As there is no objection to that grouping, I call on the Minister for Housing and Local Government to move the motion. Julie James.

Motion NDM7422 Rebecca Evans

To propose that the Senedd in accordance with Standing Order 26.11:

Agrees to the general principles of the Renting Homes (Amendment) (Wales) Bill.

Motion NDM7423 Rebecca Evans

To propose that the Senedd, for the purposes of any provisions resulting from the Renting Homes (Amendment) (Wales) Bill, agrees to any increase in expenditure of a kind referred to in Standing Order 26.69, arising in consequence of the Bill.

Motions moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. In opening, I would like to begin by thanking the various Senedd committees, Members and staff, who have pulled out all the stops to ensure that this Bill has been able to progress to today's debate, through what has been an extremely turbulent and challenging seven months. I should also like to thank my officials for the sterling work they have done in keeping the show on the road, despite the constant pressures the pandemic has placed on our resources during that time. It is a demonstration of our maturity and professionalism as a legislature and a Government that we have been able to push ahead with our key legislative ambitions at the same time as navigating our way through a crisis of unparalleled proportions, as well as managing the complex preparations for the end of EU transition. I do not underestimate the effort that has gone into getting us this far with the Bill, and I hope I am not tempting fate when I say that. Having read the Stage 1 reports from the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee and the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, I am optimistic that, with the continued support of Members, we will be able to get this Bill through the remainder of the scrutiny stages and onto the statute book before the end of this Senedd term.

I would now like to turn to the recommendations of the ELGC and LJC committees, but before doing so, I should note that the Finance Committee has not published a report of its own in relation to the Bill. I take this as a positive sign that the committee was satisfied by the written and oral evidence I provided, and that it accepts my assertions that this legislation will not have negative financial consequences for good landlords in Wales, and will not lead to the courts service in Wales becoming overburdened. I look forward to hearing from Llyr later in the debate. Now to take each of the nine recommendations in the ELGC committee report in turn.

I welcome the first recommendation, that the Senedd should support the general principles of the Bill. I am happy to accept the second recommendation in principle. We will of course keep a close eye on the effects of the legislation over time, once it has been brought into force, and we'll undertake a review of its impact and effectiveness once sufficient time has elapsed. I completely agree that this is of fundamental importance, and I can tell you that work on how best to monitor the effects of the legislation is already under way. We will also consider how best to report on the impacts of the legislation, in ways that are helpful to the sector and to the development of future policy and practice. And should any unintended consequences come to light, we will of course take steps to address those, either through guidance or, if necessary, further legislative change. My only reservation with the recommendation, and the reason why I've accepted it in principle rather than unconditionally, is that some of the areas the committee have included in the proposed scope for such a review are matters that are not directly related to the Bill, and that would not be affected by its implementation—for example, the consolidation of housing law, or matters that will be addressed through other work, such as the number of intentionally homeless people, which will be picked up as part of wider work within Welsh Government, including our response to the various reports and recommendations of the homelessness action group.

Turning to recommendation 3, I am happy to accept this, and I will discuss with my Cabinet colleagues and officials whether the Wales Centre for Public Policy would be the body best able to undertake such an exercise. And if there is agreement, we will look to commission that work accordingly.

The next recommendation I am also happy to accept. Whilst engagement with private rented sector tenants has long been recognised as challenging due to the nature of the sector and the diversity of people who rent their homes from a private landlord, we have been able to make significant improvements through the pandemic, through innovative communication techniques. I should point out as well that the Welsh Government already funds the Tenant Participation Advisory Service Cymru, whose remit includes engaging with PRS tenants. It may well be that there is some merit in reviewing the effectiveness of those arrangements, especially in the context of the lessons we continue to learn from the experience of COVID. I have therefore asked for that to be taken forward, and I will report back to the Senedd on this at a future date. I hope that this will satisfy the committee on this point.

Recommendation 5 asks the Government to bring forward amendments at Stage 2 to ensure properties occupied by ministers of religion are exempted from the requirements of this legislation. I am happy to accept this recommendation in principle. In doing so, I should explain firstly that discussions are continuing between my officials and representatives of the sector in Wales on this matter, and that secondly we do already have a regulation-making power in the Bill that allows for such an exemption to be inserted into Schedule 1. So a specific amendment to this effect is not required. Therefore, rather than bringing forward an amendment at Stage 2, I give you a commitment instead that we will make regulations to provide this exemption prior to implementation of the amended Act if we conclude that this is necessary. I trust this will satisfy the committee in this respect.

Recommendation 6 asks that we bring forward an amendment to extend the period within which a landlord's notice can be withdrawn and resubmitted, for example to correct an error, from 14 days to 28 days. Having listened to the arguments put forward on this matter by landlords' representatives, and having taken the committee's conclusions on this into account, I'm happy to accept this recommendation on the basis it will be helpful to good landlords who have made an honest mistake. Furthermore, it will not impact negatively on contract holders, as the reissued notice will still be required to run for a minimum of six months. So, yes, we will bring forward an amendment to make that change.

Recommendation 7 asks that we undertake a detailed feasibility study into how a housing tribunal or court could work in Wales, with a view to establishing such a body as a priority in the next Senedd if the study were to conclude that this was likely to lead to improvements in the sector and would be deliverable. I accept this recommendation in principle. Committee members will know from my evidence that I personally am supportive of a housing court or tribunal for Wales, as are other political parties in the Senedd. Whilst I appreciate that the recommendation relates only to the setting up of a feasibility study at this time, that would still be a significant undertaking at a time when all our available resources are stretched to the limit in managing the impact of the coronavirus outbreak and indeed on this Bill. Furthermore, we only have a very limited time remaining in the current Senedd term. Therefore, it would be unrealistic for me to commit to beginning work on a feasibility study at this time. It is for these reasons that the Government is only able to support this recommendation in principle for now, but I do hope that once we are over the current difficulties and some sort of normality has returned, this is something that a future administration would wish to take forward as soon as resources permit.

Recommendation 8 asks us to issue new guidance to local authorities when the amended 2016 Act comes into force, requiring them to consider any persons served with a notice that is due to expire within 84 days as threatened with homelessness and as such eligible for support under the Housing (Wales) Act 2014. I am happy to accept this recommendation in principle, as I strongly support the principle of engaging households at an early stage to work to prevent homelessness. It would not however be possible to amend the statutory definition of 'threatened with homelessness' as set out in the Housing (Wales) Act 2014 by issuing guidance. We will therefore consider how best to achieve the principle of earlier intervention and support contained in this recommendation as part of our wider homelessness prevention work.

The final recommendation from the ELGC committee asks that we amend the 2014 Act so that those same homelessness duties are only considered discharged if an individual or family are provided with accommodation for 12 months, rather than the current six months. Whilst I understand the rationale behind this recommendation, it is not, I'm afraid, one that the Government can support. Any potential legislative changes could not be made in isolation and would need to be considered as part of the wider policy and legislative considerations in taking forward the transformational agenda set out in our strategy for ending homelessness, published in October 2019. The work to deliver the strategy is being informed by the expert homelessness action group and has moved forward at pace this year, with significant investment in the COVID-19 phase 2 homelessness response. The homelessness action group specifically examined the policy framework and measures required to end homelessness in Wales and their report will inform the wider considerations as to any potential policy and legislative changes required. It is for these reasons that I reject recommendation 9. 

Turning now to the four recommendations from the LJC committee. In relation to the first of those recommendations, a thorough assessment of provisions contained in the Bill has taken place to ensure that they are compatible with human rights. 

The second recommendation is that we should increase engagement and develop more formal links with contract holders in the private rented sector in Wales. This mirrors the ELGC committee's recommendations 3 and 4, which I indicated earlier I am happy to accept, noting that we already support TPAS Cymru in this regard. I trust that the LJC committee will be satisfied with my offer to review the effectiveness of those arrangements with a view to bolstering them where necessary. 

The third of the LJC committee's recommendations asks that, as part of our planned evaluation of the 2016 Act, as amended by this Bill, we should give consideration to the necessity and potential urgency for the full consolidation of housing law as it is applicable in Wales. This is certainly something that the Government can accept in principle, although, by its nature, is a commitment that would be for a future administration to take forward. As I mentioned earlier, though, reviewing the potential consolidation of housing law in Wales is not an exercise that we could conduct as part of any review of the 2016 Act in operation. It would be a separate exercise and it is for that reason I am inclined to accept this recommendation in principle rather then unconditionally.

And finally, recommendation 4 relates to the potential for establishing a housing tribunal in Wales. As I indicated in my response to the ELGC's similar recommendation on this matter, whilst I am personally supportive, this is really now a matter for a future government, rather than this one, so I accept the recommendation in principle on that basis. 

This brings me to the end of my formal responses to each of the committees recommendations. I would like to reiterate my serious thanks to the committee Chairs, members and staff who have worked so hard in exceptionally difficult circumstances to complete the Stage 1 scrutiny process and deliver these reports. I think it is a mark of the effort that has gone into developing this particular legislative approach to improving security of tenure that these reports have generally been favourable, with only limited recommendations for amendments to the Bill itself. 

We have worked hard to develop a Bill that strikes a fair balance between the interests of contract holders to allow them to feel secure and settled in the accommodation that they call home, whilst also respecting the interests of landlords, allowing them to regain possession of their property when there is good reason for them needing to do so.

In closing, I would also like to mention that, following detailed discussions with my Cabinet colleagues over the past weeks, it has become clear to me that we no longer have sufficient legislative time or capacity to complete all of the work necessary to bring the provisions of the amended 2016 Act into force next year, as we had hoped to do prior to the COVID outbreak. We will instead look to complete all of the necessary subordinate legislation guidance and awareness-raising work required in time for a spring 2022 implementation date. I am very disappointed that we have had to take this step, but that is the reality of the situation that we're currently finding ourselves in, with so much of our resource having been focused on the pandemic in recent months, and with little sign of that pressure abating in the foreseeable future. 

I look forward to hearing now from the Chairs of the scrutiny committees and from other Members who wish to speak on the Bill, and I will respond to any further points that I have not already covered in my closing remarks. Diolch, Llywydd. 

I call on the Chair of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee, John Griffiths. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm pleased to contribute to today's debate, as Chair of the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee. I'd like to thank all those who provided evidence to help inform our work, in particular tenants who attended our focus groups held right across Wales and landlords and letting agents who responded to our survey. As a committee, we continue to place a great value on lived-in experience to help inform our scrutiny. That scrutiny was paused by the pandemic, a pandemic that is shining a spotlight on the importance of having a safe and secure place to call home.

The Welsh Government has said that the heart of this Bill is the aim to improve security of tenure. Not everybody agrees this Bill will—[Inaudible.]—but, as a committee, we were convinced of the merits of this approach. We heard a range of evidence suggesting that strengthening security of tenure would have a positive impact on the well-being of those living in the private rented sector. It was also suggested that this would bring wider economic and social benefits to the community.

But, of course, not everybody agreed that this Bill was needed. Landlords and letting agents were concerned that the Bill would make letting in the private rented sector less attractive, therefore causing landlords to leave the sector and potentially place more pressure on social housing. Landlords told us they were worried they would not be able to regain possession of their property, if either their personal circumstances changed or because of contract breaches. I will come back to this point later in my remarks.

The Minister told us that she had tried to find a balance between the differing views. We believe that the correct balance has been struck, although we do call for some minor amendments, which we feel will strengthen the Bill. We therefore recommend that the Senedd supports the general principles of the Bill.

Before moving on to some of the detail from our scrutiny, it is worth noting that this is the second Bill that we have considered that seeks to amend the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016, an Act that was passed five years ago by the previous Assembly but has not yet been commenced. We understand the reasons behind the delay, which were further compounded by the pandemic. The 2016 Act is a significant piece of housing law, which will change the legal framework for renting properties, and it is a change that will affect around a third of people in Wales.

We were pleased that the Minister confirmed that she intended the 2016 Act, as amended by this Bill, if this Bill is passed, would be implemented by the autumn of next year, and, obviously, the fact that there is now further slippage in that time frame is of concern, but I hear what the Minister said in that regard.

I will then move on to some specific issues within the report. In recommendation 2 we highlight a number of areas that we believe the post-implementation review of the 2016 Act must cover—all issues that came to light during our scrutiny and that arise from the implementation of the provisions with this Bill before us, rather than the broader changes in the 2016 Act—and I'm pleased to hear what the Minister had to say on that.

A common theme throughout all of our work on housing legislation in this Senedd has been a lack of data on the private rented sector, compounded by a lack of organised groups representing tenants. This makes it difficult to ensure that policy and legislation is fully informed by accurate data and lived experience. That's why we made recommendations 3 and 4, which we believe will help address both these issues and hopefully lead to improvements in policy development and implementation, and I know the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee have also made a similar recommendation around engagement with tenants. And, again, I'm pleased that the Minister has taken these matters on board.

During our scrutiny, we considered the impacts on some specific areas of the rental market, such as students and the social housing sector. One of the areas where we have recommended changes is in relation to accommodation provided as part of a minister of religion's role. We received representations from Cytûn and the Church in Wales, highlighting some very specific issues around this type of accommodation. We agreed that the Bill should be amended to ensure that properties that are housing ministers of religion in this capacity should be exempted from the provisions within the Bill, and that led to us making recommendation 5. And I'm again pleased that the Minister will be considering these matters and working to see how they can be best addressed.

The Bill does provide for a possession notice to be withdrawn within 14 days of it being issued without the landlord then having to wait a further six months before reissuing the notice. That cooling-off period is to ensure that any administrative errors in the notice do not unduly delay matters and unduly delay repossession. We heard from landlords that 14 days is not very long in terms of identifying issues on mistakes with a notice, and that's why we agreed with them and called for the period to be extended to 28 days, and, again, I'm very pleased with the Minister's response.

As far as the courts are concerned, most of our respondents highlighted the delays within the court system, which currently cause difficulties for both landlords and tenants. We accept there is not sufficient time in the current Senedd term for substantive work to be done on seeking to address these issues, but we do believe there is merit in the Welsh Government undertaking further exploratory work on the establishment of a housing court or tribunal to identify whether this will seek to address some of these issues. As the Minister reiterated today, we know that she is personally sympathetic to theses calls, but, again, I heard her remarks and explanation today, and we'll be keeping a close eye on progress on those matters.

Finally, on homelessness—I would like to touch on the impact of this Bill on homelessness. The provisions will interact with requirements on local authorities to support those who are threatened with homelessness, and that's why we made recommendations 8 and 9, to try to ensure that in the discharge of these duties local authorities are complying with the spirit of the legislation as well as the requirements in the legislation. I heard the Minister's remarks. I know that the Minister is very committed to tackling homelessness and rough-sleeping, and I think we've all been very grateful to see the progress made during the pandemic, and indeed the announcements that sustained those improvements. And I'm sure the Minister, as she said, will address these matters in that spirit, and hopefully make sure that none of that progress is lost. Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd.

I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mick Antoniw.

Thank you, Llywydd. Our report on the Bill contains only four recommendations for the Minister, and I'll briefly outline each one. Firstly, within the legislative competence of the Senedd, the Government of Wales Act 2006 requires all provisions of a Bill to be compatible with the European convention on human rights. We asked the Minister what assessment she has made regarding the Bill's impact on human rights of both tenants and landlords. The Minister told us that there will be an impact and that ECHR rights are engaged, and she also said that any interference with those rights is justified and proportionate to the public interest. We acknowledge that the explanatory memorandum provides some further detail about the impact of the Bill on article 1, protocol 1 and article 8 of the European convention on human rights, but we have some concerns that the Minister has not provided us with the sufficient detail that we would have wanted.

Our recommendation 1 asks the Minister to publish a full analysis of the impact of the Bill's provision on human rights. Before moving on, I'd like to briefly mention recent regulations made by the Welsh Ministers in response to coronavirus to the temporarily altered existing legislative framework for the possession process and landlords' notice periods. The Coronavirus Act 2020 temporarily increased to three months the notice period a landlord in England or Wales had to give before they could ask a court for a possession order. The Minister then made the Coronavirus Act 2020 (Assured Tenancies and Assured Shorthold Tenancies, Extension of Notice Periods) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2020. They temporarily extended the notice period from three months to six months, and subsequently, on 25 September 2020, the Minister made the Coronavirus Act 2020 (Residential Tenancies: Protection from Eviction) (Wales) Regulations 2020. These regulations extend until 31 March 2021 the period during which increased notice must be given to tenants. I mention these regulations, and they have been referred to, to emphasise the importance of human rights considerations when making primary and secondary legislation. Both sets of regulations came into force less than 21 days after they were laid before the Senedd, meaning limited notice to both landlords and tenants. Our scrutiny of these regulations has drawn to the Welsh Government's attention what we consider to be an insufficient analysis regarding the competing human rights of landlords and tenants.

As regards the need for the Bill, we noted that the Welsh Government's own consultation on the proposed reforms to notice periods did not provide evidence of strong favourable support. We also noticed the Minister's suggestion there's been some reliance on using anecdotal evidence. We do acknowledge that there may be a more widespread issue about engaging with the private rented sector in Wales, however, on a general point of principle, the Minister's evidence base is weakened by the informality of the data and the committee did not consider it good practice to rely on such evidence as grounds for changing primary legislation.

Our recommendation 2 asks that the Welsh Government increases its engagement and develops more formal links with contract holders in the private rented sector in Wales. This should facilitate more robust data gathering from this sector to better inform legislative proposals. And I welcome the Minister's acceptance of this particular recommendation.

Recommendation 3 in our report was linked to the limitations of the evidence base. We have welcomed the Minister's intention to review the implementation of the Bill as part of the planned evaluation of the 2016 Act. As a committee, we have general concerns about the proliferation of the statute book as it applies in Wales. As such, we recommended that the planned evaluation of the 2016 Act should consider the potential urgency for the full consolidation of Welsh housing law. Again, I welcome the acceptance of this in principle by the Minister and also recognise that, clearly, this is a matter now for a future Assembly.

Moving to our final recommendation, we noted that the Ministry of Justice agrees with the Welsh Government that the overall impact of the Bill on case load for the courts system in Wales is likely to be negligible over time. Nonetheless, the Minister accepts that the Bill is also to cause an increase in the number of claims requiring hearings from private landlords. Potential delays to court proceedings must be avoided. The courts system should not result in high costs being incurred and timely resolution is important to mitigate the impact the Bill will have on the landlord's right to access their own property. So, our fourth recommendation—and we consider this to be a particularly important recommendation, again for a future Assembly—and that is to investigate the need for a dedicated housing tribunal in Wales. Such a tribunal could, amongst other things, consider possession claims made by landlords. We recommend that the result of this investigation should be reported to the Senedd and that this should be a matter that carries over certainly into the next Assembly as well. Diolch, Llywydd.

I call on the Chair of the Finance Committee, Llyr Gruffydd.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. I'm very pleased to contribute to this debate as Chair of the Finance Committee. We had expected to hear evidence from the Minister back in March on this issue but, of course, we had to postpone that session as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. Instead, we wrote to the Minister, seeking information about the financial implications of the Bill in case we were unable to reschedule an evidence session before the reporting deadline for Stage 1. But, as that deadline was extended, we were able to hear from the Minister and we are grateful to her for that.

The committee notes that the Bill will amend the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016 to provide greater security of tenure for contract holders who rent, particularly those in the private rented sector, by extending the period of notice the landlord must give from two to six months, when the contract holder is not at fault.

We note that reforms are also being made in the rest of the UK in this area. In the Queen's Speech in December of last year, the UK Government included a proposed Renters' Reform Bill, which will abolish the use of no-fault evictions. In Scotland, the Private Housing (Tenancies) (Scotland) Act 2016 created a new type of private rental tenancy in Scotland, which ended no-fault evictions and created 18 grounds under which a landlord can end a tenancy.

The overall net cost of the Bill, as reported in the regulatory impact assessment, falls within the range of £9.5 million and £13 million. We are broadly content with the evidence provided by the Minister, and therefore we have no issues to report on the financial implications of the Bill.

I speak as the Member who represented the Conservative group on the Stage 1 proceedings, and subbed on to the equality and local government committee for that purpose, but I'm no longer the housing spokesperson, and my colleague Mark Isherwood will speak officially for the group later.

Can I say that I'm very pleased to agree the general principles of this Bill? I think, with other measures that have been referred to, it should provide a stronger and more efficient market for the private rented sector in particular, and it seeks to strike a balance between tenants—who are now often called 'generation rent'—and landlords. And generation rent, if I can take that to mean people in the private rented sector, is now something like 20 per cent of the population in housing terms, which is really quite a remarkable shift from the 1980s, when much of the law that we have sought to reform during this Senedd was first enacted to revive, really, the rental sector, which had gone into the doldrums through over-control at the time. So, it is a rebalancing; it's happening in England, it's happening in Scotland, and that's why, when I was the Conservative spokesperson—and a policy that continues—the Conservative group was pleased to broadly support these reforms to the rental sector. And can I say what a pleasure it was to work with the equality and local government committee and the Members—it was very constructive—and, more recently, I've also been on the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, and, again, I'm pleased with the diligence that's been applied to this Bill. And I indeed note, as others have, the similar recommendations in some respects between those two committees.

I do want to make some specific points, but let me just say first of all that I think the consolidation of housing law is something much to be desired. We know the Welsh Government is committed to consolidating law. It has been one of the things we thought that the Senedd could do, or start to do, when it acquired primary lawmaking powers, and ensure that we didn't have the sort of cluttered statute book that exists in other jurisdictions, and that housing was a really good area of public law to start with, because it's so important in terms of people's lives, but also it was law that needed reforming and it is very systematic; they relate to each other. This Bill actually amends a 2016 Act, so An act of the fourth Assembly, as we've heard, which will not actually be commenced until the sixth Senedd. I do think it's a bit of a record for something to be passed in a fourth Parliament and not to be enacted—commenced, rather—until a sixth Parliament, and it is really not very good practice, even—. I mean, there are some reasons in COVID to explain the extension to this inordinate delay, but most of the inordinate delay has been caused by other factors, which I think the Welsh Government should have been more attentive about. But, anyway, that's a sour note and I want to be mostly positive in my remarks. 

If I can turn to the Stage 1 committee report, I would highlight the following: the need for better data of the private rented sector again has already been referred to, and I'm pleased the Minister has accepted that recommendation. As I said, it's 20 per cent of housing now, and we do just need better data and we need better liaison with private sector tenants. We have excellent connections over many decades with those in the social sector, and it's a harder sector—it's more fragmented, the private sector tenants—but we need to get better evidence from them. The Bill does need to have certain improvements made, and I'm sure my colleague Mark Isherwood might speak to some of this as well, but we would have pushed very strongly for the extension of the withdrawal and then reissue notice that landlords have to apply from 14 to 28 days, but I'm delighted the Minister's actually accepted that recommendation and so, presumably, there won't be a need for our own amendment on that. 

So, I do think, finally, as this completes a series of reforms to the private rented sector, that, as we've moved from no-fault evictions, in effect, to evictions for a cause, the landlord's right to an effective process is really important. And that's why the two committees have made this point about the need for landlords to be able to access efficient and low-cost procedure, and possibly that would best be done via housing tribunal. And I do hope that will be seriously looked at in the sixth Senedd, which I will not be a Member of, but I would urge Members who are elected to that to look at that particular part, because it is part of the balancing, and landlords do have a right to reclaim their property and there must be a process that's efficient for them to do so when there is cause. 

It's a pleasure to follow David Melding in this debate. Plaid Cymru supports the general principles of this Bill, but we don't believe that the Government has gone far enough. We of course endorse the recommendations of the committee reports, and thank the Chair and the committee clerks for their support in the evidence gathering that led to our recommendations in that report. It's worth highlighting, as David Melding has just done, that the Bill amends an Act that hasn't yet been implemented, the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016. And as the committee has noted as well, having this significant gap between a Bill becoming law and being implemented is rare and regrettable. If we've learnt anything this year, it's that inaction and lethargy by Government isn't conducive to good public service, and I hope that that lesson has been learned from the experience. But that is a sour note and I hope to be more positive in some of these remarks. 

It's clear that although the Bill extends the period before no-fault evictions are allowed, it does represent a climb-down by the Government, as the current First Minister, of course, pledged a complete ban during his leadership campaign. Now, that's something that we, as Plaid Cymru, will want to return to in later stages. The extended notice period is a start, and the Government has justified extending the period to six months because the previous two months' notice was not enough time for tenants to secure alternative accommodation in the same community or area as their child attends a school. It's not enough time to arrange changes to care packages, to save up to cover the costs of the move and plan for a move around tenants' everyday lives, including employment and family commitments. 

Now, I think the first point there is possibly the most persuasive: why should the education and personal development of any child be sacrificed? Because, too often in this country, we regard property as an investment and privilege the rights of landlords over the rights of children to enjoy a stable childhood. Six months is an improvement—it, in effect, guarantees a tenancy for a year—but I'd still question whether it would always be enough time. In rural areas, or in Valleys communities, there's often a shortage of suitable accommodation. So, even six months' notice may not be enough time for a family to find another property that enables their child to stay in the same school.

Llywydd, we really do need to put this legislation in context. If it passes unamended, tenants in Wales will continue to have fewer protections against no-fault evictions than in Scotland and, indeed, in England, where the proposed legislation is for a complete ban on no-fault evictions. The question really has to be: why the rollback? The Government has said that a complete ban would breach human rights, but, if that is the case, why haven't any wealthy landlord associations taken the Scottish Government to court? 

Now, the Government has also said that landlords should be able to get their property back, for example, if they only own one property and face homelessness themselves. Now, in those circumstances, of course we'd want protection, but there will still be a range of other reasons where a landlord could take this course of action. All we want to see is that a good tenant who pays rent and looks after the property has their right to a stable family life protected, and an extra four months of protection from no-fault evictions simply doesn't go far enough for that. We should end no-fault evictions, like the First Minister promised. We should have a policy of supporting tenants to become home owners by establishing mechanisms where they can buy the home from landlords who want to leave the market, and also fund housing associations to take over properties from landlords who want to leave the market. Because even the landlord associations agree that we should be driving poor landlords out, and the past 20 years have simply seen too many poor landlords. And the perception, encouraged by the media, that property is a get-rich-quick scheme—that has to end. A house is someone's home first and foremost; it shouldn't be seen as an asset, a means of accumulating wealth, especially not on the back of other people's poverty.

So, there's much in this Bill that we do welcome, but there's a lot more that we'd like to see the Government doing and we will be pushing this at later stages. Diolch.

I'm grateful to the Minister for her statement today and for consideration of the general principles of this Bill. I'd like to place on record my thanks to the committees that reported on this Bill. The reports are balanced and interesting.

Once again, I'll declare an interest. I am what I call an accidental landlord—I inherited my father's house and I now rent the property out to a local family. By doing so, I am partly providing for my old age and topping up my pension. I know that others rent out inherited properties solely to pay back care home fees owed to councils. I've registered with Rent Smart Wales, the property is managed by an agent, the fees went up by 1 per cent when the Renting Homes (Fees etc.) (Wales) Act 2019 came in. I have to fill in a tax return. It's a real responsibility and it feels too often like a millstone. I'm telling you this, because I get the feeling that policy makers and some in this Chamber have a view of landlords that is stuck somewhere in the 1970s and 1980s—rich, uncaring people who are happy to count their money while their tenants live in squalor. That's definitely not the case in a lot of circumstances.

But, over a couple of decades now, ordinary people have been told to save for their old age and many have seen fit to invest their money in property. And then austerity arrives and landlords are taxed and regulated, they pay more and have to jump through more hoops than ever. So, for the owners of just one buy-to-let property, it's really quite onerous and becoming less and less attractive as an option. It may be different for, you know, portfolio holders.

I won't labour here now how messy this suite of legislation is, with amendments being made to the housing Act that is yet to come into effect; both committees have raised this point with you. I do think it's worth making the point, though, that people need to have confidence in the legislation being developed here in this Senedd and in its intention and effect. I've got no difficulty in taking steps to enable tenants to feel more secure and to be more secure in their rented homes. As Delyth said, you know, they are their homes. They pay for the privilege of living in that property; they ought to have some security of tenure. And I understand how difficult it can be when a landlord needs the property back and there are family ties to the areas and schools to take into account. I have to admit, though, that I read with some consternation that any human rights infringement of the landlords' rights is deemed okay and their needs and rights are deemed subservient to those of the tenant. I'll give you two examples: constituent A forms a new relationship and moves in with her new partner. She rents out her house. Her relationship breaks up, she cannot gain access to her own home because of this law. She's homeless until she has served the relevant notices. Example: constituent B is diagnosed with a terminal illness. He wants to liquidate all of his assets to do all of the things on his now very urgent bucket list. He can't because he needs to serve relevant notices. That poor man may die while he's waiting. How is this fair?

You mention in your evidence to a committee that the majority of landlords are good landlords, so what are you trying to fix here? Also, the premise of the Bill seems to be biased on anecdotal evidence, as previously said, largely through constituency casework. I do find that very worrying. The Bill appears predicated on a model tenant paying their rent and looking after the property, when we all know that this is not always the case. I've seen quite a few cases like that, thankfully not on my own property but through my agents. Many landlords have had to deal with rogue tenants who pay nothing or wreck the property, or refuse to leave when they are supposed to. This sort of thing can ruin people's lives. So, I'm glad that consideration of court processes has taken place. Renting out property is looking more and more like one-way traffic, with all the rights with the tenants and all of the liabilities with the landlord. This does not make for a vibrant private rented sector, so I think it's imperative that some goodwill is shown and that where court or tribunal processes are needed, that this is quick and efficient. So, I think a better balance can and could be struck, Minister. If not, private landlords, as also said before, will vote with their feet, and more pressure will be brought to bear on an already struggling housing market if they leave that market. Thank you.

Huw Irranca-Davies. Huw Irranca-Davies, we can't hear you at the moment. You seem to know that we do want to hear you.

Sorry, Presiding Officer, the little button just came through to allow me to speak.

Okay. Carry on.

Thank you very much. Could I first of all, as a member of the committee, just thank my colleagues on the committee and the Chair, and also the witnesses, for what has been some really, really interesting and thorough, as this committee always does, evidence that we've taken, trying to get this balance right on the security of tenure for tenants and, also, the balance of rights for landlords as well? And, in speaking on this debate, strongly, I have to say, in support not only of the general principles, but of getting on with this for reasons I'll come to in a moment, I also declare an interest because I am a landlord myself. I've been a tenant many times as I've moved around the country. I'm a landlord, a bit like Mandy was saying, by accident—it's family circumstance. I think there'll be lots of my constituents who are in the same boat, who, perhaps through bereavement, perhaps through a bequest or whatever, have a single property.

But where I would disagree with Mandy is I actually think the proposals within the Bill are broadly correct. I look forward to further debate on this, but I think they're broadly correct, because what we've had for a long, long time is an undue balance towards the power of the landlord, and there are lots of good landlords out there, but tenants have been powerless and, on this secure tenancy, we've made such great strides in Wales, not least with the rent smart approach, which I think has really caused a lot of landlords to step up to the mark and take seriously the responsibilities. But this Bill, I have to say, takes it further as well, but I look forward to the wider debates coming forward on it.

But, Minister, I'm going to give you a slight curve ball, because whilst I agree entirely with what the committee has brought forward and many of David Melding's remarks and others here today and the Chair of the committee, I want to take to a slightly left-field issue, and it's to do with what else this Bill will do. And the reason I say this is because I just want to thank Electrical Safety First for sitting down with me virtually and going through some of their big support for this Bill, I have to say, because they want to see this taken through at a rate of knots and being put in place, but also what they see this doing in terms of the fitness for human habitation measures that were found in the original Renting Homes (Wales) Act and what this could now do, actually, for electrical safety if we get on with it and if we do it right. The background to this, of course—by the way, Minister, I have to say I'm hoping for a positive response from you, because the key external affairs person for Electrical Safety First in Wales happens to live in my own town, so they've been knocking on my door—is because, of course, we know that 62 per cent of domestic fires are caused by electricity, and this Bill carries significance in the human habitation measures not only for social landlords and for private landlords, but also for what it does in terms of that wider issue of safety. So, the asks in terms of electrical safety are, one, from the ESF that Members of the Senedd support this Bill and that any delays, frankly, to ensuring that electrical safety checks, which are part of these human habitation measures, are not delayed any further, that they're implemented as soon as possible. They do ask as well, Minister, that the Welsh Government actually produces some clear timeline on implementation for the mandatory electrical safety checks that we're still waiting for, and I think this progressing fast will allow us to do this. I wonder if the Minister would be able to respond to that issue around the timeline for those safety checks, as well, but, of course, not waiting to do this, because meanwhile, actually getting on with vulnerable home owners having home safety visits by the established mechanisms of fire and rescue services, and that they provide references to care and repair services, for example, where there are electrical hazards identified, needs to be resolved as well.

So, Minister, I'm fully supportive in speaking in the general principles debate on this Bill. I don't see the difficulty in bringing forward these measures before the whole Bill that we've put in place has been enacted. It's very unusual, I have to say, but I think it's right, because we've spotted things that do need to be dealt with, but, in doing so, can we also look at those issues around the fitness for human habitation measures, and particularly those within electrical safety, because we know it leads to deaths? If we can get this right, we will be saving lives as well as dealing with this issue of the balance of security of tenure for tenants and with landlords. Thank you very much.

As the Welsh Government's explanatory memorandum to this Bill states,

'The private rented sector (“PRS”) plays an important part in meeting the housing needs of the people of Wales' and

'the Welsh Government wishes to ensure there is the right balance of support and regulation in the PRS'.

However, given the increasing dependency of people on the private rented sector for housing, a fine balance must be struck to protect both parties in these arrangements and avoid unintended consequences that run counter to this goal. Tenants, of course, need the security of a good home and a responsible landlord, but landlords also need the security of responsible tenants. The majority of landlords are individuals who let out one or two properties. Many of these rely on that income for their day-to-day living expenses, or to provide pensions. Any actions that drive decent landlords out of the sector and reduce the housing stock available for rent would be detrimental to tenants in the long run.

Whilst the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee recommends the general principles of this Bill should be agreed, it also acknowledges that there was a clear split in opinion as to whether the legislation was required. The Bill's explanatory memorandum states that the overarching aim of the Bill is to improve security of tenure for those who rent their homes in Wales. However, responses to the Welsh Government's consultation were mixed. Although 70 per cent of contract holders in this sector who responded were supportive of the main proposal to extend the notice period for section 173 evictions to six months, and 78 per cent were supportive of the proposal to prevent an eviction notice from being served within the first six months of a new occupation contract, 94 per cent of private landlords who responded were against the former, and 92 per cent of letting agents were against the latter. Notwithstanding this divergence in opinion, we will support the general principles of the Bill to provide greater security for people who rent their homes in Wales. However, we do also acknowledge the concerns of landlords about the impact that these reforms may have on their ability to protect their incomes, remove bad tenants as a last resort, and ensure that they can take possession of the property in exceptional circumstances, such as needing to move in themselves.

As the National Residential Landlords Association stated in written evidence to committee,

'Landlords do not go to court without good reason and prefer to keep good tenants in their homes.'

ARLA Propertymark, the professional and regulatory body for letting agents, states that letting property will become less viable for landlords under the Bill's current proposals, where there's no,

'straightforward means to regain the property quickly when things go wrong.'

They note in consequence that there will be fewer privately rented homes, ultimately leaving tenants with less choice of where to live, increasing rents and forcing landlords to become more risk averse and only choose to house the lowest risk tenants. In order to make the legislation workable, they state that the Bill must be amended to include four mandatory grounds for repossession: when the landlord intends to sell the property, intends to move into the property, intends to move a family member into the property, and where a mortgage lender needs to regain the property. It is noted that although the UK Government's proposed abolition of no-fault evictions in England went further than the Welsh Government's Bill, its Renters' Reform Bill gives landlords more rights to gain possession of their property through the courts, where there is a legitimate need for them to do so, by reforming current legislation. The UK Government have also said that they will work to improve the court process for landlords to make it quicker and easier for them to get their property back sooner.

In light of this Bill's unintended consequences, the NRLA have sought to develop constructive compromises that seek to balance the needs of both landlords and tenants, and I welcome the Minister's acceptance of one of those already. For example, in addition, allowing for a six-month section 173 no-fault eviction notice to be served after four months but take effect at the end of the six-month fixed term, giving tenants more notice and the landlord flexibility; and amending the minimum contract length to 12 months, but allowing a six-month tenant-only break if the landlord and tenant agree so at the outset of the contract.

I also, listening to the previous contribution, note the call by Electrical Safety First for the Welsh Government to implement as quickly as possible the requirements in the original legislation for landlords to ensure any dwellings let are fit for human habitation, including mandatory electrical safety checks. Diolch.

Caroline Jones.

No, Llywydd, I haven't put in to speak in this debate, diolch. Sorry.

Excellent. Don't take that personally; it's just that it's approaching 8 o'clock, and that's music to my ears—one fewer speaker. That brings us to the Minister to respond to the debate.

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I start once more by giving my thanks to John, Llyr and Mick for their constructive and helpful remarks this evening and also, once more, for the work of their respective committees, which we're very grateful for? And, as I said at the outset, I'm very appreciative of the enormous amount of hard work in very difficult circumstances that's gone on, and particularly grateful to Llyr, as he mentioned having gone through a relatively unusual procedure to get through the various stages of scrutiny. So I'm very grateful to people for having done that. I'm also very grateful to all the other Members who have spoken during today's debate.

I just want to make one or two remarks in response to various comments Members have made. I won't have time to go through all of them, Llywydd, but I just want to start by saying that it is important to isolate the COVID regulations from the amendment Bill in front of us today. I think a number of Members did conflate one or two of the issues. I'm very happy to do a briefing session later on for Members on the differences between the two.

In terms of some of the issues that a number of Members raised about the ability of the courts to cope, we are expecting a wide reduction in social landlord possession cases as a result of a number of agreements we've made with social landlords in Wales, and that will free up a number of court resources to accommodate any increase in hearings that's due to this Bill, although we are not expecting that to happen.

Just in terms of the Scottish situation, a number of people seem to be under the impression that Scotland has done something that we are not doing, but just to be clear, this amendment Bill guarantees six months' notice when the tenant is not at fault. This is not the case in Scotland, where a tenant not at fault can be evicted with as little as 28 days' notice, for example, where a landlord wants to sell the house that the tenant is occupying, and the tenant need not have committed any fault in their occupation of that house in order for that to be effective. So that is not the case, Llywydd, and I think it's very important for Members to understand that. 

There are a number of other things that Members have raised around the evidence, and so on, but all of the thrusts were the same. The evidence that we have is that only two months' notice is currently required to be given and, without the amendment Act, that will remain in place. That's clearly not sufficient to find a new home or new schools for your children, and so on, and so this will give tenants much longer to be able to do that and, of course, it's not able to be served in the first six months, so it gives everyone at least one year's security of tenure. So I think it is very important to say that.

I also want to assure Members that we continue to work closely with all our stakeholders, from the landlord sector and with those who represent the interests of contract holders in Wales, as we move into the next stage of the scrutiny process. And Llywydd, you can tell from the various contributions across the floor that we are being criticised by people who feel we are harsh on the landlords and criticised by people who feel we haven't taken tenants' rights into account, and therefore I feel very strongly that we seem to be hitting the balance that we talked about so much as part of this process.

I should add in closing that, in addition to the Government amendments that I've committed to bringing forward in response to committee recommendations today, there will also be a number of Government amendments at Stage 2 to correct some technical matters, both in this Bill and in the 2016 Act, which it amends. None of these are significant, by which I mean they will not change the scope of the legislation nor the overall policy it seeks to deliver, and I will ensure that Members are fully briefed in terms of the purpose and effect of those amendments when we bring them forward.

I mentioned in my opening remarks my disappointment in having to delay the implementation of the amended Act to early 2022, however, in an attempt to end on a more positive note, I can honestly say that I think that it will be some achievement on all our parts if we're able to complete the remaining work necessary to get this Bill onto the statute book before this term ends, and I very much look forward to continuing to engage with Members of all parties in the constructive spirit that has characterised our work on this important Bill thus far. Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd.

The proposal is to agree the motion under item 9. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, I see that there are objections to that and that motion under item 9 is deferred until voting time. 

Voting deferred until voting time.

As voting on the general principles of the Renting Homes (Amendment) Wales Bill has been deferred until voting time, I will also defer the vote on the financial resolution until voting time. 

Voting deferred until voting time.

And that brings us to voting time, and we will now take a break of five minutes before we move to the vote.

Plenary was suspended at 20:05.

The Senedd reconvened at 20:11, with the Llywydd in the Chair.