5. Debate on the Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee Report: 'The future of bus and rail in Wales'

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:17 pm on 18 January 2023.

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Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 4:17, 18 January 2023

Well, Alun Davies challenged me to pass the Blaenau Gwent test earlier, and I can tell him that there's also an Alun Davies test, which is being applied to the congestion charge, because Julie James and I have been having active conversations with Cardiff about the design of the congestion charge, and the points that he makes are absolutely fair and need to be built into the design of the system. But I would say that even his constituents, coming into Cardiff, would benefit from less congestion in Cardiff. So, it does benefit everybody, not just—. I think this is a slight false divide. I'd hate to create a culture war between Cardiff and the Valleys. But the thrust of his point is a fair one, and it is being designed into the system. I hope that gives him some reassurance. 

A number of other points were made, Dirprwy Lywydd. The core of the issue is, as a country, across the UK, we have not been putting the investment into public transport over a considerable time for us to be able to match the sort of services we get when we go to the continent. And that's the nub of the problem. And we're now facing the difficulty of trying to redistribute a too-small slice of public spending to meet the demands of a much better service, which we require both to address transport poverty, as both Llyr Huws Gruffydd and Delyth Jewell mentioned, which I think is absolutely right, and the bus reforms are as much about social justice as they are about climate justice. But, without that funding, then we are not able to do all of the things that we want to do.

The new corporate joint committee structure will help, the regional collaboration will help, but, ultimately, we need to have the money there to fund the services, and that is I think something all of us collectively are going to have to face up to. We are putting in the changes to the wiring that will improve the rail service, improve the bus service, improve the active travel service, to put in disincentives as well as to reallocate funding away from new road-building schemes, and we hope to bring forward the results of the roads review shortly. So, we are doing a great deal, but we are not doing as much as we would all want us to do because simply we do not have the money to do it. Diolch.