Group 7 is our next group of amendments, and it relates to local authority officers and members. The lead amendment is 119, and I call on Mark Isherwood to move that amendment and to speak to the other amendments in the group. Mark Isherwood. 

Mark Isherwood, can you unmute yourself, or be unmuted? Yes. There we go. 

I was waiting for the 'unmute' button, which finally arrived. Thank you. 

Thank you. 

Amendment 119 (Mark Isherwood) moved.

Amendment 119 seeks to reintroduce provisions to require principal councils to prepare and publish arrangements for the performance management system of the chief executive. There seems to be a lot of confusion around what 'performance management system' means, but it's actually about supporting employees at every level to their mutual and your mutual interest. 

During Stage 2 proceedings, Welsh Government amendments removed the duty on principal councils to make and publish arrangements for managing the performance of the chief executive of the council. The Minister argued that this was because concerns were raised about the potential for the provision to give licence for individual performance and capability matters to be played out in public. And, of course, that would be completely unacceptable. However, this amendment focuses on how the performance management of a chief executive is to be carried out. It makes it clear that performance management systems incorporate, but are not limited to, annual appraisals, and that the performance management system for chief executives must consider other appropriate methods.

Performance management systems are essential to the effective working of any organisation. However, they're only ever truly effective if they incorporate all employees, including their chief executives. This good practice in human resource management is, by definition, conducted in private as part of a continuous process in which appraisals only play a small part at a snapshot in time. Organisations that fail to provide these performance management systems fail to support, motivate and empower their employees by both acknowledging what works well and what they've done well, but also agreeing with them what needs to be done differently and then supporting them to achieve that. This amendment is therefore essential to this Bill's stated intentions, and not to include this would be to the detriment of any employee in any organisation so affected. 

I'm afraid I cannot support amendment 119, relating to the performance management of chief executives. The duty on principal councils to make and publish arrangements for managing the performance of the chief executive of the council was removed from the Bill at Stage 2. The decision to remove the provisions was taken after listening carefully to the evidence provided during Stage 1. Solace and the WLGA expressed deep concern about the level of prescription within the provision, which was reinforced by further discussions with these stakeholders prior to Stage 2. As I set out at Stage 2 in the committee, I would expect the new self and panel assessment approach to performance and governance set out in the Bill to explore the leadership of the organisation and its effectiveness. I'm therefore unable to support the amendment.

The amendments I have tabled in this group are minor and technical. Amendment 75 refines the instruction that states where, within the text being amended, the amendments provided for by paragraph 6 of Schedule 8 should be inserted, whilst amendment 80 removes a consequential amendment to the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011, which is rendered unnecessary by section 54. Diolch. 

Mark Isherwood, do you wish to respond to the debate?

Yes, please. 

Yes, carry on then. 

Unmute. Yes. Well, prior to being elected to the Senedd, I spent over two decades managing teams of people within performance management structures. This was hugely motivational for them. It helped me greatly, as someone managing them from behind, recognising that I did not have a monopoly of wisdom or power, but that, collectively, we could unlock the strengths of all to our mutual benefit and to our shared corporate goals. That is how the best organisations in all sectors work. It is to the benefit of all employees. And in my organisation, as in virtually every other organisation I came into contact with, including when I was a voluntary board member of external organisations on an unpaid basis, the chief executive was always part of that process, and was grateful for it, as it enabled problems to be nipped in the bud before they became serious, and it ensured real partnership between the employee at every level and those managing with them to ensure that corporate governance maximised its potential, addressed problems rapidly, but, more to the point, supported people to grow, to develop, to operate effectively, with real delegated powers, but accountable in the right way to their colleagues and peers and those working with them at every level. 

I'm very surprised and very disappointed that Members may not grasp that this system is essential to the effective working of any organisation, and that not to have it is to constrain the performance of that organisation, no matter how good the people within it might be.

The question is to agree amendment 119. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. We will therefore move to a vote on amendment 119. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 20, three abstentions and 27 against, and therefore the amendment is not agreed. 

Amendment 119: For: 20, Against: 27, Abstain: 3

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 80 is our next amendment, in the name of the Minister.

Amendment 80 (Julie James) moved.

That's been moved. Any objections to amendment 80? [Objection.] Yes—Gareth Bennett has objected. We will therefore open the vote on amendment 80. Close the vote, therefore. In favour 44, seven abstentions, none against. And therefore the amendment is agreed.

Amendment 80: For: 44, Against: 0, Abstain: 7

Amendment has been agreed

And at that point, we will take a short break. We will sort out any technical problems, and Members will have some time. We will try and recommence in about 20 minutes, at around 7.05 p.m.. Thank you.

Plenary was suspended at 18:45.

The Senedd reconvened at 19:09, with the Llywydd in the Chair.