So, I call on the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales.

Motion NDM8197 Lesley Griffiths

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 26.11:

Agrees to the general principles of the Agriculture (Wales) Bill.

Motion NDM8198 Lesley Griffiths

To propose that the Senedd, for the purposes of any provisions resulting from the Agriculture (Wales) Bill, agrees to any increase in expenditure of a kind referred to in Standing Order 26.69, arising in consequence of the Bill.

Motions moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm very pleased to open this debate on the general principles of the Agriculture (Wales) Bill and to move the motion and the financial resolution. The Bill represents an important first step in our plans for agricultural reform. It is the first of its kind for Wales, and is a made-in-Wales policy designed to support Welsh priorities.

Welsh farmers hold an important position in our society, not only recognised for their role in producing a supply of safe, high-quality food, but also for their opportunity to help tackle some of the most pressing challenges our country faces. We must respond to the climate and nature emergencies. The need for action at scale and to deliver outcomes at pace is essential if we are to ensure a sustainable and resilient agricultural sector for present and future generations.

The Welsh Government is committed to a just transition to a new low-carbon future, and our farmers and the communities in which they operate play a vital role in delivering that just transition and the move to net zero. The Bill establishes sustainable land management as the framework, demonstrating this commitment to support farmers to lower their carbon footprint and deliver for nature whilst, at the same time, continuing to produce food sustainably through resilient agriculture businesses. It also recognises the key role farmers play as stewards of our Welsh language, heritage and culture.

The concept of sustainable land management is referenced by four objectives and the associated sustainable land management duty. The objectives and duty legislate for a made-in-Wales agricultural policy that incorporates the wide-ranging and significant economic, environmental and social contribution of agriculture in Wales.

Presenting sustainable land management as a set of objectives is consistent with and complements the approach of other Welsh legislation, such as the Environment (Wales) Act 2016 and the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. The sustainable land management objectives make clear what we're aiming to achieve, providing the legislative and policy platform for ongoing action in accordance with the SLM duty that best contributes to achieving this production of food and other goods in a sustainable manner, whilst tackling the climate and nature emergencies, sustaining and promoting the Welsh language, and conserving the Welsh countryside and our cultural resources. In doing so, the Bill recognises the complementary objectives of supporting farmers in the sustainable production of food, contributing to thriving rural communities and keeping farmers on the land.

I would like to thank the Chairs and members of the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee, including members of the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee who also participated in the ETRA committee, the Finance Committee and the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their thorough scrutiny of this Bill during Stage 1. I appreciate the work that has gone into delivering their comprehensive and helpful reports within a very tight timescale. It is also important that I thank all the farmers, stakeholders and communities who've contributed, supported and worked with us to develop the proposals for this vital legislation. The combined expertise, challenge and perspective has been and continues to be invaluable to the development of this Bill and future schemes.

My written statement of 3 February 2023 highlighted the productive discussions held with Plaid Cymru as part of the co-operation agreement on amendments to the Bill. The intention is to bring forward those amendments at Stage 2, should Members agree the general principles of the Bill today. The amendments are: introduction of additional text in relation to the first sustainable land management objective, section 1 of the Bill. For the purposes of the first objective, factors relevant to whether food and other goods are produced in a sustainable manner include, amongst other things, the resilience of agricultural businesses within the communities in which they operate.

Three additional purposes to the power to provide support, section 8 of the Bill, have also been drafted to be inserted within subsection (2). These follow the first purpose of encouraging the production of food in an environmentally sustainable manner. The additional purposes are: (b) helping rural communities to thrive and strengthening links between agricultural businesses and their communities; (c) improving the resilience of agricultural businesses; and (d) sustaining the Welsh language and promoting and facilitating its use. The amendments support the resilience of agricultural business by enabling an effective, efficient, profitable and, therefore, sustainable production base and supply chain. This links directly to the farmer. Supporting farmers with their own well-being, engagement with their communities, sustaining and promoting the Welsh language and business diversification are all key aspects to keeping farmers on the land.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Turning to the recommendations from the committees, given the detailed nature of the committee reports and the number of recommendations made—84 in total—it is not possible to respond to each one of them individually in the time available today. I have already provided a written response to the Finance Committee report prior to today’s debate, and I will be writing to the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee and the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee following this debate.

Turning to the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee report, I acknowledge the full range of recommendations made, and I am pleased to read that recommendation 1 asks the Senedd to agree the general principles of the Bill. I am also pleased that a clear majority of the committee support the provisions to prohibit the use of snares. This is an important step forward for animal welfare here in Wales, and one reflected in our programme for government commitments. A number of important recommendations have been made by the committee, the majority of which, I am pleased to say, are expected to be accepted or accepted in principle.

I will also write to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee to provide considered responses to its recommendations. The Finance Committee was broadly content with the financial implications of the Bill, and my response to the committee ahead of this debate, in line with the committee’s recommendation 1, recognises my acceptance of the majority of recommendations. In addition to the amendments agreed with Plaid Cymru, I am expecting to lay a small number of further Government amendments to the Bill at the amending stage.

In conclusion, Llywydd, this is an ambitious and transformational piece of legislation that reforms decades of EU farming support. There can be no mistaking the importance of this moment. This Bill will breathe new life into the agricultural sector here in Wales, as it is the first Welsh agricultural Bill, the first time that the Welsh Government has had the opportunity to bring agricultural legislation of this nature before the Senedd, and the first time that our farmers, our communities and our businesses have been able to decide their own futures. This agricultural Bill has given a voice to the Welsh countryside and all those who work within it. I urge Members to agree the general principles and the financial resolution of the Bill. Diolch.

I call now on the Chair of the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee—Paul Davies

Diolch, Llywydd. This Bill and this debate mark a very important moment for Welsh agriculture, the environment and, indeed, the Welsh economy. Following the UK’s exit from the European Union, it’s the first time that the Senedd is considering legislation for a wholly made-in-Wales agricultural policy. The policy framework set out in this Bill is intended to last for many years to come. Therefore, the stakes are very high, and it is vital to get it right. In my view, this piece of legislation is probably the most important piece of legislation since the start of devolution, and that’s why it’s important to get this right, as it will shape agriculture and our environment for decades to come.

The Bill, as the Minister said, signals a new policy approach for sustainable land management, and it will give Welsh Ministers new powers to support farmers under a scheme that is developed wholly in Wales, for Wales. The Minister has said that the overarching aim of the Bill is to keep Welsh farmers on the land. As our committee report sets out, the support that they receive under the powers in this Bill must balance a number of different needs: (1) the need to protect and promote sustainable food production and local supply chains; (2) the need to support strong and vibrant rural economies and help our Welsh-speaking rural communities to thrive; and (3) the need to protect our precious Welsh landscapes, natural environment and biodiversity in the face of climate and nature emergencies.

The Bill was referred to our committee for scrutiny as we hold the rural affairs remit. I want to take this opportunity to thank my colleagues on the committee and, indeed, the clerking team for their hard work and support during our work. But it is also important to note that our work was greatly assisted by the active participation of members of the Climate, Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee. We are grateful for their invaluable input, which can be seen in the Record of Proceedings and, indeed ,in this report. We are also, as always, grateful to all the organisations and individuals who have engaged with the committee’s scrutiny work.

Some provisions of this framework Bill will replace clauses in the UK Agriculture Act 2020 that are due to expire under a sunset clause at the end of 2024. With some exceptions, these clauses mirror the powers that Welsh Ministers currently have under that UK Act. However, it should be noted that this Bill is particularly broad in scope, and it introduces some significant new elements. These new elements include prohibiting the use of snares and glue traps in Wales, and the new powers for Natural Resources Wales over forestry felling licences. And so, whilst these provisions could be argued to be agricultural in nature, they could also perhaps have been legislated for and scrutinised separately.

The Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee had 14 weeks to scrutinise the general principles of this Bill. We considered all aspects of the Bill to the best of our ability in the time available. I know that the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee has made some strong recommendations about the Welsh Government’s chosen approach to legislating in the field of agriculture, and so I will not pre-empt anything other Members may say about that, but I would like to highlight some of the policy-related matters that we identify in our report.

The Welsh Government has involved stakeholders in the development of this Bill in recent years, with a number of consultations and a co-design process. So it was initially surprising to us on the committee that there were some fundamental issues on which stakeholders still had quite divergent views. The very definition of 'sustainable land management' has proved to be a sticking point. To the lay reader there is no definition, neither bespoke nor borrowed, on the face of the Bill. The Minister’s view is that the sustainable land management objectives set out in section 1 of the Bill are the definition. And the Committee’s report sets out some strong arguments for how those objectives in section 1, and the list of purposes for support in section 8, could be strengthened. There is also some disquiet about the proposal to allow the definition of ‘agriculture’ to be amended by subordinate legislation, and we have recommended that the Minister also reviews this aspect of the Bill and seeks to allay concerns.

There also appeared to be a lack of clarity and/or a lack of understanding by stakeholders about the Welsh Government’s intentions with some of the provisions in the Bill. In particular this is the case for support for ancillary activities, and how this might benefit the agri-food supply chain. Recommendation 16 of our report asks the Minister to provide more clarity on this. It was also widely expected by stakeholders that national minimum standards would be a feature of this legislation, and there was much disappointment that this was not the case. The committee would therefore like the Minister to clearly set out her intentions for the future regulatory baseline for the sector. We have also asked that the Minister gives further consideration to animal welfare and the role of the farm vet in the new legislative framework.

From our scrutiny work it was clear that further work is needed to address concerns of tenant farmers and those who farm on common land, ensuring that they can fully access the support available under the proposed sustainable farming scheme. The needs of new entrants into the sector must also be fully supported by the Bill. We have welcomed the Minister’s commitment to further work in these areas, as monitoring the effectiveness and impact of the sustainable farming scheme will be vital.

In light of the evidence that the committee received, our report has suggested amendments to the Bill’s reporting provisions, as well as the concerns that were raised with us about data collection provisions. The Bill grants Welsh Ministers powers over marketing standards, and our inquiry raised important questions about post-EU divergence and the role of the common frameworks. In our report we have also included a recommendation about assessing the impact of trade deals on the Welsh agricultural sector.

In closing, Llywydd, I stress again that this is a wide-ranging and highly significant piece of legislation. I therefore invite all Members to consider the range of evidence and recommendations in our report, along with the views of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee and the Finance Committee on the Bill as introduced. As our report notes, with regard to Part 5 of the Bill, a clear majority of the committee supported the provisions to prohibit the use of snares, although there was support from two Members for the Minister to give further consideration to a highly regulated licensing system.

As I said earlier, this legislation will shape the landscape of Welsh agriculture and the environment for decades to come, and so we have to ensure that this piece of legislation is absolutely right. In taking account of the range of evidence presented to us, and our 30 recommendations, we recommend that the Senedd agrees to the general principles of this Agriculture (Wales) Bill and that it now proceeds to the second, amending stage. Diolch, Llywydd.

I now call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to open my contribution this afternoon by thanking the committee members and our clerking team, but also by emphasising that one of the key questions my committee considers is whether a Bill is fit for purpose as a piece of law. As a general rule, we don't comment on the merits of the policy it contains.

The Minister told us that the Bill is a framework Bill, with the aim of being in place for several decades. As a result, the Minister emphasised the need for futureproofing and flexibility. But it is because the Bill is a framework or enabling Bill that our report contains so many recommendations—there are 44 in total. It's a reflection in part of our concern about the amount of power it provides to Welsh Ministers at the expense of this legislature. Our report demonstrates that it isn't just our committee that has concerns about the use of framework Bills—our predecessor committees and long-established committees in the House of Lords express the same concerns.

Of most importance when a legislature is asked to delegate powers to the executive is consideration as to how those powers could be used in the future, rather than how the current Minister intends to use them at the time they are taken. So, it's regardless of words on record and intent of this Minister. If passed, the Bill will delegate broad powers to any future Government in Wales. The powers could be used to develop significant policy on agriculture, with very limited democratic input and decision making by the Senedd as the legislature. That's what this Bill as currently written does; it can be amended. Future Welsh Ministers will be able to avoid detailed scrutiny by the Senedd of what could be substantive and significant policy decisions on agriculture, potentially for, and I repeat it, decades.

We believe that the Welsh Government has had the opportunity to draft a Bill that could have included more detail on its face. The detail would have included the relevant purposes, the principles and the criteria underpinning agricultural policy in Wales that will replace the provisions and powers being returned from the European Union, not least since the decision to leave the EU was taken by the electorate in 2016. In an attempt to improve the Bill, therefore, 11 of our recommendations require more information to be placed on its face, particularly on policy detail and matters relating to the exercise of regulation-making powers. In addition, a further 15 recommendations seek explanations for the approach adopted in the Bill. They genuinely are seeking to improve the Bill.

In the absence of any sunset provision—I draw particular reference to that—to ensure transition to a new system of agricultural support, changes could be made, as it's currently fashioned in this Bill, on an indefinite basis to the existing system, which gives certainty to no-one. We accept that it is this Minister’s stated intention to transition to the sustainable farming scheme and a new system of support. But, as currently drafted, the Bill places no obligation on this or any future Government to actually do so by any certain date. We have therefore recommended that it would be appropriate to include a sunset provision in the Bill to provide that certainty—an end date for transition away from the basic payment scheme and the common agricultural policy. If provision is included to allow an end date to be amended by regulations, such regulations then should be of course subject to the affirmative procedure.

We note that the Welsh Government has not replicated limitations on the exercise of some regulation-making powers—so, for example, under sections 15, 16 and 22 of the Bill—that were included in the UK Agriculture Act 2020. This means that, as it currently stands, the 2020 Act—legislation by the UK Government—provides more control for this Senedd over the exercise of Welsh Ministers' powers than the Bill before us today. So, nine of our recommendations were aimed at addressing this specific issue. We think that these are sensible.

Five of our recommendations relate to the procedures attached to the making of regulations, and a further four recommendations call for amendments to 12 sections in the Bill to include a duty on the Welsh Ministers to consult before making regulations, because this is such a framework Bill. This is important because, in a recent set of, for example, student loans regulations, the Welsh Government did not consult before making the regulations because there was no statutory requirement to do so. It may have been good or bad policy, but there was no duty to consult.

I would like to cover now two brief specific recommendations before closing. We recommended that the Bill should be amended to include a definition of 'sustainable land management'. In the committee's view, it is not appropriate to try and define a term adequately by a set of objectives, which may or may not be achieved and which can be balanced across and traded against each other. It does not provide the certainty needed in good law.

Section 50 of the Bill permits the Welsh Ministers to amend the definitions of agriculture and ancillary activities—definitions that go to the very heart of the Bill. This is an exceptionally broad power that could fundamentally change the nature and the reach of this Bill. So, as well as seeking clarity on why this power is being taken, we recommended that, if the Minister retains section 50, a superaffirmative procedure should apply to the regulation power.

So, just in conclusion, Llywydd, we concluded that the Bill, as currently framed, in this broad framework that it has, doesn't actually provide a sensible and constitutionally appropriate approach to legislation and has some significant shortcomings. But these can be improved in the passage of the Bill, so, in the interests of sound law making, we hope that the Minister, who's offered to write to us in detail on our recommendations, does listen to those concerns, which are sensible recommendations, and can address this positively as the Bill proceeds. Thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Chair of the Finance Committee now, Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Thank you, Llywydd, and I'm pleased to contribute to this debate as Chair of the Finance Committee, and I'm delighted to thank the Minister for giving evidence and the clerking team and Members for their work. I'm sure that the Minister is pleased that we didn't make as many recommendations as some other committees; we made 10 recommendations in total. So, I thank the Minister for providing a response prior to this debate and for accepting nine of our recommendations.

Sadly, as with so many Bills that have been introduced to this Senedd, the lack of information contained in the regulatory impact assessment accompanying this Bill has made it difficult for the committee to assess its total costs.

In particular, we have a significant concern regarding the lack of available financial information relating to the future sustainable land management scheme that will be introduced by this Bill, which is not yet finalised. This is the most significant cost arising from the Bill and assumes that Welsh Government's annual payments to farmers will be £278 million, under the future SLM scheme. However, there seems to be a hole in the Welsh Government's finances on this point. The funding that farmers currently receive through the common agricultural policy is approximately £370 million per annum—almost £100 million more than the cost of the new scheme. The Minister told us that the 'missing' £100 million was the rural development plan funding, which has not been included, as it is not a direct payment to farmers. However, we are not clear what the RDP costs outlined in option 3 of the RIA relate to. We are therefore pleased that the Minister has agreed our recommendation 2 and will provide further details relating to this element when the revised RIA is laid following Stage 2.

We have concerns about the affordability of the new scheme, especially if there is a maximum take-up from all farm businesses. We recommend that the Minister undertakes modelling work to estimate the annual cost of the new scheme, dependent on the different levels of take-up in different farming types. The Minister has agreed in principle, but said that the timescales will not allow additional information to be included in the revised RIA. However, we note that the environmental and economic modelling work being undertaken will inform the design of the final proposed scheme, and we are pleased to hear the commitment to consult on the final scheme at the end of this year.

We are disappointed that the Minister is unable to accept recommendation 6. This recommendation asked for further work to be undertaken to assess the cost to the private sector related to forestry arising as a result of adding conditions to new licences. However, we are encouraged to hear the Minister's response that no additional costs to the private sector are envisaged over and above what they are already. There are also significant IT costs to develop a new system for online applications and contract management of £35.5 million. We are pleased that the Minister's preferred option is to enhance and build on the current system and that she has agreed recommendation 8 to provide further details of the IT development costs in the revised RIA.   

In addition, the cost for farmers completing an online application is estimated to be 50 per cent higher than maintaining the status quo, and this may impede farmers, especially on smaller farms, from applying for the scheme. We are grateful to the Minister for accepting recommendation 9 and her commitment that making the application process user friendly is an important design principle that will be adopted where possible. Approximately £2.8 million of additional costs will be borne by Natural Resources Wales. We are aware that NRW is facing a flat budget for the next financial year, which amounts to a real-terms cut. We asked for clarification on whether additional funding will be made available by the Welsh Government or whether NRW will be expected to absorb these costs into the existing budget. Whilst the Minister has accepted this recommendation, regrettably, the narrative that she provided fails to answer the question.

Llywydd, I am conscious of time, but I would like to raise an important issue relating to the consideration of financial resolution motions. Whilst acknowledging that the Minister has responded prior to today’s debate, this is not standard practice. Usually, responses are issued after the Stage 1 debate, with the financial resolution considered immediately after the Stage 1 motion has been agreed. This process does not allow Members of the Senedd to properly consider the financial implications fully before being asked to authorise spending arising from a Bill. We feel that this also undermines the committee’s efforts and increases the risk of the Senedd passing laws with uncertain financial outcomes.

I have been in correspondence with the First Minister and suggested that, when it is not possible for Ministers to respond prior to the Stage 1 debate, it would be appropriate to take the financial resolution motion at least a week later. I am awaiting a response from the Welsh Government, but I’m sure this Chamber would agree that, given the current pressures on public finances, it is more important than ever that the Welsh Government provides as much clarity as possible and as much assurance as possible before it asks the Senedd to commit resources. Thank you.

As always, I'm very grateful to have the opportunity to contribute in this afternoon's debate. We will be voting in favour of the general principles of this Bill.

As has already been mentioned, this is a landmark piece of legislation for Wales's agricultural community. For the first time ever, Wales is set to benefit from having its first Welsh-born, Welsh-bred agricultural legislation, tailored to the uniqueness of the industry in Wales and its importance to our culture and language. As a Welsh parliamentarian in this Senedd Cymru, this is certainly a principle that I'm incredibly proud of, and now, as Minister for rural affairs, you have more powers than you previously held.

With Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine shining an important spotlight on the significance of food sovereignty, and the pressures being seen by both food consumers and producers, this Bill's passage through this place comes at an important time both domestically and globally. And, to steal a phrase from Bon Jovi, Llywydd, this agriculture Bill is halfway there, so, as we progress to Stage 2, let's get this Bill all the way there.

The need to focus on productivity is important. With sustainable land management the key objective, and the leading role the agricultural community plays in tackling climate change, we must continue to see the production of high-quality Welsh produce and the sustainable use of our land as two sides of the same coin. Through technology and improved farming practices, it's easily possible to be able to get more from less without exploiting the resources available to us. It's vital then that productivity is reflected in this legislation.

So, it's important that we get this legislation right. I welcome the fact that the Government hasn't rushed this agricultural policy; they've taken their time through consultation and discussions with the farming community to get the Bill to where it is today—a long way from where the 'Brexit and our land' consultation had us in 2018. But, with that, our agricultural community needs security. Our farmers need that important ability to be able to plan for the future. And, whilst this draft legislation does that to some degree, I still think it can go further. That ability to plan ahead is not just specific to farm businesses, but in the wider context of the sustainable land management objectives. Economic, social, cultural, environmental—they all need this ability. But, in addition to this, we ought to ensure that all four objectives are displayed and interpreted on one equal footing, removing the possibility of ambiguity or any prioritisation. By ensuring that this is done, we can make certain that all four objectives are given equal and intertwined priority in their implementation, so that no focus can be shifted from one to another.

One such point of contention surrounds the restriction of certain predatory controls. It remains questionable whether the Bill allows the Welsh Government to maintain and enhance the resilience of ecosystems effectively, whilst at the same time removing predatory control—a possibility that there is a contradiction between two parts of the Bill. And so, this is a matter of clarity that I look forward to seeking during Stage 2 of the Bill's progression.

This Bill is ambitious, but with such ambition, we must ensure that there are sufficient checks and balances in place. By obligating the Welsh Government to report back on their key ambitions, we can ensure that Ministers are kept on track and that all objectives within this legislation are being successfully achieved because we cannot afford either of the four objectives to fall below the wayside.

Llywydd, this is an incredibly exciting time for Wales's agricultural community. Yes, there are challenges before us, but I am proud of the work that our farmers have done and continue to do in feeding a nation and protecting our environment. I hope that the final Agriculture (Wales) Bill will echo that pride in our farmers, welcoming the next generation of farmers onto the land. Diolch yn fawr.

The journey to bring us to this part of the journey has been long and, at times, rather tempestuous. From the second that the statement was made that the United Kingdom was to leave the European Union, it was clear that a significant challenge faced the agricultural sector. Now, the journey began with a misstep, as the Government published 'Brexit and our land'. But, from the ashes of that scheme, we learned important lessons about collaboration, listening and joint planning, and this party has been clear in amplifying the voice of the agricultural community in this regard, which has brought us to where we are today.

Now, let us not forget these important principles: everyone needs food, and this food has to be produced by someone, somewhere, in a sustainable way. That is the farmer's role. A farmer produces food so that we don't have to do so, so that we can sit or stand here debating and developing policy. So it was a surprise to see the first draft without any mention made whatsoever of the importance of food production. But now, in collaboration with Plaid Cymru and by listening to farmers' voices, food production is a key output of the Bill, which is to be welcomed.

Ensuring the economic and community benefit of our farmers is also vital. If a piece of legislation on agriculture does not create the framework to safeguard the rural economy, then it's legislation that fails our food producers and fails our rural communities. That's why the agricultural community and us in Plaid Cymru, through Cefin Campbell's laudable work here, have pushed for economic value to be included on the face of the Bill. This is the fruit of years of collaboration and listening to the agricultural community, and collaboration too with the Government to achieve a common aim.

I wish to take a moment to focus on other amendments that have been accepted by the Government as part of the co-operation partnership. The first objective, as well as mentioning food production, now emphasises the importance of resilient agricultural businesses in our communities. This will strengthen the Bill significantly, demonstrating the importance of the long-term viability of the Welsh family farm. In addition to this, three additional purposes have been drafted within section 8 of the Bill, which will help to support our rural communities, improve the resilience of agricultural businesses, and support the Welsh language and our culture. And, of course, we have to welcome and acknowledge the role of the party in ensuring the continuity of the basic payment during this transformative period to come.

But, some questions remain, and as we begin our scrutiny of the Bill, I'm eager for the Government to formulate positive answers or satisfactory solutions to some of the questions and challenges posed by the Bill before us. The sustainable farming scheme has raised a number of questions and we're yet to receive clear answers to them, and we need these answers during the scrutiny period to give confidence to everyone involved in farming and with an interest in nature. For example, 10 per cent of trees. Although the meaning is obvious at first glance, it is unclear as to what this means in practice—10 percent of what parcel of land, and what kinds of trees? By the same token, we need an explanation of the 10 per cent of wetlands.

Farmers have to plan their businesses years in advance, preparing land for cereals or in nurturing and fattening their animals, and they have to do so in the face of a market that is often unstable and can change overnight. Therefore, a three-year budget would offer that stability, while simultaneously securing our food supply. So, I wonder whether the Minister would be willing to give the agricultural sector a three-year settlement. 

We also need detailed scrutiny of the impact of this proposed legislation on tenant farmers, and those who farm common land. We've heard a few words moving us in the right direction in this regard, but we need clarity and further confirmation on this. 

Finally, farmers in Wales are acutely aware of their environmental duties. They see the change in our natural world with their own eyes and experience climate change on a daily basis. They are eager to play their part as we try to reverse the decline in the natural world and limit the increase in global temperatures to 1.5 degrees above pre-industrial levels. So, I look forward to working with the sector and other partners as we scrutinise and finesse this Bill, and we'll be voting in favour of the proposal to enable us to move to Stage 2. Thank you. 

I thank the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee for allowing members of the climate change committee to take part in this really important inquiry in scrutiny of Stage 1 of the Bill. I wanted to talk a little bit more about recommendation 9, which is the need for more clarity on the role of local procurement and local food supply chains, and how they're going to be supported by the Bill.

There's a decent amount of information in the explanatory memorandum about food security, which is a major concern for me. So, I approve of that level of detail, and, clearly, a lot of research has gone into what we mean by food security. So, food security is the ability of the people of Wales to access enough nutritious food to meet their dietary needs for a healthy life. It's not just affected by the availability of food, but also its affordability, quality and safety. Clearly, we have a major food security crisis in Wales, because so many of our population are unable to access healthy food, because they simply can't afford it. Not only that, in many cases, far too many people, regardless of their income, are simply not eating nutritious food because they simply don't understand that processed food is full of adulteration—things that are very, very bad for them. So, I think, highlighting the evidence from the Landworkers' Alliance, who argued that missing from the Bill was, really, some references to how we're going to develop the food system to strengthen our food security, because this Bill is intended to be for the next 20 or 30 years, so, therefore, we really, really do need to get it right. 

Samuel Kurtz mentioned the war in Ukraine, which is one, at the moment, I would regard as quite a temporary upheaval in food security. I think much more significant are the whole issues of climate change and the wholesale movement of populations who are unable to live in areas of the world because they simply can't produce any food. And, so, this is a much more significant issue. Also mentioned in the explanatory memorandum is the role of antimicrobial resistance, which is both for people and animals, and that's a very significant issue too.

So, I think, I would like to see much more detail around how the Bill challenges us in our objectives around sustainable land management to really develop those local food networks that will enable people to have access to properly fresh food, produced in a way that does not undermine the quality of our soil, and ensures that we are not subject to what is going to be a very bumpy ride going forward as we transition away from the climate change emergency. So, I hope that the Minister can provide us with some assurance that, as we take forward the Bill to Stage 2, there will be a good deal more information about how we're going to do that.

Thank you, Minister, for all your work in this regard. We've heard from many how this is really a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reshape agricultural policy in Wales, following our departure from the European Union. The last-minute amendments to the Bill are also welcomed, namely adding some additional detail on ensuring the sustainability of farm businesses. I would just like to raise some areas of focus for me. One of them we've heard about is food production. In my conversations—and I know others have raised this as well—with farmers, their biggest concern is that they are concerned there is no mechanism for measuring food production as a public good. Although food production is highlighted in the Bill as a key public good, there isn't a means in the delivery mechanism, that being the sustainable farming scheme, for farmers being rewarded for that public good. So, what I'd like to ask is if food production has been identified as a public good, especially when our own food security has become of prime importance, which we've heard from others in the Siambr, particularly in relation to the emerging conflict in Ukraine. Could I ask that the Bill does create a mechanism for farmers to be rewarded for it? And food security has to be at the heart of the Bill. I'd be keen to hear more from the Minister about how she intends to ensure that farmers are rewarded.

Another issue I'd like to raise is that of the national minimum standards. It's my view that the sustainable farming scheme needs a robust regulatory baseline put in place before the start of the scheme, without which the scheme may fail to deliver upon its ambitions. So, I was wondering whether, Minister, you could provide us with an assurance in the Siambr today as to whether the national minimum standards will be ready in time for the start of the SFS.

Finally, and we've heard this from the Chair of the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs committee, is tenant farmers being able to access the scheme. There is great concern that tenant farmers, particularly new entrants, will be hampered by potentially not being able to make the necessary changes to lease the land in order to access the scheme, for example adhering to the 10 per cent tree cover. With that in mind, I was wondering whether you would be willing to work with me and others on what assessment has been made to ensure that tenant farmers, particularly new entrants, are afforded some leniency in order to be able to access the scheme. There are real opportunities to increase new entrants, which is what we need in relation to our rural economy, to ensure that we have long-term sustainability and futureproof our farming. I look forward to future work with the Minister and others in the Siambr as well. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I welcome the opportunity to take part in this debate. It is one of the most important pieces of legislation, I think, that this Senedd will scrutinise. It not only shapes the future of Welsh farming, but our natural heritage, economy and culture, and particularly in mid and west Wales, so we need to get it right. I'm pleased to support the ETRA committee's recommendations and agree the general principles and to proceed to Stage 2, but—and there is a 'but'—I do have to make three points, and some of them have been made.

The Bill does establish sustainable land management as the framework, and that's been alluded to, but what does that really mean? If we look at, for example, the intensive poultry units that I've mentioned many, many times, and the real concerns of the Landworkers' Alliance Cymru and Sustainable Food Knighton, who will be here next week, what difference will this make to that proliferation of intensive poultry units, for example? There are 150 there already, housing an estimated 10 million chickens, and I think we ought to have a moratorium until we've looked at the damage that that has done. Jenny Rathbone did mention antimicrobial resistance, and when you're mass-producing things like chicken, then there is a real possibility that that will leach into the population, and we all know that there are worldwide issues with antibiotics for people and their effectiveness. The Wildlife Trusts Wales has warned that life in the River Wye is silently slipping away. So, what will this Bill do to address those environmental concerns, of which I've just given you some examples?

So, the second point is transitional plans for financial support. Given my first point, ironically, it's a bit like the chicken and the egg. Wales Environment Link and others argue that, without a deadline on basic payments, we cannot successfully transition to the sustainability scheme. The farming unions and others, on the other hand, argue that without the stability of the basic payment schemes, we cannot successfully transition to the sustainability scheme. So, which is it? I do appreciate that you'll be consulting on it, but can you reveal your thinking, Minister? Are you considering a gradual tapering, for example, as suggested by the RSPB?

And thirdly, I want to raise the issue of public access. The pandemic did bring to the fore the importance and also limitations of public access to green and blue, in the case of our waterways and spaces. So, I wholly support Wales Environment Link's proposal to strengthen these provisions in the Bill. 'This land is your land', the song goes, but, at the moment, too much of it is inaccessible or off-limits. In respect of the recent High Court judgment on wild camping on Dartmoor, the UK Labour Party said it would pass a right to roam Act. Is that something the Minister has reflected on in the context of developing this Bill to the next stages?

The Minister for rural affairs now to reply to the debate—Lesley Griffiths. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I very much welcome all of the comments that have been made by Members today and the spirit in which they've been made. I've set out today why I believe this Bill is an important step in agricultural reform here in Wales and I've listened really carefully to the views and the recommendations of the three committees and, of course, to other Members as well. 

The Bill does provide the framework on which all future agricultural support will be delivered, and we also have the proposed sustainable farming scheme, which will be the first future support scheme and the main source of future Government support for farmers across Wales. Access to the sustainable farming scheme needs to be available to all eligible farmers in Wales. Members, including Jane Dodds, referred to tenant farmers, and I've said all along that if it's not accessible to tenant farmers, then it won't work. It's really important this scheme works for every farmer on every type of farm across Wales. 

I've implemented a number of working groups with farmers to understand the opportunities that exist, but also to see what barriers are there. So, working groups in relation to tenants, working groups in relation to new entrants, which, again, Jane Dodds mentioned, and working groups on common land to make sure we do have that vibrant farming sector here in Wales. 

To reiterate my opening remarks, I don't have time to go through all the recommendations or to address every Member's questions, but I'll certainly do my best to address many of them. I'll start with Paul Davies, as Chair of the ETRA committee. He asked for further clarity on the scope of support for ancillary activities. I know that's one of your recommendations to me, and I will provide further clarity on the scope of support for ancillary activities within the explanatory memorandum. So, an amendment is not needed. The scope of ancillary activity is linked to agriculture and they are complementary to the activities that are captured under the definition of 'agriculture'. So, whilst 'ancillary activities' is fairly broad, I think it's fair to say, that is to enable Welsh Ministers to be able to respond to future developments in the sector and enable that support to be more inclusive of the supply chain.

Several Members, including Paul Davies, mentioned the national minimum standards. They already exist in law, and what I've asked officials to do is to explore whether new legislation—whether that be primary or secondary legislation—is required to stabilise the existing regulatory baseline, for example, and the regulations.

Huw Irranca-Davies—again, I will be responding to the LJC committee—you talked about the sunset clause that is in the UK Agriculture Act, which will obviously end in 2025. I've previously stated that we will not sunset BPS. I know you listened to—sorry, Paul Davies's committee, I know, listened to—quite a good evidence session, I thought, from stakeholders on transition plans and a sunset provision for the Bill. I think it's fair to say that the farming unions and environmental organisations agreed there shouldn't be a cliff edge in financial support, and I've always said that, but there were varying views on the need to legislate for a transition period or for a sunset period, so—. I notice that you don't advocate for sunset provision. I think further detail on how, the transition to the new system of agricultural support, will form, of course, part of the final sustainable farming scheme consultation.

Huw Irranca-Davies also talked about the definition of sustainable land management. That's already defined in the Bill by the four objectives and the sustainable land management duty. The SLM objectives and duty have been informed by the UN definition, developed in the specific legislative context in Wales, obviously, of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and the Environment (Wales) Act 2016. Because we've already got that legislation, it's been quite easy to hook in and to have that consistency. But also we've had extensive stakeholder consultation and engagement around that also—

Will the Minister give way on that? I don't want to push this point but, curiously, actually, it's quite reassuring to hear the words on record and to hear the words in front of committees, but that, you recognise, is not quite the same as having on the face of the Bill not that this is informed by, but this is that definition or a version of it. I just want to make that point, because there is a clear difference in law.

I note what you say and defining sustainable land management by reference to the objectives and the duty does provide certainty I think in shaping possible action to the specific context of land management within Wales.

Huw also mentioned around it being a broad, framework Bill, and, again, we can point to the affirmative procedure for the scrutiny of the Senedd when regulations are made in order to allay any fears about the breadth of the framework.

Peredur talked about funding, of course, and it's really difficult when you don't know what your funding is going to be, and the focus of the future support cost-benefit analysis within the RIA was on the costs and benefits of providing revenue support directly to farmers. And as you said, under the current system, the two largest contributors are the basic payment scheme and Glastir, and that amounts to the £278 million that you referred to per year. I do accept the recommendation to add further information relating to the RDP elements not included in the RIA for information, following Stage 2.

Around NRW, the costs that we've attributed to NRW are indicative estimates and not predictions. Officials are currently working with NRW to determine what, if any, future downstream costs may be realised as a result of the SLM schemes. And as we begin to transition, I will work to ensure that any downstream costs resulting from the implementation of this legislation are fully considered.

Samuel Kurtz, I was very pleased to hear you talking about and recognising the complementary objectives of supporting our farmers to produce food sustainably. And of course, they are absolutely in a position—they have so many opportunities—to help address the climate and nature emergencies. And like other Members—Jane Dodds, and obviously, Mabon ap Gwynfor and Cefin Campbell and yourself and obviously my own group—I look forward to challenge at Stage 2 and to continuing to work with you all to make this the very best piece of legislation.

Mabon ap Gwynfor queried about the 10 per cent on trees and what that means. That's being looked at as part of the co-design for the sustainable farming scheme. It will be going out to consultation again, and what we're trying to do is have that conversation with farmers and try to explore how they can plant trees so that they become an asset to food production—so, for instance, shelter belts or biosecurity barriers. I'm not quite sure the start was tempestuous; I'm not sure that was 'Brexit and our land' really or that it was a misstep. It was absolutely the first consultation and, yes, things have changed, but what's the point in having consultation if you don't listen and you don't make changes? And I do think that everybody has absolutely contributed along that very long journey that you pointed out.

I think it was you who asked about the hierarchy. Yes, it was. There is no hierarchy—it's always been the intention that the SLM objectives would be considered together. They're not expected—. There's no hierarchy because what they are expected to be is complementary, and we don't intend to alter section 2. I think the wording 'best achieves' is already present in the SLM duty in that context, and there's a strenuous duty on Welsh Ministers to maximise their contribution.

Jenny Rathbone talked about food security, and the biggest challenge to our food security is the climate emergency, so by investing in our soils and our habitats and our livestock—and of course in our farmers' skills—for me, that's an investment in protecting food production.

And Joyce Watson referred to AMR—I'm actually making an oral statement on AMR and the use of that, and I think that is a really important point.

So, I am committed to writing to committees, Llywydd, with a response on each of the recommendations and the issues raised by various Members today pertaining to the committee reports, so I do ask that Members approve the motion and agree the general principles and financial resolution of the Agriculture (Wales) Bill. Diolch.

The proposal therefore is to agree the motion under item 5. Does any Member object? There are no objections. And therefore the motion under item 5 is agreed.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The next question is that the financial resolution and the motion under item 6 be agreed. Does any Member object? No, there are no objections. And therefore that motion under item 6 is also agreed.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.