The next item is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport on the Welsh Government's response to the South East Wales Transport Commission's final recommendations. I call on the Deputy Minister to make the statement, Lee Waters.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to update the Senedd on our response to the recommendations made by the South East Wales Transport Commission.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

The Welsh Government, along with Transport for Wales, have now completed an initial review of all the recommendations made by Lord Burns and his fellow commissioners. And, again, we thank them for their work. Today, we have published a line-by-line response so that we are completely clear on the status of each of the recommendations. It's a bold and practical set of recommendations, and they can only be achieved by a range of bodies working together in partnership. And in that spirit, I want to reiterate the Welsh Government's commitment to work with the local authority, local representatives, the UK Government and other key partners to deliver the Burns commission blueprint.

At its heart, the recommendations set out a vision for the modern public transport system that a city the size of Newport has a right to expect. And as we've indicated in our Wales transport strategy, it's the sort of vision we have for the whole of Wales. The difficult debate over the right solution for tackling congestion around Newport has acted as a catalyst for a broader change. The Burns report has helped to steer us onto a llwybr newydd, a new path, and for this reason I'm happy to confirm that we will accept in principle all of the recommendations.

The new Wales transport strategy sets out a powerful case for a shift towards an integrated, low-carbon and multimodal metro transport network across Wales, and the Burns commission report sets out a blueprint for implementing that vision, though a regional approach to transport and land use planning. It sets out a package of measures to tackle congestion on the M4 around Newport in a way that also helps tackle climate change, improving air quality and advancing social justice. The recommendations of the commission cover all modes of transport, and therefore the responsibility for implementing them needs to be shared. The UK Government, the Welsh Government and Newport City Council all have important roles to play, as does Transport for Wales and Network Rail.  

We have, Llywydd, already signed a memorandum of understanding with Newport City Council to jointly steer forward the way for bus and active travel measures in the city, supported by Transport for Wales. The union connectivity review, led by Sir Peter Hendy, provides the vehicle for the UK Government to provide an early commitment to delivering on the recommendations in non-devolved areas. I have today written to the Secretary of State for Transport and to Network Rail, highlighting the solid reasoning why the rail network in this region needs to be levelled up to be comparable to other parts of the UK. For too long, Wales has been at the back of the queue when the UK Government has been investing in rail infrastructure, but this is a positive opportunity for the UK Government to make good on their underinvestment. And I look forward to working in partnership with them to put that right and to deliver this vision.

The commission has made recommendations across five packages: infrastructure; network policies; behaviour change; transport governance; and land use and planning. Our line-by-line response identifies where action is already being taken and where it can be taken in future to develop them further. There are a number of particular points that I would like to highlight today and to be clear on how we intend to take them forward.

The first is to enhance the south Wales main line and triple the number of stations in the region. Using the Burns report, my officials have already engaged in positive discussions with Network Rail and the UK Department for Transport on the proposals for this non-devolved asset. Our intention is to work further with Network Rail on these recommendations specifically, as well as the wider work of improving the main line, and TfW will play a vital role as our agent for this. A dedicated development unit has now been established within Transport for Wales. This unit will provide advice to a steering group and, ultimately, to Welsh Ministers on progress against all of the recommendations.

Members will have already seen, in the table published today, that many of the measures recommended by Lord Burns are in progress already in some shape or form. Where this is the case, the development unit are now tasked with monitoring progress, and reporting to the steering group if intervention is required to push things along.

Using the evidence base provided by Lord Burns and the commissioners, I'm keen to carry out a rapid prioritisation exercise to identify measures that the development unit can play an active role in progressing at pace. For example, I believe that, working with Newport council, we can select priority bus and active travel measures for the development unit to work on detailed design and consultation, so that we can move quickly to implementation decisions. Preparing for the longer term, the unit has been instructed to develop in more detail a potential delivery programme for each of the recommendations.

Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, recognising the pivotal role of the development unit's steering group, I am keen to appoint a suitably experienced chair to lead forward progress, and I will provide further updates in due course to inform Members on this and how the wider commission's recommendations are progressing. Dirprwy Lywydd, it's been a difficult journey to get to this point, but I hope the Burns report and our response to it shows a way forward, which can both tackle congestion and tackle climate change, whilst improving the lives and life chances of the people of south-east Wales and beyond. Diolch.

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for his statement today? And also my own thanks to Lord Burns and the commissioners for their recommendations also. And I should also like to thank Lord Burns and Peter McDonald from the commission secretariat for attending the EIS committee last week, which I thought was particularly helpful.

From my perspective, Deputy Minister, the volume of traffic in Wales is generally increasing year on year. I and my party welcome the recommendations set out in the commission's report; I'll put that on the table very clearly now as well. But I do believe that, of course, the recommendations are no substitute for an M4 relief road—to be clear on that also. It is my view that the recommendations, mainly, shouldn't be carried out in isolation; they should be carried out alongside the creation of an M4 relief road. 

In evidence last week, the committee heard from Lord Burns, and he referred to some—when he was asked—scepticism amongst stakeholders about whether any of the recommendations would see the light of day. Now, I understand why there would be that scepticism. Do you understand why there would be that scepticism, and have you had that scepticism presented to you also? And what would you say to those who have that sceptical view? 

In terms of the recommendations, you've set out in your statement today that the delivery unit will look at those in detail and come back to you in terms of priorities. That I understand clear enough, but perhaps you could set out yourself what you feel are the initial early recommendations that you think should be adopted and be worked on yourself, ahead of receiving that from the delivery unit. There was lots of mention about the delivery unit and also the steering group. I think you were quite clear on that, but I just would like you to be a bit clearer in terms of who you are charging to implement the recommendations. There is this talk of both groups; whose job will it be to liaise with the stakeholders that you've mentioned? If you could also tell us a little bit more about the governance of the delivery unit—I know you referred to the chair being appointed—a little bit more about the governance, the funding of that delivery unit and its remit—will they have a remit letter? Because, clearly, it looks like the delivery unit will be a body in place over the next five to 10 years. And also, perhaps, how you will take forward the recommendations on behavioural change in particular, alongside or in parallel with the infrastructure recommendations.

There's the Welsh Government's on home working of 30 per cent; clearly, there's been change in travelling patterns during 2020, so how do you feel that the commission has taken those into account in its work? The increase in home working during the pandemic, I don't think should be seen as an excuse for delay on putting these recommendations into practice, I'd hope you would agree with that, but I do agree with Lord Burns when he says that there is breathing space now because of the pandemic, because there isn't that pressure on the road, so it's about using that breathing space correctly, in the right way, so perhaps you could tell me if you agree with that perspective.

Increasing behavioural change is a must, and the recommendation with which I have the most concern is the parking levy that's mentioned. My concern would be, although this parking levy would be on employers, not employees, effectively, there'd be a knock-on effect that, in effect, employees would be paying for those charges themselves. I'd welcome further views on that.

And finally, in terms of the financial impacts, the First Minister previously indicated that the first call on the Welsh Government for that £1 billion would be for these kinds of improvements. A lot has happened since then, of course, and the First Minister also cited that the costs were a major factor in terms of the recommendations. The commission have said that the costs of the recommendations are going to be somewhere between £600 million and £800 million spend over 10 years. Do you think that represents good value for money? How does that take into account the other needs of the Welsh Government or a future Welsh Government in terms of dealing with the pandemic?

Thank you. Well, a range of questions there. I'm glad that the Welsh Conservatives welcome the recommendations. Russell George asks about scepticism about the delivery, and, of course, I understand that, because Welsh Governments have been planning to tackle congestion in Newport for some time, and the congestion is still there, so there's certainly room for us to jump into that void and show that action will be taken. Of course, I must point out to Russell George that if we had the funding that Wales deserves for railway infrastructure, then we would be able to take action much quicker, so I think it's only fair that he recognises the shortcomings of the UK Government there, because based on the known commitments for the period of 2019 to 2029, we estimate a shortfall of investment in Wales of up to £5 billion in the next 10 years. That's from published commitments of the UK Government in England over that period, and if we had a pro rata share for Wales. Five billion pounds we're being short-changed, not to mention the failure to deliver on the electrification of the south Wales railway line, so an awful lot of delivery and scepticism could have been overcome if the UK Government was actually delivering on its rhetoric of levelling up. So, I think it's only fair that that is recognised, just as I recognise that the Welsh Government has not been quick enough to do what it said it was going to do on tackling congestion. So, I think there's room for both of us to reflect there, on things that could have been done better.

In terms of early priorities, he asks—I think, as I mentioned in the statement, we certainly think in terms of the bus network and the active travel network there are things that we can do within a period of a year or so. We all know that transport changes on the ground take time and have to go through a whole range of processes, but we do think that the changes to the south Wales main line, some infrastructure improvements for Newport bus so that people find bus a realistic alternative to the car—we've got to make buses go quicker, not be snarled up in traffic, and similarly getting people out of cars and using their bike or to travel by foot to do everyday journeys. So, there are some real, practical things that can be done there that will make a difference and be able to show people in Newport that progress is being made on the ground. That certainly is going to be an early priority for the delivery unit, which is the next question Russell George asked me about: who is in charge of delivery?

Well, we recognise, as I say, this is a shared responsibility, but we also recognise that Newport council, like all councils, have capacity constraints. So, we are creating a joint delivery unit through Transport for Wales, the Welsh Government and Newport council. That will sit within TfW primarily, but with a memorandum of understanding with Newport council, which we've already signed. The stakeholders—he asked—will be liaised with through a group and we want a dynamic chair of that to be able to push things forward and hold TfW's feet to the fire.

In terms of the funding and the remit letter, that'll be covered within TfW's existing arrangements, but, as he said, a commitment has been made by the First Minister that money will be found to implement this. He asked whether or not we thought this was value for money. Well, I will point out this is less than half the cost of the M4, without any of the damaging environmental impacts, which cannot—a price cannot be put on losing the unique Gwent levels, for example, nor, though perhaps it's easier to quantify financially, the economic harm caused by increasing climate change impacts from increasing traffic, which we would have seen through the induced demand released by building a six-mile motorway. There's plenty of evidence to show that is pretty likely. So, I think we can say this represents very good value for money. 

He also asks about behaviour change, and, of course, our draft Wales transport strategy has modal shift at its heart, and behaviour change is a key component of that, although he sniffs then at the role that behavioural disincentives play in achieving behaviour change, and no doubt he spots a campaigning opportunity to make hay on any particular parking levy. But I would say that all the evidence shows that, if you are going to achieve behaviour change, you need both carrot and stick, and it's my view that we should put the carrot in before we put the stick in, but, as part of a spectrum of interventions, disincentives play their part. And it's all very well for him to welcome the recommendations and want to see the changes, but if he's not prepared to back that then those are rather hollow words. So, I hope that answers the questions that Russell George poses. 

I'd like to thank the Deputy Minister for his statement. As Russell George said, it was very useful indeed to have Lord Burns attend the committee so we had an opportunity as committee members to explore some of the ideas with him directly. I want to offer the Deputy Minister Plaid Cymru's support for this approach, and to say that we are pleased that he has been able to accept the recommendations. I'm looking forward to studying the line-by-line response, because the Deputy Minister knows as well as I do that accepting in principle doesn't always mean that we can actually get it done. So, we'll need to look at that a little bit carefully I think, but very much welcome the approach. 

Can I just ask a little bit more about delivery of this? Now, the Deputy Minister is quite right when he talks about induced demand, and we know that, if this road had been built, it would have been filled up in a matter of a couple of years, whereas what we're talking about here is longer-term change. There will be challenges there. I think we would accept what the Deputy Minister has said about the need, when good alternatives are in place, for disincentives for people to carry on using private cars to come into play, though I am relieved to hear the Deputy Minister say that we need to start with the positive incentives by making public transport more accessible, making it feel safer, making it easier for people to use.

I'm concerned that one of the big challenges to delivery is going to be the situation of the non-devolved parts of the rail network. Now, this afternoon's conversation is not perhaps the place to have the conversation about the missed opportunity when Welsh Government could have asked for the full devolution and didn't, but, in the context of today's discussion, this does present some real challenges. The Deputy Minister is right to say that Wales has been short-changed massively in terms of capital spending by this UK Government. I think the First Minister was right when he told us earlier this afternoon that we can't trust the Tories. But, in terms of delivering this particular set of outcomes, I'd like to ask the Deputy Minister this afternoon how those initial discussions with UK Government that he and his officials have been having are progressing. It's early days to say, of course, but does he get the sense that they understand the importance, and indeed the urgency, of delivering for the people of south-east Wales, and, indeed, beyond, because, of course, that congestion in the south-east has an effect beyond the south-east itself? So, does he perceive that lack of power over rail infrastructure is going to be an issue in terms of delivering on this set of recommendations?

With regard to the shorter term work that he's talked about in terms of active travel and the bus network, is he confident that Welsh Government has got sufficient power to be able to ensure that this happens with regard to buses? Of course, with Newport Bus themselves, they are still controlled, as I understand it, by the local authority, so that will be relatively straightforward. But there are other bus services that go in and out of Newport, particularly those bus services that serve Valley communities—they're not all under direct local authority control. So, I wonder: does the Deputy Minister feel that the next Government may need to return to bus legislation, and may need to take that bus legislation perhaps further than was planned in the draft that we were looking at before COVID hit, to ensure that there are sufficient powers?

And the Deputy Minister did talk about governance in response to Russell George, and indeed mentioned that in his own statement. Has he given consideration as to how the UK Government will fit in to those governance mechanisms, as he begins to roll out the bigger infrastructure projects around rail? Because it seems to me that it's very important that there is some mechanism whereby, once agreements are reached, those agreements can be monitored. And does he see that as coming within the remit of the unit that he speaks about and the independent chair?

And finally, can he give us a sense this afternoon of when he thinks people in the Newport area will begin to see some of these changes? I'm a lot less sceptical than Russell George appears to be, and I think the intentions here are solid, and we've got good evidence from the Burns commission as to why these changes should be brought about. But I know that the Deputy Minister will understand the frustrations of people most directly affected, and indeed of the surrounding communities who get affected by the knock-on effects. So, can he give us some indication as to when he thinks people will begin to feel some changes on the ground as a result of this work, understanding, of course, that the bigger infrastructure works will take longer?

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for welcoming the approach that we've set out today, and for her constructive set of questions? We do, of course, support the devolution of rail infrastructure in Wales, and there was a debate and a vote in the Senedd back in February 2019 that called for that. So, I think I just want to make sure that point is understood by Plaid Cymru—that is something that this Government does support.

She asked, 'Do I think the UK Government gets the need to deliver on this report and the urgency of it?' Well, I suppose the jury is out on that, if I'm frank. As I've made clear, this is a shared responsibility. The fact that they have not delivered our share of rail infrastructure for some time has got to make me concerned about that. In fact, they've only set out a plan for something like £60 million-worth of railway improvements for the next 10 years, rather than the £5 billion that we would be entitled to. So, I think there is a call on them, really, to show that they do get it. And we've had constructive conversations with both the Department for Transport and, as I say, Sir Peter Hendy. So, let us be optimistic that that is indeed the case.

She also asks about the bus network and the powers necessary. Well, there is much that we can do through our bus emergency scheme. I met this week with the main local government leaders across Wales to discuss collaboration for what we're calling the bus emergency scheme 2, and sign-up for that. And that was a very consensual and very encouraging conversation. The industry is also engaging very well with us. So, we hope to be in a position where we can get all partners signed up to a framework for taking forward the funding and the organising of the bus industry that enables us to deliver many of the things that we were planning to use the legislation to achieve. Now that's no longer possible to pass that law in this Senedd term, we do think we have found another way to achieve much of it, but not all of it, and officials are drafting bus legislation should the next Welsh Government want to take that forward. And certainly, if we are in a position to form the Government, then we certainly will want to do that, because there is unfinished business, which is needed to make the system work well.

In terms of the governance mechanisms—Helen Mary Jones asks—well, as I say, it's a shared responsibility. And also her last question, 'Well, when will people see a change?'—well, we can commit to our part of that, but obviously it requires the others to commit to their parts of that as well. So, for example, the local roads in Newport are the responsibility of the local highway authority. The Welsh Government does not have power over Newport's roads. So, the bus measures and the active travel measures—we can provide funding for them, we can provide encouragement for them, we can provide help in designing them, but we can't deliver them without the co-operation of the local authority. And, of course, there has been a mixed record in recent decades in Newport council about their attitude to bus lanes. The previous Conservative administration in Newport tore up the bus lanes. So, I understand that there is scepticism amongst the public about that, but this current administration is working with us very well, is very positive, and certainly is committed to achieving the vision of this report.

So, when will people see change? Well, it's not entirely in our hands, but I certainly hope they'll see change within 18 months to two years—the start of it—but this is a 10-year project and will require—certainly the rail measures will require—a lot of work at a UK level. At the end of it, we expect to see 80 per cent of the people in the region within one mile of a high-quality public transport installation. That can be a game changer for a city the size of Newport, which has suffered for too long with poor air quality, with disadvantage for people on lower incomes because they weren't able to access transport easily, and their life chances and employment chances because of that. So, the prize of this goes way beyond a lot of transport-related gubbins. This is about people's lives and their life chances and I think it is a vision that we can all get behind.

It's good to hear Helen Mary Jones supporting the courageous decision by the Welsh Government to take forward this sustainable solution for tackling congestion around Newport, which has very significant impacts on people in Cardiff and particularly in my constituency. So, I very much welcome the opportunity to act as a catalyst for change that we have to seize on in order to meet our climate change obligations. In fact, the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 requires us to take all our decisions in light of the way we tackle climate change, improve air quality and advance social justice. 

So, I just want to focus on recommendation 1, which, to me, is the most important one, because upgrading the east-west rail lines between Cardiff and Newport and beyond is the spine around which the rest of the excellent Burns plan for a sustainable, joined-up transport system is built, so that, as you said, all citizens can live within one mile of a rail station or a rapid transport bus line and we can all get to work or school on public transport and not the polluting car.

So, telling us that you're going to work with Network Rail, TfW and the Department of Transport doesn't tell us very much beyond reminding us of the capacity of the Department of Transport's political masters to walk away from any commitments made, for example, on the electrification of the main line beyond Swansea. So, I appreciate that we constantly have hints that the UK Prime Minister remains enthusiastic about the out of date and ineffective idea of building a relief road around Newport, which is no solution to anything. 

Can you bring your—

So, how do you think you're going to be able to, if you like, make the case for Wales to get support for upgrading its so severely neglected Welsh infrastructure in the context that we'll get absolutely nothing from the billions being showered on HS2? Surely Wales needs to get some of the UK money that's going to be spent on making the transport of the future?  

Well, thank you for your supportive comments. It is absolutely the case that if the UK Government is sincere about its rhetoric about levelling up, then we need to see the proof of that in their response to this report and the investment that they're prepared to put into it, and Network Rail's willingness to prioritise these routes. As you said, recommendation 1 is the game-changer really in terms of the local railway network, to separate the local, commuting services and the inter-city services, and upgrading the relief lines so that all four tracks can operate up to 90 mph. That's clearly a significant piece of work and will need to be done in stages.

Alongside that, there is a recommendation for six new train stations. On three of those, work has begun on them in one shape or form, and there'll be a further three new ones, as well as the opportunity for two further trains on the Marches line from Magor and Maesglas. So, together, that represents a significant package of railway infrastructure, which is beyond the ability and the financial firepower of the Welsh Government to deliver. And this is something where the development unit within Transport for Wales is already working on businesses cases and talking to the UK Government about developing that, so that it is able to get through the various stage gates for funding approval. But I think Jenny Rathbone is absolutely right to point out that, without that commitment by the UK Government, then this report will not be able to achieve the potential that Lord Burns and the commissioners have identified to transform the public transport system in the city of Newport.

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for his statement? Just one small disappointment in the Deputy Minister's statement, touched on by Helen Mary Jones, and that is he uses the words, 'accept in principle'. Now, given that the Welsh Government commissioned this report and chose the chair, it's surprising that these words were used at all. However, apart from that mild criticism, it is gratifying to see that it certainly seems that the Welsh Government is fully committed to implementing many of the report's recommendations.

There is no doubt that the Burns report is a full and comprehensive assessment of the problems caused by the bottleneck at Malpas tunnel, and it wisely goes on to describe a holistic approach to solving the ongoing problems. I believe that the report is right in identifying the problem being very much exacerbated by the use of the M4 by local traffic. I also believe that Lord Burns and his team are right in advocating a number of measures that should be put in place to effect a sea change in people's attitudes to travel, which involves getting us out of the motor car and onto public transport.

The report outlines, amongst other things, the opening of new rail stations and new bus hubs. Given that buses carry a great many more passengers than trains, I believe that the Deputy Minister's first priority should be to ensure bus connectivity. Would the Deputy Minister outline what proposals are being put forward to immediately enhance bus services in and around Newport? 

If we are to effect the sea change in overall car usage, it is essential that not only is public transport more accessible, it must also be cost-effective. Indeed, prices must be so low as to make it especially competitive as opposed to the use of a car. Could the Deputy Minister give us any idea as to pricing strategies, especially in the short term?

We've touched upon— 

Can you bring your comments to a close, please?

Certainly. We have—[Inaudible.]—fast, efficient public transport offer. Given the extraordinary delays we have experienced with regard to action on this massively important transport project, we can only wish Welsh Government well in this—

Can you come to a close, please?

Yes—[Inaudible.]

Thank you. Deputy Minister.

Thank you very much. I can just reassure David Rowlands that there is no ambivalence in using the term 'accept in principle'; it's simply the fact that this is a 10-year vision and the detail of some of this may need to flex as the practicalities are explored as we go along, and not least there are statutory processes to go through, which the Welsh Government has a role in, and the lawyers need me to be careful in what I say. But I can assure you that our support is strong and significant for the vision set out, and we are committed to working through the detail, to put it into practice and to add to it as much as we can. And certainly, as I say, 'Llwybr Newydd: a new Wales transport strategy' has taken this vision and scaled it for the whole of Wales, so we certainly hope—. And certainly the question he raises about the affordability of bus use, that is a key question for achieving modal shift, for persuading people to leave their cars behind for everyday journeys and to use sustainable forms of transport, because, clearly, affordability is one of those measures. So, if we're not going to make a public transport system attractive—and there are many ways that you make it attractive, and that's certainly one of them—then the vision of this will not be achieved, that's for sure.

In terms of bus measures, I agree with him; I've already said that I see one of the first measures we take to be around bus prioritisation. Transport for Wales has been doing a series of modelling work, looking at where, for example, bus passengers lose the most time in the morning. I've had an interesting presentation from their modellers that shows quite clearly that there are three different bottlenecks for the buses in Newport in the morning, where bus passengers are sitting waiting because they're stuck in traffic, and I think an early priority would be to look at each of those three and to see how we can create some priority measures to allow buses to move freely, to encourage people to jump on the bus instead of jumping in a car.

So, that is a systematic piece of work that we are beginning with the delivery of it within TfW, and work has already started on that, but as I say, that does need the council working with us, being willing to make local decisions to make these changes possible in practice. I certainly think that, as ever, setting out the vision for these things is the easy bit; delivering it at pace, funding it, taking people with you is the hard bit. And I'm not underestimating the challenge ahead of us in taking this through, not least given the challenges that I've already outlined that we've had in the area, but it's absolutely doable and the prize is there for all to see. Given the challenges we all face in tackling climate change and in regenerating the local economy in the face of this recession, then this is a priority where there's an imperative for us all to get a move on.

Thank you. Can I remind speakers that they have a minute to ask a question of the Deputy Minister? And I suppose then if they only have a minute, Deputy Minister, your answers will be shorter. Thank you. Rhianon Passmore.

As you will appreciate, Newport, as Gwent's only city, forms a real focal point for the Gwent Valleys communities of Islwyn that I represent, and I very much welcome the Welsh Government's positive response to the recommendations of the South East Wales Transport Commission and the much welcomed Newport line is now eagerly anticipated. So, it's totally imperative today that the UK does come to the table and seek out an opportunity to level up, because it's increasingly concerning that Wales is not being given its due, and it's also heartbreaking to see this trend continuing in the aviation industry where, this week, Bristol Airport received £8 million from the UK Government to support it and Cardiff received absolutely nothing.

So, the question, and I'll go straight to it: will the Deputy Minister agree that we need to see the UK Government place full and fair resources in our rail network? A figure of £5 billion has been stated today to make integrated public transport across Gwent fit for purpose in the twenty-first century. And how can the communities of Islwyn best engage with this very important process moving forward, and what are the transformational shifts that this could bring to the lives of citizens across Islwyn?

Thank you for that. Rhianon Passmore is right to draw attention to again the iniquitous decision on aviation by the UK Government, which is all the more reason why they need to step up to the plate on this package to show that they are as committed to levelling up in all parts of the UK as they say they are.

To answer Rhianon Passmore's question, as I say, certainly people within the boundaries of Newport itself, 80 per cent of them will be within a mile of a high-quality public transport installation as a result of these proposals, but there'll be benefits to the hinterland as well in the Gwent Valleys as part of that. The Ebbw Vale line, which I know is an issue that she is consistently pressurising the Welsh Government to do more on, is an important part of that. We are hoping that this year we will have a new timetable with services as far as Cross Keys. We're not able to go beyond Cross Keys without investment and intervention from Network Rail and the UK Government, so that's another example where they need to 'Siapia hi', as my grandmother would say, but we are hoping to see four trains an hour on that line, and that is definitely part of the wider Burns vision.

I thank the Deputy Minister for his statement today. I welcome many of the proposals contained in this report, particularly for the people of Newport, and particularly the recommended improvements to the rail network, the new stations planned and the new rapid bus corridors across the region that will link to the rail backbone. I acknowledge that these will be beneficial in reducing the volume of traffic on the M4, however, as has already been said, it is no substitute for an M4 relief road—the M4 relief road that you've conveniently forgotten the Welsh Government has squandered millions and millions of pounds on, yet we see no solution and no road.

Welsh Labour has consistently failed to put in place a solution for the M4 congestion problem, breaking its own manifesto commitment in doing so. Despite 20 years of discussion and consultation, no practical solution has yet been delivered. While the Welsh Government have been dithering and shelving the scheme, the traffic on the M4 has been increasing rapidly. The performance of Wales's road and transport network will be a crucial enabler for sustaining productivity and competitiveness. Don't you agree with me that many of these proposals should be implemented alongside an M4 relief road in order to maximise the potential reduction in traffic and to bring maximum economic benefit to the region? Your transport infrastructure—

Can you wind up, please?

—supports the productivity of Wales, so it's not a question of whether we can afford to build an M4 relief road as well, but whether we can afford not to.

Laura Anne Jones is telling us that there's no practical solution been presented, and here we are discussing a practical solution that has been presented by a commission of experts on transport planning. We have a practical blueprint for the next 10 years, so I've no idea what she's on about, that there's no practical solution presented. That's exactly what we're talking about, Laura Anne.

She's saying that this is no substitute for an M4 relief road. That's absolutely right; it is no substitute for an M4 relief road. We've cancelled the M4 relief road because (a) it was going to cost £2 billion, and I've just said that the UK Government has short-changed us of £5 billion for rail infrastructure already, so—. She's muttering away to herself there, but she has yet to show us where we would get this mystical £2 billion because it simply isn't available. Even if it was available, it would fly in the face of all the commitments we've made on a cross-party basis to tackle climate change. It's no good on the one hand standing next to a Conservative tree and saying that you are the green party, and then on the other hand demanding actions that will tear into our carbon commitments. This is a different proposal: one that tackles congestion. It costs half the amount of money that an expensive road through a precious wetland would do, and it helps to reduce emissions, not increase them.

Minister, you complain that UK Government isn't prepared to fund anything and that the M4 relief road was too expensive at £2 billion, but there have been a number of suggestions around UK Government that the shared prosperity fund, indeed the internal market Bill, could be used for this. If there's a chance of getting up to £2 billion out of the UK Government to deal with the congestion and drive our economy with an M4 relief road, surely we should be biting their hand off.

Could I, though, ask the Minister to pass on to Lord Burns and his team the appreciation for their work on a cross-party basis across the Senedd? I had been sceptical to start with that this was just a cover up for the Minister not doing anything on the M4 relief road, but it's been a substantive body of work and I'm impressed with several of the recommendations in it.

In terms of the rail work, is it an all-or-nothing or can we get some improvements even if we don't get all of them? For instance, what's happening on the Cardiff parkway station? When might we see that delivered, and the two others where work's already starting? I remind the Minister: wasn't this commission about what to do with the money that you weren't spending on the M4 relief road, or a substantial part of it? So, why are we then getting the answer, 'Oh well, this is for the UK Government to fund'? I do have some sympathy with his statement that the UK Government should be funding more in Wales on rail infrastructure, but will he give me the assurance that he won't be using that as an excuse not to move forward in this area? Because this relief rail with six stations all working together and having a stopping service I think will be a real benefit to the south Wales economy.

I appreciate Mark Reckless's comments about what a substantial body of work has been carried out by the report, which does command both respect and support across the virtual Chamber.

In terms of the funding of it, rail infrastructure, which forms a large part of the report—apart from the central Valleys lines, which have now been devolved to the Welsh Government—lies with the UK Government. We estimate the cost of implementing the Burns report somewhere between £500 million and £800 million, and we estimate around £0.5 billion of that is spending for the UK Government to do on the railway line. This is money that has been underinvested for years, as I've already mentioned. So, given that we ought to be getting £5 billion, then £0.5 billion shouldn't be an unreasonable request, not least since it delivers on the levelling-up agenda the UK Government talks about.

He also talked about the shared prosperity fund, but I think he has more faith than I do that it's going to deliver anything, because so far, four years or more since the referendum, we're yet to see what a shared prosperity fund looks like. So, I don't think we can put our eggs in that basket when it comes to this project, and even if we did have £2 billion from the UK Government to fund an M4 relief road, it would be the wrong solution. We have declared a climate change emergency and building a large pollution-generating highway through protected wetlands would not be the right thing to do. 

Now, as I say, the good thing about Burns is that it's looked at the problem with a fresh pair of eyes from a carbon reduction point of view, and it has put forward practical ways that improve connectivity, improve the local economy, but without the damaging effects of a scheme that induces and grows traffic. So, I think we have the best of both worlds. We now need to get on with delivering it, and we can only do that in partnership.

I welcome this statement. I note that a large aspect of the Burns plan requires investment from the UK Government; that's come up a number of times this afternoon. Given that the historical underinvestment in Welsh rail infrastructure by the UK Government shows no sign of abating, what would the Deputy Minister say is the contingency plan if they do refuse to provide the money that we need? I was glad to hear you say to my colleague Helen Mary Jones that the Welsh Government does now support the full devolution of rail infrastructure, and I know that you said earlier that you want to be optimistic, Deputy Minister, but to be realistic, if the UK Government continues with intransigence, would you agree that Welsh rail would have a brighter future as a fully nationalised asset of an independent Welsh state? 

Well, I can agree with some of that, but I think you're pushing your luck on all of it. [Laughter.] It's certainly the case that there are things that we can be getting on with while we do the work with Network Rail and the Department for Transport on the rail planning process. As I say, we've started that work already, and of the six new stations that Burns identifies, three are under way. And Mark Reckless, I'm sorry, I forgot to touch on this. He mentioned the Cardiff parkway station, which is advancing with our support. Also, in terms of the active travel measures, that is also something within our control and that we are increasing investment significantly in to be able to deliver that. I'm very keen to see a Cardiff to Newport route delivered soon as part of that active travel work. But ultimately, as Delyth Jewell mentions, this does require the UK. This is a UK rail network. It is not devolved to the Welsh Government, the infrastructure side of it, and so they need to play their part to make sure that people of this part of the UK are well served by our collective railway network. 

There are many good actions suggested by Lord Burns that will be actioned by Welsh Government with partners, Deputy Minister. You will know that, for example, the new railway station at Magor has very good community support and buy-in and has been put forward for quite some time. So, I think that is very, very promising, and the new stations at Llanwern and Somerton similarly. I also welcome the proposals for Severn Tunnel Junction, with better co-ordinated transport services and bus access, and also the long-desired link between the M48 and the B4245, which would take a lot of congestion off the roads through the villages of Magor and Undy.

There is a lot that's going to be really valuable, but, obviously, we need to make it happen, and I take the point that was made in terms of have we got sufficient goodwill from UK Government in terms of the main line and the relief lines, and I hope very much that we'll see that forthcoming. But in terms of those matters within our more direct control, bus is obviously very important, and points have been made about the number of people who travel by bus and the early opportunities with bus priority and so on. Could you give very careful consideration, in terms of bus and how we get things moving, Deputy Minister, to a pilot free bus travel scheme in Newport, which I think would have a lot of merit? It would be a very early signal of intention, and I think it would capture the imagination and the support of local people.

I'm certainly prepared to look at that proposal. Of course, what we are doing in Newport is rolling out a pilot of our demand-responsive bus project there—we're calling it Fflecsi—and that's built on a tried-and-tested model of providing people with an on-call bus network, if you like. That has already proved to be very successful in the parts of Newport where we've tried it. In fact, its demand has outstripped our capacity to deal with it, and as a result we are scaling it up. So, certainly, that's a project we'd like to roll out to other parts of Wales, and we are piloting it in different communities and different settings in other parts of Wales. Newport is the place we're doing it on the largest scale, and I certainly think that could act as a great complement to the existing bus network. The evidence so far is that it's driving new patrons onto the bus network—people who otherwise would not have traditionally considered catching the bus. So, it does seem to be a very promising project.

John Griffiths mentions a range of local stations as part of the Burns vision, not least the walk-up station in Magor, which I will be meeting with the local authority to discuss soon, as well as the other projects reflecting the communities in Undy and Maesglas and other parts of the area. There's no doubt that the whole city and the people in it will benefit from the range of different proposals in this and, frankly, the sort of modern public transport network that really shouldn't be a big deal. This should be your standard for a city like Newport, and for too long, I think, we've not put the investment into bus in particular, and in making sure that there is a realistic alternative to the car.

I know time is short, so I'll be brief. Can I just ask you, Deputy Minister, on the public transport enhancements that you've mentioned? It's good to hear about the proposed increase in the number of stations in Newport, but, of course, the increase in the number of stations only works when you've actually got a railway line. Two questions on the back of that: first of all, are there any plans for the Newport to Hereford line, for any increase in the number of stations there, or some increase in capacity? Because, of course, that feeds into the Newport area and would take commuters.

Secondly, in the east of my constituency, there are no railway lines and there haven't been for 60 or 70 years. So, other than the car, there will have to be other public transport improvements. I've previously questioned the Minister for economy and transport on the possibility of a hub at the Celtic Manor, at the new convention centre. Is that something that's being looked at? Because without any of those changes in my constituency, my constituents will still have to travel by car and cause congestion around Newport.

Excellently done. Thank you. Deputy Minister.

That's why the new Wales transport strategy is so important, because it puts all these sorts of options on the table, and they'll be different for different communities. So, I think the demand-responsive network I mentioned, particularly for areas like yours, Nick Ramsay, which doesn't have inherent railway infrastructure, is a way of getting people out of cars and moving people around in the relatively short term. This is something that can be scaled up and rolled out quickly. So, certainly, based on the success in Newport, we would want to be rolling that out to as many communities as possible. In terms of the specific question he asks me about stations from Newport to Hereford, I will have to write to him about that, but this is an agenda that is going to be increasing. The more support there is for enhancing services and infrastructure, the more that we can all suggest improvements in our own areas to put these principles into practice.

And finally, Alun Davies.

I'm grateful to you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and grateful to the Deputy Minister as well. I note that the Government are accepting the recommendation on the Ebbw valley line going to four trains an hour and I'd be grateful for an indication of the timescale on that. I would also like to understand what the future vision is for the line, because when it was created and when it was restored and opened, it was an interurban service linking the heads of the Valleys with the city centre in Cardiff. There's a very real danger with some of the proposals in this report that it will become a suburban service linking Cardiff and Newport, and that would be a real problem for us in terms of having a regional solution. The more stations, the longer the journey time, and I think we need to have a conversation about that.

The second issue I wanted to raise is that about regional buses. We've already debated the interconnectivity and the integration of different services, but we need to ensure that we have a regional approach to this. Simply linking Cardiff and Newport won't be sufficient to solve the problems, and that means that we have the governance at a regional level, we have the ability to route buses at a regional level, we have the ability to ensure that we have the interticketing, and the ability of people to move easily from one mode of transport to another. Thank you.

I entirely agree with that last point, and that's why it's important that, through the creation of the joint transport committees, we put the planning of our bus network on a regional footing, so that these connections can be laid out and achieved. As I said, I had a very encouraging conversation with regional and local government leaders earlier this week on supporting that vision. I think we have already announced an improvement of the regional service in Alun Davies's constituency, using the TrawsCymru network to link up to the new Grange hospital. So, I think there are some things we've already delivered there and I think we're putting in place the structure to be able to deliver more.

In terms of his point about a suburban network and the need to link Ebbw Vale in particular both to Cardiff and to Newport, it's certainly the intention of the Ebbw Vale railway enhancements that they will do both—that the enhancement we hope to see this year to Crosskeys will go into Newport, where the existing service goes into Cardiff. As we go up to four services, they will serve both cities. But it's a strong point that he makes and one that I think we're going to need to keep a dialogue open on to make sure that, as we improve and enhance our public transport network, it works for all communities.

Thank you very much, Deputy Minister.