I have agreed to a point of order, and Heledd Fychan with that point of order. 

Thank you, Llywydd. May I ask you review your guidance in terms of hybrid working, given an unfortunate situation that arose in the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport and International Relations Committee this morning? The start of the meeting had to be postponed as we were scrutinising the draft budget, as the Deputy Minister was unexpectedly not in attendance in the committee room, despite being in the building. Given your recent communication, our understanding was that everyone, Ministers and committee members, were expected to be in attendance for scrutiny sessions, and, most importantly, if we are in the building, that we are expected to be in this Chamber. And we thought that that also applied to committees. As the temporary Chair today, I asked officials to ask the Deputy Minister to attend, as she was in the building, but it became apparent that, to avoid further delay, we had to proceed in a hybrid format, but we missed three quarters of an hour of the meeting. So, to avoid future delays of that kind, further guidance would be beneficial.

Alun Davies, further to that point of order.

I'm grateful to the Presiding Officer for allowing me to contribute to this point of order. It was certainly unfortunate what happened this morning, and we accept that. However, the Deputy Minister herself was put into a difficult situation and I attach no blame to the Deputy Minister for the circumstances of what happened this morning. I think the lessons we need to learn in terms of Standing Orders, Presiding Officer, are to enable other committee members to take the chair when necessary and not simply when the Chair is absent. I think that would be a useful thing to do, to look at again, but also then to ensure that the Government is in a position to fully give evidence when it is required to do so. And the point I would make to Ministers—there's one Minister in the Chamber this afternoon—is that we took evidence subsequently from the education Minister, Jeremy Miles, and the evidence we received from Jeremy was first class, and one of the reasons for that was that he was in the room with us and he was able to provide a far greater explanation for his policies and his approach as a consequence of that. So, I attach no blame to the Deputy Minister for the circumstances this morning; it was outside of her control. But I hope that the lesson that Ministers will learn from this is, from their own point of view, they're better off here than there.

And the Deputy Minister herself is intending to, or wanting to, contribute to the point of order. Dawn Bowden.

Diolch, Llywydd. I just think perhaps a fuller explanation of the circumstances would help the Senedd, and I'm not necessarily opposing Heledd Fychan's point of order in terms of getting some clarity around this and the way that the committee scrutiny takes place, but, just to put on record what actually happened, the weather, as you know, was very, very bad this morning and I nearly never made it from Merthyr Tydfil. So, had that happened, I would have had to have joined remotely in any case, but I did come in to Tŷ Hywel. It took me somewhere in the region of an hour and a half or more to get from Merthyr Tydfil to Cardiff, so I only arrived in Tŷ Hywel literally just before the meeting was due to start, and it wasn't until I arrived, just before 9:30, that I was advised by my private office that none of my officials would be attending committee in person; they would all be joining online. I'd been completely unaware of that until that point, and, in those circumstances, I didn't feel it was reasonable for me to attend committee in person on my own, when I would be unable to have direct access to officials, as I'd be able to do if they were there in person. However, if I joined remotely, I would be able to communicate with them electronically if I needed to, and, on that basis, I advised the committee that I would join online to give my evidence.

It took the committee some 45 minutes of discussion to conclude that they were prepared to allow me to do that, so the only issue I would take on that is that the delay of 45 minutes was not of my making; I was ready to give evidence online at 9:30 as scheduled. I would have preferred to give my evidence in person, and I think the point that Alun Davies has made is a point well-made; I do believe that evidence sessions are better in person. The last time I gave evidence to the committee was in person, and I had officials with me in person as well. I'm unaware of what discussions took place between committee clerks and my officials before the meeting that agreed to their online participation, but I was unaware of that, as I thought that the entire meeting was being held in person. So, it was about ensuring that I had the appropriate official support in the appropriate way to be able to present my evidence effectively.

Thank you to the Deputy Minister. Unusually, I've allowed a point of order on a piece of committee business for this session. I've heard all the perspectives of the Members involved, and, as Members know, we're in a new way of working: this is uncharted territory to a certain extent. Guidance, as Heledd Fychan has said, has been issued to Members. We have new experience as of this morning. Regrettably, a committee was delayed by 45 minutes in its ministerial scrutiny. If it is the case that guidance needs to be strengthened as a result of this morning's experience and the experience of committees generally over the past weeks, then I'll ask the Chairs' forum in its very next meeting to reflect on all of that and what has been shared with us from today's experience and to see whether there is a need to strengthen the guidance to all Members, including Ministers, on attendance in committee virtually or in person. So, yes, we'll move on to Plenary business now. Thank you to all concerned for sharing your views on that.