Item 7 today is a debate on the Petitions Committee report, 'Mark Allen’s Law: Water Safety and Drowning Prevention'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Jack Sargeant.

Motion NDM8157 Jack Sargeant

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Petitions Committee, ‘Mark Allen’s Law: Water safety and drowning prevention’, which was laid in the Table Office on 2 August 2022.

Motion moved.

Thank you very much. On behalf of the Petitions Committee, thank you for the opportunity to bring forward this important debate—

—on the report, 'Mark Allen’s Law: Water Safety and Drowing Prevention'. Leeanne Bartley, who is here in the gallery today with her husband, David, created this petition following the tragic death of her son. Mark was only 18 years old when he died in June of 2018 after jumping into a freezing reservoir on a hot day. The family believe that he could have been saved if a throw line was available near the water that day.

The petition, Deputy Presiding Officer, calls for,

'Mark Allen’s law: we want throw line stations around all open water sites in Wales,' and it has already raised awareness among the public, having collected a total of 11,027 signatures. It forms part of a wider campaign undertaken by Mark’s mum to raise awareness of the risks, educate the public and campaign for action to promote water safety and prevent drowning.

As part of this campaign, a similar petition was submitted to the UK Government calling for legislation to require throw lines to be installed around open bodies of water, which was supported by over 100,000 people. It was debated in the UK Parliament last January, with no commitment for change by the UK Government. We’re proud that we are taking this issue further in Wales. As Chair of the Petitions Committee, I feel very privileged to be able to listen to and support individuals like Leeanne to highlight challenges and make a positive difference.

During the committee inquiry, we looked in depth at the issues arising from this petition, and we heard evidence from Water Safety Wales, water utility companies, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents and Natural Resources Wales to gain a fuller picture of the context, the challenges and the action needed to increase water safety and prevent drowning. But, most importantly, we heard from the petitioner directly and from other families who have lost loved ones to drowning. We heard about the devastating impact that such a tragedy has on their lives, but also of their steely determination to raise awareness and prevent future loss of life through drowning. We are ever so grateful for their time, their honesty and their willingness to share their trauma so that others might benefit.

Our report made six recommendations to the Welsh Government, five of which have been accepted and one accepted in principle. If I could speak to recommendation 1 first, we welcome that water safety and drowning prevention will now be within the Minister for Climate Change’s portfolio to ensure the leadership and co-ordination that had been lacking as it is an area that straddles various portfolios.

Turning to recommendation 2, I was particularly pleased to hear from Water Safety Wales that the Minister and her officials have been engaging with them and are currently considering funding provision to provide dedicated support for the organisation. This would enable a significant step forward to deliver the drowning prevention strategy in Wales and I look forward to hearing more about this from the Minister.

If we look at recommendation 3, I do welcome the positive response to bringing parties together and building on the good work undertaken. However, there is still more to do. A water safety and education programme must be embedded in our education system with a clear action plan for delivery to ensure that each and every one of our children learns about how to stay safe near or in the water. I call on the Minister to ensure that this will not be optional, but a compulsory part of education in Wales.

In addition, I do support the calls from water safety campaigners for all children to receive swimming lessons, which may of course save their life. We've heard evidence recently from Swim Wales in the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee to support its inquiry into the participation—[Inaudible.]—school can swim, and I believe that Jenny Rathbone brought this to our attention last week.

Llywydd, recommendation 4, which was accepted in principle, called on the Welsh Government to take steps to ensure that there is clarity about the minimum—

We understand your microphone is currently not working, Jack. Do you want to hang on a second, please? 

No problem, Presiding Officer.

Can we just check?

Are we back on?

Yes, it's back on now, Jack.

Presiding Officer, I'll revert to recommendation 3—I believe that's where it cut off.

I do welcome the positive response to recommendation 3, to bring partners together, building on the good work currently undertaken. However, there is still more to do. A water safety and education programme must be embedded into our education system, with a clear action plan for delivery to ensure each and every one of our children learns how to stay safe near or in water. I call on the Minister to ensure that this will not be optional, but a compulsory part of the education in Wales.

In addition, I support the call from water safety campaigners for all children to receive swimming lessons, which may of course save their life. This has been highlighted to the Senedd by Jenny Rathbone and the culture committee during evidence that was given. The evidence highlighted the fact that, post COVID, only 42 per cent of schoolchildren in Wales attending school could actually swim in 2022.

Presiding Officer, if I speak to recommendation 4, which was accepted in principle, it called on the Welsh Government to take steps to ensure that there is clarity about the minimum safety information and signage required around water bodies to increase awareness of the risks present to those who enter the water. Now, I understand, and the committee understands, that this is a complex area, and we do welcome the action to explore this further with developing a guide for those organisations. 

Turning to recommendations 5 and 6, looking at awareness raising and educating the public was the most consistent message we had from all who gave evidence to our inquiry. It is absolutely vital, Presiding Officer. And to do so effectively we must recognise that water safety and drowning prevention sits within the wider context of outdoor safety. Effective joined-up thinking and working is key to ensure the safety messages are clear, are consistent, and are able to support people to enjoy the beautiful and challenging outdoors of Wales as safely as possible.

To conclude, Presiding Officer, the committee fully supports Leeanne Bartley, her campaign, and hopes that our recommendations go some way to ensuring that other families do not have to go through that terrible journey that I have described in opening. I look forward to hearing the contributions from other Members and of course the Minister’s response. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I'm absolutely delighted that the Welsh Government has supported the work of the Petitions Committee and has accepted its recommendations. I'm particularly pleased to see that this Government has recognised that, in order to provide clear and effective leadership and co-ordination for water safety and drowning prevention, there needs to be oversight from a single ministerial portfolio. I also want to take this opportunity to thank Mark Allen's family for their tireless campaigning on this matter and their desire to see that no other family goes through what they did. I can only imagine the trauma that that caused.

Every summer, so many people attempt to take a dip in open water, and, sadly, this situation is unlikely to change anytime soon. Whilst I recognise that a lot more needs to be done in helping to teach people to swim, we have to remember that it is sometimes the overconfidence of some swimmers that often puts them in danger, because they take too many risks. I therefore have no doubt that it will be targeted campaigns, particularly in a localised context, and during summer months in and around areas known for open water swimming, which will be extremely effective in helping people consider more carefully the risks when accessing open water, and we should be prioritising these campaigns on the tv, on the radio, on social media, in the local cinemas and in the local news, and highlight the dangers of open water swimming. Moreover, we need to do more than just having the signs saying 'No swimming' or 'Dangerous currents', because—and I know it's not their intention, but—they're often perceived as nothing more than randomly placed signs, with people rarely giving any consideration to how accurate they are. With this in mind, I would urge that consideration is given to signage that fully explains the risks, and gives a complete breakdown of what can happen. I believe these signs should also highlight the number of deaths and explain in detail the geographical area under the water, which will reinforce why it is not safe for entering. These signs should also contain safety instructions and life-saving procedures. 

I also think that, given the number of instances of people becoming ill by swimming in rivers with raw sewage overflows, we should be highlighting areas where raw sewage is often being discharged into water and explain the dangers of swimming in it. Where we have tourists in Wales who are wild swimmers who are often looking for open water, they ultimately do not have the local knowledge of the pollution incidents.

With this in mind, Dirprwy Lywydd, I can't stress enough the importance of this petition and of providing more swimming lessons for schoolchildren, and helping everyone better understand water safety. And I would urge the Welsh Government to take seriously the recommendations that they've accepted, and do everything they can to tackle the issues related to it. I and my group fully support this petition, and I would urge every other Member to do so. Thank you.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you to the committee Chair and also, mainly, to the clerking team for all of their work. 

Leeanne's campaign was actually one of the first campaigns to get in touch with me as a newly elected Member; when I literally just scrolled back through Messenger, it was actually David who got in touch with me. Now, that was in 2021, and I'm very glad that we are now here at this point. There's not much more I can really add to the Chair's contribution, but the work we undertook as a committee was, I believe, greatly appreciated not just by Leeanne and her family, but also the families of others who have lost loved ones due to drowning. 

As a committee, we held panels with families who had experienced similar to Leeanne, and the evidence they gave was invaluable and greatly appreciated, especially given the distressing nature of their evidence. They, like Leeanne and so many others who chose to engage with us as a committee, are a constant source of courage, inspiration and power for those who seek to make a difference. And I have to say, it's one of the best things about being a member of the Petitions Committee: being able to engage with people like Leeanne and help them get their voices heard here in our Senedd. 

In terms of the recommendations and the Government's response, I am pleased that the Government has accepted the majority of our recommendations, and one in principle. The evidence gathered, I believe, pointed to some of the good work already going on by various organisations like Dŵr Cymru, like the fire service, in working to improve water safety. But what I think was lacking was the joined-up thinking and coherence in educational programmes. However, the desire to get that coherence was clear to us all. 

It was also clear that funding was an issue, specifically when comparing to the funding given in England around water safety, and I am particularly pleased with water safety now being allocated to a specific Minister. It was very clear that that was needed, that we needed that direct leadership on this. It's, of course, another thing to add to the climate change portfolio, but it's very, very important that we have done so.  

Felly, Dirprwy Lywydd, I'd like to reiterate my thanks to those who came forward with evidence for all the work that went into this to make our report a reality, and I'll end by saying that this isn't the end of the problem, and that I think it's also incumbent on all of us to be involved in raising awareness around the hazards of open bodies of water. As elected Members, we have a duty to help organisations in our constituencies and regions, as well as the Government, in raising awareness.  

I just want to start by explaining my reasons for speaking in this debate today. As Members will know, prior to being elected, I was a teacher, and, in my 16 years as a teacher, each summer we would hold an assembly with Welsh Water where we would outline the dangers of swimming in reservoirs. Each year we did this diligently and we felt secure in the knowledge that we'd done all we could to protect our students. Yet, one summer, we received the devastating news that one of our former pupils, Daniel Clemo, a real character, a fit, strong young man, full of life and vibrancy, had drowned while swimming in a reservoir on a hot sunny day. I know first-hand how this loss devastated Daniel's family and how deeply it shook the community, and I know that we need to do more, much more, to try and prevent such deaths in future. And I'd like to commend the bravery of Mark Allen's family for their tireless work in this area.

Turning to the report itself, I'd like to commend the Petitions Committee for this excellent piece of work. Like many of us, I was shocked by the scale of the challenge—for example, that the number of accidental drowning deaths is higher than the number of fatalities from a range of arguably higher profile causes, and that, in Wales, per head of population, the rate of drowning is double that of the UK average. But perhaps even more chilling was the data around the number of incidents that don't result in deaths. According to Water Safety Wales, over 1,750 water-related incidents each year require an emergency response, and all of those could of course lead to loss of life of those people in danger or, possibly, our emergency services. So, this shows how important it is that, despite personal loss, Leeanne has led this campaign so other families do not suffer.

Turning to the next steps, I'm pleased to see recommendations 3 and 6 in particular. Education and awareness of the danger that bodies of water pose are critical to prevent loss of life. It is right that we try and impress this lesson on our children and young people from an early age, and that we take a lifelong approach to ensure that message is remembered. I'm glad that the Welsh Government has accepted both these recommendations and that work has already been undertaken around reservoir safety and carried out in a way that is relevant and easy to access, so that Mark Allen's legacy can live on and lives can be saved.

Thank you. Sam Rowlands.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and could I thank the Petitions Committee for bringing forward today's important report in front of us here today? And can I also put on record my admiration for the friends and family of Mark, who I know are in the public gallery here today, and applaud their efforts in ensuring that this issue is debated here today in the form of a report?

As already stated by Members across the Chamber, it's extremely concerning that any young person loses their life to drowning in Wales. I understand that around 400 people across the UK actually lose their life through drowning, so it's clear that more needs to be done to see that continued action in preventing these deaths.

I just want to speak, Deputy Presiding Officer, as the chairman of the Senedd's cross-party group on the outdoor activity sector, and, while there is a lot of good in this report, I've been made aware that perhaps there are some missed opportunities amongst the recommendations, and opportunities that the outdoor activity sector would want to have a comment on, especially with their great deal of experience and expertise in this area. And as we know, the report does highlight a number of the challenging issues when it comes to ensuring water spaces are safer places for those who visit and use them, as well as making suggestions to help mitigate some of these issues. But, in terms of the missed opportunity, I understand there hasn't been the consultation with the outdoor activity sector that perhaps could have taken place, and I know it's disappointing to the sector, as they, amongst many people, see water safety as such an important aspect of the work that they do. And they already do a huge amount of work in relation to water safety and campaigns, with things like AdventureSmart Wales, AdventureSmart UK, with their public awareness campaigns, and also their campaigns with around 100 other partners, on a collaborative effort to agree safety messages and share those messages as widely as possible.

And a clear aspect of this debate and report so far is that a lot more work needs to be done in preventing these deaths, and, to achieve this aim, we all must make sure that we're working together, working across sector and across organisations, to ensure that this happens as best as possible. So, whilst I appreciate, Deputy Presiding Officer, that this process is coming to a conclusion in terms of this report, I understand the sector itself would still welcome further discussions in how they could further support the Petitions Committee and relevant bodies in relation to water safety and drowning prevention, and I hope that this offer can be taken up. But I certainly want to thank the committee for their report and the Chairman for presenting it here today. I look forward to further contributions. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Can I thank the committee for bringing this report forward, and once again say it shows the power of the Petitions Committee in bringing really important matters in front of the Senedd, and the facility that we have within this Welsh Parliament, Senedd Cymru, to actually articulate the views of people outside of this Chamber itself? It's a great opportunity to debate this. And, in opening my remarks, I also join others in commending the work of families who have campaigned on these issues. We can't understand the tragedy that they've been through, but we can empathise with it, and it's the fear that many of us have as parents and others, if something like this went wrong.

But, the points that I want to raise, in agreeing with much of what is in the report, some of which I'll pick up from Sam in a moment, who does a commendable job in chairing the cross-party group that focuses on outdoor activities and outdoor education—. Of course, we always look at Wales as a country that is full of outdoor adventure and adrenaline, but we have to do it safely, of course, and there is a body of expertise there, Minister, I think. In fact, Minister, you've appeared with that group before and I'm sure you'll want to draw on the expertise within it in taking forward some of these recommendations, because they do specialise in safety in the outdoors, including water safety, and they'd want to contribute. I know they've made it clear that they'd want to contribute to this work going forward, and, I think, to engage with the Petitions Committee and with the families as well. 

There were two specific things that I wanted to pick out of the report that haven't been mentioned extensively in the debate today. One is, in some of the evidence that you gathered, the issue of risk assessment was picked up on. I think that's appropriate. Way back in a previous life, when I was a lecturer, we used to talk about how you manage activity in the outdoors, and we looked at American models like the recreation opportunity spectrum: where you know that you have a high risk, where you have intensive use, where you know that there are going to be youngsters, teenagers, going and canoeing, jumping in, whatever, then you focus your intensive signage and you focus your throw lines and you focus them into those areas, and you make sure they're there. But, there's a difference between that and the top hills of Plynlimon, where there might indeed be an open-water source, and there might indeed be people who go free swimming, but it would seem incongruous to put signage and so on there. So, that idea of risk assessment, site-specific assessment, I think, is very important.

The other thing is to actually pull partners together in taking forward these proposals. We want Wales to be celebrated as a place where you can safely enjoy the outdoors, but I think that aspiration of Water Safety Wales and others to rule out fatalities in these situations is the right aspiration, but we need to think carefully how we do this and we bring partners with real knowledge together to do it.

But, just finally in closing, I commend the work the family has done and the Petitions Committee in bringing this forward. It's a good debate; it's the right debate to have.

I call on the Minister for Climate Change. Julie James. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you very much to Jack for bringing forward the debate and giving me the opportunity to speak about water safety and drowning prevention.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I'd just like to start, as you'd expect me to, by offering my deepest sympathies to Mark Allen's family and to anyone else in Wales who has been affected by drowning incidents, because they are, as Vikki Howells said, absolutely devastating, and they devastate not only the families but the communities around those families as well. We really need to be very aware of that. I also want to thank the campaigners who have contributed their time and provided valuable comments to inform the report and for their continued awareness raising, which I think is particularly brave in the circumstances of the tragedy of losing a son, a friend, and a member of your community.

I also want to thank all the members of the Petitions Committee for the production of the 'Mark Allen’s Law: Water safety and drowning prevention' report because it's a very good report indeed and I'm very pleased to be able to accept the recommendations therein.

As the report highlights, there are still too many water-related instances occurring in Wales. The recommendations in the report will enhance Wales's drowning prevention strategy, which was published in December 2020 by Water Safety Wales.

I just want to talk a little bit about that, because various contributions today are absolutely right: we do need to pull the various sectors together here, because this is about water safety, of course, but it is also about encouraging people to use our great outdoors in the right way and in the right circumstances. It's a well-known fact that I'm a very, very keen cold-water wild-water swimmer, and I'm very, very happy to extol the virtues of that kind of swimming. I only wish I'd had the chance to do it while I've had this cold, because I feel sure it would have helped me throw it off, which might seem counterintuitive to people, but actually there are real benefits that it brings to you if you can get into the water. I just extol it. I'm not quite as enthusiastic as the dawn people in Penarth, who go out to greet each day with a dip in the sea, but I'm very fond, nevertheless, of those kinds of activities.

But all the more the reason to make sure that the tragedy that brought about the report today doesn't happen, and there are a number of things that we can do there. We can do the things that the report sets out in terms of education and awareness, we can do the things about the signage, we can do the things about throw lines, but we can't do those everywhere. As Huw has said, there will be areas in Wales that are just not suitable for that. So, what we also need to do is raise awareness of where it is safe to go wild swimming, and why it can be a real problem, particularly on a hot day, to dive into cold water. And again, counterintuitively, it's worse on a hot day to do it than it is on a cold day, because of the extreme change in body temperature.

And also, it isn't about being able to swim. Of course I would absolutely love for everyone in Wales to be able to swim, just for the sheer joy of it, but also for, obviously, the life-saving possibilities. We're a coastal nation, a nation very fond of its water, so of course our people should be able to take the full opportunities that offers. But many of the people who, unfortunately, do drown in water swim very well. That's not the issue. The issue is that they are either caught in an extreme temperature differential that shocks the body, or they're caught in a current, or they're caught in other circumstances, incidents with other craft on the water, and so on. That happens. These are the incidents that we need to have a really good look at.

We must do this in a way that encourages the right kind of wild or outdoor swimming in the right place. So, I would say, for example, that wild swimming for me is very much a community activity. I wouldn't dream of going on my own to do that. I know some people do, but I would discourage that. Getting together with a group of like-minded people, who know the water that they're in and who are prepared to help if you get into difficulties, is a really big part of this. It's part of the community and part of the joy of it, but it's also part of the safety of it. If you're with somebody else, then that person can get help to you as fast as possible. So, I would very much encourage doing it as a community activity.

We do need to have that awareness and we do need to make sure that people understand that the signs are not there just to randomly spoil your fun—they're there for good reason to explain to you what the water conditions are, what the things you can't see under the water might look like, and what the current situation actually is. I would also encourage people, where there are lifeguards, to make sure that they do what the lifeguards ask them to do. We do see quite often people just ignoring the signs and so on, not really understanding the strength and power that water can have when not treated with respect. So, we do need to increase awareness of water safety throughout Wales, and we do need to help people get better informed and to be able to judge the dangers of their surroundings for themselves in the right way.

I'm really happy, Jack, to have accepted the recommendations. I'm happy to have taken responsibility in my portfolio for doing this. It suits my attitude towards it as well. I think you're right: it does need somebody to take a look at it right across the breadth of things that we do. So, I'm very happy to have agreed, and we only agree in principle because we're already doing something in that space that's very similar. So, it's not that we don't agree. We agree with all of them.

I'm really happy to work with outdoor activities and particularly with AdventureSmart Wales in order to get the expertise from right across the sector. My officials are already actioning the recommendations and liaising with Water Safety Wales on next steps, and I look forward to taking this forward together. And again, my sympathies to the family. Diolch.

I call on Jack Sargeant to reply to the debate.

Diolch yn fawr, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I thank all Members for their contributions today, particularly Vikki Howells, who spoke about the devastating impact of losing her student, Daniel, and the devastating impact on the community and wider community that had? Just touching on Huw Irranca-Davies and Sam Rowlands, as the Minister has said there, I too will be keen to work. I think I've already put on the record in a committee that I will meet with the outdoor activity sector cross-party group to discuss the report and perhaps where we can take that further.

My thanks to Luke Fletcher and Joel James, again highlighting the importance of the evidence that we received in putting this report together, but also I think Luke was suggesting that this is just one more step in the right direction for campaigners like Leeanne, and we all have a duty, whether we're in Government or Members of the Senedd, to publish and promote those messages. Minister, I'm extremely grateful to you and your officials for engaging and accepting this report and agreeing with this report in the way that you have.

Just to conclude, Deputy Presiding Officer, I can see time is up, but I do want to pay one final tribute, just this last time to Leeanne Bartley, her husband David, and everyone who signed this petition and who helped us along the way. This again demonstrates the importance of the Senedd Petitions Committee, and I would encourage everyone who wants to change policy to consider signing or submitting a petition. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No, and the motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.