We'll move on now to item 7, the statement by the Minister for Education and Welsh Language on the census 2021 Welsh language results. I call on the Minister to make the statement—Jeremy Miles.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I've already said that the census headline figures were disappointing and not what we'd hoped to see. Having said that, it's important to acknowledge that there's more to the story than just the headlines, and there is more to language policy than just the census.

First of all, let's remind ourselves of the results. On census day, 21 March 2021, around 538,000 usual residents in Wales aged three years or older were reported as being able to speak Welsh. That's just under 18 per cent of the population. But that's almost 24,000 fewer people than in the 2011 census. In terms of children aged three to 15 years old, there was a reduction of around 6 percentage point in the proportion reported as being able to speak Welsh. But during the same period, there was growth of over 11,000 in the numbers in Welsh-medium education since the 2011 census.

There were small increases in the percentage of young adults able to speak Welsh—that is, those aged 16 to 44 years old—from 17.2 per cent in 2011 to 17.9 per cent in 2021, and there are more data on the way. These will include different geographical levels, data about ethnicity, and an idea of how many Welsh-speaking children there are in households where there are Welsh-speaking adults—intergenerational transmission of Welsh, to use the technical term. We're hoping that these new data will be released in the coming months, and I get to see them at the exact same time as everybody else does—not a minute before, exactly as was the case in December. We've had an initial opportunity, therefore, to consider these results. The thing that's blindingly obvious is that we need to look in great detail at the three to 15-year-old group. Without doubt, we'll need more analyses, and we'll work on these throughout the year.

It's worth noting, as we look at different results of different surveys about Welsh, that we see that they tell us different things, and we need to know why that is. The most recent annual population survey states that almost 900,000 people can speak Welsh, compared with the 538,000 reported in the 2021 census. Our national survey for Wales shows a substantial increase in the percentage of people aged 16 or older who have some Welsh-speaking ability. Why? The census question is quite stark and binary, and I know a lot of people—as I'm sure you do, too—who tell me, in Welsh, that they are not confident enough to tick the Welsh language box in the census.

New speakers are all-important for the future of our language. I'd like to see acknowledgment that passive speakers are an important part of the solutions for the future, which means more bilingual conversations and culture change. We're building on decades of having to choose between Welsh and English, whereas the reality for most of us is that we live bilingual lives. The First Minister has written to the national statistician to ask him to examine how and why different surveys about the same topic can produce diverse results. I'm looking forward to co-operating to understand more about this. There's a gap between different surveys; that, in truth, is not unusual. What is unusual is for one to have gone up, whilst another has gone down. And when we get the answer and when we get the remainder of the census data, we'll update our statistical trajectory for 'Cymraeg 2050', exactly as we pledged back in 2017.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

It's quite natural, of course, for people to ask what these latest results mean for our work. First, I want to assure you of our complete commitment to 1 million Welsh speakers and to doubling the number of us who use Welsh every day. And it's important also to acknowledge that Cymraeg 2050 had only been in place for less than four years at the time the 2021 census was held. It's also important to emphasise that a significant portion of that period was disrupted by the COVID-19 pandemic. Despite the pandemic, we've worked hard to create the necessary infrastructure for our language strategy, particularly in education, and I'll be making a further statement about education and Cymraeg next week.

To achieve these goals, it's always been clear that we need much more than just our efforts in the Welsh Government. All of us—headteachers, businesses, politicians, local authorities, leaders of organisations—need to take more responsibility for Cymraeg 2050 and make it more of a priority as an integral part of everything that we do. Cymraeg belongs to us all, and so does the responsibility for its future. This means that we may need to change the way that the wider 'we' work and the things that we do. And, over the next couple of months, I'll be doing quite a few things myself. For example, I want to take a hard look at how Welsh works in our English-medium schools.

There has been a further decline in our Welsh-speaking communities, and the commission for Welsh-speaking communities, which I launched last August, has launched a call for evidence. I'll have an interest in knowing what evidence has come to light. And I'm especially interested in knowing more about depopulation and whether, in this new normal, there are new opportunities for those areas to prosper in a different way. Social enterprises are one way for communities to grasp their future, and there are great examples of these already. That's why I've given £400,000 this year to Cwmpas to work in partnership with us to increase the number of those operating through the medium of Welsh. 

Another area that's important is the 0 to 4 age bracket. Growing Welsh-medium education will continue to be a priority for this Government. So, working with families to ensure a route into Welsh for all in the early years is paramount for the future of Welsh. But, it's also worth noting that this age group are decreasing in terms of number. So, it's important that we make sure that as many as possible take up the provision that's available.

We'll have another cohort on our Leading in a Bilingual Country programme. This programme is for senior leaders to discuss how to do Cymraeg 2050 in their organisations. It's about values, both personal and organisational, and how to bring hearts and minds with us. It also means listening deeply to people's stories of their own experience with Welsh. Appropriate workforce planning to enable us to use Welsh in the workplace is also vital, and all the more important for young people coming through the education system. Our partners will be just as important as ever to ensure that there will be opportunities for us all to use Welsh. That's why I've just approved more than £260,000 in additional funding for them during the current financial year. 

Over the next year, I'd like to understand more about the following areas: why, first of all, do so many children who leave Welsh-medium education not feel confident enough to use their Welsh after leaving school? Is a lack of opportunity the problem, or is it the formality of the Welsh used in education, or both? But, to return to formality and Welsh, that's also something I want to look at in more detail. Lots of people have raised with me the fact that Welsh has become translationese and not something that touches them as people. And I want to know what else technology can offer to make Welsh easier to use and to make it more contemporary for children and young people. I therefore want to confirm that I'll continue to invest in this important field, and I want our computers to be considered Welsh speakers in the future. 

So, my message today is that we need to continue to be optimistic about our language. I feel that the disappointment of the results has sparked a new enthusiasm to work in different ways for the benefit of the Welsh language. The Football Association of Wales and others have shown clearly that Cymraeg is something that can bring us together, however much of it we can speak. There’s more pride in our language and in our identity than ever before, and I’m confident that we can increase the number of Welsh speakers, that everyone can be on a language journey and that we can create opportunities to use Welsh in every aspect of our everyday lives.

Thank you to the Minister for giving me sight of the statement before it was delivered—thank you. The results of the 2021 census were a disappointment, given this Welsh Government's ambition of a million Welsh speakers by 2050. I see it as a significant setback that Wales has moved backwards in moving towards our target. So, it's important that we don't allow this setback to undermine what we're trying to achieve.

Now, we're all highly aware of the challenges in terms of teacher recruitment, particularly in ensuring that we recruit sufficient numbers of Welsh-speaking educators to teach in our Welsh-medium and bilingual schools—a point that is highlighted by the census data. A high percentage of Welsh-speaking teachers are approaching retirement age while some choose to leave the profession early. Given that there aren't enough newly qualified teachers who are Welsh speaking joining the profession, this is a great barrier to delivering the targets of Cymraeg 2050. According to the Welsh Government's own data, in order to reach the target of Cymraeg 2050 and to implement every Welsh in education strategic plan effectively, the Welsh Government should be recruiting and training 550 teachers per annum. In reality, this figure is 250—300 teachers short of the numbers necessary every year. Given this, I'd be interested in hearing how the Minister intends to tackle this shortfall. I'm sure that he'd agree with me that we need great improvement in recruitment policies if we are to have any hope of achieving our targets.

In addition to this, we also know that Welsh-medium and bilingual education alone will not deliver the numbers of Welsh speakers required to reach the 2050 target. As I've said previously, we should use all the tools available to us to reach that target, and, therefore, given the opportunities available to us within English-medium education, I'm sure you would agree that they have an increasingly important role to play. The new school categorisation system published by the Welsh Government requires every English-medium school to provide 15 per cent of teaching activities through the medium of Welsh, which is an increase on current levels, but not enough teachers have the right level of Welsh language skills to deliver this increase, and this was reflected within the census data. In the areas where education is delivered mainly through the medium of English, the numbers who use the Welsh language saw serious decline.

We have to be clear that the problems with regard to the education workforce are very complex and we need collaboration between the Welsh Government, colleges, universities and local authorities to resolve them. One area where the Welsh Government could alleviate this problem significantly is within the current consultation that assesses the criteria in terms of initial teacher education accreditation in Wales, and the consultation closed last week. Initial teacher education partnerships have a role in developing a bilingual education workforce, and, therefore, the criteria for accreditation are a clear way for the Welsh Government to set out its expectations in this regard. It's important that the Welsh Government does ensure that the criteria, which will be renewed, go far enough and are consistent with the current Government policy around the Welsh language and Welsh-medium education—a clear and practical way for the Government to show their policy of a million Welsh speakers as being a target and an ambition.

A final point on the census: if you consider that there are two censuses to come before the year 2050, I would like to know whether the Government has calculated what the number of Welsh speakers should be for those next two censuses in order to ensure that we're on the right trajectory towards a million Welsh speakers by 2050. I agree with you, Minister, that the Welsh language belongs to us all, as does the responsibility for its future, but it's your Government that puts policies in place for its future. So, best of luck to you. Thank you, Llywydd.

I thank Samuel Kurtz for those many questions. I'll do my best to deal with most of them, if I may. I'm not going to reiterate what I said about the importance of looking at the data in its context and looking at the other sources of data as well in terms of analysing where the numbers of speakers are at present. Myself, I'm not looking at this as a setback. We have a choice: either to look at it as a setback or as a driver. On the whole, people have looked at it as an inspiration. Certainly, the figures are disappointing, but the task now is to look to the future and look at what it tells us, and to recommit across the nation. 

In terms of the education workforce, the Member knows that I do see this as a very challenging area. In May last year, we published the 'Welsh in education workforce plan'. That plan notes the steps that we will take in partnership with other organisations to increase the number of teachers but also school leaders and assistants in the Welsh-medium sector, and also—this is important in the context of another question asked by the Member—to develop the Welsh language skills of all practitioners. That 10-year period does align with the 10-year cycle for the new WESPs and additional funding will be invested in the next three years to implement the 10-year plan. So, that is a clear sign of our commitment to being creative and ambitious. We will be looking again at the recruitment levels consistently and will be reporting officially to the Senedd every two years, but the data, of course, will be available more often than that.

In terms of learning Welsh in the English-medium sector, the Member knows that we have published a framework on this recently. He talked about categorisation. That's an important way of increasing Welsh-medium provision in the English-medium sector. For the first time, we have, as part of the new curriculum, a requirement that Welsh is in every school. So, that's a big stride to make. I think the opportunity that we have is to unify the Welsh and English systems so that every child who goes through the system, whichever one, has a fair chance of leaving the system with Welsh language skills. That's the challenge. It's not that we look at the two systems separately, but that it is one system that provides those opportunities for every learner. We need to understand the skills of the workforce better than we do at present, particularly the passive skills and also the skills of people who can speak Welsh but lack confidence in terms of its use in the workplace.

The point that the Member makes in terms of initial teacher education is important. I've been discussing this with the partnerships as we look at the cohort that we have of students at present. Looking at the criteria for qualifications is a part of that, as the Member suggests.

Finally, in terms of the trajectory for 2050 generally, we are committed to looking at that again after the census results. We were intending to do that anyway, so we'll be doing that over the next year.

Thank you, Minister, for this important statement today. I fully accept the point that you've made, we all know people who haven't ticked that box in terms of the Welsh language in the census. But, I have to say that I am concerned in hearing you say a number of times, as the First Minister has also done—you used the words 'just' the census. But, the census is exceptionally important. In 2011, the Government said, as a result of those results, that the census results would steer their work on the Welsh language now and for the future.

Certainly, I don't want us to give the impression that the census isn't a very important tool. If we think that 96.4 per cent of residents did respond, compared to the 12,000 who take part in the annual Welsh survey, there might be questions to ask of that survey, more so than of the census. What I would like to see is that we shouldn't discount these results, but that we take that clear warning, the warning that we received in 2011, and the Government acknowledged how important the census was in those terms. Because, clearly, the census does seek to ensure that those statistics look at all of the data available in order to provide assurances that the statistics are of the best quality and value for users. So, can I ask, therefore, why there's been a change between 2011 and now in how the Government considers the census results, and what reason is there to question particularly the data this time? I would like to understand, particularly if the emphasis has been so important in the past, why this change now, if you're referring to a sample of 12,000 in the Welsh Government's annual survey.

But this doesn't help us in terms of—. We know of people's experiences; we speak to them. There were pupils from an English-medium school who were in today, aged 13 and 14, saying, 'Well, we've already missed out on the opportunity of accessing the Welsh language.' These have been in our education system since the establishment of this Senedd, they've gone to secondary school since the target of a million Welsh speakers has existed, so we know of people who are losing out on opportunities in our education system now. I was pleased to hear you say that that is a priority of yours, in considering your response—what are the experiences of every pupil in Wales, whatever school they attend? And I certainly feel that this is a question that was asked a decade ago, but, if we are serious about ensuring that that target of a million Welsh speakers is a target, rather than simply being an aspiration, then we have to see action. And certainly, I don't want to see this target being treated in the same way as the target of eradicating child poverty by 2020, where we have a situation that child poverty is higher than ever. This has to be a real target. And that's why we have been seeing these WESPs develop. And there are targets there that have been missed time and time again, and Sam Kurtz was quite right about that target. It's not just these results that are worrying, but it's the targets underneath the million Welsh speakers that are being missed already, even in the early years of the programme. 

And the point on the number of teachers is exceptionally important because—. We have questioned this on a number of occasions and it's very important in terms of, if we say that we need to train around 550 teachers every year, and we're only reaching 250, then, obviously, we're not going to reach the target—that's quite clear. When I was a councillor on RCT council, I saw year on year that we were missing targets, if we are to reach a million Welsh speakers, in terms of the number of pupils in Welsh-medium education. So, I think that our interventions have to be far more radical, because, if we know that the targets we're already pursuing, we're falling behind in that regard, then how can that equate to the census results? 

What I'd also like to ask is—. You refer to that feeling of national pride as part of all of this, but that isn't going to keep the Welsh language alive, and we do need to ensure that those opportunities outside the classroom are available. What concerns me with the cost-of-living crisis is that those are the kinds of activities that we will see being lost if there isn't use of them and if councils don't see their value, or because they're non-statutory services. And I think we do have to look seriously at that. 

You mentioned in your statement that everyone has a role, but there is prominent role for Government here, because it is the Government's target. So, what I would like some clarity on today is what is the change in terms of your attitude towards the census results. Why don't you refer to just the census? And in earnest, how are we to ensure that we don't miss those targets, that we do work together, rather than coming together in another 10 years to then say we need radical action when we have the opportunity now?

Some fair questions there. The thing to confirm, though, is that we haven't changed our viewpoint on the census—that is what shows us the figures within the strategy. We've said that at the outset, and that hasn't changed, but you can't just look at this through one eye. You have two sources of data that are telling you very different things—and, by the way, it's not the Welsh Government leading on this; the ONS does both. That's why I've asked the national statistician to explain the difference between the two in terms of looking at policy interventions that are practical and ambitious, which is the solution, and I agree with the Member about that. We have to look at the context in its entirety; one piece of data isn’t sufficient. But, just to be clear, we're not disregarding what the census says, but the fact that it has happened in the time frame that it has, during COVID, is obviously something that you can’t just ignore. You can't just look at this with one eye. You have to look at the broader context. We will be looking at the trajectory again in the wake of what we’ve seen in the census.

In terms of the interventions that you mention, we have a choice, if you like—on one level a political choice, perhaps. There’s a range of things that we could have held back as a response to the census that we've been doing over the past year. I’ve talked about some of those things today—the education workforce plan, and free lessons for people and so forth. We could have held them back, but, at the end of the day, if these figures had shown a significant increase, we'd still need to do those things and press ahead with them. So, that’s the strategic decision to be taken. We need to increase the numbers even from the 900,000 that’s shown in the survey. So, that’s the choice that I made—to press ahead rather than to wait, and I’m sure that you agree that that’s the right to do, of course.

But there are things to be learned that emerge from the census. I've mentioned them already. We need to look seriously at the contribution of learning Welsh in the English-medium education system. I want to look at those regions where there has been a significant decline, such as Carmarthenshire, which, for the second time, for two censuses in a row, has shown a decline. That does cause us great concern. So, we need to look at a community level, or do more research at that level, to see exactly what’s happening. I intend to undertake a series of local meetings to look into the local factors that have been relevant to that as well.

But I mentioned in another context, in the committee, that we’re looking again at the grant scheme to see whether it does drive the objectives that we have. So, I’m not just going to say, ‘Well, we have one set of figures that show an increase, or progress’; we have to press ahead. We have some things that we’ve done over the last year, but there’s always more that we can do, and we do intend to do, over the years to come.

The census is a very poor measure of the number of Welsh speakers. Of course, in the early censuses, the question was ‘Welsh, English or both’. It is self-choosing. Parents also make a decision on behalf of their children, so it’s not an accurate method of collecting information. I speak Welsh every day, but rarely in debates, and I only speak to people I am confident will not try and trap me with my lack of fluency.

I'm not confident speaking Welsh.

I ticked the ‘speak Welsh’ box, but could have ticked the ‘do not speak Welsh’ box. Does the Minister agree with me that, in future censuses, after ‘Do you speak Welsh?’, you should have a question of, ‘How often? Is it daily, more than once a week or more than once a month?' I await the additional data that will identify the areas where most people speak Welsh. Where over three in four people speak Welsh, such as Caernarfon, it becomes the language used in society, in shops and in pubs. Does the Minister agree with me that, with the growth of incidental Welsh in primary schools, almost all children in primary schools can be said to speak some Welsh? The census won’t pick that up, but do you think we ought to be finding out more about the standard of Welsh of children in English-medium primary schools who are picking up a substantial amount of social Welsh?

I thank the Member for that. That’s very important; it does throw some light on the discussion I just had with Heledd Fychan. We need to look at and understand what these figures tell us. I do agree that, if you ask the question, ‘Can you speak Welsh?’ on the one hand, and then the other question is, ‘How much Welsh can you speak?’, you’re likely to get different results. There has been an increase in the number of children in Welsh-medium education, and those figures are higher than the number of children whose parents said they could speak Welsh. So, we need to look at that, and I do agree that the annual survey does ask questions more similar to, ‘How often do you speak Welsh?’, and so it’s likely to show a more complex picture.

If you look at where the figures in terms of a reduction among ages three to 15, they are in those areas of Wales where there is a lower density of Welsh speakers, for example, Torfaen, Newport and Blaenau Gwent, and I think that’s an important context as well in terms of the perception of parents regarding the ability of their children to speak Welsh in a period when they have been out of school for periods because of COVID. I think we do need to understand that context as well.

Thank you for your statement, Minister. The census results do show a decline in the percentage of Welsh speakers in almost every area, including for all ages, and among children aged three to 15 in every county in my region. Therefore, it's very important that the broad range of local initiatives that promote the language, especially those that have received investment from Welsh Government, continue to receive support, as you mentioned.

Tŷ'r Gwrhyd, as you know, is a Welsh language centre in Pontardawe that was established with the support of the Bwrw Mlaen capital investment grant, and it's a good example of what's possible in terms of ensuring informal support for Welsh-medium education for children and adults and community use of the language, and does that crucial work of increasing people's confidence outside the classroom. The centre, through its bookshop, generates income that's reinvested entirely in the centre and its activities, including providing part-time employment for two local Welsh speakers, but the income isn't enough to sustain the initiative in the long term, after the building's rental payments through the Bwrw Mlaen grant end in 2026. So, what is the Welsh Government doing to support initiatives such as Tŷ'r Gwrhyd, which has a successful track record of strengthening the Welsh language at a community level, but faces an uncertain future due to the economic crisis as was outlined by Heledd Fychan?

Menter Iaith Castell-nedd Port Talbot is one of those initiatives that has been allocated funding as part of the statement that I made today in terms of looking at the current pressures as a result of additional costs, so there will be additional funding presented to that initiative. I was there some weeks ago for a very entertaining evening with Cleif Harpwood, who launched his book. It was a very entertaining night, and that's an example of the great community events that are happening. I think the challenge is ensuring that we move the lens to empower communities—so, what is the role of an initiative in terms of increasing capacity in the community to use the Welsh language, and creating other spaces where the Welsh language can be used.

That's why I was very pleased to be able to allocate about £400,000 to Cwmpas to work with initiatives to develop Welsh-speaking social spaces. I think we've worked with four initiatives that have done that within their own structures. That shows that creativity and innovation is happening within the sector. So, the work that a variety of initiatives are undertaking is very important, and that's been reflected in our commitment as a Government.   

I welcome the Minister's statement this afternoon, and I do think it is important that the Minister does respond to the census results and I'm pleased that he's done so, and I welcome what he's outlined this afternoon. I think it's important that he does respond in the way that he has. There are three things that I would like to say this afternoon—three priorities, perhaps, would be a better way of expressing it. 

First of all, education. We've discussed education already during this session, and education is crucially important when it comes to ensuring that we create new Welsh speakers, providing opportunities for those from non-Welsh-speaking backgrounds to learn the language and to develop confidence, and also teaching children about the language and giving children an opportunity to acquire the language. So, education is crucially important.

The second thing is communities. We do know about the pressures on the Welsh language in many of those communities where the Welsh language has been strong, has traditionally been the main language, and it's important that we safeguard the future of our Welsh-speaking communities. 

The third thing—and I don't want to upset the Llywydd here—is we also need to promote the Welsh language, because there are a number of people I know—Mike alluded to this—who have the ability to use the Welsh language but don't have the confidence always to use it. There are a number of contexts where people have grown used to using the English language, and I do think that we have to create a culture where people feel comfortable in using the Welsh language where they previously used English, but also that there are new opportunities for people to use the Welsh language. And I'm a lot more confident than many in the Chamber here today, and I've seen a change during my lifetime in attitudes towards the Welsh language. I am convinced that we can reach that target of a million Welsh speakers, and also that we can create the bilingual Wales that we all agree that we want to see, but we've never achieved in the past. So, keep going, Minister—I'm very confident in your abilities.

Well, I agree entirely with the Member in terms of his priorities. We've talked a lot about education, but I'd just make two points about that—firstly, how important the immersion scheme is in terms of ensuring that anyone who moves to Wales and wants access to Welsh-language education succeeds in doing that. We have a fund now, from now until the end of the Senedd term, of around £6.6 million to spend on that. Every part of Wales, every local authority, has had an allocation from that fund. That in itself is very encouraging. I was interviewed upstairs earlier today by a six-year-old girl who had moved from England, from a Mexican family, to Wales in September, and she interviewed me in Welsh, after being through the immersion system. It's more than effective; it is, on one level, miraculous, to see how quickly the immersion process can engender results. That's the first thing. And the second thing is the awareness in schools of Welsh as a cultural context for the education of young people—in the curriculum, the work of the language charter, and so forth. I agree entirely that that's vital.

In terms of the emphasis on communities, we have discussed that already, of course, in a variety of questions, but I'd just say that it's vital, as well as the question of numbers, that we do look at the geography of the language as well. Welsh is in a situation where it is a national language but also a community language, and those two things are vital in terms of the Government's policy response and more broadly.

Just in terms of his point on promotion, I do agree that one of the challenges we face is the confidence challenge. There are children leaving Welsh-medium education who perhaps don't have the confidence to speak it. There are people like Mike, who can speak Welsh but, as he himself says, doesn't have enough confidence to use it. That's the next challenge that we have—finding those people can speak Welsh but who need more support to use it, and we need a clearer emphasis on that in the future, perhaps.

Thank you to the Minister for the statement—there's a great deal to digest there. It is concerning, of course, to see the decline in Gwynedd, for example. At this point, I have to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the excellent work of Gwynedd Council over a period of decades in ensuring that almost all children going through the education system there are fluent in Welsh. But how, therefore, can you equate that to the census result, which shows the numbers of Welsh speakers in Gwynedd declining? There must be something else going on here.

Our demographics show that we are ageing, and we know that migration does play an important part, particularly the out-migration of our young people from the Welsh-speaking heartlands. And this perhaps is the key to resolving this problem, and you mentioned it yourself in your opening statement. We have to look at this in depth. Among all of the elements that play a part in this, there is the element of housing—the lack of affordable housing, the lack of the availability of housing, and, as important, there are also infrastructure problems in maintaining a viable economy. So, I am going to ask you to ensure that the commission that you are establishing does hold a deep-dive, a detailed inquiry, into out-migration: why do young people not remain in those communities, and what role does housing and the lack of infrastructure play in that?

And finally, we also have to mention technology. I see my own children, from five to 15, and they live on Netflix, YouTube, TikTok, and so on, and there's hardly any Welsh-medium content on those platforms. We have to look at how we can use those platforms in order to promote the Welsh language more effectively and ensure that the Welsh language is a living language on these modern platforms. Thank you.

I thank Mabon ap Gwynfor for those questions. I think he's right to say that there are elements in terms of moving, in terms of out-migration, in terms of demographics, in terms of opportunities, and the commission is certainly going to tackle those sorts of issues—part of the work that they are currently doing is socioeconomic analysis. They have called for evidence and that is coming in, and I expect that we'll hear some challenging things as a result of that—hearing honest answers, with real evidence on the ground, is what's needed as the basis for policy. So, I do welcome that.

In terms of the economic challenge, I do think that we have—. If you look at the distribution in terms of communities, I believe that there is a very important role to be played by our universities as economic drivers in different parts of Wales where this is a challenge. We need to look at what more we can do in that area, Of course, the Arfor programme is doing its work, but I am very confident that the work that the commission will do is going to be very significant in that context.

Regarding investing in technology, we as a Government are already investing in contemporary items, such as the investment in VR for immersion for young people, so they can do that in a virtual-reality context—so, things that young people do identify as opportunities, to use that to spread the language. But I do think the Member is right to mention things like YouTube and Netflix and so forth. The streaming services, such as Amazon Prime and Netflix, are very important. Dal y Mellt is on Netflix now, which is great—I hope that'll be the first of many items of Welsh content on those streaming services.

Finally, Delyth Jewell.

Thank you, Llywydd. The Welsh language has gone through a number of challenges over the centuries,  and it has endured, but what we need to see is the language not only surviving but flourishing. That won't come through children alone; we have to find better ways of normalising the learning of the language among older people and adults.  We have great centres such as Canolfan Soar in Merthyr. What support is there to enable communities to take risks, to encourage authorities to invest in centres that will do more than create economic benefits, but create cultural benefits and benefits for the soul of our society? Waldo Williams spoke about hope as a master, and hope is essential.  But the hope must take root; it must take root in something. So, I will ask you, Minister: how will the Welsh Government incorporate this hope into our communities?

Thank you very much for that. In terms of lifelong learning, that's truly very important, and what we want to do is to understand how all of the ways of learning Welsh do sit on the continuum—that is, GCSE and A-level qualifications, but also adult education. We need to reflect that pathway, and that's an important way of encouraging people to continue with their learning or to start afresh, if they haven't had an opportunity in school. So, that work is very important.

I think the Member makes a very important point on those social spaces where the Welsh language can be used, and I do think that Soar chapel is a good metaphor for this. The chapels, generally speaking, aren't driving the social use of the Welsh language in our communities, for reasons that we'll all understand. But the challenge for us is to identify the spaces that do that. If you look at Cardiff, for example, you have places such as Chapter, where people can come and be with others, but that doesn't exist in every community. So, where are the opportunities there? So, that's part of the aspiration too, and I agree entirely with the optimistic vision set out by the Member in her question.

I thank the Minister for that statement.