We will continue with the rest of the agenda today, and I'll start by calling on the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs to move the motion—Lesley Griffiths.

Motion NDM7408 Lesley Griffiths

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 29.6, agrees that provisions in the Fisheries Bill, in so far as they fall within the legislative competence of the Senedd, should be considered by the UK Parliament.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Chair. I'm very pleased to bring forward this legislative consent motion for the UK Government's Fisheries Bill. I would like to thank members of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee, and the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, for their detailed scrutiny of this Bill during its passage through the UK Parliament. I've laid a number of LCMs across the many lives of this Bill, and I'm grateful for the committees' consideration of them. I recognise the timetable for scrutiny has often been extremely tight, but much of this has been out of our control. There are significant challenges to try to co-ordinate Parliament and Senedd timetables. Wherever possible, I've aimed to provide committees and Members with as much information as possible.

I was pleased to be able to agree to the majority of the recommendations in the LCM reports from both committees, and I hope I provided clarity and reassurance on the points raised. Mick Antoniw, the chair of the LJC committee, wrote to me yesterday seeking further clarity on several issues, and I will address those comments in my opening remarks. I will, of course, also be formally replying to the letter. 

The Welsh Government supports this Bill for a number of reasons. Firstly, it extends the legislative competence of the Senedd in matters relating to fishing, fisheries and fish health in the Welsh zone. That was our No. 1 ask, and a clear red line for me. This will enable us to bring forward a Welsh fisheries Bill in future for all Welsh waters. Secondly, we remain committed to implementing a collaborative UK-wide approach to create a fisheries framework, which can only be done effectively in a UK Bill. Thirdly, it will provide a coherent set of powers for managing our fisheries as an independent coastal state. I have been clear it is not my intention to keep the non-framework powers in a UK Bill for any longer than is necessary. In the meantime, I've agreed to the climate change committee's recommendation on the need to make a biennial report to the Senedd on the implementation of the Bill in relation to Wales until such time as a Welsh fisheries Bill is introduced.

In relation to Schedule 3, I note the LJC committee's concerns raised on the powers within Schedule 3 for sea fish licensing authorities. The fisheries licensing powers are part of the framework powers. Around the circumstances in which I would consider it necessary and expedient to exercise the Schedule 3 powers, it is my view these regulation-making powers are drafted appropriately for the effective functioning of our fisheries licensing system now and in the future. Regulations made under these powers will be subject to Senedd scrutiny.

Another issue both committees raised in their scrutiny was in relation to the power of the Secretary of State to determine fishing opportunities and the potential to impact on devolved competence. Satisfactory resolution of this issue has always been a red line for me. I note the Chair of the LJC committee's view on this matter, however I am satisfied this issue will be resolved via the UK fisheries framework memorandum of understanding and the exchange of letters with the UK Government, which I shared with the committees, and that provides me with the level of assurance needed.

As I have advised committees, I had hoped to be in a position to share the drafting of the memorandum of understanding in advance of today's debate. However, given the wide-ranging nature of the memorandum of understanding, it is still in development, and, with the timetable for this Bill, it was impossible to share in advance of today's debate. However, I would not be bringing this Bill forward for consent if I was not satisfied this issue had been satisfactorily resolved. Regretfully, the fast pace of the Bill in the final stages in the UK Parliament has meant the usual committee scrutiny of the latest supplementary LCMs has not been possible. I am pleased therefore we have an extended debate today to provide Members with the opportunity for their views to be heard. 

I wrote to committees last week, noting we are seeking further amendments at Commons Report Stage. Due to delays by the UK Government, it was not possible to finalise some of the necessary amendments prior to this debate, which is not ideal. With that in mind, I included in my letter to the committees details of the amendments we are seeking. We have sought amendments to the Legislation (Wales) Act 2019 to ensure the Act applies to subordinate legislation made in relation to the Welsh zone following the extension of legislative competence in the Bill. We are also seeking agency arrangement powers to enable Welsh Ministers to enter into administrative arrangements with Scottish Ministers, the Northern Ireland department and the Marine Management Organisation on the exercise of fisheries functions—for example, on joined-up control and enforcement or for science and research purposes. We are no longer seeking the amendments to Schedules 3 and 8 I had noted in my recent letter.

One additional point I wish to address from the LJC committee's letter is the concern raised on recommendations 6 and 7 of the committee's report, relating to changes to retained EU law and Welsh functions. I can assure Members no powers are being lost, and I set out the detailed analysis in my letter to committees on 3 September.

Looking ahead, I recently issued a written statement that sets out our plans for future fisheries policies in Wales. As I note in the statement, I am committed to delivering increased fishing opportunities for our Welsh industry, ensuring Wales receives its fair share of any new opportunities, in turn maximising benefits for our coastal communities and allowing for new activities, such as processing and other economic activities and benefits. The Bill reflects our strong commitment to delivering sustainable fisheries in Welsh waters and to working with others with whom we share stocks. In addition, the need for a modern and flexible system of domestic management for non-quota stocks is also central to delivering sustainable Welsh fisheries. This Bill, including, importantly, the extension of legislative competence, provides the appropriate legal powers to deliver our future policy and aspirations. I therefore move the motion and ask the Senedd to approve this LCM. Diolch.

Thank you. I call on Jenny Rathbone to speak on behalf of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee. Jenny Rathbone. 

Thank you, acting Presiding Officer. Speaking on behalf of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee, which has published three reports on four legislative consent memorandums since the first version of the Fisheries Bill went before the UK Parliament in November 2018, I'd like to thank very much all those who have contributed to our work. Our first report on an LCM for the Bill was published in February 2019. This Bill failed to complete its passage by the end of the last parliamentary session, so a new and somewhat improved version of the Bill was presented to the UK Parliament in January this year. We reported on the new Bill in May and again in September, but, since then, two further supplementary LCMs have been laid with no time for committee scrutiny ahead of today's debate. This piecemeal approach to scrutiny illustrates how unsatisfactory the LCM process is when considering Bills of this nature.

In the main, the Welsh Government has responded positively to our reports, accepting the majority of our recommendations. Although in most cases this has not resulted in amendments to the Bill, we have managed to secure firm commitments from the Minister on several key issues, and we will obviously pursue these with the Minister in due course. We are broadly content with the Welsh Government's response, but there are a couple of matters I want to draw to the Senedd's attention.

As the Minister has already outlined, the primary purpose of the Bill is to establish a framework for fisheries management in the UK once it has left the common fisheries policy. We accept the need for such a framework, and using a UK Bill to achieve this is a sensible approach; fish are no respecters of boundaries. But the Bill includes provisions for Wales that go beyond that to establishing a framework, and these include extensive regulation and executive-making powers for Welsh Ministers. Now, the Minister has consistently maintained that these powers are necessary to support Welsh fisheries to get through a very uncertain period. That is hard to argue against with a Brexit trade agreement yet to be reached, the COVID pandemic continuing to take its toll and no prospect of a Welsh fisheries Bill in this parliamentary term.

Now, the Minister has maintained that the powers being taken are transitional, but this is not reflected in the Bill. In our second report, we recommended a statutory time limit on these powers via a sunset clause, and the same recommendation was made by the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. This recommendation was rejected on the basis that the Welsh Government could not guarantee a Welsh fisheries Bill would be introduced before any time-limited powers expired. Lesley Griffiths has committed to bringing forward a Welsh Bill in the next Senedd, but there are no guarantees that a different Minister or, indeed, a different Government will give that same commitment. Without a sunset clause, there will be little or no impetus for any new Government to introduce its own Bill. It would be able to rely indefinitely on powers in the UK fisheries Bill, powers that have been consented to by the Senedd, at least in part, on the basis that they are transitional. As the Minister has ruled out a sunset clause, the Senedd must have an opportunity to reassess the merits of powers being conferred by the UK Bill. As recommended in our latest report, we've just heard that the Minister has given a commitment to report to the Senedd biennially on the exercise of these powers.

And then, I want to focus on the current clause 23—the power of the Secretary of State to determine UK fishing opportunities. This was initially a red line for the Minister. Her concerns, shared by the committee, were about the extent of the powers and their impingement on devolved matters. The Minister has sought to address these concerns not by pursuing an amendment to the Bill, as recommended by us, but through a memorandum of understanding between Governments. Despite previous assurances, the Minister is unable to share that memorandum of understanding with the Senedd. She's also unable to share a draft memorandum of understanding. The Minister has, however, provided a copy of her recent exchange of correspondence with the UK Government on what would be a reasonable approach to consulting before the Secretary of State exercises the power under clause 23.

Our committee has not had an opportunity to consider this latest information, but I hope I speak on behalf of the committee in saying it is disappointing that the UK Government has been unable to agree all of the Minister's asks. It remains unclear whether the UK Government and the Minister have managed to provide the necessary level of assurance on this issue. Llywydd, each of the committee's reports have recommended that the Senedd gives consent to the relevant provisions in the Bill, subject to being satisfied with the Welsh Government's responses, and I ask Members to reflect on the points I've raised before making their decision tonight. Thank you.  

Thank you. I now call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mick Antoniw. 

Thank you for that. We first began our consideration of a UK Fisheries Bill as long ago as December 2018, and Members will know that the first version of the UK Government's Fisheries Bill fell due to the dissolution of the UK Parliament late last year, and that was after the Welsh Government had laid two legislative consent memoranda on that Bill, which we reported on in February 2019. The current UK Government brought forward a new Fisheries Bill in January of this year, and the Welsh Government has laid four legislative consent memoranda, and we have reported twice, first in May, and subsequently just two weeks ago. Memorandum No. 3 was laid just days before our reporting deadline, and the fourth memorandum arrived only last Thursday.

So, in our committee yesterday we discussed memorandum No. 4, along with a letter from the Minister sent to us on 1 October, and, as a result, we wrote to the Minister yesterday requesting further clarity on her letter and memorandum No. 4. This correspondence has been published, and I'm grateful for the reply from the Minister. It's important to note that memorandum No. 4 does not make it clear that the Welsh Government is seeking further amendments to the Bill. Now, these decisions will be made after this Senedd votes on the motion today. The Minister's letter provides some details about these amendments, and you can see that letter in the papers for today's Plenary meeting. We've not had time to assess the impact of these amendments. The Minister has said she will inform Senedd Members of any changes made at Commons Report Stage following the debate. I would suggest that this isn't satisfactory. In our February 2019 report, we highlighted our increasing concern with the transfer of powers from the Senedd as a legislature to the Welsh Government as the executive. This concern is amplified where powers are delegated to the Welsh Ministers through a UK Bill, which Senedd Members are not directly able to influence. In contrast, Members of the Senedd would, obviously, play a key role in the development of a Welsh Bill.

Now, originally, the Minister told us that it was her intention to bring forward a Welsh fisheries Bill in this Senedd term. With that stated intention, it's unclear why the Minister has not sought the inclusion of a sunset clause in the Bill. The Minister's reasoning was that the Welsh Government did not yet have fisheries built into its legislative programme. We raised this issue again in our two reports on the LCMs for the current Bill. In our report laid two weeks ago, we put forward a revised proposal to the Minister. Now, whilst not ideal, we see no reason why a sunset provision in the UK Bill, specifying a date of 2024, could not be accompanied by a Henry VIII power for the Welsh Ministers that would permit the extension of the sunset date by two years. Such a regulation-making power should be subject to the affirmative procedure in the Senedd and, sadly, this proposal has been rejected.

I'd now like to move on to highlight another significant issue. It is an unwelcome fact that, with each LCM we have considered for Brexit-related Bills, there have been notable disputes between the Welsh and UK Governments regarding what is considered to be a devolved matter. The power in the Bill for the Secretary of State to determine UK fishing opportunities was initially a red line for the Minister, because the power interfered with a devolved matter. However, the Minister is seeking to resolve this issue be means of a memorandum of understanding, and that has given us considerable cause for concern, not least because such agreements do not bind either party. The Minister indicated that the development of a memorandum of understanding was critical to any recommendation she may give for the Senedd's consent to be given to the Bill. Now, last week, the Minister shared with us her letter to the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, in which the Minister set out her preferred terms of an agreement on the use the powers to determine fishing opportunities. This agreement is in lieu of the fact that the MOU is still in development.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, there has not been time to fully analyse the correspondence that has been shared with us. However, it is not immediately clear to us that the UK Government has committed, or the status of any commitment, to the terms of the agreement as proposed by the Minister. Even with this exchange of correspondence, the fact that the MOU will not be ready ahead of the completion of the Bill's passage through the UK Parliament is unacceptable. The Senedd is being placed at a severe disadvantage in not having access to the detail of the memorandum of understanding relating to the exercise of the Secretary of State's power to determine fishing opportunities.

Moving on, the Bill provides extensive regulation-making and Executive powers to Welsh Ministers. In our report laid in May of this year, we said that it was frustrating that the LCM does not adequately identify the regulation-making powers being taken nor seek to justify why they are being taken. We were also disappointed that the Minister has provided limited information about the rationale and process for the Welsh Ministers providing consent to the UK Government to make regulations in devolved areas.

Now, before concluding, we acknowledge that the Bill extends the Senedd's competence in relation to fishing, fisheries and fish health to the whole of the Welsh zone. While we welcome this extension of competence, it could also have been achieved via a section 109 Order, which would have been subject to scrutiny and approval by the Senedd. Now, as is becoming clear on Brexit-related UK Bills, the legislative consent process has limitations, not least because the Senedd is precluded from the full scrutiny of proposed law that will eventually apply in Wales and in particular because of the need to act in accordance with timetabling in the UK Parliament. There are many examples where the UK Parliament legislating for Wales on a devolved matter may be pragmatic and reasonable. However, in the view of the committee, it's regrettable that a significant change to the law in Wales for the fisheries sector has not been made in Wales. Thank you.

As a nation with a proud seafaring tradition, the importance of this Fisheries Bill cannot be overstated. Our relationship with the sea has not only helped to shape our nation's history but also our culture. This LCM acknowledges that there needs to be a UK-wide approach to create the fisheries framework, which can only be done through a UK Bill. It enables the Welsh Government to act decisively until we reach a time that a comprehensive Wales fisheries Bill can be brought before the Welsh Parliament for full and proper scrutiny.

The Bill introduces many significant positives for Wales, redefining responsibilities in relation to fisheries or the Welsh Government and its marine and fisheries division, including the development of new regulations, new fisheries management plans, new inter-governmental arrangements, including the joint fisheries statement, memorandum of understanding and dispute resolution arrangements, and greater responsibility for regulating and enforcing fisheries in the Welsh zone. It acknowledges the technical and global nature of the fishing market. Clauses 12 and 13 make provision for access to British fisheries by British and foreign fishing boats. Schedule 2 also contains amendments to ensure that any foreign vessels that enter our waters will be subject to the same regulations as British fishing boats. Meanwhile, clauses 19 to 22 and Schedule 4 provide for access and licensing offences. However, these clauses can be only enforced by a fully funded marine and fisheries division.

A CCERA report has previously highlighted concerns about the capacity of fisheries policy and legal staff within Welsh Government to deal with the increased workload resulting from this new legislation. Minister, in a letter that you sent to the committee on 30 June, you said that

'where additional costs may arise' in relation to the marine and fisheries division,

'they will be drawn from existing programme budgets.'

With concern also that staffing of this team is at half capacity, I urge the Welsh Government to explain what assessment has been made to establish what additional costs may amount to and to explicitly state whether this cost can actually be met by existing budgets.

Clause 23 enables the UK Secretary of State to determine the maximum quantity of sea fish that may be caught by British fishing boats and the maximum number of days that British fishing boats may spend at sea. Under clause 24, before such a determination is made or withdrawn, the Secretary of State must consult Welsh Ministers.

The Welsh Government is to sign a memorandum of understanding on this front, which, at the time of this LCM, remains pending. Now, I share the Minister's confidence in the commitments made by British Government thus far that any MOU will fulfil the parameters laid between the two parties.

Clause 1 sets out the UK's fisheries objectives, which will apply across the UK, alongside a redrafted sustainability objective. The Bill now introduces a new climate change objective. These changes realise that this Bill offers an unprecedented opportunity for the UK and Wales to demonstrate viable environmental ambition and leadership to sustainable maritime policy, but sustainability also means supporting coastal jobs and the communities they serve. It also means ensuring that Welsh fisheries are economically viable and resilient for future generations. Therefore, I welcome the introduction of a new objective under clause 1, designated 'national benefit'.

Information dating back to 1985 suggests that the Welsh fishing industry is the smallest national industry in the UK. In 2012, there were approximately 1,020 employed in fishing, 643 regular full-time workers and 347 fishing staff. More broadly, the number of fishing vessels in the UK fleet has fallen by 29 per cent since 1996. The environmental economist Griffin Carpenter has noted that the financial assistance powers offered under this clause will enable Welsh Ministers to provide funding for a broader range of purposes when compared to the current European maritime and fisheries fund. This included financial assistance for training, which Mr Carpenter suggested could help support young entrants and in turn potentially rejuvenate the fishing industry in Wales.

The Welsh Conservatives will be voting in favour of giving consent, because to do so is a positive step forward towards a thriving and sustainable future for the Welsh fishing industry. But the Welsh Government must act on the concerns of CCERA in relation to the funding and staffing of the marine and fisheries division, and look to finalise the MOU as soon as possible. Thank you. Diolch.

I have to say that there is a feeling of groundhog day around this debate, because there is great similarity between this debate this week and the debate that we had on the UK Agriculture Bill just last week. There are some positives, of course, before us today. Extending the competence of the Senedd in relation to fisheries, fishing and fish health in the context of the Welsh zone is something that's to be welcomed. But I'm afraid that there is a great deal in the Bill that is far less positive. I'm still concerned that there is no clarity on how resources will be shared across UK administrations, or how any dispute can be resolved, not only in terms of resource, but also from a policy point of view.

From the outset, Plaid Cymru and the committees that we've heard from in this debate have called for a sunset clause. I still feel that that is necessary; we, as Members of this Senedd, do need assurances that there will be a Welsh fisheries Bill that will allow us to reset the powers provided to Welsh Ministers by Westminster in a way that bypasses our role as Members of this Senedd. I'm surprised that the Welsh Government has rejected that. You accepted that in the context of the Agriculture Bill last week, and the principle is exactly the same. The content and the topic is different, but the principle is exactly the same, so I don't understand why one rule is acceptable in one context, and another acceptable in another context.

And the Minister is now belatedly offering or promising a biennial report or some sort of periodical update. That does absolutely nothing to address the fundamental issue of not having the sunset clause, which, of course, is one of a democratic deficit, as far as we're concerned as Members of this Senedd.

I was tickled by the Minister's description of Wales as an independent coastal state in opening the debate. You say as much on the one hand, and then, on the other hand, of course, you accept a situation where the Secretary of State will be able to exercise powers to determine fishing opportunities in Welsh waters. Now, this brings me to the memorandum of understanding—or the non-memorandum of understanding—the one you promised that we would be allowed to review in advance of this consent decision today. Now, of course, you're telling us there is no memorandum of understanding, that it's still in development, but that you've had some sort of promises by the UK Government that provide you with the assurance you need to recommend that we approve this LCM. Do you really trust the UK Government, Minister? Are you really taking them on their word? This is a Government that's happy to flagrantly break international laws, and a fellow Labour Member of this Senedd reminded us a moment ago that you can't trust the Tories in this Chamber—his words, not mine. But, seemingly, you can. Now, just weeks ago, you were telling us that this was a red line as far as you were concerned, and now you're expecting us to consent to the legislation based on back-of-a-fag-packet assurances that you've had from UK Government Ministers that they won't overrule the Welsh Government as and when they please. You're absolutely deluded if you think that you can stake your authority on such a limp understanding with the UK Government. Your red lines have just melted away, Minister, and, as far as I'm concerned, it seems to me that you're capitulating to the UK Government. Wales deserves better than this, and I think you know that, Minister. I honestly think you know that.

Now, I share all of the concerns articulated by the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee in the letter and in his earlier remarks. And, of course, that reminds us that the Bill is still changing. And it reflects badly on this whole process, I think, that the Government tabled its original LCM on 12 February, tabled a supplementary LCM on 8 July, another supplementary LCM on 16 September, and yet another one again last week on 1 October—no doubt there probably will be another one again before we get to where the Government wants to be. And the irony here, of course, is the same as the one I highlighted in relation to the UK Agriculture Bill last week. Whatever we decide here today, the UK Government will carry on regardless, ignoring whether we consent to them legislating in devolved areas or not. I appreciate that there are some positives in this Bill, but, on balance, Minister, I can't support this LCM before us today.

I have considerable concerns about this arrangement: one of them is that I don't trust the Tories, and that's my red line for myself. I will support it, but I'm going to support it with huge reservations, which I want to outline. I don't think that biennial reporting is equitable to a sunset clause, and that concerns me. But what really concerns me here is that 90 per cent of the Welsh fishing fleet is made up of small vessels, and they predominantly catch shellfish, and most of that is exported to the EU, and there isn't even a trading agreement in place. Coming back to where I started, I don't trust the Tories: apparently we had the best trading deal ever, and now it transpires we haven't even got a trading deal of any description whatsoever. If we add into that the fact that COVID-19 has had a devastating impact on the industry, and the price of fish has dropped dramatically, by up to 85 per cent in some cases—and, of course, the unavoidable closure of hospitality businesses and restaurants has made the demand for shellfish much reduced.

So, whilst I'm going to support it, I do share all the concerns that people have already outlined. I would like to hear an explanation, really, of why you are so confident that, within the framework—. And I do acknowledge, of course, the positives that others have outlined—I don't want to take time up repeating those—but I would like the answer to how you feel confident that you can, moving forward, under the framework agreement, get a deal that will safeguard, as I've said from the very start, the interests of the fishing industry, albeit small, that exists in Wales. 

Thank you. I now call on the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs, Lesley Griffiths, to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Chair. I absolutely recognise many of the concerns raised around scrutiny of LCMs and the short timescales that we've had to do this that many Members have raised today. I said in my opening remarks that this is not ideal.

We have achieved a significant constitutional step forward through this Bill to extend the legislative competence of the Senedd in relation to the Welsh zone, and several Members recognised that today. Coupled with the wider powers that are included in the Bill, this will enable us to manage our Welsh fisheries better and to deliver our future fisheries policy, and we are absolutely committed to providing a bespoke Welsh fisheries Bill. I am sorry that we haven't been able to do it in this term due to the recent constraints of the legislative programme, and clearly with COVID-19 as well, that's had a significant impact.

On questioning about why I'm taking what the UK Government say, I think one area that is different, very much, in relation to fisheries as compared with agriculture, which Llyr Huws Gruffydd raised, is that there is such a long-standing relationship around fisheries with the UK Government. So, every December, all Ministers—Scotland, Northern Ireland, myself and the UK Government—attend the December council in Brussels. So, there has been for many, many years that agreement and that long-standing relationship. So, I've shared all the correspondence with committees and I will continue to do so to provide that reassurance. 

If I can just turn to some of the points raised by Members, I am intrigued as to why Janet Finch-Saunders is so obsessed with the level of staffing in my department. As I told you, I think, recently in a written question that you asked me, that is a matter for the Permanent Secretary and I've asked the Permanent Secretary to write to you with regard to staffing. 

Both Jenny Rathbone on behalf of the CCERA committee and Mick Antoniw as Chair of LJC committee spoke about the sunset clause. I committed to making my own report to the Senedd on the implementation of the provisions in the Bill that relate only to Wales until such time as a Welsh fisheries Bill is introduced, and I did that on the recommendation of the CCERA committee. And as I've said, it's not my intention to have these powers in a UK Bill for any longer than is necessary. We do need to ensure that we have the necessary toolkit in place to manage the challenge that Brexit poses, and now COVID-19, for our fisheries industry, so we need to retain those powers in this UK Bill.

And talking about that double challenge, Joyce Watson raised concerns around the interests of small fisheries and whether they will be protected. I'm very concerned about the impact of a 'no deal' Brexit, which is becoming more and more apparent as the months go on, that there is not that trade deal that we need. We know our fleet's dependence on access to the EU markets—our closest neighbours; 0.5 billion people—and we also recognise the impact the closure of the EU markets due to COVID-19 has had on the industry, and we have provided £0.5 million of bespoke support to the sector. 

But, I reiterate, this Bill will provide us with the powers to better equip and manage our fisheries in the future, irrespective of what happens with those negotiations.

Minister, I wonder if I might ask you to draw your remarks to a close; we're a little over. Thank you.

Thank you, Chair. Just to say, regarding the MOU, I don't think I promised to bring it forward; I said I would if I could. That is still being drafted, but as soon as I'm able to share it, I will. Diolch, Chair. 

Thank you very much. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.