3. What legal advice has the Counsel General given to the Welsh Ministers regarding responsibility for higher risk coal tips? OQ57039

I thank the Member for the question, again on a very important subject. The safety of our communities is paramount and we continue to work at pace to address coal tip safety. The Coal Authority and local authorities undertake regular inspections on the higher-risk tips and ensure any other maintenance works are identified.

Thank you. Now, last week, you'll be aware that more disused coal tips in Wales were classified as now being at higher risk. Numbers are up from 295 to 327. Now, whilst I welcome the fact that inspections on higher-risk tips have commenced, the Welsh Government are still arguing over where the extra £500 million to £600 million needed over the next 10 to 15 years is going to come from. The Minister for finance, in passing the buck, is using the line that, as a pre-devolution issue, we need the UK Government to share responsibility and prevent another landslip from happening. However, the Law Commission's 'Regulating Coal Tip Safety in Wales' consultation paper states:

'In our provisional view coal tip safety falls within devolved competence.... Matters relating to the environment, flood risk management and land drainage are not reserved.'

So, do you agree with the view of the Law Commission that coal tip safety does fall within this devolved administration, and when will you be advising Ministers that they really do need to start looking at the funds to make these coal tips safe? Thank you.

Can I thank you for that interesting supplementary question and statement? You've very selectively chosen from the Law Commission report, because there is far more detail about the issues of complexity, about the complexity of law and the confusion of law since the privatisation of the coal industry and all the consequences since then, from the National Coal Board to British Coal, through the 1994 Act and then through to the Coal Authority now. 

Perhaps in answer to that, I should take you back to your actual question, which was a question about the advice that's given with regard to responsibility for higher-risk coal tips. And, of course, the term 'responsibility' has a very broad understanding. There are various forms of responsibility, and I believe the UK Government has a responsibility—an ethical responsibility. I think it has a moral responsibility, and I believe it has a political and potentially a legal responsibility in the coal tips that exist. And I live in a constituency that has quite a number of these particular coal tips.

Can I say, I think it is an absolute disgrace that the UK Government continues not to accept that this issue of coal tip legacy is a pre-devolution issue aggravated by climate change? And I hear the sort of weasel words from the UK Government about this, and that you are repeating today, and I have to say to you, what message do you think you are giving to the people of the Valleys of south Wales, the people where these coal tips exist in those communities, with the total abrogation of any liability—ethical, moral or political—in respect of that? Now, the First Minister mentioned yesterday that this was one of key two issues that he raised with the Prime Minister. And I have to say, instead of this highly sensitive matter being a subject of contention, it ought to be a defining example of how the UK Government can work with us to develop effective benefits from inter-governmental working, particularly so in the context of the UK hosting COP26.

If the UK Government does not agree to a funding programme, we are going to have to find £600 million from budgets over the next 10 to 15 years—money that has come to us to build hospitals, to build roads, to build schools, and to do many other things. And I have to say to you, if there was ever an opportunity for a UK Government to be able to demonstrate to the people of Wales the dividend that comes with being in the United Kingdom, joint working with us on coal tips would surely be it. That is the test, I think, you should be taking back to your Government in Westminster, and, I think, the people of south Wales, the people who live in the communities where these coal tips are, will be listening very, very carefully to the response that comes from the UK Government on this moral, ethical and political issue. 

Tomorrow will mark 55 years since the coal tip above Aberfan collapsed and killed a school full of children and teachers, and, in the 55 years since, the task of removing other coal tips from our mountainsides is still unfinished. I note that some have asked the Welsh Government to carry the burden of making these tips safe, a burden that should have been carried by Westminster decades ago. Counsel General, I'd instead ask you whether you will renew your calls on the UK Government to foot this bill of betrayal, since, after all, coal used to be known as black gold. The almost unimaginable wealth was taken from Wales, and we were left with the dust, the filth and catastrophe. Why should Wales have to pay to clear up the mess and the horror left behind? 

Can I thank the Member for that further supplementary comment? I agree, and I believe that if the UK Government does not honour its obligations to the people in the mining communities who live with these coal tips, and accept the responsibility that is there, it will be an indication of yet another betrayal by the UK Conservative Government.  

Question 4, Janet Finch-Saunders. 

I'm withdrawing this question, please. 

Is there any reason for withdrawing it at this late stage?

It's a very sensitive topic—something's arisen since. So, I won't be asking it, if that's okay.

Okay. You've intrigued us with that reason. I must say that it's not good practice to be withdrawing a question at such a late stage, especially when you're in the Chamber at that point. 

Question 4 [OQ57049] not asked.

Question 5, Rhys ab Owen.