And the first group of amendments relates to the offence of the use of wild animals in travelling circuses. Amendment 1 is the lead amendment in the group, and I call on Llyr Gruffydd to move and speak to the lead amendment and the other amendments in the group—Llyr Gruffydd.

Amendment 1 (Llyr Gruffydd) moved.

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and thank you for the opportunity to move the two Plaid Cymru amendments in this group. At the moment, of course, the Bill only prohibits the use of wild animals in performing or being exhibited for entertainment in a travelling circus environment. For me, that definition is far too narrow, and Members, of course, will have received messages from organisations such as the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals and Animal Defenders International expressing the same view and encouraging you to support the Plaid Cymru amendments to that end.

Under the legislation, a wild animal can still legally be taken on tour with a travelling circus and trained for performance in Wales— perhaps, of course, for later exhibition in a country without a ban. Now, this would still subject those animals to many of the issues that compromise welfare and make itinerant circus life so difficult for them. The legislation presently fails to address these realities or the many challenges beyond just performance and exhibition that make travelling circus life a grim reality for the animals, including, of course, transportation and forced training.

This amendment isn't about deprivation of property, it's about preventing welfare problems associated with the transient nature of travelling circuses. Welfare issues connected with the use of wild animals in travelling circuses extend far beyond performance and exhibition, and legislation should deal with the confinement, stressful transportation, forced training and abnormal social groupings that remain a reality for these animals. Rejecting these amendments would mean, of course, that we will still allow wild animals to travel and even train with travelling circuses, and, of course, we'll just therefore be prohibiting their performance or exhibition. 

A big focus of this Bill has been ending the spectacle of wild animals touring in travelling circuses, and for this opportunity to be missed, I believe, would be significant. Now, the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee has already explored how the absence of a complete ban would be unlikely to meet the public's expectations. So, our first amendment would bring Wales closer to more robust bans that we find in places such as the Republic of Ireland, where, of course, the legislation states that a person shall not be allowed to use a wild animal in a circus, and that any reference to a circus includes a reference to any place where animals used in a circus are kept or are trained. 

Coming on to our second amendment, a ban on the use of wild animals in circuses in Wales, I'm sure we'd all agree, is long overdue, but, despite it being on the agenda for many, many years here in Wales, we will, of course, be now the final nation in Great Britain to introduce a ban. Discussions within the Assembly, as it was, go back to at least 2006, with the tabling of a statement of opinion that hoped that the Animal Welfare Act 2006 may empower Wales to act. It took us nine years—in 2015, then—for the Welsh Government to say that it believed that there is no place for the use of wild animals in circuses, but of course we are still waiting. And in England, in the meantime, the Wild Animals in Circuses Act 2019 came into force in January of this year, while in Scotland, of course, a ban has been in force since 2018.

However, as drafted, Wales's proposed ban, of course, won't come into force until 1 December this year, and I know circumstances clearly have conspired to make it unlikely now that we will see any travelling circuses maybe visiting Wales this summer—although who knows, later on in the autumn, potentially, what will happen—but, of course, it would mean then that Wales would still be the only location where a circus performance would, albeit temporarily, remain a legal reality for wild animals. 

Now, I'm impatient for a ban to be implemented, although I do understand that the goalposts have moved since this particular amendment was tabled earlier this year, and I also appreciate, of course, that the second amendment very much depends on the first amendment being passed, but I would urge Members to support both our amendments to this Bill. And just to say as well, Llywydd, I won't be contributing to the debate on the next group of amendments, but Plaid Cymru will be supporting all of the amendments tabled to this Bill today. Diolch.

I welcome the opportunity to move the amendment in my name in this group, amendment 3. We'll also be supporting the first amendment Plaid Cymru have tabled today, but not supporting the second amendment that Plaid have, and I'll go on to explain why that's the case. I could be really Churchillian and try and appeal to the Government benches to support us in our amendments before the Chamber today, but I seem to remember from committee stage that we had very little luck. But I do think that they are worth putting down at Stage 3, in particular the ability to make sure that training exercises undertaken by circus animals could not be turned into a fee-paying source of income for circuses. Because, at the moment, there is a loophole in the Act, which was evidenced in information given to us at the committee stage, Stage 1, by various organisations that said, 'Yes, this piece of legislation would actually stop animals being displayed in the ring for entertainment purposes', but there was a risk that animals could still travel with that circus into Wales and ultimately go through a training routine outside of the ring that could generate fee income for the circus—for owners and circus exhibitors.

As Llyr, the Plaid Cymru spokesperson said, this has been tossed around now since 2006, with the first statement of opinion. Surely it makes sense that, if we're going to put a piece of legislation through the Welsh Parliament, we try and curtail any loopholes that have been pointed out to us in the expert evidence that we, in committee, took. And so I do hope that Members will be able to support amendment 3 in this particular grouping, because it doesn't seek to transform the Bill, it seeks to enhance the Bill and close any loopholes that might, in future, offer an income stream for circus owners when they come into Wales with the animals that they might bring with them. It seems a perfectly logical exercise in doing this, and I do hope that the Government will desist from opposing this particular amendment, seeing as it's based on the evidence that the committee took.

We will not be supporting the second amendment that Plaid Cymru have put down, again because the evidence clearly highlighted that there did need to be a transition stage, from when the legislation came into force, for the circus owners then to find suitable homes and accommodation for these animals, these wild animals, that, ultimately, need to have their welfare considerations taken into account. And, again, that was evidenced at Stage 1. I can sympathise with Llyr's making the point that it would be better to try and do it as quickly as possible, but the reality is that we are talking about living animals and they do have welfare considerations that, when this legislation is enacted, it does need to be giving breathing space to allow suitable accommodation and future homes for them. And that's why we will not be supporting that amendment. Therefore, I move amendment 3 and call on the Welsh Parliament to support amendment 3, standing in my name, in this group. 

This is the second time that Members have tabled amendments to extend the scope of the offence. They did the same at Stage 2, when they were rejected by the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee. 

I'd really like to begin by making it very clear that the purpose of this Bill is to address ethical concerns by banning the use of wild animals in travelling circuses in Wales. There is other legislation in place to protect the welfare of animals. This Bill has a very narrow purpose and it seeks to make it an offence for an operator of a travelling circus to use or cause or permit another person to use a wild animal in a travelling circus. A wild animal is used if the animal performs or if it's exhibited. If circuses choose to keep and train their wild animals and use them in a different way, that's their prerogative, provided they do so within the law.

The circuses, in giving evidence to the committee, have already said that they intend to keep using their wild animals, albeit not as part of the travelling circus. And, in order to do this, they would, presumably, need to train them. Any decision on the future of their wild animals is likely to have already been made, given the ban in England, which came into force in January. One would assume that it would be uneconomic for circuses to continue to take their wild animals with them when they tour if they cannot use them, although that would be a decision for them.

The proposed amendments amount to de facto bans, either on travelling circuses keeping wild animals—which would constitute the complete deprivation of property—or the training of wild animals, and this would risk infringing the right to the peaceful enjoyment of possessions, which is protected by article 1 of protocol 1 to the European Convention on Human Rights. Restricting how an animal is used in a circus environment, as we're trying to do here, is less of an interference than depriving an owner of it entirely, or restricting how they use wild animals outside of the circus environment.

I do understand the Member's desire to see a ban implemented as soon as is practicable and using wild animals in travelling circuses purely for our entertainment can no longer be justified, and that's why I brought forward this legislation. The Bill, should it be successful, is scheduled to receive Royal Assent in mid August at the earliest, and come into force on 1 December. The coming into force date was raised by the Member during the debate on the general principles of the Bill, and I said I would consider an earlier coming into force date, as I did when I gave evidence to the committee last year. However, the committee, in its Stage 1 report, in acknowledging the concerns around the timing of the ban and the calls to introduce the ban earlier, reported, and I quote:

'Time allowed for legislative scrutiny of the Bill would provide limited scope to bring forward the coming into force date. Given this, and the practical implications of introducing the ban during touring season, we are satisfied that the coming into force date is reasonable and appropriate.'

The reason for the December coming into force date, I'm sure Members will remember, is both the travelling circuses that have used wild animals will be expected to have completed touring and returned to their winter quarters by this time. But as Llyr referred to, due to the COVID-19 restrictions, these circuses have not toured at all this year, and it's too early to say when this type of activity will be permitted. But, as you referred to, the circuses may be able to tour later this year, and if they are, it's possible they may decide not to tour again in Wales with their wild animals, given the activity is now prohibited in England, where both circuses are based.

Implementing a ban during the touring season, which could be any time up until the end of November, would put the circuses in a difficult and unreasonable position of having to comply with the provisions of the Bill whilst they were on tour with their wild animals. We've looked into the coming into force date very carefully, and there is little to be gained from bringing it forward by what would likely be a few weeks.

So, Llywydd, I don't believe any of these amendments are necessary. The purpose of the Bill is to address ethical concerns—[Interruption.] Yes.

Thank you. I wasn't sure whether interventions were permitted.

I don't know either.

Well, since you've pointed it out now, no, they're not.

No, they're not. Okay. The purpose of the Bill—

Very quickly, because I'm a generous kind.

I just want to seek a point of clarification on the amendment that I put in about training. You did say, in your opening remarks, that circus owners have indicated that they will use the animals in a different way. You said that in your opening remarks, Minister. So surely amendment 3, which seeks to, obviously, stop that happening in training exercises, should the amendment that is accepted by the Government to, in your words, then stop the owners using the animals in a different way.

So, I think I've clarified that in my earlier answer, Llywydd.

So, the purpose of the Bill is to address ethical concerns about how wild animals are used in travelling circuses. There's other legislation already in place to protect the welfare of animals, including the welfare of animals during transport. So, I urge Members to reject the amendments. Diolch.

Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Llywydd. Well, thank you for the contributions to this discussion around this first group of amendments. I'm slightly saddened, Minister, by you sort of grudgingly accepting that wild animals could tour with circuses in Wales in the autumn, when actually we could legislate now, today, to stop that from happening.

And you referred to the 'peaceful enjoyment of possessions', to quote your words, as a human right. Even when it contravenes animal welfare? I think there are serious questions, really, that need to be asked around that. I just feel it's quite perverse that we're legislating here to protect the welfare of wild animals in travelling circuses and then choosing to define that in such a narrow way that we're actually missing a real opportunity here to extend it beyond just performance and exhibition.

You mentioned the fact that there are other pieces of legislation in place that protect the welfare of animals. I understand that that is the case, yes, but we're getting a clear message from a number of animal welfare organisations that I've referred to, telling us that they support these amendments. So, there must be something that isn't right in the current provisions that are out there. So, I am disappointed that you're not accepting these amendments, and I'm sure the wider public, as well, will be quite perplexed by this and will share my disappointment.

So, I would urge Members not to waste this opportunity to make as much of a difference as we can in this legislation, and I would ask you to support both Plaid Cymru amendments this afternoon.

The question is that amendment 1 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Therefore, we will move to a vote immediately, and in accordance with Standing Order 34.14D, there will be another break of five minutes before we vote on this amendment and the next two amendments. So, we will break now for five minutes.

Plenary was suspended at 19:24.

The Senedd reconvened at 19:30, with the Llywydd in the Chair.

[Inaudible.] [Laughter.] In favour 25, no abstentions, 29 against, and therefore the amendment is not agreed.

Amendment 1 - Stage 3 Wild Animals in Circuses (Wales) Bill: For: 25, Against: 29, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 3 is the next amendment.

Is it being moved?

Amendment 3 (Andrew R.T. Davies) moved.

Move.

Moved by Andrew R.T. Davies.

The question is that amendment 3 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Therefore, we move to a vote on amendment 3. Open the vote. [Inaudible.]—one Member having not been able to vote. The result of the vote on amendment 3 is that there were 25 in favour, no abstentions, and 29 against. Therefore, amendment 3 is not agreed.

Amendment 3 - Stage 3 Wild Animals in Circuses (Wales) Bill : For: 25, Against: 29, Abstain: 0

Amendment has been rejected

Amendment 2. Llyr Gruffydd.

Amendment 2 (Llyr Gruffydd) moved.

Move.

Amendment 2 is moved. The question is that amendment 2 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Therefore, we move to a vote on amendment 2. Open the vote. Close the vote, and, again, one Member was unable to vote. The result of the vote is that there were 12 in favour, one abstention, and 41 against. Therefore, amendment 2 is not agreed.

Amendment 2 - Stage 3 Wild Animals in Circuses (Wales) Bill : For: 12, Against: 41, Abstain: 1

Amendment has been rejected