8. Welsh Conservatives Debate: School Education

– in the Senedd on 11 December 2019.

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(Translated)

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, and amendment 2 in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 4:34, 11 December 2019

(Translated)

The next item is the Welsh Conservatives' debate on school education, and I call on Suzy Davies to move the motion.

(Translated)

Motion NDM7218 Darren Millar

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

1. Notes the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development’s 2018 PISA results.

2. Regrets that:

a) there has been no statistically significant improvement in Wales’s PISA scores in reading and maths since 2006;

b) Wales’s science scores are significantly worse than in 2006;

c) Wales is ranked bottom of the UK nations in reading, maths and science;

d) Wales is the only UK nation to score below the OECD average in all PISA measures.

3. Calls upon the Welsh Government to:

a) acknowledge its failure to improve education in Wales;

b) apologise to pupils, parents and schools for letting them down;

c) guarantee that additional resources arising from increased spending on schools by the UK Government will be invested on schools in Wales.

(Translated)

Motion moved.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative 4:35, 11 December 2019

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and may I wish everyone a merry Christmas in case you don't believe me after this debate?

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative

Can I thank you, Presiding Officer? And I'll move the motion, as on the papers today.

Now, it's interesting, isn't it, once again, to see from the Welsh Government amendment, how a party that's been in power for 20 years treats criticism made by the official opposition in this Assembly? The cybermen of Welsh politics continue to delete the truth if it gets in the way of what they want the people of Wales to know about their Government's record. So, I hope, in the course of this debate, that this Assembly will reject groupthink Wales and acknowledge what one-party politics did to our education system since 2006—the date we began to participate in the PISA results. Because whatever changes there have been under this education Minister, from a different party, the buck stops with successive Labour First Ministers.

Why has the Government deleted our entire motion? Why do you dismiss what our constituents have the right to know and ignore the questions we've been elected to ask? I would be prepared to recognise improvements on the 2015 figures, but the Government is entirely silent on the fact that these 2015 figures are amongst the direst we ever had. This debate has a much longer line of sight than that. 

An improvement in science, you say, not a significant improvement, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development—three points—but well done, teachers and pupils in getting that. But it is still a 17-point drop since 2006. Do you really expect us to welcome that? A two-point increase in reading and a four-point increase in maths since 2006 are, again, not significant, according to the OECD. Again, I have to say, their observation, not mine, although I think that recovery in maths since that all-time low in 2012 is worth a shout out to teachers. I think they did brilliantly on that. 

My personal observation is that you hope that these modest improvements this year disguise declines in the knowledge and skills identified in the PISA tests in the last 12 years—years when we've been governed by the Labour Party. And if our science scores weren't enough to leave that champagne bottle, or take it off the shelf, that fact that Wales's reading and maths scores are just back to where they started 12 years ago, again, is no reason to be popping corks. We should be soaring ahead in this last decade, not still behind the other UK nations. That's 12 years of our children and young people not just falling behind their peers in Scotland, Northern Ireland and England, but behind those Welsh children and young people who went before them. That's what we're asking the Government to apologise for. Your celebration of a recovery to a status quo, when that status quo was itself a cause for concern, is the perfect expression of mediocrity knowing nothing higher than itself, and so, we reject your amendment.

And I'm sorry to have to do it. I would like to welcome the reduction in the gap between our most disadvantaged learners and their peers and the improved results for higher achievers, because that suggests that some of those higher achievers come from disadvantaged backgrounds—children who, generally, are still over-represented in the lower performing cohorts. I think our plans for a looked-after children pupil premium would contribute to narrowing that gap as well as raising overall attainment. 

Even so, the pupil development grant is a significant and established lever in improving outcomes for our most disadvantaged pupils. Yet, our most disadvantaged children are still attaining lower scores in reading, which was this year's deep dive examination, than similar children in the other UK nations. And that gap widens until, for our least-deprived pupils, their reading score is 40 points behind their peers in England and 20 points behind the OECD average. There is another attainment gap here—a whopping one, Minister—and it cannot be ignored.

And before anyone wants to talk about them, OECD averages, let's remember that, overall, they themselves have not particularly improved this year. And they're not even an average of participating countries. They've never included the highest scorers in these tests such as the Chinese provinces and Singapore. As with funding per pupil, you can't claim improvement just because those around you are getting worse.

Now, I realise that some of you will want to paint this as criticisms of children, teachers and school leaders, but it is absolutely not. That there is improvement at all is, indeed, testament to pupils and teachers. These are the people who have the daily experience of school life and who have to deal with policy change, changing pedagogic, academic and well-being priorities, changes in parenting styles, lower per-pupil funding over many years, increasingly difficult funding settlements from councils, a drop in teacher numbers, and low resources. Even though 79 per cent of them had been on recent professional development courses, that teachers are managing to have any grasp, really, in this change of focus from knowledge acquisition to knowledge application, against this background is the one thing I think we can congratulate. It's a change of focus that all of us agree with in principle. We agree with part (a) of Plaid’s amendment, but we both share concerns about how this will work in practice, and until we see the detailed proposals for the new curriculum in January, our support has to remain one in principle. 

I agree with you, Minister. Something really does have to change. As Welsh Conservatives, we believe that teachers should be free to teach, unencumbered other than by a robust, credible and relevant framework of excellent governance and accountability. We want this to work, but, bearing in mind Scotland’s declining scores in science and maths in the Donaldson era, we also need to be wary. And we need to be wary as the GCSE results, further outcomes of reform designed to align better with PISA after all, were lower in that A* to C range, notwithstanding the growth in the A* scores. That seems reflected in the PISA findings too. What those PISA results also show is that better performance from our top achievers, which brings us closer to that OECD average, still doesn't get us quite over the line. Performance is no better than in 2006, and, of course, worse in science by those 17 points.

You may also remember me raising concerns that those who will find themselves in the next cohort of pupils taking PISA tests are already showing lower key stage 2 and key stage 3 attainment than at any time since 2007, so only a year after 2006. Schools will no longer be obliged to set targets for English or Welsh and maths. If these pupils are doing less well at this stage in their school journey than those who went on to do disappointingly in PISA tests in the last 12 years, this should be raising alarm bells now if these nascent signs of improvement are to come to anything.

And so to come to point 3 of our motion. Plaid likes to amend out any positive references to the UK Government, so we won't support an unnecessary amendment, but we are coming from pretty much the same place here. Minister, you will have seen the Children, Young People and Education Committee report on school funding. Securing more money in the budget for education is not the same as securing more money for schools. Both our motion and the Plaid amendment talk about money for schools. The PISA report talks about teachers' complaints of lack of resources. I think this has now come to a head, and you will need to tell us how, when you are not the Minister for local government, you will ensure that any additional money for schools in next month's budget actually gets to those schools.

I will understand you investing in early years—it's a Welsh Government priority and it's where essential groundwork, including investment in Welsh language acquisition, will need to take place. It's why, in part, Estonia is doing well, we understand. But there is £195 million coming into the Welsh block from a UK education commitment and £35 million for additional learning needs. Our schools need that swiftly and directly, and we will be looking at the January budget to see how you intend to get it to them. Otherwise, attracting new teachers into the profession will falter further. You'll remember we discussed those Education Workforce Council targets and their disconnect with the number of teachers qualifying in Wales this year. No-one wants to work in an institution with insufficient investment and question marks about where money they could have had is actually going. I have to say the one PISA finding I find quite difficult to understand was that schools in Wales have enough teachers, when we hear, in committee and in this Chamber, about teacher absence and dependence on ill-regulated supply agencies.

But there's a lot to be gleaned from this PISA report, and I hope that others here will pick up today, perhaps, on the detail behind those reading scores; a potentially persistent problem with teachers' evaluation of disciplinary issues; and the role of the digital screen in learning and well-being—the disappointing findings, actually, on well-being compared, perhaps, to what we heard from Estyn only a few months ago.

The next PISA results will be for scrutiny by the next Welsh Parliament. That target of 500 across the board seems as distant today as it would have looked in 2006. Yet, we need to reach it; we need to deliver on all those years we've gone on in this Chamber here about children fulfilling their potential, for themselves, for community cohesion, for improved economic prosperity. Because of that, average is never going to be good enough for our education.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 4:44, 11 December 2019

(Translated)

I have selected the two amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on the Minister for Education to move formally amendment 1.

(Translated)

Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans

Delete all after point 1 and replace with:

Notes that Wales is the only UK nation to improve in each domain.

Welcomes:

a) Wales’s best ever scores in reading and maths, and improvement in science;

b) a reduction in the gap between our most disadvantaged learners and their peers;

c) the improvement in performance of high performing students.

Believes the improvement in PISA scores is testament to the hard work of teachers and pupils across Wales.

(Translated)

Amendment 1 moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

I now call on Helen Mary Jones to move amendment 2, tabled in the name of Rhun ap Iorwerth.

(Translated)

Amendment 2—Rhun ap Iorwerth

Delete point 3 and replace with:

Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) continue along the path of revising the new curriculum and allowing it to take root as part of efforts to raise standards;

b) guarantee that the necessary resources are available to schools in order to improve working conditions for teachers and attract more new teachers to the profession.

(Translated)

Amendment 2 moved.

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 4:45, 11 December 2019

Diolch, Llywydd. I rise to contribute to this debate in place of my colleague Siân Gwenllian, who is of course our spokesperson and isn't present today.

I find myself—and we, as a group, find ourselves—somewhat between a rock and a hard place. I have sympathy with much of what Suzy Davies has said today. We share some of the concerns that the Conservatives are raising. In fact, perhaps had we heard Suzy Davies's contribution rather than just needing to read the motion, we might have been keener to support it. Because if you just read the motion as it stands, it doesn't acknowledge the good work that teachers have done. It asks for an apology that, you know, I've got some sympathy for again, but it's a bit of a cheap shot. Reading it, it looked to us that this was going to be another one of those slightly pointless debates that we've had here, which are really to do with things that are not happening in this place, but are happening somewhere else.

The other thing that I need to say about the Conservatives in this context is that they do need to take some responsibility for the issues relating to resourcing. I am not saying, Llywydd, that it is the fault of any Conservative Member sitting in this Chamber that this place—our national Government and our national Parliament—has had its resources drained away. It needs to be said to colleagues on the Labour benches that that began to happen under Gordon Brown's watch, so nobody's hands are completely clean here. But, I do think that it is a little bit rich for the Conservatives to attack the Welsh Government for not investing when there is no money to invest.

So, we can't accept the Conservative motion as it stands, but we did—[Interruption.] Yes, why not?

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 4:46, 11 December 2019

I'm very grateful to you for taking an intervention. I heard your references to wanting to congratulate the teaching profession for what it has achieved, but I don't see any Plaid amendment to that effect at all. So, I'm not sure why your criticism is so significant. And in terms of your comments on finances, you will know, as well as I do, that currently the Welsh Government is funded to the tune of £1.20 for every £1, which is plenty of cash, therefore, there is no excuse.

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 4:47, 11 December 2019

Darren, I'm sorry. I'm going to have to interrupt you because I'm running out of time. Perhaps you'd like to finish your point in intervening on one of your colleagues. I was referring to points made in the speech, not necessarily to the motion. But, Suzy did, in fact, separately make it clear that there are things to congratulate pupils and staff on what they've achieved. 

So, we can't support the Conservative motion unamended. But, I think it is correct to leave the factual bits in the first part of the motion where they are, because they are just facts. But, we certainly can't support the Government amendment either. I get tired of how often in this place, with my own portfolio hat on, I have to use the words 'self-congratulatory' and 'complacent', and I find myself having to do so in Siân Gwenllian's place today. I have heard the Minister say that there is more work to do, and we are not where we want to be. But, some acknowledgement in the amendment that there are problems would have made it easier for us to consider supporting it. So, as I said, Llywydd, between a rock and a hard place, and I'll turn briefly now to our amendment.

It is appropriate that we should be debating this today. It's very important. I'm grateful to the Conservatives for putting this on the agenda. Their description of the situation, though partial, is not inaccurate. But we do believe that, in principle, the direction that the Government is taking now with the new curriculum has the potential to be transformatory. If we can do this, if we can make it work, this could lead to a transformation in the opportunities that we offer children and young people in our education system. But, that will not happen unless it is sufficiently resourced.

We are asking the teaching profession—and I declare an interest as a former teacher myself, and half my brothers and sisters, and there are rather a lot of them, are teachers—. We are asking them to do an awful lot. We are asking them to change the way that they work radically. They need to be trained and supported to do that. I think that if it works, we will attract some of the brightest and best young people to work in our education system, because it will be a much better place to work in than something that is so driven by targets and scores and results.

I think that it's also worth saying that the PISA results, while important, are only a partial picture. They don't tell us everything that we need to know, and I don't have time today to talk about my concerns about young people's well-being. It is quite clear that if young people are miserable, they are not going to go on to be effective learners, and they are not going to go on to live the lives that I'm sure we all would want them to live. 

So I hope that the Minister will take our amendment—. I know she won't support our amendment, but I hope she'll take the message from our amendment home really, really clearly. We need to look forward now as well as looking back, and we need to acknowledge that, if we want this transformation to happen, it has to be resourced and it has to be supported. That's where Plaid Cymru stands. I'm sure that the Minister will—. I'll have sympathy with the Minister if she says she can't say much about what might be in the next budget because that budget isn't here yet, and we don't know what money's going to be there, but in principle we must have assurances that this radical transformation of our system is going to be properly resourced, because otherwise, if it isn't, it won't work. I urge this Chamber to support our amendment.

(Translated)

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Photo of Mohammad Asghar Mohammad Asghar Conservative 4:50, 11 December 2019

'It's not just that Wales has underperformed, it's seen its performance decline.'

These are not my words. These are the words of the head of education and skills at the OECD, speaking ahead of the publication of the latest set of PISA results. However much the Welsh Government seeks comfort from the slight improvement in the PISA scores, it is a fact that Wales still remains at the bottom of the UK PISA league.

Since 2006, when Wales first took part in the PISA test, there has been no statistically significant improvement in reading and maths, and Wales's scores in science are significantly worse. This lamentable performance is a direct result of Labour's continued underfunding of schools in Wales. School leaders and stakeholders have constantly claimed that chronic and insufficient funding has put schools under serious financial pressures. The NASUWT's latest figures estimate the funding gap between pupils in England and Wales is £645—a staggering figure. But this spending gap is replicated between local authorities in Wales thanks to Labour's flawed funding formula. The warning signs have been there for some time. Last year, the OECD produced a report in which they argued that the differences in the local funding models were causing concern about the unequal treatment of schools in similar circumstances. They went on to call on the Welsh Government to consider reviewing its school funding models if it wishes to realise its ambition for equity in education and students' well-being.

The Welsh Government has a long-standing commitment to protect schools funding in both the fourth and fifth Assembly terms, but school funding has not even kept pace with inflation. Since 2010, spending on schools has fallen by nearly 8 per cent in real terms. In the last budget, the education Minister said she was investing £100 million in raising school standards over the fifth Assembly term, but this funding was not allocated to schools' core funding, a decision criticised by the Children, Young People and Education Committee. It is time for an honest and open, mature debate about school budgets in Wales. We must recognise the frustration and dismay created by the severe funding crisis in Welsh schools, and the detrimental effect it is having on our young people. The consequences of this can be seen in rising class sizes, the decreasing number of sports staff and the cutting of many activities outside the compulsory curriculum. We need a system that funds school directly, one that gives greater spending control to teachers, parents and governors, directing more money to the classroom.

Deputy Presiding Officer, these PISA results have exposed the poverty of ambition at the heart of Labour's education strategy. Standards will not improve unless the Minister recognises the need to tackle the chronic underfunding of schools in Wales. We also need a fairer and more equitable division of resources. We need a new funding formula. It is accepted across the education sector that the current system is inadequate and change is desperately needed. A good education is vital to provide Welsh pupils with the best chances in life. I ask the Minister to take the action necessary to ensure that every child gets the highest quality education, as they deserve, in Wales. Thank you.

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 4:55, 11 December 2019

I say this as a proud comprehensive schoolboy: we can never be complacent about striving for ever-higher outcomes from our school and our college education, and we do need to see continued and accelerated improvement on the trajectory we're now seeing. But as we approach the season of cheer and good will, I will not be talking down the achievements of our students and our teachers and our governors and our educational consortia, our schools and colleges. In fact, I'm going to thank them and talk up their achievements over the past year, because the educational reforms that our Welsh Government are undertaking are focused squarely on teaching excellence, on equity and well-being for all our learners, on leadership and collective responsibilities.

And these reforms are indeed showing early signs of paying off, with overall GCSE performance improving again this year, and A-level results remaining at an historic high. So, let's have a look at some of these outcomes in detail, starting with the 2019 GCSE results. This summer's GCSE results marked the end of a significant period of GCSE reform undertaken in Wales. The last seven reformed GCSE subjects were introduced earlier this year, including history, computer science and Welsh second language. Overall, 28 reformed qualifications have been introduced since 2015, and we have to say, pupils and teachers have handled the introduction of these reformed qualifications well. These reformed qualifications are providing pupils with the right skills for the modern world, and they will play a vital role in raising standards. And the main figures for the summer 2019 GCSE results include an overall performance increase, with nearly 63 per cent of learners achieving A* to C over all—up 1.2 percentage points—despite the relative upheaval resulting from the qualification reform. The A* to A pass rate has remained stable at 18.4 per cent. There's been an increase in entries and numbers achieving top grades in science and maths, which are at the core of the PISA assessments. The performance in science continues to improve. The percentage of pupils gaining A* to A and A* to C grades in all individual sciences—including biology, chemistry and physics—has risen. The number of pupils who sat GCSE English literature has increased by nearly 23 per cent, with over 2,800 more pupils achieving and A* to C grades compared with 2018, 58.1 per cent of students achieved grade A* to C in GCSE maths numeracy, and 59 per cent achieved grade A* to C for GCSE maths. Now, I think that's something that the Member opposite will want to stand an applaud.

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative 4:57, 11 December 2019

What you've said is very credible, but I have a question for you: how many schools have you visited in your constituency in the last six weeks?

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour

In the last six weeks?

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour

Do you mean during the election campaign?

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour

I've visited every school in my constituency in the past year.

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative

Well, in the last six weeks—.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 4:58, 11 December 2019

Sorry, I can't have two people standing. You've asked your question. Will you answer or move on?

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour

This is the first year pupils have taken the new Welsh second language GCSE following the removal of the short-course option. It's more challenging, but the rise in entry numbers has resulted in a 12.5 per cent increase of learners attaining A* to C in the full-course qualification. This year, an additional 1,500 learners sat GCSE science exams, building on last year's significant uptake as well. And this continuing culture change is a consequence of the move away from blanket entries into vocational science qualifications at 16. Entry practices have stabilised this year, it's proved a positive response from schools to the revised early-entry policy announced in 2018. It means that fewer of our learners are being made to sit exams before they're ready, and it means less stress.

And if I turn briefly to the 2019 A-level results, this year's A-level results in Wales are at a historic high. A record number of students achieved A* and A grades, with Wales outperforming all English regions and Northern Ireland in the numbers achieving the very highest grade. Record-breaking results achieved through the hard work of students and teachers. And in contrast, by the way, the proportion of A-level entries awarded A grade and higher has fallen to the lowest for more than a decade in England and Northern Ireland—just by way of contrast.

But let's turn to the issue of raising school standards in my closing comments. This national mission of Welsh Government for education is seeking to raise standards, reduce the attainment gap and deliver an education system that is a source of national pride. Reforms already introduced, such as the literacy and numeracy framework, the new professional standards for teachers, the strengthened initial teacher training provision, the formative assessment arrangements and the establishment, critically, of a national academy for educational leadership, all of these are pointing in the right direction. We cannot ever be complacent, but I say, Deputy Presiding Officer, in closing, I wish the very best of the Christmas season to all of our students and our teachers and governors. Have a well deserved break and the very best for a happy and successful 2020, building on the steady progress we're making, close in partnership with a Welsh Government who are ambitious for educational outcomes and ambitious for our young people in Wales.

Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative 5:00, 11 December 2019

Can I begin by commending the work of the Children's Society? I think many of us received their briefing on the well-being scores. They are falling on a UK basis; this is not done on a home-nation basis. The OECD found that the UK was fortieth out of 44 of the countries taking part, and that was a poorer performance than when that was last measured, I think three years ago. So, I think that is something that we all need to reflect on. We want our children and young people to be as happy as possible in the school environment. It's such an important part of life after all. [Interruption.]

I've only just started, but I will give way.

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour 5:01, 11 December 2019

I just wanted to ask you whether you've also read the Samaritans' report, which is about the role that schools can play in preventing suicide, because I think that's an excellent report as well on the well-being agenda.

Photo of David Melding David Melding Conservative

I'd certainly agree that good, healthy well-being is a great defence against very poor mental health outcomes, which ultimately, in too many cases unfortunately, can lead to significant self-harm and even suicide. So, I take that point. 

But, the Children's Society does balance their briefing note, reminding us that, in Wales, the new curriculum will allow for one of the seven areas of learning and experience to focus on health and well-being. I do welcome this, because I think schooling is all about, as well as enabling our young people to get the best possible education for productive outcomes, making them healthy citizens, and we should never forget that.

One good thing about PISA, despite some of the difficulties we've had since 2006, is it makes us take the whole school community seriously—you can't sort of pick and choose and then just focus on the elite groups who inevitably in any education system will achieve some level of distinction. It's about those pupils that sometimes are left behind and not focused on. So, these measures are appropriate, and I'm pleased that we take them very, very seriously. 

I also think the Children's Society is right to call for some of these subjective well-being factors perhaps to be written into the Estyn inspection framework. I think it's important that young people are making friends and they have friendships at school—and if they're not, then that's sending a very poor signal—that they have a positive feeling about the area they live in and they can influence it, and to examine how they feel about the future. That's a key sign of well-being. 

I have to say, in these scores, we find in Wales 48 per cent sometimes felt sad, 44 per cent sometimes felt worried—that's above the OECD average, not a huge amount above, but above—but then 46 per cent sometimes felt miserable, and that was very considerably above the OECD average, I'm afraid.

Can I turn to care-experienced children? I think it's very important that, when we look at PISA, we remember that some of our pupils continue to achieve well below their potential and that their life experiences are having a significant impact on their chances of succeeding in later life and having a happy, productive adulthood. I think we have a real problem between key stage 2 and then what they're achieving at key stage 4, and I do welcome the fact that the Government has looked at the whole issue of educational attainment for this group. The way that they're slipping behind their peer group by the time they get to key stage 4, I think, is a real worry. Now, of course, a lot of children come into care as adolescents, and it's at that key stage 4 that there's a very dramatic impact sometimes, whereas at key stage 2, things are sometimes less obdurate and difficult to change or control. But I still think that is a real worry for us. 

Finally, can I just say, on literacy, I'm concerned to note that Welsh pupils are less likely to read books than pupils across the OECD and that many of them have negative attitudes towards reading. I think this is a cultural thing, as well as what's happening in our schools. We all have our part to play here in promoting literacy and the joy of reading. And that's something that we used to have so extensively in Welsh society. When you think of the miners' institutes, I think, on average—someone has done the calculation—that they had 3,000 volumes in their libraries, and then the whole library movement, obviously, is another thing we've discussed here.

But I do conclude by saying it's appropriate that we choose very robust and challenging measures, and that we should remember in terms of PISA. I do hope the Government will continue in terms of its membership of PISA and take these results seriously, and that we mark where there are some improvements and concede that. But, obviously, we want to get above the OECD average. That should be our aim. 

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative 5:06, 11 December 2019

If I can just remind Members that this motion actually does state, and regrets—. We, as Conservatives regret that there has been no statistically significant improvement in Wales's PISA scores in reading and maths since 2006, that Wales's science scores are significantly worse than in 2006, and that Wales is ranked at the bottom of the UK nations in reading, maths and science, and Wales is the only UK nation to score below the OECD average in all PISA measures. But also, it's a constructive motion. We call upon the Welsh Government to acknowledge its failure to improve education in Wales and we want to see a guarantee that additional resources arising from increased spending on schools by the UK Government will be invested in our schools in Wales. 

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative

Will the Member give way?

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative

She mentioned there hasn't been a statistically significant improvement since 2006. She then said that the scores were below the OECD average for 2019. Would she accept that they're not statistically significantly below the average in each of the three measures for the last year?

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative 5:07, 11 December 2019

We've had promises, in the years that I've been in this institution, that we would see an improvement, and we've not seen any improvement. That's my point. 

So, as is noted in the 'PISA 2018 Insights and Interpretations' report, over the past two decades, PISA has become the world's premier yardstick for comparing quality, equity and efficiency in learning outcomes across countries, and an influential force for education reform. This premier yardstick has seen Wales record the worst results of any nation in our United Kingdom. Science is at 488 points here; maths, 487; and reading, 483. These are all lower than England, Northern Ireland and Scotland. Now, even Welsh Government officials have admitted in their own technical briefing that none of the statistics represent any significant improvement since 2015. In fact, there has been no statistically significant improvement in Wales in PISA scores in maths and reading since 2006.

Now, I am particularly concerned about reading. We were 20 points behind the lowest scoring—Northern Ireland. Welsh pupils are less likely to read books than pupils across the OECD, and 44 per cent of pupils in Wales rarely or never read books. Now, a major contributor to this, of course, is the fundamental lack of funding and resources. Nearly half of Welsh headteachers considered that a lack of educational material, such as textbooks, a library and IT equipment were hindering their capacity to teach. Last month, I challenged the First Minister on the content of the report published by Great School Libraries: only 67 per cent of schools in Wales have access to a designated school library space. That, again, is less than England. And it is thought that only 9 per cent of schools in Wales have a library budget. Clearly, more funding is needed.

This is actually supported by NASUWT’s latest figures, which estimated the funding gap between England and Wales to be £645. This is outrageous considering that, for every £1 spent on education in England, £1.20 comes to the Welsh Government. I see people shaking their heads. Tomorrow is a general election, and I can tell you that people are sick and tired of this institution blaming the UK Government, blaming austerity. The money comes here. How you spend it is the critical factor.

The seriousness of the situation is clear when considering that Sibieta Economics of Education have estimated that in order to maintain expenditure on schools at the same real-terms level as 2016-17, the Welsh Government must spent an extra £120 million per year by 2021. Now, in comparison, our Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, is enabling an education budget bounce, as £1.24 billion in extra funding will be coming to Wales as a consequence of extra funding for education in England. The question we all ask as AMs in the Welsh Conservatives is: how will that money be spent here in Wales? That is the question.

Indeed, the Welsh Local Government Association have captured the situation beautifully—'It's a bit like trying to run a marathon with a lead weight tied around your neck. The funding is always the elephant in the room'. Their words, not mine. There are options you can consider, such as the reform to school funding. According to the Department for Education, the new arrangements will provide up to 6 per cent gains per pupil for underfunded schools by 2019-20.

To be clear, if we do not see major change, the 500 target for 2021 is likely to be missed. So, in response to the PISA results, I do believe that we need to see positive action, including a guarantee now today that all the extra money from the UK Government will be spent on our schools, and, two, that you will consider the funding methodology reform in England as a model going forward for change here in Wales. Thank you. 

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative 5:12, 11 December 2019

Can I apologise to the mover of the motion for missing the first few minutes of her speech? 

I sympathise with Helen Mary Jones describing her group as being between a rock and a hard place in dealing with this motion and amendments today. We looked at the Conservative motion and, in particular, point 3 b) requiring the Government to 

'apologise to pupils, parents and schools for letting them down'.

It certainly wasn't reaching out to find a consensus across the Chamber on this subject, but I understand that the day before the election. But, nonetheless, I thought the speech was very measured and thoughtful from Suzy, but there was a dichotomy with the motion, similarly in terms of the amendment. I'm not sure if Helen Mary was involved in moving the amendment, but her speech again diverged quite significantly from the amendment. She referred to the Government amendment as self-congratulatory and complacent, and I understand where she's coming from on that. Notwithstanding that, we thought the specifics of what it says are difficult to argue with. I think it is cherry-picking and putting their best foot forward, but what would you expect in general, let alone a day before election? It would certainly have been improved if it had included some of the suggestions that Helen Mary made.  

Nonetheless, we propose to support both the motion and the Government amendment. I'm not convinced to support the Plaid amendment, on which we'll abstain, because I don't know about the curriculum in terms of giving it such a following wind and agreement in advance; I think we'd like to keep our counsel on that. We're also not clear whether Plaid is suggesting that there should be direct funding of schools if there's going to be a Welsh Government guarantee. 

Similarly, I thought it was quite exciting to hear Oscar's contribution. I'm not sure whether he was intending to break new policy ground for the Conservatives the day before the general election, but it at least seemed to imply that there should be direct funding of schools. I wasn't clear whether he wanted Welsh Government to be doing that direct funding, or whether there might be a proposal for UK Government to step in and fund Welsh schools directly to ensure they get the amount of money he, and perhaps his group, state that they should. 

In the contribution we heard from Janet Finch-Saunders, while I always enjoy hearing from her, there was certainly a picking and choosing as to when to insist on statistical significance, and if we do want to use that concept, I suggest it should be used consistently, as opposed to cherry-picking for one's own convenience. 

As to the Minister, we spoke last week in some detail about the PISA results and I shan't reprise those comments, but what I will say is while I was relatively supportive of her and what the Government and schools had achieved, at least relevant to the previous set of results, when we spoke last week, I feel a little less charitable today, and that's partly because of the nature of the media coverage of the results. We spoke in the Chamber—there was one particular phrase she used, which was 'positive but not perfect', in promoting the results. And I felt to describe this as 'not perfect' understated how much of a problem we still have and how much more we need to improve. And it was that phrase that was clearly briefed out to all the media and was the main emphasis in terms of the coverage, and I felt that—

Photo of Mark Reckless Mark Reckless Conservative

No, no. Well, perhaps the Labour side of her Government have taken advantage and wanted to put their best foot forward in front of the election. But I felt that gave a distorted image to the results across the country. And I think some of what the Conservatives say today is a fair corrective to that.

I do know that the 'positive but not perfect' phrase has been picked up, to some degree, by The Guardian today, which says

'Not perfect but progressive' in arguing for a vote for Labour, notwithstanding the stink of antisemitism. So, I'm not sure if that drew on Welsh Government's own spin doctors from the previous week.

But, overall, I think we need to accept that these PISA results betoken a significant improvement compared to the last set of results, which were very poor. And rather than recognising that, we see the references in the Conservative motion to 2006, in order to give a comparison that favours their attack on Welsh Government, and then we see Welsh Government cherry-picking the best elements in their motion without recognising the areas that really should be spelled out as needing improvement. The speeches have been a bit better than the motions, but we're doing our best to try and bring a little consensus and dispassionate analysis to these results. And, in particular, PISA do a fantastic job in presenting this premier yardstick, and I think it's very good that we do have these comparisons of the different nations in the UK with nations around the world. Thank you.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 5:17, 11 December 2019

Thank you. Can I now call the Minister for Education, Kirsty Williams?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm grateful for the opportunity to respond to the points that have been made in the debate today. I think it was Oscar that used the phrase 'frustration and dismay'. Well, I can tell him that I am frustrated and I'm dismayed that he and some of his colleagues continue to quote incorrect data and seem scarily unaware of what is going on in terms of the national mission of education reform. And, of course, I say that with the honourable exception of Mr Melding, who, as always, gave a very thoughtful and intellectually coherent response to the debate.

It's disappointing—[Interruption.] It is disappointing that, after the publication of the PISA results last week, this debate has been tabled that does not recognise the efforts and progress that have been made by our pupils and teachers. Now, for too long, we have all wished for progress in PISA, as it shines a spotlight on the education system of Wales for all to see. And last week, I did indeed say, Mark Reckless, that the results were positive but not perfect. If only the media outlets would carry my line every week I'd be happy. But you also know that I said very clearly last week that there is more for us to do. Having had over a week to reflect on the results, surely—surely—we can recognise that, for the first time, we are performing at the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development average in all three domains: in reading, in science, in mathematics. And I'm not asking the Senedd to take my word for it. It is the main conclusion of the independent National Foundation for Educational Research. They were, and are, the national centre for PISA in each UK nation.

For the first time, all our raw scores are up in all the areas that were tested, and we're among a very small set of countries across the world that have done this. And we have reached our best ever reading and maths scores.

Can I take this point that Suzy Davies raised about OECD averages? Let me be absolutely clear—let me give you the example of reading. The OECD average for reading is a score of 487. This is the average for the OECD countries, i.e. 36 nation states. The average for reading for all participants is actually 455, and that would include the very high-performing non-OECD countries. So, one has to be clear about this issue around averages. As I said last week, we have achieved this at the same time as closing the attainment gap. Now, I think I heard Suzy Davies refer to the Welsh Conservatives' desire to introduce a looked-after children pupil premium. Well, I have to tell the Member that the LAC pupil premium already exists. Let me give you an example of how the EAS region spends their LAC pupil premium. They have a specific member of staff in each of the secondary schools in the EAS region to address the issues of learning and teaching for those specific children. So, it's not new to suggest that this is what you would do, because we are already doing it.

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 5:20, 11 December 2019

We've also extended our pupil development grant to education other than at school provision and those children who are not in a regular school setting. Of course, as David Melding rightly pointed out, we have much, much more to do for this particularly vulnerable group of learners, whose educational achievements, whether within PISA or outside of PISA, continue to be not where they should be. I am hoping that, in the new year, I will be in a position to announce new approaches, learning from best practice from elsewhere, about how we can enhance not just the LAC PDG but also new provision to try and make a difference to those particular children.

Now, the important thing for me is that disadvantage gap in Wales was significantly smaller than the OECD countries. Pupils in Wales are also reported to be relatively more able to overcome the disadvantage of their background than the average for the OECD countries. But let's be absolutely clear: pupils eligible for free school meals scored 34 points below pupils who are not eligible for free school meals on average. Now, that is a closing of the gap by some seven points within the overall improvement in performance, so it is progress. But we will need to do even better, and that is why I remain committed to expanding the PDG grant, providing even more support, as I said, for looked-after children, for our most vulnerable children, in our attempt to raise standards for all. We are also delivering Wales's first-ever action plan for more able and talented pupils, and we are expanding our hugely successful Seren programme. And, finally, we are prioritising leadership within our schools and education system.

As I've always said, and as is made clear in our national mission action plan, PISA is an important signal to parents, to employers and investors. But it is also much more than a benchmarking exercise for the Welsh Government. It provides a valuable source of data and analysis that, together with other sources of data and research, provide us with the evidence base to make key improvements that will bear fruit, and we have seen that with the improvements in mathematics over two cycles of PISA.

We have also acknowledged that we have seen an improved performance at a higher level in this round: increases in reading, where we now have 7 per cent of high performers as opposed to 3 per cent in the last round. We've also increased the proportion in our other two domains—a similar gain for maths, and it's a bit less for science. Now, I set the challenge to increase these percentages three years ago, and I am pleased that we have seen progress. But I am also absolutely clear we are not yet at the OECD average for high performers. So, again, this is another group of students where there is still more progress to be made. And we will delve into this rich data source that this current round has provided, and we will look again at what improvements can be made from what the data tells us and from ongoing collaboration with other countries. So, for instance, on the issue of reading, which has rightly occupied people's minds today, we will be looking specifically at what steps we can take with regard to reading. We have a strong working relationship with the education department in the Republic of Ireland, who have done very well in their reading scores, and we will want to be able to continue to look at what more we can do. But I cannot say strongly enough: we will stick to the course that we have set out for education in Wales, and we are holding fast to the principles of our national mission to raise standards, to tackle that attainment gap, and to ensure that we have a system that is a source of national pride and enjoys public confidence.

Now, last week's results showed success against those objectives, and we have proved that improvement is possible, that we can have it within our system to make progress. There is more to do, but I'm confident, because our teachers have embraced our national mission, that, together, we are heading in the right direction. This morning, I was speaking to our next generation of teachers at Trinity St David in Swansea. They were telling me that they are proud, very proud, to be entering the profession at this exciting time, and a pivotal time for education in Wales. And I have to say, Deputy Presiding Officer, I will pay more heed to their enthusiasm, their ambition and their 'can-do' spirit than some of the cynicism that has been on display in the Parliament this afternoon.

In conclusion, Deputy Presiding Officer, I want to take this opportunity, once again, to thank our teachers and students. These results are a testament to their hard work, their effort and their commitment. I know that they share my ambition that the next set of PISA results will show further progress, and they're dedicated and committed to making that happen. And I want them to be assured that I, as the Minister, and this Welsh Government value their efforts, their experience and their expertise, and we value the opportunity to work with them, because, when we get it right for our children's education, we'll be getting it right for the future of our nation.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 5:25, 11 December 2019

Thank you. Can I call on Darren Millar to reply to this debate?

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 5:26, 11 December 2019

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I thank everybody who's contributed to what I believe is an important debate, where we all share the ambition for our education system here in Wales to improve? If I can start on those issues where we share common ground with the Government, we too want to congratulate those teachers who have helped pupils in our schools achieve success in their education. We want that success to be even more apparent in the PISA score improvements in the future, but there is no denying that there are significant improvements that we still need to make.

It's very clear from the opening speech from Suzy Davies, which I think captured this very well, that we've been celebrating, effectively, last week, being average, being the middle of the pack, as far as the OECD PISA scores are concerned—slightly below, although perhaps not significantly statistically below, the average. But, nevertheless, that average, of course, has moved down since the previous PISA results, so it's not really something we should be aiming to be. We ought to be aiming to be well above that average, and, of course, the one nation that is significantly above that average in the UK is England, where there have been significant educational reforms that have borne a great deal of success. And that's why I agree with Helen Mary Jones's statement earlier on where she said that—and we've got, yet again, another self-congratulatory and complacent amendment that has been tabled by the Government, and it is disappointing that they haven't really recognised the seriousness in terms of where we are.

Reference was made—in fact, he waxed lyrical about, Huw Irranca-Davies did—to the reforms that have been taking place in Wales. Now, we've supported some of those reforms, but we're a little bit concerned, actually, about the pace of improvement that we've seen here in Wales, and we're also concerned that many of those reforms appear to be mirroring, to a large extent, although not exclusively, the reforms that have taken place in Scotland. Of course, we know that, in Scotland, they have suffered significant deterioration in terms of the education system there, when measured against the PISA outputs and scores.

Now, I recognise, as was pointed out during the debate, that PISA is just one of those things that you look at when you're considering the quality of your education system. You've got to triangulate it with other pieces of data and information, and this point was made by a number of people in the debate. That's why I think it's important to consider the GCSE results, and, yes, there were some aspects of improvement in those results last year, but there were also some aspects that didn't improve, and there was some falling back in some areas. So, I think it is a bit of a mixed bag, really, in terms of the GCSE position. And, of course, David Melding made reference to the fact that, at some of the other key stages, we've also seen a rather significant deterioration, which I think doesn't necessarily bode well for the future.

Reference was also made, of course, to the fact that the OECD report does not just look at the scores in reading, maths and science, but it also looks at other things that might be having a bearing on the education system. Some of those findings, which were read to us, about reading and other things, are a significant concern. But some of the other things that weren't referred to that were included in that report were things like the substance misuse engagement in Wales versus other parts of the UK. You're more than twice as likely to have taken alcohol or drugs amongst that PISA cohort when compared to the situation in England, and it's also a higher rate than in Scotland. I think that's a cause for serious concern, actually, and I think that we need to take some action to address it.

I was very pleased to hear David Melding quite rightly refer to the fact that we need to be considering well-being and looked-after children in our future plans, and I will commend the Government for actually recognising that this is something that the new curriculum needs to focus some more on, particularly given those other statistics, which also seem to indicate that we've got a bigger problem here than in other parts of the UK.

Finally, if I may, I want to turn to resources, which are clearly hindering the capacity of our teachers to do their job. It's not just me saying that. It's not just the Welsh Conservatives saying that. It's the OECD report itself, and those teachers who were sampled. So, 41 per cent of the teachers in Wales who took part in the survey said that they did not have the resources to be able to do their job—that it was hindering their capacity. That compares to 22 per cent of those polled in England, a massive difference. So, I think to say that resources are not a big issue is very much a concern.

Of course, Mohammad Asghar pointed out the significant funding gap that's been estimated by the NASUWT as £640 per year per pupil—a massive gap. We know that it's not funds that you don't have; you have £1.20 for every £1 that's given per pupil for their education in England. And yet, we know from your own figures, which were released by the Finance Minister just a few weeks ago, in an amendment to our debate, that you are only spending £1.06 of that £1.20 at the moment. I would like to ask you—and if you want to intervene, I would be very happy to take an intervention—where's the rest of the cash gone?

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative

Where is the rest of the cash going? We believe—we firmly believe—that that should be invested in our schools, and that's why I want to encourage people to support this motion today, as unamended. We've got an extra £1.24 billion coming to Wales to support our education system. We believe that every penny of that should go to support our schools.  

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 5:32, 11 December 2019

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Therefore, we defer voting on this item until voting time. 

(Translated)

Voting deferred until voting time.