The next item is the Member debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv), and this debate is on empowering communities. I call on Luke Fletcher to move the motion.

Motion NNDM8018 Mabon ap Gwynfor, Luke Fletcher, Buffy Williams

Supported by Adam Price, Carolyn Thomas, Heledd Fychan, Huw Irranca-Davies, Janet Finch-Saunders, Jenny Rathbone, Joel James, Llyr Gruffydd, Mark Isherwood, Paul Davies, Peredur Owen Griffiths, Rhys ab Owen, Sam Rowlands, Sarah Murphy, Sioned Williams

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that Wales is home to thousands of local community groups, with hundreds running significant assets that make their communities better places to live.

2. Recognises the huge contribution community groups have made in supporting local people through the challenges of the pandemic.

3. Notes that the previous Welsh Government agreed with the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee's recommendation that it should 'develop a programme of empowering communities across Wales with the voluntary sector, acting as an enabling state for community action'.

4. Notes the important role that local authorities often play in ensuring community ownership of assets, and working in partnership with community groups and other organisations to ensure successful community venture.

5. Notes the recent IWA report, Our Land: Communities and Land Use, which finds that Welsh communities are the least empowered in Britain and calls for a major shake-up of community policy in Wales.

6. Further notes the Wales Cooperative Centre’s recently published report, Community ownership of land and assets: Enabling the delivery of community-led housing in Wales.

7. Notes that Wales, unlike Scotland and England, has no legislation giving communities the right to buy local assets of community value.

8. Believes that enabling community groups to retain local buildings and land as community facilities and supporting them to develop active and engaged communities is key to building a more prosperous, equal and greener Wales.

9. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) coproduce a communities strategy to develop an enabling state for community action;

b) explore the legal options for establishing a community right to buy in Wales.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. In a report published this year, the Bevan Foundation found that Wales has some of the weakest provisions for community rights of ownership and control in the UK. Another report found that communities face a now arduous and demoralising process, and that it was extremely likely that the situation in Wales has led to many assets being permanently lost to communities. Assets such as playing fields, historic buildings and areas of stunning natural beauty can end up in disrepair or disuse as a result of a poor and complicated system. As a country with a proud history of championing our communities, we cannot allow this to continue.

The COVID-19 pandemic and subsequent lockdowns meant that we all got to know a little bit more about our local respective towns, cities and villages. We were more aware of that nice little path around the corner, the new field down the road to take the dog to, or the playing fields that we hadn't visited since we were children. Despite the many wonderful sites across the country, we must be proactive in ensuring that they stay well maintained and well used within their communities. One of the best ways to ensure that the local park or whatever it may be is looked after is to place it in the hands of the community. After all, who is better placed to ensure a community asset is given the care and attention it needs and deserves than the community itself?

Following the pandemic, the latest 'Wellbeing of Wales' report showed a marked increase in the number of people who feel they can influence decisions in their local area. Across Wales, we saw a community-level response to COVID, which led to numerous examples of improved understanding, decision making and collaboration between communities and public bodies. We live in a nation where people are proud of their communities and want to be involved in their futures. But, despite being a country full of proud communities, we're yet to reach a position where the support is available to empower these communities. The recently published Institute of Welsh Affairs report, 'Our Land: Communities and Land Use' offers several recommendations that, if enacted, would allow residents to take control of their local area and ensure a strong and empowered future for their community, as well as the Wales Co-operative Centre report, 'Community ownership of land and assets: enabling the delivery of community-led housing in Wales'. However, the system that we currently find ourselves in is not fit for purpose. The community asset transfer system is one that is more suited to local authorities' cost cutting rather than community empowerment.

We don't need to look far for examples of community empowerment supported by Governments. The Scottish Land Fund has allowed a number of communities across Scotland to take control of local assets and mould them into something fit for local people. This is what we need in Wales. That's why we are calling on the Government to co-produce a community strategy, to develop an enabling state for community action, and for the Government to explore the legal options for establishing a community right to buy in Wales. For too long, our communities have been underpowered, at the mercy of outside interests. What we are proposing—Mabon, Buffy and I—is that we put the power back into the hands of the people. It's as simple as that.

I thank Mabon ap Gwynfor for submitting today's motion, also Buffy Williams and Luke Fletcher for co-submitting. In addition to this, of course, I was pleased to be able to record my support for today's motion, and, as I'm sure Members will be well aware, I never miss an opportunity to talk about our local communities, in particular empowering them, as is so, so important, as already outlined initially by Luke Fletcher just then. But, in contributing in today's debate, I'd like to focus on two key areas that I think are crucial in empowering our local communities before looking to address the two main action points in today's motion.

And the first point really is the importance and role of our councillors and councils in making this ambition a success. As I've stated time and time again in the Chamber, it's councillors who often know their communities best and often are true advocates of their communities, because they're democratically elected to do so. And it's councillors who need to be given the levers and power to deliver the change as needed in the community, to truly empower them and the residents that they represent.

Joyce Watson took the Chair.

It states in point 4 of today's motion that 'local authorities often play' an important role

'in ensuring community ownership of assets,' whilst working with community groups. Now, Luke Fletcher's point was well made in terms of that some of the existing powers perhaps aren't as transparent or easy for community groups to engage with as they should be.

But also, as outlined in point 2, it's these community groups and councillors who really went above and beyond during the COVID-19 pandemic, and we can't lose that enthusiasm. We really should be harnessing that. It's crucial that our locally elected champions are trusted and fully supported, if we want to maximise that enthusiasm that we've seen over recent years.

Secondly, when talking about empowering communities, I just want to mention the importance of having pride of place, being proud of the place that we work and live in. As we sadly know, many of our communities are in desperate need of some very basic improvements and perhaps don't receive the service that they deserve to have that pride in the place that they live in. Again, through the pandemic, didn't we, we saw a renewed sense of community and pride in our local areas, as Luke Fletcher already outlined—many people using our local parks, appreciating natural scenery, often taken for granted for a long time, but suddenly coming to life as we all took our one-hour daily exercise down the local footpath. Seeing those small improvements in the place that we live in makes such a difference, and a real sense of ownership also makes such a difference. We see the improvements elsewhere by seeing the physical improvements in the environment that we live in. We see communities flourish, that pride restored in the place that we live, and it's often community champions, our local residents, who are right at the heart of all this.

But in terms of the action points, as it were, in today's motion, the motion

'Calls on the Welsh Government to:

'a) coproduce a communities strategy to develop an enabling state for community action;

'b) explore the legal options for establishing a community right to buy in Wales.'

As you'd expect from me, a right to buy is something I certainly support in many different aspects. That's also why we on this side of the Chamber today are really happy to support today's motion, because, as we've outlined in our recent manifesto as Conservatives, we think that empowering local communities is really important, and being able to support them in protecting their local services is important as well. We've explored and thought about ideas around things like a community ownership fund, which perhaps could be within the thinking of Governments in the future as well. A community ownership fund would help local communities to buy facilities, such as a local pub, shop or library that needs saving, that perhaps is closing down, and just really empower those communities or groups to get hold of those things that are very important to their village or their town.

As I'm sure Members across the Chamber would agree, again, it's those local people, it's our residents that we serve at a very local level, who often know best what is needed for their area, but they haven't got the right powers and the tools at the moment to quickly enable them to do that—

Would you possibly take an intervention?

Certainly, Rhianon.

Thank you so much. Nobody would disagree with any of those sentiments—

Thank you very much.

—and comments, but my question, really, is: surely, empowering communities is about having the funding within those communities so that we have libraries and leisure centres and vibrant schools, and would you say that the austerity agenda, deliberate cuts to Wales, has diminished that capacity?

You're exactly right; as I said, funding is an important element of this, and local authorities have a role to play in that. I think what we're talking about here, though, today, is actually assets, the ownership of things, not just going through local authorities, but at an even more local level, with community groups, anybody who sees something that they think makes a big difference to their community getting hold of that and actually doing a good job of running that facility.

But thank you for your opening comments there, Rhianon; I always appreciate being supported by you over there. I can't remember where I was up to in terms of what I was saying there; you threw me there.

But, in addition to these points just made then, empowering local communities also looks like local neighbourhood plans as well. I think, at times, our planning system, with all the legal restraints that it has and has to have, sometimes can miss out on that very local involvement with people having decision making about how things look and feel within their locality, how things look and feel in terms of of what is built around them as well.

So, just in closing today, it is a great opportunity, I think, for us as Members across the Senedd, across the political Chamber, to come together to recognise the importance of our local communities and support the aspiration of empowering them, as Rhianon so eloquently said. In light of this, I'd like to again thank Mabon for submitting today's motion, and I look forward to hearing many more contributions and hopefully be able to contribute myself further as the debate goes on. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I think this is a very important debate to make people feel that they have some control over their communities, when so much seems to be not in people's control. Therefore, it's really important that we equip communities with better tools to protect themselves from external interests with no stake in an area, who just want to monetise everything they can get their hands on.

Dom Phillips and Bruno Pereira paid with their lives trying to highlight the galloping destruction of the Amazon, the largest rainforest in the world. Tragically, the rule of law has been undermined or ignored, not least by the current Brazilian Government. Commercial interests—some commercial interests—know no bounds in the search for profit, untroubled by the impact on nature, the Amazonian Indians who have lived there for millennia, and the devastating impact that this is likely to have on the future of our planet collectively. It's an extreme example, but it's not an isolated incident, so I particularly want to focus on point 8 in the motion, about enabling communities to retain local buildings and land as community facilities.

I recently visited the site of the Llanishen and Lisvane reservoirs, which is on the border of Cardiff Central and Cardiff North, which will in a couple of years' time return to being a community asset open to the public. The amenity would have been completely lost were it not for the efforts of the community, spearheaded by the Reservoir Action Group, known as RAG, and a 10-year campaign to combat one of the largest American mulitinationals—Pennsylvania Power & Light—who wanted to turn it into housing because, obviously, that is much more profitable than being the custodian of a former water reservoir.

As soon as it was acquired from Welsh Water in 2004, Pennsylvania Power & Light set about kicking off the sailing club that was on the site, refusing permission to the fishing club and putting up huge barriers to prevent people getting on to the site to enjoy this very special site of special scientific interest, due to the presence of a wide variety of grassland fungi and the over-wintering birds that land on Lisvane reservoir.

So, Pennsylvania Power & Light, through its subsidiary, Western Power Distribution, were arguing that this amenity was no longer needed, and it was only the efforts of RAG that enabled it to become a listed building, and it took three public inquiries to defeat Pennsylvania Power & Light. They finally threw in the towel in 2010—no, I think a little bit later, in 2013, but not until they had already completely drained the Llanishen reservoir, which is a multimillion pound venture to refill and repair, given the strict restrictions around reservoirs, for good reasons. So, it is an irony that this asset is now back in the hands of Dŵr Cymru due to the efforts of the much-loved and long-lamented Carl Sargeant, who persuaded them to take back the site that they had sold off in the first place.

It will be a wonderful site, but if it wasn't for the real efforts of a very large-scale community campaign, we would simply not have this, and it's really been down to the community to protect it. So, it's really illustrating of just how determined people need to be and also the fact that the planning regime and the community asset regulations that exist in other parts of Britain are simply absent in Wales, and that needs to be rectified.

So, for current problems, there's a pub called the Roath Park in my constituency, on City Road. It is the last remaining Victorian-era pub on that road, and it's destined for demolition because it's cheaper to simply tear it down and put up some modern flats instead. I'm sure they'll be hideous. And instead, they could be amending this fine building to make dwellings for future use. So, there has to be an alternative to this. Cadw refuse to list it, and even had it been locally listed by Cardiff Council, that wouldn't have protected it.

So, we need to look again at how we can protect things in our communities that people value and want to preserve. And if people are there saying, 'We will take this on', then they shouldn't have people who just simply have the money and just want to make a quick buck to prevent them doing so. And if we don't do this, there's no way we're going to be able to develop the 15-minute city that's being developed in Paris and Nottingham and other places, which is the only way forward if we are going to meet our sustainability goals.

As we all know, community groups play an important and vital role in their communities and I'd like to begin by thanking, from the bottom of my heart, every community group that is active in the region that I represent. And although a number of community groups receive support from local authorities, a number of them face challenges too. What I would like to see personally as a result of this motion is to make it easier for communities to take ownership of local assets of community value.

From October 2021 to April of this year, my office received 11 enquiries from community groups specifically seeking support with regard to the process of community asset transfer. In one example, a community group wants to save local playing fields for community use, while their local council, which owns the land, wants to sell the land for the construction of social housing. In the community group's experience, the council officials, who are meant to support the transfer of community assets, were compromised as the council had a firm view on the future of that particular parcel of land. Where was the support, therefore, for this group?

Indeed, land is regularly sold by councils without communities being aware or being given the opportunity to protect the land as a community asset. Many of these are small plots of land in current communities that have difficulties with a multiplicity of issues such as parking, access to electric-vehicle charging points, and, of course, with the cost-of-living crisis, they don't have a parcel of land to grow food locally. A community right to buy would require estates departments to engage with local communities regarding proposals to sell parcels of land and to engage with the communities to establish their interest and to decide how assets like these can be used to meet local needs.

Another group that has contacted my office has just secured a lease on their community asset, five years after beginning their discussions with the local authority. This lengthy process can place huge pressure on the volunteers who are part of community groups and can place much-needed funding at risk, as well as putting the future of the assets that communities are working so hard to save at risk, because we know that these assets will decline if the funding is not made available whilst they await a decision by the local authority.

So, the experience of communities that have contacted me is that some local authorities treat them as though they are commercial entities rather than a key part of the community that the authority is committed to serving. We must put some measures in place. The current system as it currently stands isn't working, and I'm grateful to Mabon ap Gwynfor for raising this very important issue. After all, we all benefit if we empower our communities. We all benefit if historic buildings or parcels of land are used in a way that is beneficial to all of us. I'm very pleased to support this motion, but we also need to see action from Government on this. Thank you.

It's great to see so much support from across the Chamber. Community is, no doubt, important wherever you live in the world. I may be biased, but I think that community is extra special to people living in Wales. We are, by nature, an outgoing, kind and selfless people. Perhaps this is why we tend to seek common bonds through family, friends or place of birth, rather than profession, when we meet somebody for the first time. It is therefore jarring to hear from a much-respected think tank like the Institute of Welsh Affairs that communities in Wales are the least empowered in the UK. The pandemic shows just how much community spirit remains in our towns and villages, despite not having the conditions to thrive, like our counterparts in Scotland and England.

It's a strange anomaly that there is no community right to buy in Wales. Legislation was introduced by the Tories in England a decade ago. In Scotland, the protection for communities is even stronger. Here in Wales, nothing.

Will you take an intervention?

Yes, certainly.

Thank you very much, Peredur. You’re quite right to outline that, 10 years ago, the UK Government brought in community asset transfers, community right to buy, and really, it was a very good piece of legislation that we wanted to see here in Wales. In fact, I myself raised it numerous times when I was shadow Cabinet Secretary, as they were called then, for local government. And it’s fair to say that, in those 10 years, my colleague Mark Isherwood has also raised it. So, we as a group have raised this time after time after time. Would you not agree that we've wasted 10 years? And you have been in with the Labour Government over this time. Do you not think we've wasted time and we really need to have a robust question posed to the Welsh Labour Government to get on with it?

I think it’s, as we’re calling it here today, time to do something about it, so it’s good to—[Interruption.]

Anyway. There will be many communities in Wales that have lost community assets over the last decade without the legislation. I can provide a recent example of somewhere that looks set to lose the only pub in a very small community. The people behind the campaign to save the pub have asked me not to identify them just because there’s a tiny glimmer of hope that things may go their way, and they do not want to jeopardise relations with the current owner of the pub. Despite having financial backing, a solid business plan and a heavy backing from the community, the efforts to save the pub have so far been unsuccessful, and the pub looks set to be sold on the private market. When told about Plaid Cymru’s effort to get community right to buy legislation in Wales, my contact from the campaign said, and I quote, ‘A community right to buy scheme? That would have been so helpful. We would own our pub by now and would be sitting outside it enjoying the sunshine.’ So, please, in the Government response to this debate, I hope I do not hear a line that says that there is no need for legislation, or at least, try telling that to the people I’m in contact with, who are fighting to save the pub and the only community hub for miles.

There are examples of buildings being rescued, restored and returned to community use. I had the pleasure of chairing a Finance Committee stakeholder event in Llanhilleth Miners Institute last week. This tremendous building, gifted to the people from the contributions of miners, is an amazing resource, and a venue for people in the local area and beyond. There are other examples, but some of these community assets have been saved for the benefit of the local residents despite the odds being stacked against them. Let’s make things easier for communities to preserve their heritage and retain facilities. They should get, at the very least, parity with their counterparts in Scotland and England.

I was reminded of the importance of this during a visit in my region a few months back. I’d gone to visit a constituent who was spearheading a campaign to restore a community asset that has great potential and could transform the area. She told me about her efforts to garner interest in the project with a stall in a nearby town centre. The apathy she found in the people she spoke to left her very upset. In her words, ‘So many people have given up.’ I fear that, unless we act soon and empower our communities, we will not only lose those people, but also the generations that follow. We cannot allow this to happen. Diolch.

I call on the Minister for Social Justice, Jane Hutt.

Diolch yn fawr, acting Presiding Officer, and can I thank Members for tabling this important debate? Just also to say, in following on from many Members who’ve spoken today, that I’m also pleased to have the opportunity to recognise the thousands of community groups across Wales, and thank them for making such a difference to the life of their communities, which they support. And of course, many of these community groups are addressing inequality, tackling poverty, building confidence, self-esteem, and improving health and well-being. Many of these groups are already also managing community facilities, buildings and green spaces, which act as a focus for community action, and provide local access to vital services. And it's clear that community-owned and community-run assets can help to empower our communities, which is the headline of your debate today—empowering communities—but also to improve their resilience. Because it's quite clear that evidence is showing that communities with resources like community assets, strong partnerships and local advocates can actually be very resilient in terms of responding to the sorts of shocks that so many communities have experienced in recent years—not just the pandemic, but flooding, and now, of course, the cost-of-living crisis, a cost-of-living crisis that we have not seen for decades. And communities are responding to that.

Minister, will you take an intervention?

Yes, of course.

Thank you. Sorry, I was too late to speak on this item. I just want to clarify something—that we are talking about community facilities, which are really important. Because I do have a bit of an issue about the Conservatives believing that public services could be run by volunteers, and that passing on community facilities to voluntary groups, rather than being run by public funding, to cut public service costs, is not really a desirable policy. And I find that projects are not often sustainable without someone to lead on them and the backing of central funding. So, this is about community facilities, isn't it? I'm just trying to get that clarification. Thank you.

This is a complex area in terms of developing community policy, and I want to go on to that, in terms of what this will mean in terms of delivering those services at the sharp end, and also, recognising that there are barriers, and also that this is about working relationships. I'm very interested, for example, just in terms of the role that Flintshire County Council has played in working with their town and community councils very proactively—you may have been involved in your former role as a councillor—on asset transfer. Because the local authority, Flintshire, the local county voluntary council, groups seeking transfers, worked together. That's what we would want to see across the whole of Wales, and that actually does improve the chance, for example, in terms of facilities, to achieve a successful transfer with the local authority, supported by the county voluntary council, which, of course, we fund to play this role. And also, Flintshire has got a list of all its transferable assets on its website. That's accessible, and it invites bids from groups interested in taking on those assets.

I just want to move on to the fact that volunteers and community groups, as I said, have played a hugely important role in responding to the pandemic, in particular, and the fact that there are also voluntary and community groups—we have them in all our constituencies—who are playing a significant role, for example, in achieving a fair and green recovery. They're working at every level, often under their own initiatives, but engaging with the local authorities, town and community councils, but other landowners as well, particularly in terms of the fact there are so many action for nature groups and environmental groups across Wales.

Just to say, in terms of part of Wales's recovery from the pandemic, we've been working in partnership with the third sector partnership council, which I chair. There's cross-sectoral representation there from across community and voluntary third sector groups. I think the recovery plan is important, and it helps us as I respond to this debate, because as a result of the recovery plan and our response now to the cost-of-living crisis, we are taking the first steps in developing a communities policy. I think Luke Fletcher actually asked me that question in his opening comments, about how we are actually developing new co-productive ways of working with communities. Our communities policy gives us the opportunity, and also this debate, I would say, is a clear guide to that.

Because what we've said, and I spoke at the Gofod conference this morning about this, is that we're aiming for Welsh communities to be thriving, empowered and connected, so that they can rise to meet new challenges. 'Thriving' means that our communities have strong, sustainable foundations, can build on their assets, have the tools they need to deal with adversity and respond to new opportunities. 'Empowered' means that our communities are hardwired into decision making at every level, that they have the capacity not just to influence but to develop ways of working to identify their own assets, needs and priorities, and to make decisions and deliver solutions. I see someone waving at me.

Minister, can I point out that—I'm sorry, I missed you, Huw—Huw wants to make an intervention?

Thank you very much for taking the intervention. I didn't want to speak in this debate, but I'm really pleased to support this debate today and to hear others speak, and it's great to hear the Minister talk about the engagement with the co-operative centre of Wales. Would she recognise that much of the motion here today, cross-party as it is, actually reflects very accurately the long-running campaigns by the Co-operative Party in Wales, and across the UK, in terms of empowerment, wealth building, ownership, and including the issue of exploring the potential for legislation? So, in her remarks, closing up, I wonder if she'd turn to that as well, in welcoming this debate today and the fantastic contributions we've had.

Thank you very much, Huw Irranca-Davies. I'm really pleased you've made that intervention and recognised the principles not just of the Co-operative Party, which are very much hardwired into Welsh Government values and principles as well, because my third point is about being connected. And what do we mean by that? That communities can work effectively in partnership to co-produce the services and manage assets and the support that they need. 

I will say, in coming to the conclusion of my response, that I welcome the recently published reports on community ownership from both the Institute of Welsh Affairs and the Wales Co-operative Centre, now Cwmpas. And I want to assure colleagues in the Senedd that communities, and community actions, and how we can support and empower them, are at the heart of the Welsh Government programme for government. 

I just want to mention the importance of resource. The community facilities programme is providing grants to help communities buy, develop and improve community assets. I think you will all know what that money can mean in your communities, and to some of these community assets, buildings and green spaces. We have provided over £41 million in capital grants to 295 projects. There are so many of those projects, with £19.5 million through the community facilities programme over the next three years, so please encourage proposals and developments. I visited a few recently, such as, on Saturday, Railway Gardens in Splott, operated by Green Squirrel, which is such an excellent example of this—a diverse community working together, very intergenerational, community action, local business, culture, music and food. But, also, you've only got to visit the Dusty Forge centre in Ely, the ACE project, but also, getting money out to sporting venues, community centres, mosques, temples, as well as churches and chapels. Not all the assets are community owned, but so many of them are run by the community and with the community, and we're now moving towards ensuring that we can help these projects with investment in energy efficiency. There's the Abergavenny Community Trust recently—they want net zero; they've got the solar panels, and we helped fund that. And we've also launched a £5 million community asset loan fund, delivered for us by the Wales Council for Voluntary Action, complementing the CFP. 

I've come to the end of the time that I've got to speak to you today, but I want to just say that, in terms of our third sector support, the WCVA, 19 county voluntary councils in Wales, third sector organisations, Cwmpas and the Development Trusts Association Wales are all helping us and looking at ways in which we can strengthen our commitment. Local authorities have a crucial role to play in terms of community asset transfers, where the asset owners are involved in the process before, during and after the transfer. [Interruption.]

You're just out of time. 

Finally, can I just reassure you that the Welsh Government is supporting this motion today? I think it's the first step to us looking at a co-productive route to our new communities policy. Diolch yn fawr. 

I call on Mabon ap Gwynfor to reply to the debate. 

Thank you very much, temporary Presiding Officer. 

Can I just say at the beginning of my contribution that we've got a number of the young citizens of Wales here? Welcome all; you might well be sitting here at some point in the future. 

It's a pleasure to close this debate today, and I'd like to thank Luke Fletcher for opening the debate so eloquently, and I thank everyone else who has contributed to it. Before proceeding to the substance of the debate, I would also like to say that Buffy Williams would have liked to have been here today, and Buffy is central to the motion. She has a great deal of experience in this area, and she would have certainly enriched today’s debate. So, I thank her for her co-operation and support in reaching this point.

I don’t want to spend too much time criticising the Government. That's an easy thing to do in terms of the politics of the thing, but the truth is that I genuinely want to see delivery on these issues as soon as possible, and it is only the Government that can take action. So I don’t think I would have much success in convincing them by criticising them for the final minutes of this debate. 

But, it must be noted, before proceeding, that it is about time that the Government delivered on its promises. Yes, there are steps in place such as the community asset transfer, which, on paper, enables communities to take ownership of properties when a local authority or public body wants to dispose of them. But, and I speak from personal experience here, it is a very labour-intensive process that is very, very difficult to navigate, militating against community groups, with many giving up before achieving their ambition. I know this from experience. Heledd has spoken about the experiences in her contribution too. 

Over 10 years have passed since the Welsh Co-operatives and Mutuals Commission recommended that the Welsh Government should legislate to enable communities to register their community assets and to have first refusal when community assets go on the market. And seven years have passed since the then Minister for Communities and Tackling Poverty announced a consultation on the idea of developing Welsh policy to empower communities, stating that there was strong support for the idea of establishing a scheme that would impose a moratorium on the sale of assets, whilst a local group is organising itself to make a bid. Indeed, a commitment was given that a legislative framework would be introduced to develop an assets of community value scheme here, and that this would happen following the 2016 elections. But, it is now 2022, and we are still waiting. 

Scotland has legislation that has been in place for over 20 years, as my colleague Peredur mentioned, and this legislation has been strengthened in that time. Communities across Scotland, be they rural or urban, have the right to bid for land and community assets, with a register of property and public land, and tens of millions of pounds are allocated to support community groups, with practical support also being given. That is what we need here. A great deal of this happens organically in Wales on the ground, but you need to understand the systems, and, above all, it takes resilience, time and commitment, which many people don’t have.

I want to take this opportunity, if I may, to pay tribute to one who did make the time and who came to understand the system, the father of the community action movement in modern Wales, if you will, namely the late Dr Carl Clowes, who worked so hard to revitalise the community in Llanaelhaearn, by establishing Antur Aelhaearn and then going on to establish Nant Gwrtheyrn. He also was one of the founders of Dolen Cymru, with that wonderful relationship between Lesotho and Wales. Carl passed away earlier this year, but what a legacy he left. He, along with the active Llanaelhaearn group, established the first community co-operative enterprise in the United Kingdom, having witnessed the damage and harm caused as the granite quarries in the area closed. He inspired the community to come together to launch an enterprise under local ownership that, at one point, sold clothes and other goods to major retailers in New York and Paris. I'm pleased to say that Antur Aelhaearn continues to operate in Llanaelhaearn to this day. 

Everybody, hopefully, knows about the astonishing history of Nant Gwrtheyrn, as Carl and the gang repurposed that isolated village, and turned it into a successful centre for learning Welsh, not only breathing new life into the buildings, but into the community, into people and into a language. Carl’s legacy and the Antur’s work can be seen to this day, from the co-operative pubs Y Fic in Llithfaen, Pengwern Cymunedol in Llan Ffestiniog, Y Plu in Llanystumdwy and Yr Heliwr in Nefyn, to the work of Cwmni Bro in Blaenau Ffestiniog and the dozens of co-operative enterprises scattered across Gwynedd.

This is the spirit that we need to harness: the spirit of community co-operatives, as Peredur mentioned. The appetite, the enthusiasm and the love for communities are there. We only need to look at the excellent work done in communities across Wales over the past two years, as communities identified where there were vulnerabilities and came together to care for each other, as Sam mentioned in his contribution.

How many times have we heard conversations in the pub or at the school gate, with people talking about a pub, old cinema, garage, old hotel, old chapel or an empty plot of land standing idle, and saying, 'I'm sure that something useful could be done with those properties'?

How many times have we seen buildings of local historical importance being demolished to build blocks of offices or luxury flats, as Jenny spoke about in her contribution? One only has to go to central Cardiff to see the architectural and cultural damage following the loss of so many of our historic buildings.

It is an all too familiar story, and unfortunately it’s a situation that has deteriorated over the past 10 years, as Janet mentioned in her contribution, as local authorities have had to sell assets to compensate for financial losses as a result of cuts. But the Government here can act and can ensure that communities are empowered to take ownership of these assets and develop them to be of community benefit.

What is of interest to me specifically is the exciting possibility that communities can begin developing affordable housing to meet the need in their own communities. Imagine that. As we face a housing crisis and a cost-of-living crisis—both interrelated, by the way—imagine if communities could identify local need and be given a parcel of land to develop homes of an appropriate size for their residents. They wouldn’t be driven by profit, but by the need to ensure that their families and neighbours had a roof over their heads. This isn’t a pipe dream; it’s a genuine possibility.

Think too about the possibility, through Ynni Cymru, of enabling communities to generate their own energy, and the economic benefit that the community would derive from this, or imagine a Wales with thriving co-operative shops, cinemas, allotments, leisure centres, creating quality jobs, with profits locked into the community.

I do welcome the contribution made by the Minister, and I'm pleased to hear that the Minister won't be opposing the motion. The Minister spoke about and praised Flintshire, with its register of assets. Well, why not follow that example and ensure that there is a national register of community assets available? Why don't you follow the leadership of Flintshire?

I also thank Huw Irranca-Davies for emphasising the need for legislation. I haven't heard today from the Minister what the intentions of the Government are in terms of legislation in this area, but I hope that there is scope for us to work on this going forward. So, Minister, and Government, do grasp this opportunity—an opportunity to develop policy and, hopefully, legislation that has the potential to transform the fortunes of our communities and their residents in Wales.

It would be good to see legislation introduced on this matter, of course—community empowerment legislation, including a register of community assets and giving communities first refusal on assets, legislation co-produced with our communities, which would ensure that it's possible to transfer assets simply to structured community groups, and, yes, with clauses to ensure that that property isn’t lost to public control. Do ensure that the funding is there, but also the practical support to guide communities on the journey, ensuring that they are in control. Thank you very much.

The motion—. Wait a minute, that's the next bit. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does anyone object? So, the motion is, therefore, agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.