2. Will the Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government's discussions regarding the pay and conditions of Royal Mail workers in Wales? OQ59003

Whilst Royal Mail remains a reserved matter, I have regular contact with both the Communications Workers Union and Royal Mail, given the significance of the service to both workers and communities across Wales. I last met with the CWU and Royal Mail, separately, on 11 and 16 January.

Okay. Thank you. Deputy Minister, I have been increasingly concerned about the misinformation being given by Royal Mail to MSs, MPs and the public. I've made it my mission to make sure that the truth is out there. I was pleased to talk to Darren Jones MP, who's the chair of the Westminster select committee, and was able to have that conversation with him prior to interviewing the chief executive officer of Royal Mail. And, similarly, it was good to jointly invite members of the Communication Workers Union to the Senedd, with Luke Fletcher. And 20 Members of the Senedd listened to what was actually really happening on the ground, including withholding sick pay from the workers.

Minister, do you agree with me that it's extremely concerning, what we're seeing, and the obvious attempts to water down the involvement of trade unions by private companies such as Royal Mail, and, also, in the public sector through UK Government legislation regarding tightening strikes et cetera, and that workers need to have their voices heard? This is so important, because such misinformation is given out to the public. So, thank you—I just wanted to get that across today. 

Can I thank Carolyn Thomas for her question? I know this is an area that the Member's very committed to and passionate about, not least because of her own background as well. And it is good to have people here with lived experience, especially when something is in the headlines in the way she describes it in her question. 

I absolutely agree with Carolyn Thomas. We completely oppose the UK Government's latest assault on workers and trade unions, who are the legitimate voice of workers in the workplace, whether that be public or private sector. On the minimum service levels Bill, the way to resolve industrial disputes is to get round the table and find a negotiated solution. And that isn't always easy; it's sometimes protracted, but that's the right way to do it, through meaningful negotiation, to seek a solution that not only sustains the service, but supports the workforce who are essential to providing that service. And that new legislation is the complete opposite way to go in terms of actually how we reach solutions to the current challenges that we face. 

It will be no surprise to anybody here that I absolutely agree with the Member with regard to how vital it is that workers have the opportunity and choice to be represented collectively in the work environment, which enables them to be heard. It not only brings about benefits in terms of workers' pay and terms and conditions, but we know that the people that provide those services, whether that be companies such as Royal Mail, or within the public sector too, have ideas in terms of actually how you can improve that service. And, actually, by supporting your workers, and engaging a better workforce, it actually brings benefits for the employer as well, and it helps them with any challenges or issues at an early stage.

When I met with both CWU and Royal Mail, one thing that struck me with the CWU meeting is, actually, there were some positive proposals there of actually recognising the challenges Royal Mail faces as a company, because the way we live has changed, and the way people send fewer letters but more parcels. But, actually, on the recognition, as we've said in this place before, of the role that posties play in our communities, there is a way to actually build on that in a positive way, rather than drive it down. And I'm very much looking to work with CWU and Royal Mail in terms of how we can support that, not only to support the workforce, but to support services, and the universal service obligation that is so important to us here in Wales. 

Deputy Minister, as you know, the Royal Mail strikes over the Christmas period not only had a financial impact on Royal Mail, but caused profound reputational damage as well. I think we all here agree that it is an individual's right to take industrial action, but we need to be aware that these strikes have had far-reaching consequences that are just not limited to Royal Mail. Small and medium-sized businesses, who make up 99.4 per cent of Welsh businesses and 62 per cent of employment in Wales, rely heavily on seasonal trade and, having struggled to deliver in time for Christmas, have consequently experienced considerable loss in orders, with customers either having cancelled their orders or not bothered ordering at all. Now, whilst I have no doubt that many here are sympathetic to the strikers' cause, they have to be aware that many businesses who are already dealing with the impact of COVID and energy prices have not survived due to these strikes. 

Also, Deputy Minister, unlike several years ago, when there few alternatives, there are now many other companies who can compete for services that Royal Mail offers. And we have seen large companies like Currys switching their extremely large and lucrative contracts to other providers, which undoubtedly is going to provide additional financial strain on Royal Mail long term. As the Deputy Minister will know, Royal Mail has now announced plans to cut 10,000 roles by the end of August 2023 due to the strikes, and the mounting loss is expected to be around £350 million. What discussions have you had with Royal Mail—[Interruption.]—to limit job losses in Wales? Thank you.

Diolch. Can I thank Mike Hedges for helping answer my question there in advance? I will say at the outset that I welcome Joel James putting on the record that he recognises that it's a person's right to take industrial action, and the decision to take industrial action is one that is never taken lightly by any worker or trade union. Here, we support the right of all workers to take industrial action, and it is always the last resort.

As I said previously, we know the best way to respond is to work in social partnership with employers and trade unions to find a negotiated solution. That isn't easy; it can be difficult, it can be protracted. But, it's the right thing to do. In my meetings with both CWU and Royal Mail, they have confirmed they are back in talks. Although I'm unable to comment on that, as it's not my place to do so today, we hope we can seek a solution. We know that Royal Mail faces many challenges, but the way to work through those challenges is to involve your workforce and support them to support our communities in Wales.