4. Will the Counsel General provide an update on the Welsh Government's plans to ensure adequate facilities for the Welsh Tribunals? OQ58119

Thank you for the question. We are committed to ensuring that the Welsh tribunals have adequate facilities, both now and in the future, and as we take forward structural reform of the devolved tribunals to create a modernised tribunal system for Wales.

Thank you very much, Counsel General. It's fair to say that the facilities of the Welsh tribunals are not adequate. I remember speaking to one judge and she said that her first task every day was moving the tables and chairs in order to ensure that the room was ready for a case. With the lease in Oak House in Newport coming to an end next year—the only designated building for Welsh tribunals—what are the Welsh Government's plans to ensure that there are adequate buildings for our tribunals?

Thank you very much. It is a very important point that you do raise, because as we work and look to legislate with regard to the recommendations of the Law Commission on the reform of tribunals, we have to look at a number of issues, one of which of course is ensuring the independence of the judiciary, but also ensuring that there are proper tribunal facilities available for use, and with the proper status and recognition of the importance that those tribunals actually play.

With regard to the point you raise with regard to Oak House, I do recognise the importance of the tribunal room at Oak House, because it is the only dedicated tribunal facility that we have available to the tribunals. There is an issue that has arisen; the landlord has gone into administration, but our rights as tenants there do remain the same. Our lease is due to come to an end, but there is a view to renew that. So, I think that is an issue that will be resolved. But you are right in terms of the broader issue in terms of the way we want to look at the future independence and the future facilities. If we had a new civil justice centre, that potentially might even be a resource for that, and that may be one of the points that we wish to make in due course.

Counsel General, good afternoon. I'd like to ask a question with regard to the UK Government's policy on sending asylum seekers potentially to Rwanda. I really wanted to concentrate on children who are incorrectly age assessed as adults. We've heard worrying concerns on top of that, which is that police, doctors and police stations are actually undertaking something called sexual maturity tests. These are both worrying concerns, and I'm sure you would share with me and join with me in condemning both, because they potentially mean that children are assessed as adults and could be part of that cohort being sent to Rwanda. Counsel General, I wonder if you can take up this issue with the UK Government and raise your concerns in relation to this particular issue. Diolch yn fawr iawn. Thank you.

Thank you for that question. I certainly will do, and I certainly know the Minister for Social Justice has very much been raising these particular issues. They are of concern. The UN Refugee Agency has, I think, been clear that its own view is that the measures in the Nationality and Borders Bill, which include sending asylum seekers to Rwanda to process their claim there, are at odds with the refugee convention. I think it's also accepted that this callous approach is really undermining the standing of the UK in the world. It's a great regret that that Bill has now received Royal Assent. As a nation of sanctuary, these issues have been raised. I know the Minister for Social Justice wrote to Kevin Foster, jointly with the Scottish Government, on 19 May, to express the Welsh Government's concerns for the Rwanda proposals, and to ask for a four-nations meeting to discuss this issue. There has been no response to this request to date, but I know that the Minister for Social Justice will continue to pursue the point. She's obviously heard the points that you have raised. On the approach to visas and to immigration and so on, you only have to look at the difficulties that there have been with the visa situation with regard to Ukraine as well, all of which I think erodes the standing of the UK in respect of its international reputation as a world leader in respect of human rights protection. 

Question 5 [OQ58127] is withdrawn. Question 6, Mabon ap Gwynfor.