Item 3 on this afternoon's agenda is a statement by the Minister for the Environment on designated landscapes and I call on the Minister for the Environment, Hannah Blythyn.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Back in June 2017, this Assembly debated the role of areas of outstanding natural beauty and national parks, when Members spoke with passion about what these landscapes mean to them and to their constituents. We agreed unanimously that our designated landscapes should play their part in the sustainable management of natural resources to protect nature and support vibrant rural communities. 

During both that debate and preceding reviews, the future protection of these areas under this Government has been called into question. Today, I confirm unequivocally that all the existing designated landscapes will be retained and their purpose of conserving and enhancing natural beauty will not be weakened. 

I welcome the thorough and thought-provoking reviews and reports of Professor Marsden and his panel and Lord Elis-Thomas and the Future Landscapes working group. On behalf of both myself and my predecessors, I wish to place on record today my thanks to them and all stakeholders for their significant time and efforts.

Designated landscapes have been in a state of review since a draft policy statement was consulted on in 2013. Today I want to begin answering some of the key questions on the Government’s position and to give this Assembly the opportunity to gain a sense of my priorities. In the coming months, I intend to publish a policy statement that will bring the review process to a close.

Withdrawal from the European Union brings considerable uncertainty, but with it comes the opportunity to improve our land management and the resilience of our landscapes. It changes the context for our designated landscapes and how we must now interpret the findings of these past reviews.

The Cabinet Secretary for Energy, Planning and Rural Affairs has set out the Welsh Government’s principles for future land management support and there is an important role for both AONB partnerships and national park authorities. They need to play their part in supporting farmers and other land managers to remain on the land, as well as making a key contribution to the priorities within the natural resources policy.  

If we are to address the environmental challenges we face, we must recognise that designated landscapes must do more to identify, safeguard and realise the benefits from the public goods they protect for all the people of Wales. And when I say, 'for all the people of Wales', I mean for all the people of Wales; I want to see a more diverse and wide-ranging cross-section of Welsh society feeling they have a stake in these nationally important landscapes and recognising the benefits we derive from them.

I have been able to see first-hand how this can happen. The Clwydian Range and Dee Valley AONB sits on the edge of my constituency and, with Welsh Government funding, they have supported the Actif Woods project. This partnership with the Alzheimer's Society and Macmillan has used woodland activities across Denbighshire, Flintshire and Wrexham to improve the physical, mental and social well-being of vulnerable people who wouldn't otherwise have had the opportunity to engage with this landscape. This is only one example of the wide range of opportunities that can be realised and the importance of our environment's contribution to our health and prosperity as a nation.

All parks and AONBs can and must do more to reach out beyond their traditional audience and realise their full potential. It is in this context I have considered the proposals in Marsden and 'Future Landscapes', and I have based my consideration on three principles. First, any proposals must not undermine the standard of protection given to these valued landscapes and should provide for greater parity for AONBs with national parks. Second, any change should reduce the administrative burden on authorities and partnerships, letting them focus energy and resources on delivery. Third, they should support continued development of effective collaboration.

The weight of comment triggered by the review has been on whether there should be a change to the statutory purposes of Wales’s designated landscapes. This has led to a significant debate on the place of the Sandford principle. The Sandford principle, which applies only in national parks, gives primacy to the conservation of natural beauty in the event there is a conflict with the promotion of the enjoyment of the parks' special qualities. The debate has focused on the continued relevance of this principle in the context of our legal framework within the Environment (Wales) Act 2016 and the principles for the sustainable management of natural resources.

There has been widespread support during the review for the Welsh ambition on the sustainable management of natural resources within the legislation that is recognised as world leading. Designated landscapes are best placed to take this forward in their areas. The designated landscapes have a diversity of natural resources. They also have considerable expertise, experience and extensive connections with communities of interest, including people who live and work within their boundaries. However, no consensus has emerged on whether it is necessary to change the purposes of parks or AONBs to achieve this.

Whilst I do not discount the symbolism of a new economic purpose, I have seen insufficient evidence that the existing purposes are a barrier to practical delivery. For that reason, and given the uncertain context, I am not prepared to pursue a change of this nature now without broader support. Therefore, I intend to retain the existing purposes of national parks, along with the Sandford principle and retain the existing purpose of AONB. This doesn't mean there is not a need for park authorities or AONB partnerships to pursue activity that supports the social and economic resilience of communities in their areas. They should, and there is no barrier to them doing so within their existing purpose. That said, there is a need to improve the connection between the existing purposes, including biodiversity conservation and the framework within the environment Act.To achieve this, I am minded to introduce legislation at a future opportunity to require the park authorities and AONBs to apply the principles of the sustainable management of natural resources, in particular when preparing their statutory management plans.

I also wish to strengthen the status and scrutiny of the management plans, requiring the plans to identify the special qualities. I believe this approach will align the parks and AONBs with our legislation here in Wales, and the international obligations from which it is drawn, in a way that brings them fully on board with the contemporary understanding of ecosystems and landscapes whilst recognising the enduring value of their original purpose. It will strengthen the importance of the special qualities in decision making across all activities in both national parks and AONBs.

With a difficult financial settlement to manage, I am sympathetic to the argument put forward by the park authorities to reduce their administration costs, and I intend to remove some of this burden insofar as is consistent with good governance. In addition, I will support their efforts to maximise their revenue from appropriate commercial activity. Our national parks can do more to reach out without compromising their principles.

Parity for AONBs with national parks broadly exists in terms of planning policy, but is lacking when it comes to status, profile and resourcing. Both Marsden and 'Future Landscapes' observe this. Whilst I acknowledge that flexibility of governance and partnerships in AONBs may be a strength, it is also a potential weakness in terms of the stewardship of these equally valuable landscapes. I intend to continue the discussion with AONBs on what can be done here. My intention in the next few months is to set out the detail on improving delivery and accountability in ways consistent with the environment Act and the national natural resources policy in Wales.

The process of the review has ingrained a new way of working between parks, areas of outstanding natural beauty and stakeholders, where they now share a much greater understanding of the challenges and priorities that they can help to address by working together, particularly bringing their collective experience to bear to halt the decline in nature, whilst recognising the need for economic resilience in our rural communities. 

Deputy Presiding Officer, I am committed to ensuring areas of outstanding natural beauty and national parks are valued for their natural beauty by our people, our communities and our country, and that our designated landscapes deliver rich ecosystems, vibrant and resilient communities, and opportunities for outdoor recreation for all of the people of Wales. Diolch yn fawr.

Can I thank the Minister for her statement this afternoon? I'm pleased to respond to this statement, as a Member whose constituency lies in the heart of the Pembrokeshire coast national park area. Wales's designated landscapes are beacons of natural beauty and conservation. They host millions of visitors, promote and protect our culture, help foster more cohesive communities, and play a significant role in creating a more healthy and resilient Wales, as outlined in the well-being of future generations Act. Therefore, it's crucial that their management and oversight is considered carefully, and that the Welsh Government moves forward in conjunction with these landscapes and the communities within them. 

Now, today's statement rightly recognises that designated landscapes have been in a state of review since 2013, and so it's important that the Welsh Government now brings forward plans to manage these landscapes. It is disappointing that the Welsh Government's statement only confirms that another statement will be published in a few months' time. Therefore, my first question is to ask the Minister: why is this process taking so long, and does the Minister agree with me that the constant reviewing of designated landscapes in recent years has done nothing to help them plan and co-ordinate their activities for the medium and longer term?

Of course, I am pleased that the Minister has at least confirmed for the time being that the Sandford principle will continue to be applied across all designated landscapes. The concern over the removal of the Sandford principle has been overwhelming from stakeholders, and so perhaps the Minister could clarify the permanency of the Sandford principle, so that those stakeholders can be confident that the Welsh Government won't revisit this matter in the near future.

Today's statement also refers to the option of introducing legislation at a future opportunity to require the designated landscapes to apply the principles of sustainable management. Therefore, perhaps in responding to this statement the Minister will confirm what timescales she is currently considering to introduce legislation, and whether she intends to bring forward primary legislation or enact other regulatory measures to address this issue. 

The Welsh Government's consultation last year also considered enabling governance arrangements to better reflect local circumstances, including a wide range of delivery models, such as partnerships and shared or delegated responsibilities. Of course, designated landscapes must engage with a level of community consultation and representation, and it's important that any new governance arrangements work for each individual area and are not just a one-size-fits-all approach. In light of the views expressed by stakeholders on this specific issue, perhaps the Minister could tell us what initial plans she has to facilitate this local engagement further, and perhaps she could confirm whether the Welsh Government intends to implement a system of directly elected national park authority members as a way of strengthening local democracy and accountability.

Today's statement also recognises the need to support the national park authorities to reduce their administration costs insofar as is consistent with good governance. Therefore, I would be grateful if the Minister could explain how she intends to go about reducing these costs, particularly if the Welsh Government is intending to bring forward legislation in the future, which could add more burdens on national park authorities. 

Now, the Marsden review also recommended actions in relation to the economies of national landscapes. For example, it recommended that national landscapes needed to better understand their local and regional economies, and especially their tourism economies, which is something I wholeheartedly agree with. In my own designated landscape area, the local tourism industry currently generates in excess of £570 million per year and underpins the economic viability of so many local services and businesses, which, in turn, are important to the sustainability and well-being of local communities. Indeed, that supply chain of business activity is an essential component of all designated landscapes, and so perhaps the Minister could tell us a bit more about her vision for the economies of designated landscapes, and also how her vision fits alongside other flagship Government policies and programmes.

I'm pleased that today's statement recognises the challenges that leaving the European Union could have for our designated landscapes and the opportunities it may present too. So, my final question, Deputy Presiding Officer is to ask what assessments have been made of the impact of Brexit on Wales's designated landscapes, and whether the Minister would be willing to share any new data with Members so we can better understand the Welsh Government's direction of travel.

Therefore, in closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, can I once again thank the Minister for her statement and reiterate that, moving forward, the Welsh Government must work with our designated landscapes and not simply seek to impose change for change's sake? The importance of our designated landscapes are critical to our health and well-being, our education and our economy, and I look forward to hearing more about the Welsh Government's vision for designated landscapes as these policies develop. Thank you.

Thank you for that wide range of questions. You started by recognising the national park within your own constituency of Pembrokeshire, and I was very pleased as, when I came into post, I committed to visit all the national parks, which is quite a hardship—to go on visits—but the first one was Pembrokeshire. When I was there, I saw the role that tourism played in that, and also the health and well-being, the Walkability Project, as well as the education and getting local schools in as well.

To answer your last question, perhaps, before your first, which was about the length of the process, I think a lot of that is related to actually where we find ourselves in terms of exiting the European Union. We know that there are going to be challenges, as well as opportunities, in terms of land management. What I'm keen to do now, in terms of this process, as I said today, is draw a line under it, and actually to provide stability for the national parks and the AONBs so we can work together to actually take that forward and actually enhance the nature we have at our fingertips.

In terms of the assessment on the impact on designated landscapes, as you can imagine, this is looking, in the whole, in terms of the impact of exiting the European Union on the entire environment portfolio and my colleague the Cabinet Secretary as well. It's a large piece of work, and designated landscapes forms part of this. I'm obviously more than happy to update this place and the Member in due course with any information and data we have in terms of the impact that exiting the European Union does have on our designated landscapes.

You're obviously right in terms of the importance of one size fits all and recognising the different unique qualities of each of the landscapes and making sure they work for the local community.

In terms of directly elected members of the board, at this point, as you said, there are financial pressures on the designated landscapes. I'd be minded not to bring in any proposals that would further impact on them financially, but we are, obviously, looking at how we can actually make sure in terms of actually—. I'm keen to make sure that there are designated landscapes for the whole of Wales and for different communities and, at the same time, to make sure that they are representative of those communities too, and that all boards of public life in Wales are representative of our diverse communities and our local communities as well.

I'd like to thank the Minister for her statement and say that many, I think, will welcome the fact that it appears now that there will be stability in this area from here on in. I note that it's five years since we started discussing the future of designated landscapes, and five years later we've ended up with nothing having changed. Not one of the main three recommendations of Terry Marsden being implemented. The hard work, I'm sure, that Dafydd Elis-Thomas did, I'm sure, looks more like an apprenticeship for a future member of the Government rather than anything that has led to change in this area. Because nothing has changed. Nothing has changed at all.

But, in turning to the content of the Minister's statement this afternoon, she, of course, has said that there will be a policy statement to follow. I hope that we can accept what's in her statement. She’s confirmed that the Sandford principle is to remain, and that the statutory principles of the national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty will remain the same. So, can we just confirm that? If that is the situation, it gives people the green light to move forward.

She has mentioned possible legislation to ensure that national parks and AONBs manage natural resources in a sustainable manner, through their statutory plans. I have no opposition to that at all, of course, but are we talking here about stand-alone legislation, as has been asked for by this Assembly in the past, or is she going to include that in broader local government legislation, because national parks are a type of local authority? So, is this going to be with her fellow Minister, Alun Davies?

It’s also important to seek a response from the Minister as to how all of this interweaves with the broader consultation on sustainable management of our natural resources, particularly on the issue of access. Access is very important in that consultation and, of course, access to designated landscapes is a crucial part of the national parks and the AONBs. So, how does access fit in there?

And I must note that, if we do want to see these landscapes performing as the Minister wishes to see—not only in terms of conservation, not only in terms of biodiversity, but also in terms of tourism and economic development—then we have to have appropriate resources to deliver that. The funding for the national parks this year, in the financial year that’s about to start, is the lowest it’s been since 2001. You can’t ask national parks to carry out this work of developing their areas unless you’re willing to invest in what they deliver. Of course, one of the solutions to this is that the national parks and the areas of outstanding natural beauty should work together more closely to get better value for money. But, you also have to invest. So, Minister, what are you going to do to ensure that the funding is going to be sufficient to implement your proposals?

And the final point that I want to ask about is: it’s clear, looking across Wales, that there are partnerships already in place that are already successful, that are working with private landowners, national parks and statutory bodies. The Black mountains land-use partnership in my own area springs to mind, but there are a number of others that Members could mention. So, how will you ensure that these partnerships can also prosper under the new regime that you set out this afternoon?

Thank you for your questions.

I just want to start by reiterating my gratitude for the work of Lord Dafydd Elis-Thomas on this. You did start by saying that, five years later—you know, it started, five years ago. It's, in fact, prior to me actually even being an Assembly Member. But, you said nothing has changed. While nothing has changed at a statutory level—[Interruption.] Yes. You know, you say that this is 'no change', but actually, arguably, we have seen change in terms of, actually, what we've seen happen in practice is that the national parks and the AONBs actually work together much more collaboratively and in partnership. I think that that is something that is going to be very very important going further.

My second external meeting as a Minister was with the national parks, and they said themselves to me then, and have reiterated that since, that they have seen the value of that collaborative and partnership working. So, hopefully, that's something we can continue, both in terms of sharing expertise, but actually trying to work with some of the challenges around funding as well.

I actually missed one of the responses to my colleagues sat over there, in terms of the Sandford principle. I can't read my own scribbles now. I would just like to place on the record here that we don't expect to revisit a review of the Sandford principle or revisit the statutory purposes, and offer stability to our national parks and to the AONBs.

What form the legislation could take: obviously, there are a number of options, as you said. That's what we will look at going forward over the next couple of months, whether these things could stand alone, or we could actually look at how it fits into area statements. We could look at even the plans for a Valleys landscape park.

In terms of the sustainable management of natural resources, you raised the issue of access. There's two parts to access, really: there's the literal, physical access to access our parks and AONBs, and then actually making them more accessible in general to more people across the communities of Wales. Both are equally as important. You'll be well aware that we've had an overwhelming number of responses to the sustainable management of natural resources consultation, over 16,000, and some of the responses I expect to be published by the end of this month. 

I can give a broad welcome to this statement. There is very little in it with which anybody could disagree. I'm certainly very pleased that the Minister has confirmed that the Sandford principle will be at the heart of Government policy in relation to national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty. After all, what's the point of designating areas as being of outstanding natural beauty, or as national parks, if not to give precedence to the principle of conservation? That was the founding principle upon which the initial legislation was introduced, with all-party support, and has been sustained even to this day.

But I would like to make a plea in this respect, which I've made before and will no doubt make again. Everybody appreciates that sometimes policy objectives from governments are in conflict with one another, and we can't preserve national parks forever against all change, but although I fully understand that the Government is committed to the principle of renewable energy, and that windfarms are a big part of that, I would make a plea for the principle of proportionality to be observed with the Sandford principle in mind, in as much as the contribution that wind can make to the Government's overall policy in the national parks is relatively small, but once a windfarm is built, for 25 years or more, it's there, a blot on the landscape. Only, I think, eccentrics could regard windmill farms as an enhancement of the natural landscape. So, if the contribution of windfarms to the achievement of the Government's overall policy objective in relation to renewables is relatively small, but there's damage done to the other policy that the Government's committed to—which is the preservation of beauty in the countryside, et cetera—then I would just hope that the Government would lean in favour of the latter rather than the former, in order to give practical expression to their commitment to the Sandford principle.

The second point that I would like to make is in relation to the opportunities that come from our leaving the European Union, referred to in the Bill, in particular in respect of improving land management and the resilience of our landscapes. In this respect I'd like to draw attention to the problems that have been created by the habitats directives in relation to the wilding of the hills of Wales, as a result of which we've seen a catastrophic increase in most predators and declines, sometimes towards extinction, in many vulnerable prey species. Leaving the EU does give us an opportunity, as the environment is obviously one of the devolved issues of greatest importance, and gives us powers here, as we hope, to take a very different approach to the one that has been adopted hitherto.

In particular, we've seen a rise in rank and unpalatable grasses infested with ticks, as a result of unburnt mature heather, which also becomes infested with heather beetles. Out-of-control bracken has also created sterile landscapes that are unsafe both for tourists and walkers, and are also vectors of Lyme disease. So, I hope that, as a result of the opportunities that are now presented to us, the Government will come forward with a plan to address these issues, and to recognise that the natural landscape that we want to see is not likely to come about without some human agency as well. The Government's policy in this respect is going to be of vital importance. Reforms to agricultural policy generally are inevitably going to focus upon the farmers' contribution to land management. We're moving away from blanket subsidies based on area, and they will in future be supplied for the beneficial things that farmers do in the countryside. So, I wonder if the Minister could make some statement on the wilding of the hills and the opportunities that are presented to us to improve land management in our wild areas.

I thank the Member for his broad welcome and his questions. He started by talking about the Sandford principle again, and the possibility of a policy objective in conflict. Well, we know the Sandford principle only applies when there is irreconcilable conflict between the existing purpose of national parks, but actually when we're looking at things in the whole, in the round, and our commitment to renewable energy, we also have our commitment to the sustainable management of natural resources, and that's the context in which we will look at this.

In terms of what he said about human agency, well, actually, a lot of our natural landscape has been influenced by humans over hundreds and thousands of years. So, in terms of looking to address the decline in biodiversity in our natural habitats, which of course is a central feature of our natural resources policy and our sustainable management of natural resources, as I said in the statement, it will be part of our policy direction going forward and how we best align the designated landscapes and our work there with our ambitions in terms of the sustainable management of our natural resources across the whole of Wales.

I also welcome the statement on designated landscapes by the Minister. I am very pleased that the Minister has confirmed unequivocally that all existing designated landscapes will be retained and their purpose of conserving and enhancing natural beauty will not be weakened. I also welcome the acknowledgement of the importance of areas of outstanding natural beauty and the national parks. I join with everyone else in welcoming the retention of the Sandford principle.

I have, however, two questions. What action is being taken to protect the areas of natural beauty and the national parks from invasive, non-native plants? And, in 2014, the Welsh Government considered merging three national parks into one. Will the Minister rule this out and confirm a commitment to local control and management of national parks?

May I thank the Member for his two questions and for his interest in this issue and his commitment? Because I know your constituency is very close to an area of outstanding natural beauty, just as is mine.

In terms of invasive species, actually very soon it is Invasive Species Week—next week, I believe—when we're looking at how—. Again, that's going to be part of actually how we take forward and align us with the environment Act and the sustainable management of natural resources, and actually not only sustain our biodiversity but actually we need to halt the decline. That's a fundamental part of that and part of the Welsh Government's commitment in that area. 

In terms of, you mentioned a merger of the three national parks—

It was considered in 2014.

Thank you for the help with that one. There are no plans to merge the national parks.

Minister, for a considerable length of time now in this Chamber, national parks have been central to the idea of sustainability, the vision of the Welsh Government and the Welsh Assembly as part of the constitution of this place. I'm pleased that the Sandford rule is being followed through.

Two things I wanted to ask you about. Firstly, in terms of the Brecon Beacons national park, in my time as an Assembly Member, we managed to get that geopark status some years back, to make sure that the western part of the park was open to tourism in the same way that the eastern part was. That was immensely successful. 

Secondly, the dark skies initiative, which I brought forward to this Chamber in a short debate, I think, after bumping into Cardiff astronomy club in front of the Senedd. Some years after that, we then achieved dark sky status for the national park, which drew more astronomers into that park from across Europe. Both of those initiatives were far from incompatible with sustainability and with the Sandford principle. In fact, the two went hand in hand. So, what are you going to do to make sure that, following on from this statement—much of which I agree with—you will be encouraging that type of tourism that does work hand in hand with the Sandford principle and does meet all of the Welsh Government's targets in terms of sustainability?

I never thought I'd say the words 'I absolutely agree with Nick Ramsay on this one.' The two initiatives you mentioned, I was actually in the Brecon Beacons national park just last week—that's the geopark, and also the dark sky status, which we know actually some of the AONBs also have as well. It's about actually looking at how the parks can reach out. There are massive opportunities there to align the tourism opportunities and eco-tourism and to attract new visitors to our parks, but at the same time actually making sure we sustain and manage them for the future.

So, that is definitely something—. We may not be changing the purpose of the national parks or the AONBs, but that does not mean—. In fact, they'll be actively encouraged, and we'll work with them, to make sure that we can actually look to identify and actually share best practice. One of the things, from the collaborative working and the partnership working we've seen as part of this process, is that there are opportunities to not only share resources, but also to learn from one another and to see actually what we can do. One of the things I've noticed when I've been visiting parks is the acknowledgement now of the need to evolve in terms of what our offer is, but at the same time staying true to those principles of protecting the natural beauty of our parks.

Thank you. Janet Finch-Saunders.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and, again, without sounding too repetitive, I'd like to thank you for your considerations. The one thing that's stuck in my mind on this is not only have you listened to Assembly Members, but you've listened to the genuine and general concerns out there. Of course, I have Snowdonia National Park within my constituency of Aberconwy, and there you've had conservation, but we've seen economic development as well. But, overall, the overarching principles of the concerns raised with me were about sustainability, conservation and those kinds of things going forward. 

Now, throughout these deliberations, a lot of representation was made by volunteers, members of the public and, indeed, the Snowdonia Society, who in themselves are a valuable resource. And I just wondered how you intend to move forward, working perhaps with our national parks and with these groups that really do give their time on a voluntary basis, and they are so knowledgeable, actually. The evidence that they provided to me was able to inform me to make representations on their behalf. So, I'd like to put that on record—the gratitude to the people who've written in, our societies that work really hard and want to work with Government, and want to work with us as AMs. It's how you will feed that in, and actually value and work with that valuable resource.  

Diolch. Thanks, and you spoke very eloquently there of the passion of people across Wales in terms of how much our national parks and our designated landscapes mean to all of us, and I think it's testament to that in this Chamber that nearly everybody that's got up and spoken has spoken about the designated landscape either near to their constituencies or that their constituencies are within, so we know what an amazing and cherished asset it is to all of us. 

You mention the Snowdonia Society. I've recently exchanged correspondence with the Alliance for Welsh Designated Landscapes, of which the Snowdonia Society are members, and obviously I look forward to working with them and others to take this forward. I will be, if I get the dates right, on Monday at Pen-y-Pass to launch the Snowdonia partnership there.   

David Melding.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I'm most grateful for your indulgence, and can I also broadly welcome the Minister's statement, particularly the way she's listened on the Sandford principle, and the more nuanced approach I think that we have heard compared to previous statements? Something that's not been mentioned this afternoon—and here I do think we need greater ambition, and we need to push the national parks in the areas of outstanding natural beauty—and that's around equality of access. These are wonderful environments. They belong to us all. We all pay for them in one way or another, and I do think there should be much greater access from groups that traditionally find that difficult. This can also link, I think, into the general management of land post Brexit, when we will be attaching whatever support we give to those that manage land more directly to public goods, and it does seem to me that these areas of public policy could come together quite elegantly.  

Can I thank the Member for your contribution, and I think the points you made are absolutely eloquently made, as usual, and absolutely spot on? Thank you for your broad welcome and recognition of the retention of the Sandford principle. Equality of access is—you're absolutely right, these national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty belong to all of us in Wales, and it's actually, like I said in the statement, making sure we reach out beyond perhaps who traditionally we might perceive might use our national parks. I think it's working with the parks and working in partnership, and learning from examples like the Walkability project, which is bringing people—not only it is bringing access to the parks for people that may not normally access them, but actually helping their health and well-being at the same time. I think linking in more with schools, as somebody who—. And actually making sure we work with the parks to link in with and build on the work they're doing in linking in with schools actually within the area, because I think what often you find is schools will come and visit from elsewhere, which is to be welcomed and to be encouraged, but making sure that schools that are in and on the periphery and boundaries of the national parks and the AONBs are fully part of that and fully opened up to enjoy the parks, and actually understand and see that it is actually for everybody, the parks are for everybody—. I think it's actually making them as accessible as possible, and as relevant as possible to all the communities and people of Wales.  

Thank you very much, Minister. Thank you.