detailed account from the TAG? The note produced from that discussion is vague and unhelpful to those of us who want to understand the Government's decision making. Where the Government cites, for example, that the wearing of face coverings may lead to people not pursuing other, more important safety measures, it would benefit this discussion to know exactly where that evidence comes from and what it says in detail. It seems to me that this is a matter of public messaging, and, if the Government gets that right, we can adopt what the trade unions are calling for—a commonsense approach that protects drivers and benefits passengers alike. Thank you.

Clearly, the Welsh public transport landscape has changed dramatically this year in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and, before I go on to make my comments, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank those workers across Wales who have continued working and kept essential travel routes open to key workers across the country. Public transport prior to and certainly during the lockdown has provided a lifeline to key workers, and we all owe them a great deal of gratitude for their commitment and hard work throughout this crisis.

Now, at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, I took the opportunity to question the First Minister on protocols for public transport to ensure that measures were put in place to protect commuter safety and to maintain the highest possible hygiene standards, because it was very clear from the outset that COVID-19 would cause considerable disruption to public transport services across Wales. Therefore, this should have been an area that the Welsh Government prioritised from the start, and it's frustrating to hear from those working in the sector that more information and clarity wasn't provided from the very start. Evidence from stakeholders to the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee last month made it clear that the sector simply needed to know where it was going, and with some clarity pretty quickly. Members, that need for clarity cannot be emphasised enough. For most public transport providers, levels of service have decreased substantially overnight, resulting in some serious workforce planning and a need to overhaul and reassess routes to ensure those who continue to travel for essential purposes could still do so and in the safest possible way.

Moving forward, the transport sector are right to point out that it’s simply unworkable to operate commercial bus services where running vehicle capacities are at a reduced level. Naturally, buses, for example, will simply not be able to accommodate the same number of travellers per vehicle that they did before the pandemic, and so the Welsh Government must start seriously looking at how bus services are going to be sustainable in the future, considering the major issues that they face in terms of adhering to the social distancing guidance.

Now, other Members have acknowledged that buses are a lifeline to so many people across Wales in providing a way for people to reach and access essential services and facilities, and so as more and more people return to the workplace, an emergency public transport strategy is needed to ensure that communities are not left behind as the demand for travel increases. I’m also aware of the impact in my own constituency, where local providers have made it very clear that more support and guidance is needed from the Welsh Government. I’m aware of the work done by the Confederation of Passenger Transport to establish a recovery group with Transport for Wales, local authorities and other stakeholders, and that’s an important vehicle in engaging with the transport sector and responding to their concerns. As I understand it, that group provided information in relation to how much it would cost to accelerate services over a six-month period from June to December for all operators in Wales, as well as providing information in relation to a bus economic stimulus package. Four weeks on from receiving that information, it was made clear to the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee that no formal response was made to the recovery group. That information warranted urgent attention given the serious impact the pandemic has had on providers, and yet the Government was slow in formally responding to the sector. Moving forward, the Welsh Government must redouble its efforts and its communication to the transport industry, and lessons must be learned from this pandemic to better inform policy, going forward.

I’d also like to use my time to focus on the impact of COVID-19 on the road haulage industry, as representations that I’ve received from businesses in my own constituency have made it clear that these businesses missed out on important grant aid and other measures that were initially introduced to support industry. These businesses are still very much needed to support the country’s response to the COVID-19 outbreak, and so the Welsh Government must do more to establish how and where it can best support these businesses. One local provider told me, and I quote, ‘While most of our customers shut up shop and battened down the hatches and furloughed staff, we still need to be operational to deliver essential hospital supplies and food to distribution centres. Our volumes have dropped considerably as some non-essential customers have closed. Current financial support measures are not working. Loans are inaccessible and do not provide the immediate support operators need.’ That’s the reality that some haulage businesses in Wales are facing, and something has got to change.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the COVID-19 pandemic has had an enormous impact on all our lives. It’s a public health emergency, an economic emergency, and it could very well be a transport emergency, too, if we don’t act now and listen to the concerns being raised by those in the sector. I appreciate that there’s no magic wand and that the impact of COVID-19 will continue to be felt for some time to come, but the lack of support and meaningful engagement with the sector has to change. Therefore, in responding to this afternoon’s debate, I hope that the Deputy Minister reflects on the concerns made by the sector and starts considering how Wales’s public transport providers can address some of these issues as restrictions ease and more people rely on their services. Thank you.

I want to turn my attention immediately to bus travel. In thanking the Conservatives for bringing this debate, I want to particularly thank bus drivers first for their efforts in keeping transport going, especially for key workers, through this crisis, the pandemic that we’ve had. It’s actually the bus drivers that have been the key workers all the way through this crisis, and they put themselves at risk in doing so, and they continue to do so. So, I’d certainly agree with the comments that have been made already on ensuring their safety. This is something I've already been engaging with bus companies and the unions on, and I'll continue to do so. I look forward to hearing from the Minister on how they will ensure bus driver safety going forward, recognising the increased risk to drivers, recognising that with any changes to social distancing, to more passengers now seeking to travel, as well, as people return to work—how Welsh Government will engage with bus operators and with the unions on this very critical matter.

And Minister, as a regular public transport user myself, I would add my voice to those, including colleagues in the unions, who think that face covering should just be mandated on public transport, purely as a precautionary approach. I'm sure the argument will go that we haven't seen the definitive evidence that they play a certain role, but as a precautionary approach—what Lynne has already laid out on the higher risk that goes on public transport in a close, contained space such as a bus, but also the higher risk that we know that bus drivers are already exposed to, let alone their passengers. It just passes that commonsense test that unions and passenger bodies are saying would make it absolutely logical.

So, rather than wait for the nth degree of evidence to say, 'Let this go ahead', let's just do it, because, actually, passengers, drivers, everybody else just thinks it makes sense. I would say it would make sense as somebody who regularly travels on buses and trains. I will wear one come what may, so I want other people to do so as well, because I want to protect other people, not myself. So, let's just go ahead and do it.

But can I say in terms of the funding—? My engagement over this crisis period with people like First Cymru, Bridgend County Borough Council and RCT has been outstanding. We've literally sat down in video meetings and because of the hardship funding that's been put in place, we have talked about the routes that are priorities for people to get to work at the right time they needed to, into their hospitals, into their care homes, to those places where key workers were going. It's the first time I've ever sat down in that situation, and it was because the funding was designed to allow that to happen—for local authorities and, occasionally, people like myself to sit down in partnership and to say, 'Where is the data saying that we should be laying these buses on, what times of the day should we be laying them on?'—and we've got on with it.

So, I welcome that; that's allowed us to bring—. Even in the teeth of the crisis, we brought eight or nine services back on route within days, and it's a credit to First Cymru sitting down with us, credit to those drivers who were willing to put them on. And as we go forward with the new bus emergency scheme, I'm glad that that approach is there, moving progressively away from this deregulated system where we throw money at the wall and wonder what's happening, and we actually say, 'Let's plan a way forward on this'. Minister, I know you're convinced of this; this has to be the way forward in the longer term for the bus sector as well, using the skills, keeping the jobs, building on the jobs; building back up, I have to say, not just the number of people who travel but way beyond.

That's what our aspiration should continue to be, so that it's not a failure in life, as somebody once famously said, if you're over a certain age that you travel on a bus—it's a success, because they're clean, they're affordable, they're user friendly, we have synchronised tickets, it links up with the rail travel, and so on. That has always been your aim, Minister, and we need to get back to that and keep our eyes on the prize going forward.

So, this is really, really difficult in how we do this when people at the moment are worried, but the more that we can actually support bus operators, get the routes going at the times that people want them to be, and say to people, 'We will make it safe for you'—. And that, Minister, I have to say, is where the simple decision over mandating the use of face masks would really help. Let's just do it and make people feel that they can make their contribution in making it safer on public transport, so we get more people back on right now. Thank you very much.

As our motion proposes, this Welsh Parliament should regret

'the failure of the Welsh Government to provide adequate support for Welsh bus operators during the coronavirus pandemic' and call on the Welsh Government to

'urgently review and increase the support available to bus operators in Wales to enable them to increase the frequency and capacity of bus services for the people of Wales'.

The number of bus and coach vehicles in Wales is down 10 per cent in five years, and almost 20 per cent over the last decade. Although a written statement by the Minister for economy and transport, Ken Skates, on 31 March detailed initial support of £69 million for bus and rail services, this is just the normal funding paid upfront, not new money. Three months later, there had still been no update on special funding for bus routes, in stark contrast to the UK Government, which, on 3 April, announced £397 million for English bus services to cope with the pandemic, including £167 million of new funding over 12 weeks, and to the Scottish Government, which announced £46.7 million additional expenditure on 19 June to support bus operators in increasing bus services over the next eight weeks. On 24 June, Arriva Buses Wales wrote to me about the significant impact of social distancing on bus capacity, adding that without additional financial support, akin to the COVID-19 bus service support grant in place across England, bus operators cannot operate the existing insufficient service levels across Wales on a financially sustainable basis, let alone increase service levels to 100 per cent of pre-crisis levels to provide essential capacity across the bus network.

My speech in the committee debate on the effects of COVID-19 on Wales's economy, infrastructure and skills, on 1 July, noted that although the Confederation of Passenger Transport presented a proposal to Welsh Government on 15 May, which would enable operators to ramp up bus services, with full costings for all Welsh bus operators, industry correspondence received in late June stated that they had still not received a considered official response, and Wales is now the only country in the UK that's not agreed funding for transport operators to begin to ramp up services, with other costs for additional services. That's a matter of shame. The next day, the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport, Lee Waters, announced the creation of the bus emergency scheme. After I copied his statement to industry representatives in north Wales, they responded that—quote—'continuing Welsh Government restrictions in response to the pandemic, including on social distancing, mean that capacity on bus services remains significantly reduced, and there is insufficient money from fares to increase services without increased funding.' 'We look forward', they said, 'to understanding the detail of the proposed transitional arrangements to bridge that gap so we can assess what step up in services may be possible within the resources available and from when.'

In the meantime, however, the Welsh Government has managed to find and rush out £15.4 million for COVID-proof travel schemes that widen pavements and create more space for cyclists, preventing essential prior engagement with the communities affected. In Denbigh, for example, this generated a torrent of e-mails, including: 'Anyone living in the surrounding villages will still need to drive to the town as cycling connections are very poor'; 'This is the most dangerous plan I've ever heard of'; 'I've been asking whether the residents of Denbigh will have the opportunity to give their opinions—I don't think we'll have a say'; 'There's a petition against this plan, which already has over 550 signatures; and 'These proposals are without any factual or logical grounding, and will ultimately be counterproductive.

So, we're calling on the Welsh Labour Government to relax the 2m rule to 1m plus, subject to precautionary measures, to ensure buses can run, and other transport bodies can reopen. As UK COVID-secure guidance states, applying mitigation, such as wearing a face covering, thorough cleaning, practising good hygiene, improved ventilation, and using protective screens at 1m is broadly equivalent to being 3m apart. This is key for the heavy goods vehicle driver training establishments in Gwynedd, which asked me to apply pressure on the First Minister to allow testing and move to the 1m rule in Wales. These tests will restart in England on 13 July. He said there are many driver training establishments of all sectors in Wales on the point of bankruptcy. Let us, therefore, hope that this First Minister will now acknowledge and address his Government's adverse impact on Wales's transport sector.

Thank you. Can I now call the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport, Lee Waters?

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to begin by adding my thanks to the transport workers, from airport workers allowing vital PPE to be delivered to Cardiff Airport, bus and train staff, who've helped key workers to deliver services, bike shop staff who've helped to encourage an uptake in cycling, to highway workers who've helped carry out vital repairs. Their hard work throughout the crisis has been invaluable.

These are serious times, Dirprwy Lywydd, and they demand serious responses, and this motion by the Conservative Party in Wales is not a serious response. And I say 'the Conservative Party in Wales', Dirprwy Lywydd, because I'm afraid that the honourable project to create the Welsh Conservatives seems to be dead—abandoned in the face of the coronavirus to follow the reckless path set by the Conservative Party in England.

Week after week, the Welsh Government has faced calls by the Conservative Party in Wales to copy the latest back-of-the-envelope announcement from Downing Street. Public health policy driven by press conference is not the approach of this Government. And unthinkingly copying the folly of their counterparts in London should not be the approach of the Tories here if they want the brand of the Welsh Conservative Party to have any remaining credibility. 

The motion regrets the failure of the Welsh Government to provide adequate support for Welsh bus operators during the coronavirus pandemic. It's simply not true, Dirprwy Lywydd. These are commercial companies, as they often remind us, and 95 per cent of their customers have stopped using their service, but while passengers have, understandably, stepped away from public transport, the Welsh Government has not. Darren Millar claimed that the 95 per cent drop was due to his favourite slogan—the 'cruel five-mile rule'. But the drop's been the same in England, Darren, so what's the logic of that? I think the word you used in your contribution was 'barmy'—well, if the cap fits.

We've been subsidising every bus passenger to the tune of £30 per head. Pre-COVID, public sector funding in Wales was around half of bus operators' revenue. The amount operators in Wales received from the taxpayers has not reduced. The UK Government has also provided additional funding to bus operators to also bring the amount of public funding they receive to just under half of their pre-COVID revenues, replicating our level of support. And yet, I don't hear the English Conservative Party in Wales pointing that out. Our emergency funding will continue to guarantee backing for the industry. Our own support now stands at over £45 million for the first six months of this financial year, and yet today's motion regrets our failure to provide adequate support. These are serious times—this is not a serious response.

We'll continue to support public transport, because even though passengers are staying away for now, we want to ensure that there's a network there to serve them when this is over. Of course, these are very difficult times, and there's huge demand on public funding, and a pound spent on running a mostly empty bus is a pound not spent on care homes, not spent on supporting struggling town centres, and not spent helping young people back to work. So, when we do commit Welsh taxpayers' money to help distressed bus companies, we make a choice, and it's our policy to get something in return for that—a commitment to keep down fares, a commitment to keep the services passengers want, and a commitment from companies to open up their books so that we can see that our funding is going where it should be.

Now, a number of contributors have discussed face masks in today's debate, Dirprwy Lywydd: Lynne Neagle, Caroline Jones and Huw Irranca-Davies. And as the First Minister said earlier to the Senedd, we are looking at the position on masks to see if we can allow more people to travel on public transport, and discussing with the chief medical officer his advice. It is not as simple as it's being presented. There are trade-offs here. We are concerned about equalities issues—many people aren't able to wear a mask. Many disabilities are hidden, and there is a danger that passengers feel the wrath of the worry of their fellow passengers for not wearing a mask. So, we need to tread carefully. And the evidence of masks impacting people's behaviour to become more reckless is something we're bearing in mind as well. But, as I say, we're reviewing it. We're not in a position today to change our position, but we are discussing this at the moment with the chief medical officer.

We will make additional funding available to support a gradual increase of services, but at a time that's right for passengers and the economy, not simply for bus company shareholders, who have been lobbying the Welsh Conservatives today, evidently. It may be that they want us to hand over more of our money to billionaire owners or foreign Governments, but we'll continue to insist on value for Welsh passengers and we make no apology for that. 

Let me turn to Cardiff Airport, where the motion criticises us for discouraging airlines from flying. An airport the Conservatives wanted us to let fail in private ownership, an airport the Welsh Government ownership rescued and revived and up until this pandemic hit was being turned around—numbers up by 70 per cent since the Welsh Government stepped in—and each step of the way, in the face of opposition from the Conservative Party in Wales—each step—and our calls for the UK Government to help regional airports, like Cardiff, ignored. And that's where the Welsh Conservatives should be putting some of their firepower, such as it is, to try and persuade the UK Government to develop a coherent regional airport strategy. 

And now we're criticised for wanting to enforce the travel restrictions that the Conservatives voted for. The Conservatives supported the law passed by this Senedd to ask people to stay local. And as soon as a corporation comes along, we see the true colours of the Tories—on the side of another private company that wants to put short-term profit before public health. And, again, we make no apologies for wanting to keep people safe. 

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Llywydd, the stay local law is now lifted, and we are working very closely with the management of Cardiff Airport to secure its future. So, we'll oppose the motion, Llywydd. We're grateful to Plaid Cymru for their amendment, which we will support. And I say to the Conservative Party in Wales, 'Get serious'. Diolch, Llywydd.  

I've been notified of two short interventions. The first is by Hefin David. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Much has been made by the bad cop, Russell George—no, the good cop, Russell George—75 per cent of his speech was bad cop—making reference to the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee evidence. Well, point 2, I think, of the motion says that the Conservatives regret the failure of the Welsh Government to provide adequate support for Welsh bus operators. But the evidence from Nigel Winter, the managing director of Stagecoach South Wales, in the committee—. I asked him this question: 

'Can I ask about the effectiveness of Welsh Government support, financial support, during the crisis, and how the funding is being allocated and on what basis?'

His reply, if I can just put it on the record: 

'If I can answer that, Chair, I think, first of all, to say that, when the pandemic first hit at the end of March/beginning of April, I thought that the reaction by the Minister to support the industry was very much appreciated, very timely, very quick. I think that his decisive action helped to sustain operators, which would otherwise, I think, have been in some serious financial difficulty.'

I think we need that on the record. 

And Helen Mary Jones. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I just wanted to correct or alter a comment I made in my earlier contribution. Of course, in referring to the reason why we oppose the idea that Welsh Government should never impose quarantine, I referred to an example that was outside the common travel area. It will not surprise Darren Millar, I'm sure, to know that I'm not an expert in these matters, but my point stands. It would still be ridiculous if there was an outbreak in Dublin or in Guernsey for the Welsh Government not to be able to impose quarantine, if that was the safe thing to do. I'm grateful to you, Llywydd, for allowing me to correct myself. 

Nick Ramsay to respond to the debate. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I thank everyone who's taken part in this important debate today? I think, to start with, I have to turn to the Minister's comments. I'm all for robust debate in this Chamber or on Zoom, and I know that things have been a little bit difficult with the format of debates over recent times, but to attack our motion as not being a serious motion I was highly disappointed with. When you look at a motion that calls for greater support for the bus industry, which has been having such difficulties with social distancing and maintained capacity, when we called in our motion for support for Cardiff Airport, and we, actually, dare to say that we believe that there should be flights going from Cardiff Airport, and yet it's—

But it wouldn't be there if it was up to you.

Well, I'm glad you've said that, Mick Antoniw, because it is quite true to say that we did not support the public ownership of that airport. But I tell you what, what is ironic is when you support public ownership of the airport and you put public money into that, and then you take decisions that refuse flights to fly from that airport that is going to get money back for the taxpayer. So, if we want to talk about serious debate in this Chamber, then I think the Minister should probably look a little bit more closely at his own contributions before attacking this side of the house. [Interruption.] I don't think I can take an intervention.

No—[Inaudible.]

I would otherwise, Jenny. The relaxation of the coronavirus restrictions on travel has created, I think it's true to say, a range of challenges, but also a range of opportunities, and I think that we need to look at the balance between those and make sure that we appreciate that. As Darren Millar said in opening, there's no doubt at all that restrictions, such as the 5-mile rule, no matter how much Ministers maintain that they were discretionary—it was causing confusion. It was causing stress. And for us to be told and for our constituents to be told that it was a rule but it wasn't a rule at the same time—well, that wasn't serious. And I'm pleased that that five—. And we all welcome the fact that that rule has been abolished, as Darren Millar said in opening.

Darren also said that he welcomed the bus emergency fund, and, yes, we do welcome that, but we do require more detail on it. And I wish, actually, the Minister in his response, rather than going on about the nuances of our motion so much, had actually given a little bit more detail on what is a very opaque area at the moment, and an area that the bus industry needs support on.

I'm pleased that Helen Mary Jones clarified her comments earlier. She must have anticipated that I was going to come back on her—. She also called our motion 'bonkers'. I'm not sure what it is, when you try to put in a motion things that are common sense to the public and common sense to people out there, that you need to support the economy, support transport links and support the public at a time of a pandemic—why on earth that would be called 'bonkers', I don't quite understand. But, yes, the common travel area, the example used with Paris, was an odd one.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to say, however, that in terms of, at some point in the future, trying to enforce a quarantine along the England-Wales border and within a common travel area that has existed within the UK and between Ireland for a 100 years—there would obviously be major difficulties in enforcing that quarantine. There would be major costs involved. So, I think it is again quite reasonable for us to say that that should not be something that the Welsh Government should be counting on. Of course, it would require further co-operation across the UK as well. And, yes, the Minister emeritus, Alun Davies—well, he piped up earlier and accused the Welsh Conservatives of having a fetish with the border. Well, all we're pointing out is that the border is a long, porous border. It does have real issues and to try and enforce a quarantine would be difficult. And once again, there was no detail given. It was all very opaque as to how that would happen in practice.

Caroline Jones, and Lynne Neagle, actually, made very sensible points about calling on the Welsh Government to review the decision not to make the wearing of face masks mandatory on public transport. Again, how can you describe that as not a serious point to make in the debate? Most experts accept that the wearing of face masks should be a mandatory condition, and that's happening elsewhere. So, if there really is this evidence that the Minister has identified as to why we shouldn't have that mandated in Wales, then let's see that evidence. I think Lynne Neagle called for that. Let's see it. Let's all understand why it is that the wearing of face masks should not be mandatory in this corner of the United Kingdom when it should be mandated everywhere else.

Central to all of this is the need, as I know the Welsh Government constantly say and have argued in the past, to protect the public. That is why we have brought this debate forward. That is why we have these debates on the need to deal with the pandemic. We need to protect the public, but at the same time we need to ease the lockdown and support the economy as we move forward.

And I'll say in closing, Llywydd, that I hope that when we do come out of this lockdown, going back to some of Darren Millar's initial points—I do hope that we will not simply be trying to return to all the old practices of the past, and that we will be seeking to walk the walk, not just talk the talk, in terms of developing a greener economy, a more sustainable economy in the future, an economy that builds on opportunities that have been presented over the last month, and doesn't just respond and shy away from some of the challenges that are being presented. I think the public understand that, we understand that, many Assembly Members—Senedd Members, I should say—from the Government benches understand that as well. This is a serious debate, it's a serious motion, this is a serious discussion to be had. Let's all of us work together and as we move forward put the Welsh economy on a footing so that we can come out of this lockdown in a really solid, sustainable way and we can build a Wales in the future that people can be proud of.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? Does any Member object? [Objection.]

I thought you might. [Laughter.]

I will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time. 

Voting deferred until voting time.

In accordance with Standing Order 31.14D, there will be a break of at least five minutes before voting time, and ICT support will be on hand to assist with any issues during this time. So, we will now take a break.

Plenary was suspended at 18:56.

The Senedd reconvened at 19:06, with the Llywydd in the Chair.