1. Business Statement and Announcement

– in the Senedd at 1:31 pm on 29 March 2022.

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Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 1:31, 29 March 2022

(Translated)

The first item this afternoon is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd, Lesley Griffiths. 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. There are several changes to this week's business. Firstly, the Minister for Social Justice will make a statement shortly to update Members on the Homes for Ukraine scheme. Secondly, I have withdrawn the statements on the update on COVID-19 and on building safety. 

The Deputy Minister for Climate Change will deliver the statement on coal tip safety. And, finally, I have added debates on the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 7) Regulations 2022 and (No. 8) regulations 2022, for which a suspension of Standing Orders will be required. 

Photo of James Evans James Evans Conservative

Trefnydd, recently Brecon Beacons National Park Authority held a vote of no confidence in a number of Welsh Government-appointed members. Locally there is much discontent with how the national park is being run and the role of Welsh Government-appointed members. So, could I please have a statement from the Minister for Climate Change about what the Welsh Government is doing to support the Brecon Beacons national park, and how it appoints Welsh Government members to these bodies? Diolch, Dirprwy Llywydd. 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:32, 29 March 2022

I'm aware the Minister for Climate Change is keeping a very close eye on what is going on in the Brecon Beacons national park, but I don't think it's appropriate to have a statement at the current time. 

Photo of Delyth Jewell Delyth Jewell Plaid Cymru

Trefnydd, some weeks ago I asked for a statement about how residents in the south-east have to travel long distances for hospital appointments. I highlighted the issue of diagnostic breast procedures being only carried out in Ysbyty Ystrad Fawr. I've been contacted by another constituent, who had to attend a gynaecology appointment at Nevill Hall Hospital. Now, she lives in Caerphilly, and the car journey took her more than an hour, with a round trip of 56 miles. She's able to drive, but she was anxious that she might not find the hospital in time because it was outside her area, but she was told it was the only gynaecology clinic for the entire Aneurin Bevan trust. As I'm sure you appreciate, Trefnydd, 50 per cent of the people living in the area are women; they'll require a gynaecology appointment at some point. So, I'd like to ask for a statement again please that will explain why my constituent had to travel that distance when Ysbyty Ystrad Fawr was only around 4 miles down the road from where she lives. Could we please look again at how our hospital services are configured, so that patients who are already under stress don't have to either spend long periods in the car to get to their appointments, or hours more on buses if they can't drive?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:33, 29 March 2022

Thank you. Well, obviously, I'm not aware of the specific case that you refer to, but I think the point you make around the configuration of services across a health board is very important and is something for which each health board is obviously responsible, to make sure that the services are available for the population that they serve. Clearly, with some more specialised services, we don't expect to have each service in each hospital. You refer to gynaecology services in this particular case, and I don't know if it is more general or more special, but configuration of services is something that a health board is responsible for for its local population. 

Photo of Jane Dodds Jane Dodds Liberal Democrat 1:34, 29 March 2022

Good afternoon, Minister. I wonder if I could ask for two statements please, with the first statement from the Minister for Education and Welsh Language about financial support for small and rural schools. Unions this week have raised the concerns that I raised during the budget process about the removal of the SRSG—the small and rural schools grant—and that the additional funding provided to local authorities through the SRSG isn't reaching schools. 

And, secondly, I wonder if you could make a statement on the situation with regard to the National Farmers Union losing their court case with regard to the water resources regulations, and what financial support is now being made available to support the agricultural sector to adapt to these regulations? Thank you. Diolch.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:35, 29 March 2022

Thank you. In relation to the small and rural schools grant, the Member will be aware that £2.5 million has been put forward over the previous Senedd term to encourage innovation and increase school-to-school working. It was a very specific grant, and I know that local authorities were made aware from the outset that the grant was time limited, and they submitted their plans for expenditure and sustainability on that basis. The grant was due to end at the end of March last year—2021—but, to support transition, the Welsh Government extended the grant by a further year. And I know the Minister has been in discussions with local authorities, and I don't think there's been any pushback from local authorities regarding the ending of the grant, because schools and the local authorities were made aware of it.

In relation to your second question, obviously, that falls within my portfolio, and I certainly welcomed the judgment that was given by the court last Thursday. I will continue to work with the farming unions to reduce the impact of agriculture and other pollutants. We had another very significant agricultural pollution, which was substantiated straight away, last week. So, I think it's really important if we're all going to work together to tackle the pollution that we're seeing in our waters. But it's equally important, of course, that we do support the farming industry, going forward, and I will continue with those discussions. Under the co-operation agreement the Welsh Government has with Plaid Cymru, this is an area where we have committed to work not just with ourselves but, again, with the industry to target those activities that are known to cause pollution. We need to protect our environment for future generations, and what this ruling does is enable us to really carry on with that important work.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 1:37, 29 March 2022

Just two items to raise. First of all, Trefnydd, Saturday's National League football match at the Racecourse was a phenomenal event—you and I were both present at it, along with almost 9,000 spectators. And it once again demonstrated how the world's oldest international football stadium can host dramatic and sensational events. Would the Government commit to pressing for the return of international matches to the Racecourse as soon as possible?

And also, Trefnydd, just across from the Racecourse—indeed, part of the Racecourse is included—is the Wrexham gateway project, to which the Welsh Government has already committed a huge amount of money. Although we've been promised levelling-up funding from the UK Government, this isn't yet to materialise. Would you be able to make a statement on whether you believe the UK Government is in a position to fund this vitally important regeneration project, or is it just warm words that we're hearing?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:38, 29 March 2022

Thank you. The match on Saturday was certainly absolutely extraordinary. I was chatting to Llyr Huws Gruffydd about it over lunch. I'm still smiling. In my 50 years of attending the Racecourse, I've never seen anything quite like it. I think you make a really important point. As a child, that's where I went to watch international matches, and, of course, with the success that the Wales football team have had over the past few years in particular, I think the players have made Cardiff City Stadium their fortress, if you like. I think, last week—. Again, we were talking at lunchtime, saying we can't imagine football crowds singing like that 20 years ago, and singing in Welsh. And I think that says a lot about the way people have really taken this Welsh national football team to their hearts. But I know the new chief executive at the Football Association of Wales is very keen to see games played at the Racecourse. I think it's very important for us in north Wales that those games are played, even if they're only friendly games, in the coming years. So, I'm sure the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport, and Chief Whip will certainly continue to press that with the Football Association of Wales.

You refer to the levelling-up funding bid that has been submitted in relation to the Wrexham gateway. Unfortunately, we know, despite the UK Government's promise we wouldn't have a penny less if we left the European Union, that's not the case. The funding that is available to the UK Government is much less than had we remained in the European Union. I think it's really vital that the UK Government work with the Welsh Government, and other devolved Governments, around the levelling-up fund. It's got to be a genuine partnership if it's going to work; we don't want a fragmented funding landscape. So, I think it's really important that we do see that funding. I know the second bid is in, and I think it's by June that that funding bid has to be in by.

Photo of Laura Anne Jones Laura Anne Jones Conservative 1:39, 29 March 2022

Good afternoon, business Minister. I'd like to call for a statement from the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the recently released interim report by the Cass review. The interim report highlighted several concerning issues that need to be dealt with and discussed by elected officials and professionals. Some of the findings raised in the report highlighted the lack of consensus and open discussion about the nature of gender dysphoria and, therefore, the appropriate clinical response. It is now clear to me that, in light of the interim Cass report, there should be a review of services in Wales for gender questioning children and adolescents. This has been overlooked by the Welsh Government, and it needs to be rectified urgently. Therefore, I'd ask for a statement, please, Minister. 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:40, 29 March 2022

Thank you. I know the Minister for Health and Social Services and both the Deputy Ministers are obviously aware of the report or working through the report, and I'm sure, at the most opportune time, will come forward with further information. 

Photo of Heledd Fychan Heledd Fychan Plaid Cymru

Trefnydd, I would like to ask for a statement, please. It relates to postal services delivered by the Royal Mail and how the Welsh Government can exert pressure for services to be improved. It is an issue that I have previously corresponded with the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership on, as I know that she regularly meets with the Royal Mail, and she has, and I'm grateful for this, made representations previously on behalf of constituents. However, services in many parts of the Rhondda in particular are sporadic, with deliveries in recent months being once a fortnight in areas such as Glynfach, according to a local resident, which also means that important documents are being missed or not received at all. This also related to vaccination appointments. I would be grateful for a statement to see how we can influence the Royal Mail on this, please. Thank you. 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:41, 29 March 2022

Thank you. I think you said that you'd already made representations direct to the Deputy Minister. As you are aware, Royal Mail is obviously a reserved issue, but we do all obviously rely on postal services in a way that you've just described, and, I think, during the pandemic, we've relied on them even more. I'm sure, if you have made representations to the Deputy Minister, she will respond to you. 

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 1:42, 29 March 2022

(Translated)

I'm very pleased to welcome back Altaf Hussain.

Photo of Altaf Hussain Altaf Hussain Conservative

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer and Minister. I am grateful, and it is nice to be back here, one among you. Minister, you will be aware of a recent internal audit report at Bridgend council that exposed the payment of £316,192 to a company for home insulation work, where the director was a Labour council cabinet member, and where the moneys were paid to a company that the auditors could not establish had actually existed. I believe that South Wales Police should be investigating it. I have called for them to do so. Will the Government make a statement in the Chamber, setting out how Welsh procurement policies will be tightened to reduce the chance of this occurring again? Thank you very much. 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:43, 29 March 2022

Thank you, and it is very nice to see you back in the Chamber. I think you've done the right thing by writing directly to the local authority. Procurement is an important matter, which the Minister for Finance and Local Government is doing a big piece of work on within our programme for government, and I'm sure this is something that could be looked at. 

Photo of Cefin Campbell Cefin Campbell Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Trefnydd, may I ask for a statement on digital connectivity in rural areas, which has a major impact on citizens in the region that I represent, namely Mid and West Wales? As we all know, the additional top-up that the Welsh Government has been providing to the voucher system from the Westminster Government is coming to an end on Thursday of this week, and that, of course, leads to a great deal of uncertainty, because I have had several people contacting me over the past weeks and months complaining that the provision in some rural areas is still unsatisfactory. Community councils, for example, have contacted me to say that they can't hold virtual meetings or hybrid meetings because of the lack of adequate broadband connectivity, and individuals and businesses also have contacted to complain about the same issue. Now, I know that this top-up is coming to an end and that you are reviewing the voucher system. So, can we have a statement with regard to what the intentions of the Welsh Government are to support the communities that are still suffering, to provide certainty for the future? Thank you. 

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:44, 29 March 2022

Thank you. I think you do raise a very important point, and, again, during the pandemic it's been highlighted, the difficulties in some of our rural areas in particular—and not just rural, but urban areas too. But, I think, with rural areas, I've certainly been lobbied by small businesses, for instance, who haven't been able to improve their website takings in the way that they would have wanted to. So, I think it is an important issue. You'll be aware, again, as a Government, that we've had to plug the gaps that the UK Government left behind in relation to providing more broadband, and as you say there is a review currently being undertaken by the Deputy Minister for Climate Change.

Photo of Mike Hedges Mike Hedges Labour 1:45, 29 March 2022

I would like to ask for two statements. I've received a lot of complaints regarding hospital food, not just in Morriston Hospital, which is very near to me, but in hospitals across south Wales. I would like a Government statement on hospital food, to cover quality, quantity, how ward managers are implementing the policy that allows relatives and friends to help those who need help to eat—I've been told, although it's a policy of the health boards, it's a policy of the Welsh Government, by the time it gets down to ward managers, that policy disappears—and also on the quantity of waste food, which I understand from people who've been visiting patients in hospital is substantial.

I would also like to ask for a Government statement on public transport in the Swansea bay city region. We've had recent statements on the north Wales and Cardiff metro, can we have one on the creation of the Swansea bay city region metro? I realise it's much more complicated, as does the Deputy Presiding Officer, because travel in our area is not linear. There's quite a lot of Valleys down and from Swansea up into the Valleys communities, and also from Carmarthenshire into Swansea, Neath Port Talbot, and also the other way around. It's not unidirectional, which is what the Cardiff bay metro is predominantly. It's multidirectional and that does make it much more complicated, but it doesn't make it less of a problem for me and my colleagues, such as you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and the Member representing Neath.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 1:47, 29 March 2022

That won't get you any more time, Mike. [Laughter.]

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour

Thank you, Mike. I think you raise a very important point about hospital food. When I was health Minister, I always used to say that food is just as important as medicine. It's really important that patients have proper quality of food, and it is an issue that I know the Minister for health is looking at. We're also looking at procurement. I go back to an earlier answer around procurement. That's part of the process that the Minister for Finance and Local Government is looking at too. You may be aware that NHS Improvement England is currently undertaking a comprehensive NHS catering review, and I know NHS Wales representatives attend those review meetings. Once that review has been completed, it's going to be assessed, and then here in Wales we will consider what best practice and guidance can be rolled out and adopted right across NHS Wales. 

In relation to the Swansea bay city region, or the Swansea bay and west Wales metro, I think, is the correct title, we are in the very early stages of development of the three metro projects—north Wales, south Wales, and the Swansea bay one. It is an important part of achieving our modal-shift targets. If we are going to meet our net-zero targets, it's very important that we do this, and we are working very closely with Transport for Wales to accelerate it.

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative 1:48, 29 March 2022

Trefnydd, I notice many of my colleagues asking for statements during business statement, but I never see those statements, actually, frankly, coming from this. But I'm going to formally request a statement from the Deputy Minister for transport Lee Waters, and I would also like to put on record my utmost disappointment that our Deputy Llywydd didn't see fit to allow this to be an urgent question.

Now, my question is in relation—[Interruption.] You weren't there, I was.

It's in relation to the severe and chaotic delays that were encountered by hundreds of passengers yesterday due to a rail operational incident at Abergavenny. Three trains, several carriages, and hundreds of passengers left stranded on these trains in warm weather conditions with no ventilation. The first train, we were allowed on the platform for a couple of hours. I left my office with a member of staff at 1 o'clock. I arrived in my flat here, in Cardiff, at 10 o'clock last night. It was the most horrendous situation I've ever witnessed: people crying, people anxious to get to their final destination.

In desperation, my colleague Llyr Gruffydd and I took to Twitter, copying in the Deputy Minister, and hour by hour went past with nothing. Frankly, I would have been really ashamed to have been the Deputy Minister, or not to have gone on to Twitter and said, 'Look, I will launch an investigation as to what's gone wrong.' But we were kept with no food, no nourishment, no sustenance or anything.

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative

I am. As you can see, I'm pretty upset about it, because I know someone who missed a funeral, somebody who's lost their job, and frankly, everybody, everybody had a really sad story. Being an hour or two delayed, these things happen. We're talking five or six hours, stuck on a train, unable to do anything. Now I think that it was such a serious issue yesterday that the Deputy Minister should have come forward this morning to actually make a statement. So, it's not your fault, Trefnydd, and I'm not getting annoyed with you, but I do want a statement from Lee Waters and I will pursue, and I shall ask and ask again. The people of Wales, passengers even from England—

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 1:51, 29 March 2022

The Member has made her point. She has gone well beyond her time.

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative

Okay. They deserve a reason for what happened yesterday and I jolly well hope he launches a thorough investigation, because absolutely: do I have any confidence now in Transport for Wales and this Welsh Government's ability to get me here from my constituency? No, I do not.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour

I absolutely agree with you that it was a very difficult journey yesterday for you and for many other people, and I have spoken to other Members who were on that train. I have also spoken with the Deputy Minister for Climate Change, who is very aware of the situation and is meeting with the chair and chief executive of Transport for Wales this afternoon around this issue. He is answering questions tomorrow, the Deputy Minister, in this Chamber, and I'm sure he will be able to give you an update then, because I think that will be much quicker and you will be able to get some answers. I think, from a Transport for Wales point of view, initial investigations have shown it was due to an unexpected operational matter, and they are working around it.

I'm not saying it's acceptable at all; I absolutely appreciate—. I've done that journey many, many, many times myself. I was on a train yesterday morning, so it could have been me. So, I'm absolutely not taking anything away, but we have to work through the process and we have to find out what went wrong. It's very regrettable; it was clearly very, very poor passenger experience.

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 1:52, 29 March 2022

(Translated)

I have to say that last night was the most appalling experience I've ever had in using a train in Wales. The journey, which was supposed to be three hours, was a seven-hour journey. My train was stationary for four hours. That was one train; I know of four other trains in the same situation. No information, because the loudspeaker in my carriage didn't work. And that's the state of our rolling stock at the moment. No alternative transport. Although we'd waited four hours, no arrangements in place to move passengers. There were people who were ill on one of the trains; there were people in tears on my train. Someone did miss a funeral; someone was concerned about the future of their employment because they were late for their shift. I listened to Transport for Wales officers in the committee a fortnight ago, saying, 'Yes, it's challenging, but things are improving.' Do you know what? I don't think I can believe a word they tell us any more. I certainly don't feel that I have any confidence in them at the moment.

I heard that there were other problems again this morning: trains from north to south running late, being cancelled. I had a number of people contacting me on Friday morning, thousands of people trying to travel back to north Wales after the game on Thursday night and there were two carriages. Just two carriages. Didn't Transport for Wales realise that the game was happening?

So, can we have a statement? And a statement—not an opportunity to ask a few supplementaries tomorrow—a statement from the Deputy Minister, because I want him to do three things: first of all, he has to apologise to the people of north Wales for the state of the appalling service that we have to suffer from one day to the next; secondly, I want him to explain to us as a Senedd what he's going to do to resolve this problem in the short term; and third, he needs to explain why we're going to have to wait until the end of the year before we see new stock on the north-south service. Because if the service continues as it is for the next eight months until then, well, there'll be nobody left using the trains from north to south.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:54, 29 March 2022

I think the point that—. You made a different point to Janet Finch-Saunders about no information being made available, and I think if people understand what's happening, that always helps the situation, so I think that is something very specifically that the Deputy Minister should take up at his meeting this afternoon, and I will ensure he's heard what you say. You did refer to the new rolling stock that is due to come in at the end of this year—it's for £800 million-worth—but, as you say, it's really important that we get that brought forward as quickly as possible.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 1:55, 29 March 2022

(Translated)

And finally, Mabon ap Gwynfor.

Photo of Mabon ap Gwynfor Mabon ap Gwynfor Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can we have a statement from you as Minister for agriculture, or, indeed, the economy Minister, about how you're going to promote wool? Wool has seen very difficult times recently. Ten years ago, it sold for £1.25 per kilogram, but two years ago, that price fell to 15p. It's good to see the price increasing again. 

There are a number of steps to take before the weavers can get hold of the wool, from the shearing to the separation—there are more than 10 different grades of wool on every farm, for example—and then it has to be cleaned. Wool is a very flexible material, not only is it an excellent material to make clothes, but also carpets and insulation. But there is much more to it than that. Bangor University has done excellent work looking at the other potential of wool, to be used as packaging and using its chemical properties. It absorbs formaldehyde in the environment and improves air quality, not to mention the linoleum and the keratin in the wool and the fibres. So, there is significant potential and I'd like to hear what steps the Government is going to take to benefit from this flexible use of wool that we have in Wales.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 1:56, 29 March 2022

Thank you. As you said, farmers have seen a big reduction in the price they have been getting for their wool over the past two years. I've been working most closely with the Minister for Climate Change, actually, on this, rather than the Minister for Economy. Because one of the suggestions that came through was that we could look at how we could use wool more in housing stock here in Wales. I actually met with British Wool—representatives from there. They actually told me that insulation was not really the best thing for the wool; carpets certainly were. And perhaps I shouldn't say this today, but another thing that they really thought we could do here in Wales was use it in our trains, in the seating for our trains. So, that is an area I'm also looking at with the Minister. [Interruption.] I did hesitate to say that. But I think it's a really important point, because we have seen a significant drop in the price of our wool. So, we are continuing to look at options, continuing to work with British Wool.

There was a piece of work done across the UK, with all countries in the UK, about further use, but those were the two areas: carpets and transport—seats mainly, in our trains. We're always very open to suggestions, and I know the Deputy Minister and the Minister for Climate Change are very keen to see if it can be used in housing in different ways. But, interestingly, as I say, insulation was not the way they thought it should be used.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 1:57, 29 March 2022

(Translated)

Thank you, Trefnydd. Before we move on,

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour

I call upon Altaf Hussain to make a clarification.

Photo of Altaf Hussain Altaf Hussain Conservative 1:58, 29 March 2022

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I just want to make my declaration of interest, since I'm a councillor in BCBC as well. That's Bridgend County Borough Council. Thank you.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour

(Translated)

Thank you.

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