5. What steps has the Counsel General taken to ensure the law council of Wales's independence from Government? OQ57036

Thank you for the question on the law council of Wales. We have been clear from the outset that it is essential the law council is fully independent of Government. While we have facilitated its inception, the Welsh Government will not be a member of the council, and it will be for the council to determine its constitution and its working arrangements.

I welcome the establishment of the law council of Wales. I think there's great potential there. As you mentioned earlier, a strong and sustainable legal sector in Wales is very important for several different reasons. It's been shown during the COVID pandemic how important technology is. And, in the legal sector, we haven't always been very good with technology, as you know, Counsel General. When I started in practice, several lawyers had never touched a computer, and the fax machine was used until very, very recently. Does the Counsel General agree with me that the law council should prioritise digital innovation and technical needs assessment as part of its work programme? Diolch yn fawr.  

Thank you for the supplementary question. I think, by my understanding, there are still quite a few lawyers around who have never touched a computer, but I'm sure that changes with time.

I think you're absolutely right—we're already beginning to have the experience of the digital developments in terms of giving evidence, in terms of the transmission of evidence, digital use in the way in which documents are made available and accessible within courts and so on. My big concern—and it's an issue that I discussed when I visited the Cardiff Civil Justice Centre recently, and it's an issue I've discussed with others and will have in other discussions in due course with members of the judiciary—is the issue of accessibility and equality that emerges from it, because it's one thing for the lawyers to have their systems well digitised, but it's also, though, a question of ensuring that people have access to the courts, and that they also have the right, I think, to face-to-face court hearings, rather than digital ones, et cetera.

There may be circumstances in terms of how that is actually managed. But what is very clear at the moment is that, with the number of courts that have been closed, against the wishes of this Senedd, and I believe without any proper and adequate consultation processes, we now have large sections of many communities in south Wales that have very limited access. And they're being told that, of course, the way forward is digital access. Well, certainly in my constituency, and I know it's the same in other similar constituencies in south Wales and, I'm sure, many other areas, when you've got between 20 and 30 per cent of the population not actually having access, or regular access, to a computer, there are some serious equality issues that have to be raised. 

There is no doubt, though, that there are opportunities in that. Just as we see opportunities arise within the provision of health services, it's the same with legal services. I remember the absolute horror when we were told we could have telephone hearings with district judges, and the shock and awe that that statement had. And, of course, within a matter of weeks, it had actually become something totally normal. Well, of course, we go much further than that, but of course it does require investment. Now, there are proposals and there is money that's been made available for that investment, but I think we have to ensure that it's tied in with the modernisation of the courts and on a very clear equality agenda. And that is an agenda that I intend to raise at every opportunity that I have.