Debate continued from 22 March.

The following motion was moved on 22 March:

Motion NDM6267 David Rees

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Notes the report of the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee on its Inquiry into the implications for Wales of leaving the European Union, which was laid in the Table Office on 27 January 2017.

So, we now move on to the debate on the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee’s report on the implications for Wales of leaving the European Union, which is resumed from 22 March. David Rees opened the debate last week, and I call on David Rees again, just briefly, before calling other Members in this debate. David.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. And, as we are all aware of the reasons why it was suspended last week, can we offer our condolences to the families of those killed, best wishes to those injured and their families, and thanks to the security and emergency services for their speedy and efficient actions. Our thoughts are with them all.

Dirprwy Lywydd, wythnos diwethaf agorais i ddadl ar adroddiad cyntaf y pwyllgor ar uchafbwyntiau gwaith y pwyllgor a’r argymhellion y gwnaethom ni i’r Llywodraeth. Fe fydd Aelodau yn hapus o glywed fy mod i ddim yn bwriadu ailadrodd yr araith o wythnos diwethaf; mae ar gael ar Senedd.tv i’r rhai a gollodd hi. Ond rwyf am atgoffa Aelodau bod yr adroddiad yn adlewyrchu dau agwedd pwysig: (1) cymhlethdod y materion y mae’n rhaid eu hystyried, a (2), gweithrediadau Llywodraeth Cymru. Gwnes i hefyd bwysleisio bod y topig yma yn un sy’n newid yn ddyddiol ac fe fydd y pwyllgor yn ffocysu ar sicrhau ein bod ni’n gyfoes a bod ein gwaith wastad yn gyfoes.

Mae Brexit yn datblygu yn fuan, ac ers wythnos diwethaf yr ydym ni yn awr yn gwybod y bydd Papur Gwyn ar y ‘great repeal Bill’ yn cael ei gyhoeddi ar ddydd Iau. Yn dilyn cyflwyniad y llythyr yfory i’r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd i ddechrau’r broses erthygl 50, mae’n hanfodol bod llais Cymru yn cael ei glywed a’i gwrando arno. Tra, yn amlwg, mae hwn yn bennaf er lles Cymru, rwyf yn credu y bydd hwn hefyd er lles y Deyrnas Unedig hefyd.

Dirprwy Lywydd, rwyf am ddiolch i Simon Thomas am gyfraniad wythnos diwethaf ac rwyf yn edrych ymlaen at glywed mwy o Aelodau eraill y prynhawn yma.

Thank you very much. Suzy Davies.

Sorry, I didn’t realise you were calling me first. Thank you very much anyway, Dirprwy Lywydd. As Members may remember, it was actually Mark Isherwood who was making his contribution last week. I’m not Mark Isherwood, and even though he’s kindly given me his speech from last week, I have made one or two alterations so that it’s a bit more me than him today. So, any errors are entirely mine, okay.

Personally, I see this report as the first in a series that I hope will inform and scrutinise the actions of Welsh Government as we navigate these rather choppy waters of Brexit. Again, personally, I think it would have served Welsh Government well to have waited for this report to be published before publishing its own White Paper—it was only a matter of a few days—so it could have referenced a genuinely cross-party document reaching cross-party conclusions, especially as the majority of the recommendations were actually accepted in full. I think that might have just armed slightly better the First Minister, and indeed the finance Cabinet Secretary, in those opening conversations with the UK Government regarding our joint negotiating position, rather than a document drawn up by just two parties.

Will the Member give way on that point?

Have I got time? Yes. Okay, then. Thank you.

I just wanted to make the point that the report from the cross-party committee makes reference to the Welsh Government’s own White Paper, which, yes, was agreed with Plaid Cymru. But it makes reference to it, it gives evidence to it, and surely we don’t have time to wait always for the next report; we have to get our negotiating position in there early.

I take your point completely, but this is actually the Parliament rather than the Government and I’d like this Parliament at the forefront, if you like, in helping inform Government to reach a negotiating—[Interruption.]—inform the Government reaching a negotiating position. I think my point is quite fair, actually, because, of course, although the White Paper calls for full and unfettered access to the UK single market, and although EU rules make that impossible after border control is restored to the UK, that’s not inconsistent with the UK Government’s desire for a free trade deal without membership. Although the White Paper identifies the risk of a power grab from the UK Government, the UK Government’s own White Paper states that we have

‘already committed that no decisions currently taken by the devolved administrations will be removed from them’, and we will use the opportunity of bringing decision making back here to make sure that more decisions are devolved. So, why I’m raising this is because hares are already running, and when I think we should be focusing on clear and present risks and opportunities rather than those that are more unlikely. We already seem to be calling into question how influential the Celtic nations are in the preparation of a negotiating position, and it would be easy, I think, to crank up the rhetoric on who’s doing what and saying what in a way that doesn’t help create confidence or convey a sense of unity, which will be needed to bring weight to a negotiating position.

So, I’m personally just not inclined to accept the First Minister's take on this, which is why recommendations 1 and 4 are important for us all, because I would like us to see a real drill down on those clear and present dangers. Let's see all the evidence to assess the strength of the Welsh Government’s position to help other voices make the case for it, including, but beyond, politicians. That soft diplomacy in non-intergovernmental relationships—you know, there's a series of them, not least with other advocates from within the EU and I think if you help us help them, that’ll strengthen the UK's negotiating position and the role of the Welsh voice within that. I'd like to see those sort of EU countries help build momentum for visibility for Welsh priorities and so it’s unclear to me why Welsh Government only accepts recommendation 1 in principle, i.e. that it publishes all the evidence on which it bases its position.

Now, similarly, I'm not quite sure what the Government's reticence to accept recommendation 4 in full was—namely providing a register of risks across all areas where Brexit will impact upon its activity. In its response, the Welsh Government states that actually it’s bringing forward a fresh risk assessment after the triggering of article 50. I suppose what I would have liked to have heard in the response is what Welsh Government might like our committee to do to help it identify emerging risks as well as emerging opportunities, of course, as became clear in our conference yesterday.

As the report states, several areas of policy might benefit from an agreed UK-wide approach or framework: for example, agricultural and marine and environment policies, and possibly—possibly—regional development policy to a degree as well. The head of Birmingham Law School told the committee that the process

‘does provide an opportunity to think about things in a different way’,

And, as NFU Cymru said this week:

‘While Brexit presents significant challenges, it also presents opportunities, and we need to ensure we take this opportunity to craft and develop an agricultural policy framework that supports productive, progressive and profitable farming and delivers jobs, growth and investment to Wales.’

So, finally, referencing back to where I started, regardless of my own personal starting position about Wales’s influence, I think we need to accept that the European advisory group—it is kind of bizarre when 11 of the 21 members are political associations but only one represents business, and I'd be grateful if, when considering where Wales stands in its negotiating position from now on, voices from all sectors are considered. It's not just about trade; it's about social, community cohesion as well. Thank you.

May I first of all thank the committee Chair for leading our discussions within the committee? And also, on the quality of his Welsh language contribution, he's kept the quality of his Welsh very quiet since I've been here, so congratulations to you on that.

Nawr, yr hyn sy'n ddiddorol am yr adroddiad hwn yw ei fod wedi’i ddrafftio yn erbyn cefndir a oedd yn newid yn gyson; roedd yn symud yn gyson. Felly, o'r drafft cyntaf i'r drafft terfynol gwelsom Lywodraeth y DU yn amlinellu ei strategaeth a gwelsom gyhoeddi Papur Gwyn Llywodraeth Cymru. Felly, roedd rhaid i lawer o ailddrafftio cyflym iawn ddigwydd. Pan fo cymaint i'w ddweud am Brexit, yr hyn sy'n amlwg yw bod pwysau llethol y dystiolaeth yn awgrymu y byddai gadael marchnad sengl yr UE yn cael effaith ddinistriol ar ein heconomi. Mae hynny oherwydd ein bod yn dibynnu mwy ar allforion ac, wrth gwrs, ar y taliadau hyn yr ydym yn eu cael o gronfeydd amaethyddol a strwythurol. Nawr, mae hwnnw'n bwynt sy'n cael ei wneud yn glir iawn yn yr adroddiad. Mae'n bwynt a bwysleisiwyd eto yn yr adroddiad Demos a gyhoeddwyd ddoe.

Ac, wrth gwrs, yn ychwanegol at hynny, caiff cyfansoddiad mewnol y DU ei brofi o ddifrif yng ngoleuni Brexit, gan nad yw'r Deyrnas Unedig a ymunodd â'r EEC yn 1973 yr un DU â’r un a fydd yn gadael yr UE yn 2019. Mae datganoli wedi digwydd yma yn y cyfamser. A bellach, yn ôl y gyfraith, mae gennym lu o gyfrifoldebau yng Nghymru am lawer o wahanol bynciau, sydd hyd yn hyn wedi cael eu rheoli o fewn fframwaith yr UE. Nawr, yn ôl y gyfraith rwy’n glir mai’r Cynulliad fydd yn gyfrifol am amaethyddiaeth eto pan fyddwn yn gadael yr UE, ond, a dweud y gwir, os nad yw Llywodraeth y DU yn rhoi'r arian inni, bydd hwnnw’n bŵer eithaf diwerth.

Nawr, rwy’n mynd i gyfyngu fy hun i ddau bwynt byr a ddaeth allan o'r adroddiad a oedd yn eithaf diddorol imi. Yn gyntaf oll, cyfraith amgylcheddol: yr hyn yr ydym yn ei wybod yw nad yw llygredd yn parchu ffiniau ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n un o lwyddiannau mawr yr UE. Dyna’r fframwaith ar gyfer yr amgylchedd y mae angen i aelod-wladwriaethau weithredu oddi mewn iddo. Y ffaith yw, yn y gorffennol, bod Llys Cyfiawnder Ewrop wedi bod yn rym hynod bwerus i sicrhau cydymffurfiad â deddfau amgylcheddol. Dewch inni beidio ag anghofio y bydd sawl agwedd ar gyfraith amgylcheddol yn dychwelyd i Gymru ar ôl Brexit. Y ffaith yw, o fewn yr UE, bod sefydliadau'r UE yn cynnig mecanwaith rhad ar gyfer gwneud iawn, ac ni fydd hwnnw yno mwyach wedi inni adael yr UE. Yn y dyfodol, bydd yn rhaid i unigolion a sefydliadau preifat ddibynnu ar brosesau adolygu barnwrol drud y DU a bydd rhaid iddynt dalu am yr achosion hynny eu hunain. Rwy'n credu mai cam yn ôl i’r sefyllfa amgylcheddol yn y wlad hon yw hynny. Efallai hefyd na fydd dim cyfleuster i herio'r DU, na hyd yn oed Lywodraeth Cymru, os ydynt yn methu â gorfodi'r safonau a ddisgwylir. Dyna dwll enfawr nad oes neb bron wedi ei ystyried eto ynglŷn â’r ddadl hon am Brexit.

Yr ail bwynt yr hoffwn ganolbwyntio arno yw iechyd. Yng Nghymru, gallwn ymfalchïo mewn diwydiant fferyllol iach iawn, ond mae rhan o'r llwyddiant hwnnw oherwydd ein bod yn gweithio o fewn fframwaith sengl yr UE, sy'n caniatáu i feddyginiaethau newydd gael eu dwyn i mewn yn gyflym i’r farchnad. Yn y dyfodol, mae'n bosibl y bydd yn rhaid inni wneud cais am awdurdodi ym mhob aelod-wladwriaeth unigol. Nid oes gennym farchnad sengl i’r DU ar gyfer hyn ychwaith. Felly, bydd angen inni benderfynu a oes eisiau un arnom. Ar gyfer treialon clefydau mwy prin, mae angen inni allu recriwtio o gronfa fawr o gleifion ar draws yr UE, a gallai hynny newid yn y dyfodol. Felly, rydym yn gobeithio y gellir cysoni deddfwriaeth ar y mater hwn ar draws aelod-wladwriaethau ar ôl Brexit.

Rydym yn gwybod y caiff y gwn cychwyn ei danio yr wythnos hon ar un o'r tasgau negodi mwyaf cymhleth y mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi ymgymryd â hwy erioed, dan arweiniad tîm o weision sifil heb ddim profiad negodi braidd. Mae Brexit yn digwydd, ond rwy’n dal i ofni bod y cyhoedd ym Mhrydain wedi agor blwch Pandora ar adeg pan nad ydym erioed wedi gweld cythrwfl gwleidyddol mor eithafol yn y byd â’r hyn sy’n bodoli ar hyn o bryd.

HM Treasury has guaranteed to underwrite all European structural and investment fund projects approved or due to be approved during the ordinary course of business before the UK exits the EU. This guarantee also covers the common agricultural policy, the European territorial corporation programmes, including the Ireland-Wales programme, and the funding awards under the EU’s directly managed programmes, including Horizon 2020. There you have it. The Government’s own response to recommendation 5 of this report: a categorical statement that there will be no change to funding until 2020.

What happens after that?

I think we will carry on. If you’d like to make an interjection, by all means, Eluned, you can.

No, you carry on with your speech and I’ll direct people for interventions.

But perhaps we had better put the European funding into perspective. Again, in a response to this report, the Government states that we get just £370 million per annum across all EU funding arrangements. This pales into insignificance when compared to UK funding, even under the flawed Barnett formula, which sees Wales benefit to the sum of over £14 billion per year. This means that the UK Government only has to increase its allowance to Wales by just 2.6 per cent to sustain the whole of the European funding, or, put another way, 0.01 per cent of UK GDP, or, put another way, 2.7 per cent of UK net payment into the EU every year. I think we can safely predict that Wales will not miss out on one penny piece of the equivalent so-called EU funding. And shall we get a good Brexit? Absolutely, unless the remoaners keep undermining the massively strong position the UK has going into the Brexit negotiations.

Will you take an intervention?

It seems as if they are willing things to go wrong, even if it means a disaster for the working classes—

Are you taking an intervention from Eluned Morgan?

Yes.

I just wondered if you would also commit the Government that you’re not a part of—you committed to this during the course of the referendum campaign—to pay £350 million a week towards the NHS as well.

Of course, and more. [Interruption.] And more. [Interruption.]

You can almost hear them saying, ‘Serve them right for daring to vote against we, the intellectual elite.’ Don’t they understand that it’s we who know what’s best for them? Or, as one of them said,

‘Why should the pond life that dragged itself from the estates to the ballot box be allowed to ruin everything for the rest of us?’

Left-wing elitists, showing—

Member of the Senedd:

Who said that?

It’s quoted in ‘The Times’ today, Sir.

It’s showing utter contempt for the British working classes. But, of course, what they don’t understand is that the British people did understand what they were voting for, and that’s precisely why they voted Brexit. It is time this Chamber took a positive stance on the UK’s exit from the European superstate. Every single prediction of impending doom by those in the establishment committed to our remaining in the EU has proved to be wrong. And not just wrong, but substantially wrong. I look forward to the time in the near future when I, and my UKIP colleagues, and all other leavers, will be able to say ‘We told you so.’

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government, Mark Drakeford.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I thank the External Affairs and Additional Legislation Committee for their report? It is the result of a great deal of hard work, experience and extensive evidence gathering. I was very grateful to have the opportunity to give evidence to the committee, and I know that the First Minister was too.

Mae nifer o heriau yn ein hwynebu ni ar y foment, fel dywedodd Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, David Rees, pan gyfeiriodd e at gymhlethdod y pethau sy’n ein wynebu ni, a’r ffaith hefyd bod pethau yn newid yn ddyddiol. Rydym yn gallu gweld hynny jest wrth edrych ar bethau sydd wedi newid rhwng yr adroddiad a ni yn siarad heddiw.

Between the report being drafted and published on 27 January, the Welsh Government, along with Plaid Cymru, published our White Paper, ‘Securing Wales’ Future’, and the weeks that have followed have been equally eventful: the publication of the UK Government’s White Paper; the passage a couple of weeks ago of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill; Scottish developments in relation to a second independence referendum; a confirmed date for the invocation of article 50 tomorrow; and a promised White Paper on the great repeal Bill on Thursday of this week. This very fast pace of change means that it is essential that we are able to remain agile and able to adapt swiftly to new situations and challenges as they arise. We’ve certainly attempted to do that over the autumn and into this year, by contributing constructively to the Joint Ministerial Committee meetings, and through a series of bilateral meetings that have been held with UK Ministers. And there are some signs, Dirprwy Lywydd, that we are having a genuine impact on the development of the UK negotiating position. We believe they’ve moved towards our position in relation to our clear and consistent call for full and unfettered access to the single market, and in our emphasis on the importance of a smooth transition.

There are, nonetheless, areas that remain of considerable concern. Last week, Simon Thomas referred to the ongoing debate over repatriation. Eluned Morgan this afternoon referred to that as powers reverting to Wales, and while Suzy Davies took a more optimistic view of this, I want to put the Welsh Government’s position on the record absolutely clearly again this afternoon. Powers that have been devolved to the National Assembly for Wales have never left us. We have chosen to exercise those powers through our participation at the European level. When that level is no longer there, the powers will still be here. And if the UK Government wishes to do anything different, it will have to act to take those powers away from us, and that would be absolutely unacceptable.

In its report, the committee identifies a series of issues that are of significant importance to Wales, and there is much alignment between the report and the White Paper shared between Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Government on the vital importance of trade, environment, agriculture, marine and fisheries, and European structural and investment funds in particular. There are six recommendations in the report for the Welsh Government to consider, and the First Minister responded formally and positively to the committee on 10 March.

The first recommendation was that we should publish all the evidence on which the Welsh Government’s position in relation to Brexit is based. And we go a long way to doing that in the White Paper, where there are substantial annexes, which set out the evidence base that we have drawn on in relation to sectoral analysis, macroeconomic forecasting and EU migration in Wales. We’ve certainly gone much further than the UK Government has in publishing evidence, and we will continue to publish economic and other analyses in the future. The reason why we accept the recommendation in principle is simply that there is some advice that comes to Government—legal advice, privileged advice that comes from other Governments on provisions that they are developing, and so on—which we’re unable to put into the public domain. But information that we have that is capable of being published we are very keen to add to the debate, in the way that Suzy Davies suggested.

Recommendations 2 and 3 refer to administrative changes in the role of the Brussels office and the way in which the Welsh Government has acted to make sure that we are able to respond to the challenges that lie ahead. And, in this regard, I think we can show that we reacted quickly to the outcome of the referendum in establishing a dedicated European transition team, which leads the development of strategic policy and co-ordinates work across the organisation. That new team works closely with the existing team in our Brussels office, who help us on transition matters, as well as conducting ongoing EU business.

I’ve already referred to the fast pace with which things are changing in relation to Brexit, and it is very important for us to be able to remain agile as an organisation. We will, therefore, be keeping the use of our resources under review, including the role of the team in Brussels, so that we can maximise our influence and secure the best outcomes for Wales. And, in particular, we will need to reassess the situation when we gain greater clarity about the role that the Welsh Government can play in the negotiations that lie ahead, something that we have been pushing the UK Government to engage with us on for many weeks and months.

Recommendation 4—a register of risks. The only reason why we accept this simply in principle is because we are undertaking a fresh risk assessment exercise, as we move into the next phase of the work, after the triggering of article 50 and the start of negotiations with EU partners. We will share information on risks and mitigation measures once this exercise is completed, in line with the views of the committee, and I hope that that will inform some of the future work that the committee will wish to undertake.

The fifth recommendation in the report asks the Welsh Government to take steps to ensure maximum EU funding is secured and utilised. Well, we’ve heard a number of contributions on that this afternoon. The Welsh Government lies far more at the sceptical end of the debate. We say that it is absolutely essential that those people who made promises to the people of Wales, on which people cast their votes in the referendum, show us that the guarantees that they offered will be delivered, and will be delivered in full. And I’ve said that I recognise the steps that the Chancellor of the Exchequer took to provide certainty in relation to funding up to 2020. Those were helpful guarantees; they have given some confidence to our partners in the use of European funding. But they now need to move beyond that. Under the current round of European funding, had we continued, Wales would have continued to benefit from the current round not to 2020, but to 2023. There are a series of programmes that we would have gone on being able to participate in well beyond 2023. Those are the guarantees that we need from the UK Government now, and I’m afraid they will not be as easily secured as some Members of the Assembly have wished to suggest this afternoon.

Recommendation 6 asks us to press the UK for direct involvement in negotiations. The First Minister has made it clear to the Prime Minister and other UK Ministers on a series of occasions now that we must be fully involved. This is particularly vital in the areas of our devolved responsibility, where we say plainly to the UK Government, ‘We must be at the table when those negotiations are being carried out, in order to ensure that the interests of Wales are protected.’ Simon Thomas referred last week to the possible development of a Council of Ministers model in the future, and we have put those ideas on the table as well.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we remain committed to seeking common ground, and to working constructively with all partners as we approach the next phase of our exit from the European union. With the UK Government due to invoke article 50 tomorrow, we look forward to further work of the committee and with the committee to aid the development of our approach to getting the best possible outcome for Wales.

Thank you very much. I call on David Rees to reply to the debate.

I thank all the Members who have contributed to the debate, and to the Cabinet Secretary for his response.

Dirprwy Lywydd, yr wythnos diwethaf roedd Simon Thomas yn canolbwyntio ar gyllid a phwerau, ac yn tynnu sylw at bryderon ailwladoli a goblygiadau hynny, os cânt eu hailwladoli, na chawn yr arian i fynd gyda hynny. Ac rwy’n credu bod honno'n elfen hollbwysig, a bod angen inni wneud yn siŵr, os ydym yn mynd i allu symud ymlaen, bod yn rhaid cael yr adnoddau a'r pwerau i wneud hynny sy'n dod yn ôl o Frwsel.

Mae Suzy a Mark—rwy’n eich rhoi gyda’ch gilydd—wedi tynnu sylw at y pryderon, yn amlwg, o ran amseru papur Llywodraeth Cymru. Rwy’n credu mai'r peth pwysig y maent wedi tynnu sylw ato oedd bod angen inni archwilio llwybrau amgen weithiau, bod dewisiadau amgen hefyd ac na allwn anwybyddu'r opsiynau hynny, a’i bod yn bwysig cymryd y rheini, fel y dangosodd uwch aelodau Prifysgolion Cymru a ddaeth i mewn. Mae angen inni edrych ar bethau o'r newydd.

Soniodd Eluned am rywbeth efallai nad ydym yn aml yn siarad amdano o ran Brexit, sef iechyd a meddyginiaethau, oherwydd, unwaith eto, mae yna elfennau o fewn yr UE yr ydym weithiau'n anghofio amdanynt. Rydym yn aml yn sôn am amaethyddiaeth a'r amgylchedd, gan mai rheini yw’r rhai yr ydym yn ymdrin â nhw fel arfer, ond mae rhai agweddau pwysig sy’n dal i ddigwydd ar lefel yr UE sy'n effeithio arnom ni, ac mae hynny'n beth pwysig na allwn ei anwybyddu yn y misoedd sydd o’n blaenau. Ac, yn bwysig iawn, mae colli hawl dinasyddion i gael iawnadal mewn ardaloedd penodol, nid mewn meysydd amgylcheddol yn unig, ond mewn agweddau eraill hefyd, a cholli'r hawl honno i gael iawndal, a'r costau y gallai fod yn rhaid inni eu codi, a allai ei wneud yn amhosibl i lawer iawn o bobl.

David Rowlands—beth allaf ei ddweud am ei gyfraniad? Byddaf yn gadarnhaol. Mae'n gywir—a dywedais hyn yr wythnos diwethaf—y dylem fod yn unedig wrth gymryd safiad cadarnhaol wrth inni symud ymlaen, gan ein bod yn awyddus i gael y cyfleoedd gorau a allwn i Gymru. Ond mae honni bod cyllid yr UE yn ddi-nod, yn fy marn i, yn erchyll. Dewch i fy etholaeth i weld sut mae’r arian hwnnw’n gwneud gwahaniaeth i fy nghymunedau i, oherwydd nid yw Llywodraeth y DU yn ein hariannu ni. Mae mor syml â hynny. Ac mae sôn am gynnydd 2.6 y cant gan Lywodraeth y DU i dalu amdano—rydym yn gweld toriadau gan Lywodraeth y DU, nid codiadau, felly rwy’n meddwl mai breuddwyd gwrach yw’r uchelgais hwn o gael arian. Yn anffodus, efallai fod hynny’n adlewyrchu holl feddyliau UKIP am yr agenda hon.

Nawr, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, rwy’n croesawu eich ymatebion ac rwyf hefyd yn gobeithio eich bod—

David J. Rowlands rose—

Very briefly. I haven’t got much time.

The reason that we’re having this funding is that Wales is still seen as a very poor country in Europe after 17 years of a Labour Government in Wales.

Well, I’m sorry that he doesn’t understand the economic aspects and the benefits it gives us, but there we are—perhaps that’s UKIP.

Mark Drakeford highlighted the issues of the bilateral discussions, and the importance of the Welsh voice in those discussions is critical. That’s why we raised it, Cabinet Secretary, and that’s why I’m very glad to hear that you still believe that the role of Welsh Government being at the table is crucial. And yes, you’re right, there are challenges ahead of us, both up to 2020 and beyond 2020, because programmes will continue beyond that time. We are in a situation where this topic is rapidly evolving. We are now, tomorrow, going to get an announcement, and Thursday we’ll get another announcement on something that relates to us—a great repeal Bill, or perhaps several great repeal Bills, who knows? But it is something we’ve got to keep on top of, and I can assure you that we will.

Dirprwy Lywydd, in closing this debate I want to restate the important role the committee will play in the exit process as it formally begins tomorrow. Throughout the process, we aim to develop and sustain constructive engagement with Welsh stakeholders and the public, and only yesterday we held a conference—possibly the first in Wales, on Brexit—in which we sought to engage further with stakeholders, including young people, and I’d like to thank the students at Coleg Gwent and King Henry VIII School in Abergavenny for their attendance and involvement with this. Such future engagements will be important to us as we both gather further evidence and also as we hold a wider debate with the Welsh people on the issues we identify. We will do everything we can to understand the Welsh interests and to protect them during the exit process and the arrangements that will follow that—and I’m very pleased that the Cabinet Secretary has highlighted, once again, the importance of the transitional period that will need to be in place, because we all know two years is not going to be enough. In doing so, though, we will be holding the Welsh Government to account for its actions and aim to support the Assembly as it approaches significant legislative tasks that lie ahead of it.

The report we have debated marks a significant step in the Assembly’s consideration of Brexit. I look forward to speaking to many reports in the future from the committee, as it continues to protect the interests of Wales as we leave the European Union and prepare for our future outside it.

Thank you very much. The proposal is to note the committee’s report. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The next item on our agenda has been withdrawn, so we move on. Before we move to the Stage 3 debate on the Land Transaction Tax and Anti-avoidance of Devolved Taxes (Wales) Bill, I will suspend the proceedings for 10 minutes. The bell will be rung five minutes before we reconvene, but I would urge all Members to return to the Chamber promptly, please. Therefore, we now stand adjourned.

Plenary was suspended at 15:47.

The Assembly reconvened at 15:57, with the Presiding Officer in the Chair.