6. Welsh Conservatives Debate: Departure from the European Union

– in the Senedd on 23 June 2021.

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(Translated)

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Siân Gwenllian, and amendment 2 in the name of Lesley Griffiths. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 4:40, 23 June 2021

(Translated)

Item 6 is the next item, the Welsh Conservatives debate on departure from the European Union, and I call on Darren Millar to move the motion.

(Translated)

Motion NDM7716 Darren Millar

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that 23 June 2021 marks the fifth anniversary of the people of Wales voting to leave the European Union.

2. Believes that the outcome of referendums should always be respected.

3. Acknowledges that scores of new responsibilities have been transferred to the Welsh Parliament as a result of the United Kingdom’s departure from the European Union.

4. Calls on the Welsh Government to proactively promote and take advantage of the opportunities that our departure from the European Union presents.

(Translated)

Motion moved.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 4:40, 23 June 2021

Diolch, Llywydd. I rise to move the motion on the order paper and to speak in opposition to both of the amendments.

Llywydd, today marks the fifth anniversary of the historic moment when Wales, along with the rest of the United Kingdom, voted to leave the European Union. It's an inconvenient truth for many people in this Chamber, but that is the state of things. The referendum, of course, saw the highest turnout in any ballot in Wales since the 1997 general election. It gave us a clear result, which sent shockwaves through the Welsh establishment, some of whom I can hear heckling at the moment—[Laughter.] An astonishing 854,572 people in Wales voted to leave the EU. That's nearly twice as many as those who voted Labour in the last Senedd election, and it's 300,000 more than the ballots that were cast in favour of establishing the Senedd back in 1997.

The three and a half years that followed the Brexit vote were not straightforward. The parliamentary arithmetic, and the determination of those who played politics and did not respect the will of the people and who sought to frustrate the Brexit process, made it at times very difficult and tortuous. But that painful period was brought to an end with a general election in 2019 that saw a Conservative Government elected with a whopping majority. It had a clear mandate to get Brexit done, and it was an election that saw Labour's red wall reduced to rubble in north-east Wales. The Liberal Democrats, of course, were wiped off the map—[Interruption.] I thought you'd like that, James. And Plaid were knocked into third place in its No. 1 target seat, Ynys Môn.

Following that election, of course, Boris got Brexit done. He delivered on his pledge to the people. Llywydd, it is vital for the sake of democracy that election and referendum results are always respected and implemented. That's why I am incredibly disappointed that, in their delete-all amendments today, neither the separatists in Plaid Cymru nor the Welsh Labour Government has chosen to reflect this very important truth.

Llywydd, my party did not table today's motion with the intention of opening up the divisions of the past that emerged during the Brexit debate—[Interruption.] It's true. It was tabled, rather, to give all Members of this Senedd the opportunity to have a full and frank debate about the opportunities that Brexit presents for Wales, and to move on from all of the division of the past five years. Yet, as we can see from the order paper, both of the parties opposite have tabled amendments that are refrains of the same sort of divisiveness, the same sort of grandstanding, that characterised their response to the referendum in 2016. They are like a scratched record, Llywydd. It's time that they moved on.

Both the Labour and Plaid Cymru—[Interruption.] Both the Labour and Plaid Cymru amendments seek to peddle the myth that the UK Government has been undermining devolution since Brexit, but nothing could be further from the truth. The reality is that, thanks to Brexit, Wales now has its most powerful devolved Parliament in history.

Wales has emerged with an exciting new list of responsibilities that previously resided in Brussels, and, contrary to the assertion of Labour and Plaid, the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 did not remove a single power from this Senedd. Instead, it allowed for an orderly transfer of powers that already and previously resided in the EU, and it gave them back to Parliaments here in the UK. That's what people voted for. And, in those further powers and responsibilities, there are scores of areas here in Wales that have now seen the devolution settlement further cemented in our constitution. These are not powers over obscure areas of legislation that have no impact on people's lives. They fall in significant areas, such as air quality, food labelling, the marine environment, public procurement, and the list goes on and on and on. And all of these new powers and responsibilities, if they are used well by this Welsh Government, are capable of improving the day-to-day lives of people across the nation.

So, Llywydd, there has been no power grab by the UK Government following our departure from the EU. There has been no assault on devolution. I have asked time and time again for Members of the parties opposite to give me a list of the powers that have been stripped away from the Senedd as a result of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, and I am still waiting for that list. Because the reality is, there'll be nothing on it. There is nothing on it; there's nothing on that list. I look forward to receiving it. I hope you do a better job than your predecessor, because I never received a copy. And that's because they can't produce one, because there aren't any powers that have been stripped away from this Senedd. The accusations that they have been levelling against the UK Government are nothing more than sabre rattling—sabre rattling from political parties who balk about powers being transferred from the European Union to Westminster, yet never balked when all of these powers were held in Brussels.

Plaid even have the audacity, yet again today, to be tabling something before us calling for a further referendum for constitutional change. Now, as I said two weeks ago to the Members on the Plaid benches, there's no appetite for further significant constitutional change and further referendums in Wales. You made your pitch to the people of Wales in the Senedd elections last month, on the basis that you wanted independence and you wanted a referendum, and you were slapped in the face, frankly, by the Welsh electorate, who rejected your calls overwhelmingly.

And, of course, the Welsh Government has accused the UK Government of aggressive centralisation in recent months—aggressive centralisation, that's what they've accused us of. The irony. It's a bit rich of the Welsh Government that's been centralising powers in Cardiff and stripping them away from local councils the length and breadth of this country for two decades to be telling the UK Government that it's a centralising Government. Absolutely unbelievable. The facts are this: the UK Government, as a result of the levelling-up fund and the shared prosperity fund, is actually decentralising power. It's decentralising power by giving local authorities a much bigger role than they've ever had before in the delivery of sizeable and significant investment in their areas. Because that's the difference between my party and the other parties represented in this Chamber: we trust local people to make local decisions for themselves. We believe that they're better able to make the decisions for themselves than people sat in ivory towers in Cardiff. That's the truth. That's the truth.

Now, you'd think that the parties opposite would welcome more investment from the UK Government in Wales, and yet, they oppose it. Isn't it extraordinary? They're always asking for more money and more investment, and when the UK Government says, 'Right, we'll give it; we'll pave the way with this UK internal market Act', they turn around and say, 'We don't want it; we want to make the decisions.' Well, I'm sorry, it's unacceptable. You should not be griping about this additional resource that the UK Government wants to make available here in Wales. We don't need a Government that sticks two fingers up to the UK Government; what we need is a Government that works in collaboration with the UK Government for the benefit of the people of Wales. Because, you know what, as a result of Brexit, I've got a lot of optimism going forward. Not only will Wales benefit as a result of the shared prosperity fund and the levelling-up funds that will come into our local authorities, but we will also benefit as a result of the trade deals that have been cut with nations across the globe.

Her Majesty's Government has already secured trade agreements with 67 countries and the European Union. Sixty-seven countries. Deals worth more than—. I remember some of you on those Labour benches telling us that there'd be no way that there would be a trade deal within the next decade with the European Union, and yet we have one. Yet we have one. Boris Johnson and his team have pulled the rabbit out of the hat. I know you don't like it, but that's the truth. That's the truth. We've got deals worth more than £890 billion and counting. Sixty-three per cent of UK trade is covered by those trade deals. Deals with countries as diverse as Canada, Egypt, Iceland, Japan, Kenya, Serbia, Chile, Singapore. The list goes on and on and on. And these are not trade deals that are struck by an insular United Kingdom; these are trade deals by a global Britain that wants to play an important role on the international stage.

So, let's mark this wonderful anniversary of the referendum, five years ago today, by putting those divisions behind us. Let's agree to work together, to take advantage of all that Brexit affords, and let's make sure that the Welsh Government, over the next five years, works collaboratively with the UK Government for the benefit of everybody here in Wales.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 4:49, 23 June 2021

(Translated)

I have selected the two amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on Rhys ab Owen to move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian.

(Translated)

Amendment 1—Siân Gwenllian

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the UK Government's ongoing threats to devolution since Brexit, specifically in relation to the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, the levelling-up fund and the shared prosperity fund;

2. Believes that voters should always have clear and detailed proposals for constitutional referendums;

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to commence the process set out in the Government of Wales Act 2006 to seek powers for the Senedd to call for a binding referendum on the constitutional future of Wales, which would put Wales's future in the hands of Wales.

(Translated)

Amendment 1 moved.

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru

Llywydd, I was surprised to see this motion from the Conservatives today. Only a fortnight ago, the Conservative chief whip accused me of constitutional navel gazing. Well, what have we had today but constitutional navel gazing? But, I think, Mr Millar, you enjoyed our debate more a fortnight ago than you care to admit.

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The first Plaid Cymru debate was progressive; it showed the way to improve Wales and expand our powers, not hand them back, as the Conservatives want to do. Brexit has happened, we are out of the European Union, so why you have to go on and on about it so much, I don't know. But, that does not mean that we shouldn't hold the leaders of the 'leave' campaign, who made all kinds of empty promises to the people of Wales and the UK, to account. We won't forget the red bus with the promise of more funding for the health service; we won't forget the promise that Wales and the most deprived communities in Wales would receive additional funding; we won't forget the increase in hatred towards immigrants as a result of the 'leave' campaign.

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru 4:51, 23 June 2021

We know what the 'leave' campaign meant when the rally cry was, 'Take back control'. It was take back control to Westminster. Wales wasn't on the agenda. From the beginning, Wales did not feature. We saw this in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 putting further restraints on the devolution settlement in Wales, and we see it now with Wales being ignored time and time again. Listen, Members; listen to the sound of the constant drum of threats to devolution post Brexit. The UK internal market Act, the levelling-up fund, the shared prosperity fund, all designed to redraw the political map that the people of Wales have voted for time and time again.

The second paragraph made me laugh in the Conservative motion today, when they said that the outcomes of referendums should be respected. Now, well, that's rich, coming from the Conservative benches. Prior to the election, one of your Members declared that he was going to finally end the devolution experiment in Wales. That Member also said he'll campaign to end devolution in Wales. Does that show respect to the outcomes of two referendums in 1997 and 2011? Your Senedd leader—your Senedd leader—in 2005 stood on a manifesto that said they'd have a referendum that would include the option to abolish the Assembly. Does that show respect to the will of the people of Wales? And just this week—just this week—we heard from the economy Minister, who said despite the fact that he was invited to the trade talks with the EU, he wasn't allowed to say anything. He wasn't allowed to contribute. Does that show respect to our Government here in Wales? Let me tell the Conservative benches this right now: our Welsh Parliament is not an experiment. It's not here to come to an end at a whim of a Conservative Party in Government, and we're not a token gesture. We are not here to be seen but not heard.

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru 4:53, 23 June 2021

(Translated)

Gwynfor Evans showed greater vision in the 1960s than we are seeing now from the Conservatives over there. He described Wales as a laboratory—a chance to show how to do things and for the world to follow.

A number of important changes have happened in this place, social changes, some things that we wouldn't have thought possible 20 years ago, such as banning smoking in pubs, the plastic bag charge, presumed consent for organ donation and removing—even though you wanted to keep it—removing the defence of reasonable chastisement of children.

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru 4:54, 23 June 2021

And I look forward to working cross party in this group to bring forward a universal basic income, so we can create, as Janet Finch-Saunders quoted earlier today, a socialist utopia here in Wales.

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Where Wales leads, others follow.

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru

Boris Johnson saw the Brexit process as a chance to grab the front-door keys to 10 Downing Street. Now that we have this hard, harsh Brexit, we, as a Senedd, need to work together to mitigate its impact. We must repel those distant drums of an English nationalist Conservative Party, a party that is intent on damaging devolution, and through that, damaging Wales and damaging the people of Wales.

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Poll after poll has shown that people in Wales across the political spectrum want additional powers. So, my call to you, the Welsh Government, is to be unstinting in your efforts. Don't delay, don't wait for the Westminster Government to do something, because nothing from that direction will benefit the people of Wales. If we respect the referenda of the past, we need to demand additional powers. So, support our amendment and demand those additional powers for the benefit of the people of Wales. Thank you very much.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 4:55, 23 June 2021

(Translated)

I call on the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution to formally move amendment 2.

(Translated)

Amendment 2—Lesley Griffiths

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Acknowledges the EU referendum result.

2. Calls on the UK Government to work constructively with the EU to minimise the impact of the deal that they agreed on businesses and citizens across the UK.

3. Condemns the failure of the UK Government to fulfil its promise that Wales would not be a penny worse off outside the European Union.

4. Condemns the UK Government's ongoing assault on devolution through the UK Internal Market Act 2020, levelling-up fund and shared prosperity fund.

5. Welcomes the Welsh Government commitment to engage with the people of Wales to consider our constitutional future in a radically reformed United Kingdom.

(Translated)

Amendment 2 moved.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

As I stated here in June 2016,

'Wales in Britain must be a sovereign partner of Europe not a province of the EU as part of an outward-looking global community.'

Today, five years exactly since the people of Wales—the people of Wales—voted to leave the EU, an outward-looking global Britain is able to strike trade deals with new markets as a liberal, free trading force for good in the world. Much has been achieved, and especially given the unprecedented circumstances created by the pandemic and constant sniping from those who, for once, didn't get their own way.

Since Brexit, our global UK has signed deals covering 67 countries and the EU, and is making good progress with other friends and allies, including New Zealand, Australia and the US. Last week's historic free trade deal with Australia will create new opportunities for UK and Welsh businesses and consumers, removing all tariffs on UK goods, making it cheaper to sell products like cars, whisky and ceramics into Australia, slashing red tape for thousands of small businesses, making it easier to travel and work, especially for young people.

Farmers will be protected by a cap on tariff-free imports for 15 years, and agricultural producers will also be supported to increase their exports overseas. In some cases, Australia has higher animal welfare standards than some EU countries, and the UK international trade Secretary has also guaranteed, for example, that hormone-injected beef will remain banned in the UK. However, as NFU Cymru Clwyd told me last Saturday, trade liberalisation is good, but they need fair play on hygiene and welfare standards. We agree. They added that they need farm support schemes from the Welsh Government that are serviceable, workable and affordable. Well, that's over to these Ministers.

Yesterday, the UK Government launched negotiations to join the comprehensive and progressive agreement, the trans-Pacific partnership, a £1 trillion free trading area, home to 500 million people, which will open up new opportunities for UK businesses in the world's fastest growing market. Rather than whingeing and wailing, sneering and scaremongering, it's vital that Labour Welsh Government Ministers and Plaid Cymru, fellow travellers in Cardiff Bay, now ensure that Wales is at the front of the queue to capitalise on the numerous opportunities created for Welsh businesses by these new trade deals, which will allow us to build back better after the pandemic.

As I said here last December,

'experts say the post-Brexit trade deal will help the economy bounce back in 2021, after a bleak year dominated by the coronavirus crisis.'

Two months ago, Irish sea ferry operator Stena Line said that freight traffic is on the up at its ports in Holyhead and Fishguard following a dip after Brexit. The CBI forecast last Friday stated that the UK economy will expand by 8.2 per cent this year and 6.1 per cent next year, outpacing all the UK's major competitors and taking the economy back to pre-pandemic levels of activity by the end of the year.

Partisan hype about the UK internal market Act is opportunistic nonsense. In reality, at the time of the UK withdrawal Bill, the UK Government agreed that UK-wide frameworks to replace the EU rulebook would be freely negotiated between the four UK Governments in areas such as food, animal welfare and the environment, setting standards below which none can fall, with the existing common arrangements maintained until these are all agreed.

And in a statement on the UK Government's latest report on common frameworks earlier this month, the Welsh Government states

'The report outlines continued positive work on Common Frameworks, and confirms that the UK Government has not used the ‘freezing powers’.'

The reactionaries opposite keep spinning that the UK shared prosperity fund will leave Wales worse off, choosing to ignore repeated statements by UK Government Ministers that the amount of money that is going to be spent in Wales when the shared prosperity fund comes in will be identical to or higher than the amount of money that was spent in Wales that came from the EU, underpinned by the 'not a penny less' guarantee. What they don't want people to know is that the UK Government is asking local authorities in Wales to join with stakeholders including the Welsh Government to come up with really innovative ideas, where the lessons learned will form the basis of a much larger package of money from the end of 2021 onwards.

Last week, they even claimed here that the money would be spent better if it was put directly into their command-and-control hands. Let us remember that Labour Welsh Governments have already spent £5.5 billion in EU funding on not closing the prosperity gap, either within Wales or between Wales and the rest of the UK. That is why the UK Government wants to work at the lowest level—at a local level, with local authorities—and with the Welsh Government to finally put that money to deliver the closed prosperity gap it was originally intended for and create the prosperity that Wales has been waiting so long to achieve. 

Photo of Joyce Watson Joyce Watson Labour 5:01, 23 June 2021

Five years ago, by a narrow margin, a majority of the people who cast a ballot in Wales and the UK as a whole voted to leave the European Union, and we've left. That's right, and that's the democratic outcome. But democracy is nuanced, it's not a sledgehammer. As well as a majority decision, it's about pluralism, tolerance and finding common ground, which is one of the reasons many of us argued for an exit deal that maintained the greatest possible access to the EU single market and continued participation in a customs union. To my mind, that would have been a more democratic outcome of the referendum, one that both sides of the argument could have lived with.

As it is, the Tories pursued a partisan, hard Brexit, turning it into this toxic wedge issue that continues to divide politicians, yes, but more importantly communities, families and friendship and the constitutional stability of the UK, which is sad and deeply irresponsible. For that reason alone, Boris Johnson's deal should be deemed a political and social failure. But already it's proving to be an economic failure, too. The other reason we argued for greater alignment with the EU was to prevent what we are seeing now—barriers to trade that Welsh businesses were told they wouldn't face, the massive increase in bureaucracy and non-tariff barriers, the difficulties faced by the arts and creative sector in touring in Europe, the immediate damage to our seafood industry, and the very obvious border in the Irish sea. These are not unexpected or teething problems, like the Tories would like us to believe; they are inherent and they are an inevitable consequence of the Tory Brexit. 

I mentioned Northern Ireland. We all, I hope, accept that we cannot have a hard border on the island of Ireland. So, any trade deal with the US or Australia, or any other country for that matter, necessarily means either a border in the Irish sea or throwing Welsh and UK farmers under the famous Brexit bus. There's no getting around that. The Australia deal shows the direction of travel. The Tories have plumped for the sea border and free trade over the UK's constitutional integrity and the future of Welsh farming.

I explained the Tories' hypocrisy on this issue recently, so I won't repeat that, but I didn't know whether to laugh or to cry when I watched the UK trade Minister defend it in Parliament and on the airwaves. In one breath, Liz Truss lauded the access our farmers would have to the new markets, like Vietnam. Next, she was admitting that there's virtually no trade in products like chicken because it's so far away. Well, who would have known it? Who would have known that Vietnam is a long way from the rest of Europe? Suddenly, she's seen that light.

Five years on from the referendum, my view is that the British public will not tolerate this destructive, divisive, dogmatic Tory Brexit for too long. I hope and I expect in five years' time that we'll be reflecting on Brexit from a position of a much closer customs and market alignment. That would be a much more sensible, practical and democratic way ahead, and it also actually might help save some of the businesses here and help us to actually have enough people to work in those industries. Thank you.

Photo of Sam Rowlands Sam Rowlands Conservative 5:05, 23 June 2021

Thank you for the opportunity to contribute in this important debate today, tabled by my colleague Mr Millar. Today, of course, as you clearly know, marks five years since the people of Wales voted to leave the European Union along with the people of the United Kingdom. And for me, one of the most fascinating aspects of the referendum was that it was the biggest democratic exercise that our country has ever seen. I want to take a few moments this afternoon to celebrate that.

Remember that we're elected here today with a turnout of around 45 per cent for these Senedd elections, and Westminster colleagues are elected at around 67 per cent turnout for their elections, but this referendum five years ago trumped this with a 72 per cent turnout. There was a huge amount of engagement by the electorate—1.6 million people in Wales voted in that Brexit referendum. It's a UK Conservative Government that is acting on the will of the people and is delivering on and continues to deliver on the mandate from the people of Wales in leaving the European Union. As politicians, of course, we must never forget who we represent and what they wish for us to do, and this referendum was a perfect example of this. [Interruption.] In your constituency, I'm sure you'll know, Mr Davies, 62 per cent, I believe, voted to leave.

The people of Wales chose to leave the European Union. They went against what many experts were telling them to do and they went against what many politicians were telling them to do. It was they who chose their destiny and it was they who chose their freedom from the European Union. The role, of course, of us as elected politicians—and certainly as Government—is to listen and carry out the will of the people and the people of Wales who give us their mandate. There's no clearer way to listen to the people of Wales than through a direct binary referendum. And in the words of one of the greatest exponents of democracy, Abraham Lincoln, democracy is 'government of, by and for the people'. Elections belong to the people; it's their decision.

It's clear more than ever that the British people have endorsed Brexit. They again endorsed the UK Conservative Government Brexit plan—[Interruption.] They endorsed it again, Mr Davies, at the most recent UK general election where the Conservatives gained a whopping majority to get Brexit done, as the Prime Minister continues to repeat. And as our Conservative motion outlines, it's now time for the Welsh Government to promote and take advantage of the opportunities that our departure from the EU presents. We have now fully regained our political and economic independence, taking back control of our laws, borders, money, trade and fisheries. Moving forward from this, the trade agreement that the UK has agreed with the EU on behalf of the British people will help to forge a fantastic new relationship with our European neighbours, based on free trade and friendly co-operation.

To conclude, Llywydd, today marks a very special day for democracy: five years since the largest vote this country has ever seen. And isn't it wonderful that we can see democracy in action, and the UK Government is delivering on the wishes of the people of this nation? Despite the scaremongering, the people of our great nation chose to leave the European Union. They chose to regain our independence, to control our laws and money, and decide our immigration and trade. Today allows us to celebrate the power of an individual person's vote, democracy in action and Government willing to deliver on a clear mandate. Now is the time to promote and take advantage of the opportunities that leaving the European Union have presented us. It's time to open up to the wider world and make this country an even better place. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd.  

Photo of Delyth Jewell Delyth Jewell Plaid Cymru 5:10, 23 June 2021

What an ill-starred anniversary this is. I won't use my contribution today to rehearse the lies that were told during the 2016 referendum—they are a matter of public record—but I do take exception to the tone of the latter half of the Conservative motion with its focus on opportunities, conveniently ignoring the power grab from Westminster under the internal market Act, and the EU successor schemes that, only last week, I explained to the Chamber seemed calculated to enrich Tory-supporting areas at the expense of our communities. No mention of the threatened cuts to our arts sector, our students' ability to study, form relationships and flourish abroad—all taken away.

When I first came to this Senedd and was spokesperson on Brexit, it seemed that all of our bandwidth was taken up with trade deals, news from negotiations, and division bells reverberating all the way from Westminster to our Senedd. I felt haunted by the awareness of all that was passing our attention by—the could, the would, the should, the might-have-beens that could not be because Brexit was taking all of our attention. Now, the sorry saga of Brexit is too often relegated to written statements. Updates that affect the livelihoods and life chances of citizens are pushed to pages written down, not spoken or scrutinised.

I don't blame the Welsh Government, and goodness knows COVID has had to take so much of our attention, but Llywydd, outside the Chamber there hangs still a sense of what might have been, no longer perhaps in terms of legislative time or Government priority, but lives put on hold, EU citizens who've lived for years amongst us having to reapply for their right to reside, a sense of dense interbelonging and shared aspirations sidelined, and horizons shrinking and crumpling in. And across the sea, discord and tension in Northern Ireland grows louder, stoked by Westminster Ministers who didn't bother to care about the impact that their laissez-faire, lazy braggadocio would have on what is quite literally a matter of life and death. 

Llywydd, the motion speaks of opportunities. I would speak of opportunities lost—the opportunity cost of red tape, form filling, the roads not taken because now they are blocked. In 'Hard Border' the poet Clare Dwyer Hogg reminds us that

'chance and hope come in forms like steam and smoke'.

Not all of the impacts of Brexit are as tangible as lines of lorries on a motorway. I would remind the Chamber of the journeys never taken, the loves never found, challenges missed before they could be faced, triumphs and tribulations we might have shared; those might-have-beens dissipating and disappearing like smoke in the wind.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 5:13, 23 June 2021

I assumed the debate would turn out like this this afternoon, actually. Perhaps I should have thought differently about it. When you consider what's been going on both before and after the referendum, ironically I think it's the Luxembourg Prime Minister, Xavier Bettel, that I feel most sympathy for, when he said, 

'Before, they were in and they had many opt-outs; now they want to be out with many opt-ins.'

I think unwittingly there he summed up the drift, dishonesty and confusion in United Kingdom Government policy over and before this period.

I'm used to, and I've got a lot of sympathy with, the Conservatives' wish to thump their drums this afternoon, and let them do it. But what you can't do is to build a politics and build a policy on dishonesty. Darren Millar was absolutely right. He came here in December and said, 'Boris Johnson has delivered a deal with the European Union that you said'—pointing to the Welsh Government—'he could never do'. And you were absolutely right to say that, because the Welsh Government, of course, made the mistake of taking Boris Johnson at his word. What Boris Johnson did in order to secure that deal, of course, was to essentially transfer Northern Ireland to the administration and the jurisdiction of the European Union.

That is what happened; 288 European law measures are force of law today in Northern Ireland, and that is an absolute fact. A border was driven down the Irish sea. The European Union said that they wanted to have a solution, and Boris Johnson told the tabloids that he was going to go fight off and fight for Blighty, and he got there, and he caved in, he gave in, he let down the people of Northern Ireland and he lied to the British Parliament. And that is absolutely clear. And, do you know, that level of drift and dishonesty has been the fundamental guiding strain of UK Government policy throughout this period—say one thing, do another. And we've seen a consequence of that in Ireland today. Of course, we've seen in the last few years a growth of 60 per cent in cross-border business between the Republic and Northern Ireland because, of course, you've now created what Sinn Fein has failed to do, actually, and Boris Johnson has succeeded in doing—creating an all-Ireland economy for the first time since partition, quite a way to celebrate his belief in the union. 

And he's also done something different, something very different, and Liz Truss spoke about this in The Times on Saturday. Again, the Conservatives speak about the trade deals that they've done in different parts of the world, but what impact does that have on this country? What impact does it have on Wales? We talk about the potential trade deal with the Pacific countries, but what they don't tell you is that the uplift in gross domestic product according to their own numbers is 0.08 per cent. Zero point zero eight per cent. Global Britain couldn't even pay for its own yacht. [Laughter.] And the reality is that that doesn't even pay for the cost of leaving the single market, and the jobs and the opportunities that are lost as a consequence of it. So, it's fundamentally dishonest.

And the other thing she said on Saturday that I thought was quite interesting was that global Britain, she said, is not going to pursue EU-style imperialism in trade. And what that means, of course, is that—and she said it herself—we're not going to tell people in other countries how to run their farms. That's what they said. So, what they're going to do is to reduce tariffs as the only objective of policy, and it doesn't matter what impact that has on animal welfare, on forced labour. It doesn't matter what the impact is on the destruction of the environment, because we have a values-free trade policy. We have a trade policy that focuses in on tariffs but doesn't focus in on values and who we are as a country, who we are as a people. And it also doesn't focus in on delivering protection for farmers in this case, we've seen the way they let down the fishing industry, and they will let down every other industry. We saw the same thing in steel in recent days. The only people they will protect are the financiers of the City of London who provide them with their donations.

In closing, Presiding Officer, let me say this. It is one of the important matters of all Members here, including Darren Millar, that we protect the rights and privileges that we have as Members of this place, and that means that we do protect the settlement that was voted for on a number of occasions by the people of Wales, and a settlement that was endorsed last month in this election when this party won a majority. And I look forward to seeing you voting to implement the Labour manifesto, let me say. But what we have to do—and I will conclude with this—is to protect the powers and the responsibilities that we have here. There hasn't been a flood of new powers down the M4. We haven't seen that. What we've seen is UK Government Ministers putting up their flags, singing their songs and telling direct lies to the people of this country, to the UK Parliament and to this Parliament as well. And in doing that, Darren, you might have won a level of freedom or independence—call it what you want—but you've debased our politics. 

Photo of Gareth Davies Gareth Davies Conservative 5:19, 23 June 2021

I'm really proud of the fact that my constituency voted overwhelmingly to leave the EU. At the time in 2016 of the referendum, the Vale of Clwyd had a Labour Assembly Member who disagreed with the outcome of the vote, and like her colleagues on the Labour and Plaid benches, they did all they could to undermine Brexit. Aberavon, Alyn and Deeside, Blaenau Gwent, Bridgend, Caerphilly, Clwyd South, Cynon Valley, Delyn, Wrexham—the list goes on.

Today, the Vale of Clwyd is represented in both Parliaments by the Welsh Conservatives—Welsh Conservatives who respect the wishes of their constituents and have pledged to do all we can to ensure Brexit is a success. Unfortunately for the people of my constituency, and many other 'leave'-voting constituencies, Labour chose to waste the past five years trying to circumvent the referendum. Instead of abiding by the wishes of the 56.5 per cent of my constituents who decided Wales was better off outside the European Union, Labour, with the help of Plaid, tried every conceivable trick to keep us under the heel of Brussels. Apart from jobs for the boys, our membership of the EU has failed to deliver real benefits for my constituency or our nation. Yes, we received billions of pounds in structural funds, but those schemes totally failed to secure lasting benefits for the people of Wales in general, and my constituents in particular.

The Vale of Clwyd is home to the poorest ward in Wales, and the highest proportion of the most deprived, lower super output areas. We have the third highest rate of premature deaths in Wales; 37 per cent of our adult population have a long-term limiting health condition; a staggering 23 per cent of children fail to achieve the foundation phase; and we have the highest percentage of adults claiming benefits in Wales. Our membership of the EU didn't deliver improvements to the lives of my constituents. In fact, the membership of the moribund protectionist bloc has held us back.

Five years ago, the majority of the voting public voted to throw off the yoke of the dysfunctional bureaucracy and look to a wider world. We voted to free ourselves from rules designed to benefit French farmers and German car manufacturers rather than shop owners in Prestatyn and B&B operators in Rhyl. Instead of listening to their voters and the people of this great union, Labour have chosen to do all they can to undermine our future outside the EU. The Welsh Government have done all they can to keep us shackled to the EU's red tape and bureaucracy. Thankfully, we have a Conservative Government at the helm of the UK—a Conservative Government that is determined to leave behind the protectionism of the EU and pursue tariff-free trade with the wider world. In comparison, our Welsh Government threatened to damage free trade between UK home nations by proposing the UK internal market Act. If they had the power to do so, this Welsh Government would drag us back to a stagnating European Union, but thankfully that's not within their gift.

It's now time the Welsh Government and their little helpers stopped trying to overturn the referendum and started focusing on the important task of ensuring Wales reaps the benefits brought about by our exit from the EU. The UK Government have already secured trade agreements with nearly 70 nations. They are replacing structural funding programmes that failed our nation with a shared prosperity scheme that will ensure every part of Wales benefits from our economic growth as we become a more outward-looking nation. And I urge the Welsh Government to stop ignoring the people of Wales and to start working to deliver the benefits of Brexit. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat 5:23, 23 June 2021

I have learnt a lot in the last five years, and I think one of the most important things that I've learnt is that people want us to stop getting at each other, to work with each other, and to concentrate on the future of the people of Wales.

I have to say I am surprised at the tone of some of the remarks in this debate, and I guess I don't think they're necessary. Brexit was divisive and painful; let's rise above those times. I want to concentrate on the present and how we can continue to support our people in Wales, including farmers and businesses. I hope we see this as an opportunity and a need to simplify arrangements for businesses that import and export to Europe. Some are really struggling with the new regulations and rules, which is a concern given the economic impact of the pandemic. There is also a need to create new governance arrangements and standards, focusing on environmental protections and food standards. Opportunities need to be created and enabled by the UK Government, working with the Welsh Government. And finally, for our farmers, this is a quote from the chair of the Farmers Union of Wales:

'so in a deal that allowed damaging access for Australian foodstuffs we would be gaining very little and selling our farmers and standards down the river, all for the sake of a Government press release saying "we’ve got a trade deal".'

Can I, in finishing, respectfully appeal to my colleagues in the Conservatives that they liaise with Conservatives in Westminster to ensure that trade deals really deliver a good deal for our Welsh farmers and that doesn't sell them down the river? Please, let's talk to each other and about each other with respect. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 5:25, 23 June 2021

I felt compelled to make a contribution to this debate, largely because, like Jane, I have been struck by the tone of much of what I have heard here today. Maybe it's his naturally jovial temperament, but I almost thought Darren Millar was just enjoying this—rubbing our faces in it, if you like, five years on from that referendum result.

There were serious consequences to that result. We have moved on, we have left the European Union, but anybody who denies those serious consequences is doing a real disservice to the people of their own constituencies—and yes, I know you want to make a mark here in this new Parliament, but you're doing a disservice to Wales.

Let me just mention quickly the food sector in my constituency. Any deal—and yes, there are a number of them, Darren Millar—any deal is not necessarily a good deal, and I know how concerned farmers in my constituency are about the consequences of that Australian deal. I know how devastated shellfish farmers have been in my constituency because of the impact of leaving the European Union. I can tell you about one food exporter in my constituency—excellent exporter. Thirty per cent of its ice cream would go to the European Union. It would take an order, it would put together that order—small-ish batches, altogether coming to big orders, creating jobs and maintaining jobs in my constituency. They'd take the order and they would fulfil it. Now, they take the order—you can't send small batches to European Union countries anymore, you have to fill a wagon, because you bring a vet—a vet—into your factory here on Anglesey and in your constituencies to pass off that ice cream and sign it off. Then you have an export agent; then you have an import agent in the country that you're exporting to. One load of ice cream had to be sent three times before it was allowed into the Netherlands. The manufacturer didn't make a penny on that export load, and the reality now is that that company will not be exporting, probably, in the future. Now, that is a serious consequence of leaving the European Union, whether you voted for that or not.

Now, I'm serious about seeking the best for Wales in this new context, but a lot of what we have heard today has been pretty desperate jingoism and Wales and the Senedd deserve better than that.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:29, 23 June 2021

(Translated)

I call the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution, Mick Antoniw.

Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour

Diolch, Llywydd. In the five years since the referendum, we've debated the outcome on numerous occasions. Each time, we have made it clear that we respect the outcome of that referendum. In fact, we respect it more than the Members opposite, because we also respect the outcome together with the promises that were made to protect Wales and the Welsh economy. The Members opposite show a contemptuous disregard for those promises and I cannot recall a single occasion when they have stood up for Wales, even when it became blatantly clear that those promises were being violated.

We have spent five years working as constructively as possible, providing evidence-based analyses and policy, time and time again, in an attempt to do whatever we could to make sure that the outcome that the UK Government negotiated mitigated the economic, cultural and social damage to Wales as far as was possible, and, throughout, we have been consistently clear that the deal negotiated by the UK Government failed to protect the Welsh economy and Welsh workers from the economic upheaval that we time and time again predicted.

Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 5:30, 23 June 2021

Yet, with a competent and caring UK Government, it could have been so, so different. Instead, we have been delivered a trade agreement of gargantuan incompetence, which now threatens our economic and political stability, the fragmentation of the UK, and the undermining of peace in Northern Ireland.

The impact on our economy is clear: reduced trade, as the Office for Budgetary Responsibility is forecasting, and, as a result of the EU trade agreement, that both exports and imports will be around 15 per cent lower in the UK; a hit to the UK's long-term productivity, with the OBR forecasting productivity to fall by 4 per cent as a consequence of the trade agreement; trade being diverted away from the ports in Wales, with volumes of trade remaining well below historic levels, as goods are incentivised to move directly through Northern Ireland into GB markets.

Major implications to key sectors in Wales: food and drink exports to the EU down 47 per cent in the first quarter of 2021; new barriers to trade for live seafood exports to our main markets in Europe, which are threatening the existence of entire sectors in Wales. Risks from the UK Government's approach to new trade deals: the agreement with Australia poses significant risks to the agri-food sector in Wales, which could face competition from increased imports from Australian beef and lamb producers, who do not have to meet the same standards as our producers in areas like animal welfare. 

And, as we debated here last week, despite the promises made at the time of the referendum and afterwards, the UK Government is pursuing an agenda of aggressive centralisation and attacking Welsh devolution, and they do not even hide it. The only people who don't seem to be aware of it are the Welsh Conservatives.

Using the financial assistance powers of the internal market Act, powers that were designed to seize functions that sit within the competence of the Senedd and Welsh Government, they are robbing the people of Wales of money that we were promised and are entitled to. Wales may receive as little as £10 million through the shared prosperity fund in its pilot year of 2021, when we would have had access to at least £375 million annually from January 2021 for new EU structural funds programmes, on top of the receipts for commitments to projects that we've already made via the current EU funding programmes.

Neither is there any substance to the UK levelling-up fund, with local authorities in Wales likely to receive less than £450,000 a year. Not only do these funds represent a huge cut from what Wales could have expected to receive, they also represent a blatant power grab, which goes against what was decided by the UK Parliament in the Government of Wales Acts and endorsed in two referenda, which the Welsh Conservatives so easily seem to forget.

There is no doubt that Wales's public funding, our economy and our devolution settlement have all been dramatically damaged by the UK Government's approach since the referendum. In fact, the UK Government's so-called plan for Wales—a plan where there wasn't even the decency to engage and consult with the Welsh Government—shows the absolute contempt that they have for this Parliament.

And yet the Welsh Conservatives, or, should I say—really, their true name now—the Conservative Party in Wales, continue to try and spread the falsehood that the UK Government has actually transferred powers to this Senedd as a result of Brexit. That is false, and they know it. Those were already our powers, exercised at EU level with our consent, which we were promised would legally return to us once we left the EU.

The Tory power grab is for one reason alone: to secure powers in Wales that they cannot achieve through the ballot box. I have to say Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump would be absolutely proud of what you are doing, because you not only undermine devolution, you continue to undermine democracy and the rule of law, and, in doing so, you've accelerated a process that is rapidly leading to the break-up of the UK. Llywydd, it doesn't have to be this way. The Tories can change their ways and they can repent and start to stand up for Wales. After all, there is more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than 99 just persons who need no repentance.

Llywydd, we have a vision of a strong Wales in a successful UK, in a radically transformed union, a voluntary union of nations, founded on common purpose and shared prosperity, and celebrating the common interests and solidarity of working people and families across the UK. We will be setting out our updated vision shortly, when we publish the second edition of 'Reforming our Union: Shared Governance in the UK', and, after that, I'll be making a statement to the Senedd, describing in more detail the steps that we will be taking to establish a new constitutional commission to stimulate wider debate through a national civic conversation, a conversation and engagement with the people of Wales. We will engage widely, right across Wales. We want to ensure that our citizens have the opportunity to shape how we make decisions at all levels of government about issues that affect their lives, that matter to them, and determine the future of our relationship with the nations and regions of the UK.

Llywydd, our future post Brexit, our constitution, our sovereignty, belong to the people of Wales and no-one else, and I call on Members to support the Government amendment, to work with us to promote, amplify and enrich the national conversation that we are about to embark upon. Diolch, Llywydd.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:36, 23 June 2021

(Translated)

James Evans to reply to the debate.

Photo of James Evans James Evans Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. And not a single person opposite in Labour or Plaid Cymru has talked about the positives of Brexit, and it's a shame. The Minister talks about undermining democracy. I'll take no lectures from Labour about undermining democracy, because that's what your party have been doing for the last five years.

Five years ago today, the people of Wales and the United Kingdom, they stood up to the elites, the academics, the champagne socialists and the doomsday predictors, both in the UK and across the world. And, as my Conservative colleagues have said, the people rose up against the establishment and voted to leave the European Union. And, as has been said, it was the biggest democratic vote in our country's history. And Mr Rhys ab Owen talks about respect—it's a shame Plaid Cymru cannot respect the will of the British and Welsh people. As we've seen, project fear knew no bounds, because the doomsday forecasters were all around. We were told we would have no food, no medicine, no imports, no exports and our stock markets would crash. And the people who sit in this place pushed that scaremongering agenda, and, five years on, those people who predicted doom were proven wrong. Many who sat in here, and across the UK, spent the last five years trying to stop democracy and stop the will of the people of Wales and the United Kingdom who voted to leave. Thankfully, in 2019, as my colleague Darren Miller has said, the British people endorsed the Conservative Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, overwhelmingly voting Conservative for the first time right across Wales to get Brexit done, and, by God, we got Brexit done.

Labour talk about centralisation and a power grab. This Conservative Government in Westminster wants to level up the whole of Wales, and the problem is that the Conservatives don't trust this Labour Welsh Government to level up the whole of Wales. It'll be focused in your Labour heartlands, abandoning people and their communities for years to come.

I myself campaigned to leave the European Union, along with many others on these Conservative benches, and wider, who believed we were better off outside the European Union. As my colleague Gareth Davies has said, his constituents said the EU held them back. So, we went out there, we pounded the streets with a positive message of Wales outside the European Union, taking control, as Sam Rowlands has said, of our borders, our money and our laws, free from the shackles of unelected commissioners who are accountable to no-one. We on these Conservative benches, as mentioned by Mark Isherwood, look forward to a global vision for Wales as part of a global United Kingdom, grasping those opportunities, reaching into emerging markets and using our influence for good in an ever-changing world.

As has been mentioned by my colleagues, the British Government has launched an incredible trade department, which has negotiated roll-over deals with countries from around the world. And we secured that deal with the EU, which many of you in this Chamber and wider said was not possible, and that secured billions of pounds to our economy. But do we see any praise from the politicians opposite? No, we don't.

Delyth Jewell spoke of an opportunity lost. And let's remind ourselves: from Grenada to Guatemala, Japan to Jordan, Canada to Cameroon, global Great Britain is well and truly back, helping our businesses to export to emerging markets all over the world and growing our economy. Now it's the time for everyone, regardless of your views, to accept the result and embrace the change and the positive benefits that Brexit can bring to Wales. [Interruption.] It's a shame that Joyce Watson is still chuntering on about this being a Tory Brexit. Well, I will remind you, Joyce, this isn't a Tory Brexit, this is what the people of Wales voted for. Alun Davies talks of dishonesty—this comes from a man that no more than half an hour ago said the Welsh Labour Government were going to invest in his community and haven't. So, I won't talk about dishonesty from Alun Davies. I think you need to look a bit closer—[Interruption.] I think you should look a bit closer to home, Mr Davies, if you want to look at dishonesty. Welsh politicians now have wide—[Interruption.] Oh, Alun, give it a rest. Welsh politicians now—

Photo of James Evans James Evans Conservative

—have wide-ranging new powers transferred from the EU and, I hope, that we all believe are best decided by those elected here in Wales for the Welsh people. That is what Plaid Cymru want, so I hope you support that. From agriculture to sport to air quality, flood-risk management to forestry, the Welsh Government now has an arsenal to make these regulations work for Wales and get rid of the over-bureaucratic EU red tape in order to improve our nation and the lives of the people of Wales.

Politicians of all colours can no longer shy away from the difficult decisions or the policy choices. We can't blame the EU for their inaction or failings. Now, we all have a responsibility for our actions and to produce the results that the people of Wales want. I'd love to say that I have more confidence in this Government with the powers it has to improve the lives of the people of Wales, to boost employment, to grow the economy and make this a Wales that works for everyone, but I don't. But I am a positive person, Llywydd, and I hope to be convinced by the Government, but the proposed UBI, a tourism tax and a ban on roads makes me wonder whatever is coming next. And I will sum up, Llywydd.

It's ironic, though, that the socialist Welsh Labour Government, the nationalists in Plaid Cymru—and most likely supported by the sole Lib Dem, whatever they support this week—have done their standard 'delete all' to our motion and put forward their negative narrative about Brexit, even though most of their constituencies voted to leave. And Alun Davies, you've chuntered all the way through, and your constituency voted overwhelmingly to leave. Yet again you were quite happy to accept the result when they voted—

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:43, 23 June 2021

I think you did—. I think you did promise me that you were bringing it to an end—

Photo of James Evans James Evans Conservative

Yes, I'll finish up now, Llywydd. So, let's make the most of this historic vote—

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

—but then you decided to tackle Alun Davies again.

Photo of James Evans James Evans Conservative

—and build a Wales—. Let's build a Wales that the people of our country deserve: a global Wales, a strong and prosperous Wales, a Wales in a strong, global Britain, a Wales that delivers for the people's priorities. Diolch, Llywydd.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Okay. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There are objections. We will therefore defer voting until voting time.

(Translated)

Voting deferred until voting time.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:44, 23 June 2021

(Translated)

And we will now move to voting time, but we will take a short break to prepare for the vote.

(Translated)

Plenary was suspended at 17:44.

(Translated)

The Senedd reconvened at 17:48, with the Llywydd in the Chair.